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General Re: Slander of Dasam Granth at Sikh Philosophy Network

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by spnadmin, Jul 2, 2009.

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  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    To members of {url not allowed}
    Forum member Singh2 has started a thread at {url not allowed} entitled Slander of Dasam Granth at SPN. On the thread Singh2 and other members of sikhawareness have made numerous public allegations that various SPN members, moderators and mentors have slandered Sri Dasam Granth, and that SPN admin has aided and abetted the slander. It is unfortunate that sikhawareness has allowed such negative propaganda at the behest of one member without confirming these allegations independently. SPN has not acted in a similar way toward any other Internet forum. Despite his provocations, SPN has accommodated Singh2 and allowed him to share his views. We at SPN feel such misleading of the panth is unacceptable and serves to further divide us. We also believe that the allegations are categorically untrue. We invite sikhwareness members to identify and list specific examples of slander (the sentence or phrase) found on SPN, naming the member, moderator or mentor who uttered the slander. You must also clearly state that you are responding to our invitation as a sikhwareness.com member. You will be required to provide the thread url and post number where the slander occurred. Slander is defined as words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another person. No multiple identities! Respectfully, the Admin at SPN


    To members of {url not allowed}
    Forum member Inder Singh has started a thread at {url not allowed} entitled Slander of Dasam Granth at SPN. On the thread Inder Singh and other members of sikhsangat have made numerous public allegations that various SPN members, moderators and mentors have slandered Sri Dasam Granth, and that SPN admin has aided and abetted the slander. It is unfortunate that sikhsangat has allowed such negative propaganda at the behest of one member without confirming these allegations independently. SPN has not acted in a similar way toward any other Internet forum. Despite his provocations, SPN has accommodated Inder Singh and allowed him to share his views. We at SPN feel such misleading of the panth is unacceptable and serves to further divide us. We also believe that the allegations are categorically untrue. We invite sikhsangat members to identify and list specific examples of slander (the sentence or phrase) found on SPN, naming the member, moderator or mentor who uttered the slander. You must also clearly state that you are responding to our invitation as a {url not allowed} member. You will be required to provide the thread url and post number where the slander occurred. Slander is defined as words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another person. No multiple identities! Respectfully, the Admin at SPN

    We welcome your views :yes: Daas

    This thread will be closed on July 3 2009 at midnight, -5 GMT

    Note dated November 27, 2009. Both {url not allowed} and {url not allowed} apparently have removed the thread Slander of Dasam Granth at SPN. We noticed a few weeks ago that this thread was missing. The thread can no longer be located on either site. Narayanjot Kaur
     
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  3. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Hmm.

    Where are all the "Burn Her" Crew? The one's that think we are Kala Afghana supporters and the otherones that take swipes from the sidelines? :welcome:
     
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  4. dalsingh

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    Hopefully we can put this to rest quickly and get back to good old fashioned debate on all matters Sikh.

    Not to worry -- only 36 hours left: Thanks, daas:yes:
     
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  5. Inder singh

    Inder singh
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    Tony ji

    On July 3, 2008 in the thread Dasam granth history, Mentor SPN Giani Jarnail singh wrote

    Slander Of Dasam Bani On Spn - The Voice of Sikh Youth


    1 Letter of Bhai mani singh To mata sundri on Dasam granth compositons is fake

    2) He wrote dasam granth has pornography in it ans has sex acts and tells us how to drink, take bhang etc

    Now dasam garnth is an accepted scripture among sikhs. how can an aged man acting as mentor of SPN is allowed to make such ridiculous statements. I responded to him by giving refrences that what he writes is false assumption and has no historical backing.

    In the same thread one Pk70 also castigates dasam granth sahib.

    THis is just tip of iceberg. I will post more. i have posted what i have seen there. It will all be proved to you.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tony aka Dass ji

    in the same thread Aman singh owner of SPN reinforces view of Jarnail singh by citing this from somewhere and no source is given. THis is a very clever trick to back giani ji.

    Post of aman is given below

    By Aman singh of SPN

    1. Not all that is contained in Dasam Granth is Gurbaani, but there is authentic Baani like Jaap Sahib etc.

    2. Dasam Granth was not compiled by the Guru's, but it was supposedly done by Bhai Mani Singh much later - as pointed out by Kesar Singh Chibber. However kesar Singh also writes that a 'Sikh' cursed Bhai Sahib, that his 'band band' would be cut, yet he would remain steadfast in his sikhi.

    This seems to be a crude attempt to undermine the sikhi of a great Sikh like Bhai Mani Singh. Please analyse, this story. See how the story attempts to say that the bemisaal shahdat of Bhai Mani Singh was due to a 'curse' by a 'Sikh', not because he was a great Sikh.

    Further there is neither a concept of Boon or curse in sikhi. All powers are in the hand of almighty not with anyone. Further a true Sikh would never curse, Bhai Sahib, who himself being a tru sikhi would never do any unsikhi or manmati acticity.

    Kesar Singh Chiber also writes that he is writing the accounts on hearsay... something which poses a question mark on the authenticity of his accounts.

    He wrote his Bansavalinama when he was 72 years old !!!

    3. Even if we assume for a moment that Bachittar Natak and CharitroPakhyan are Gurbaani, we cannot accord them the same status as Guru Granth Sahib, that is the status of our Guru. If we were to do that, tommorrow, somone may question why we canot have Prakash of Bhai Gurdas Baani, for that is Panth Pravnit.

    4. The fact, dear Veers is to sit down, think cooly and arrive at a conclusion for the benefit of Sikhs all over. I wonder what stops the SGPC from having a debate within the 2 factions to resolve the issue.


    The above is a typical kala afghana sect writing.Yet you say you are being wrongly quoted.




    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    T
    ony ji
    On Jan 17,2008 dasam granth and its history thread


    Another member Bhagat singh writes Dasam granth bas piece of tarsh

    The post parts are given below


    There are parts of Dasam Granth that can be made into an adult video. The language used is very common, so when you read it, it sounds fine if you dont understand BUT if you understand it, you can't help but have a laugh at that piece of trash and wonder why people say Guru Gobind Singh would write such a thing!\

    The in the same thread Bhagat singh writes

    I don't know why... maybe...its because it's got porn in it! -----
    dasam granth cannot be written by Guru Gobind Singh JI. Stop calling him the writer of this nonsensical piece of trash.
    Khanda and Kirpan were present before Guru Gobind Singh.
    Dont push it, now you will say Guru Gobind Singh worshipped Chandi! NONSENSE!----

    10th Master and Amrit have nothing to do with that trash! Do YOU know anything about the concept of Khalsa??

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  6. Inder singh

    Inder singh
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    There was no parkash of Dasam granth at Dyala bhai ka village as alleged by Giani Jarnail singh

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/9093-video-on-dasam-granth.html



    3. Its these authentic Banis that were deliberately MIXED in with the spuriosu 18 granths or so..to make up one huge garnth to EQUAL the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..and Paraksh it at EQUAL PLAV+CE beside Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to challenge the GURU. Thsi nefarious scheme was played out in Dyala Bhai ka Pind on Nov 13th by the taksal/Rss/groups. ( Even in this "natak- Drama Bazee".. they IGNORED hsitorical importance of DINA KANGGAR as the Historic Village where Guru ji wrote the ZAFARNAMAH..Epistle of Victory.and instead chose a nearby pind ?? why ?? to play around with Sikh history..and celebtrate FATEH DIWAS of ZAFARNAMA away from its historical grounds ???

    =================================================================

    Giani Jarnail singh supporting kala afghana and Jogindedr singh contrary to his claims

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/20546-dasam-granth-cynics-now-attacking-guru.html

    Same high handed techniques ( Death Threats/ridicule/ridiculous false propoganda etc etc ) used against SPOKESMAN. its Editor Joginder Singh...GS.Kala Afghana.....Prof Darshan Singh... Hari Yukta...Harbhajan Singh..Reporters of Spokesman...and NOW latest victim of these is.... HS Dilgeer...in fact anyone who writes in Spokesman is fair game ?? Such will not work simply because this is the IT Age....GYAAN is so widespread..HANERA-DARKNESS is out..except in some darkened and closed

    ======================================================

    Foolow up post by adm9inistrator aad ji in support of giani ji

    This is a poor paraphrase of an eloquent statement by an illiterate chief of an aboriginal tribe in Peru. He said this about controversy: Without questions there is only closure. In Nature there is no closure. So let there always be questions between brother and brother.

    Maybe we have to rise to a level that is sophisticated in order to forget that we are brothers and fail to understand that to ask questions is natural between brothers (and sisters).
     
  7. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Inder Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for posting for the first time before the thread closed. We were waiting for you and other mates so they could give you a hand in the search as it is NOT a research. I hope you get the difference. Please invite other members and mates of yours from SA and SS to give you a hand in finding what you are looking for. It is an open invitation.

    Now let us get to what you have posted.

    All you have mentioned above and claim it as Slander to Dasam Granth is false and full of lies. You are like a good tiger who can never change his stripes.

    As mentioned in my other post to you, disagreements are NOT slander. I thought you knew that. You are just one angry person when people disagree with you. I will urge you to open your eyes and ears and try to understand what others are saying. A person with talibanic blindfolds can not see anything.

    There is pornography in DG. Do you disagree? You are the one posted the pornographic posts from DG here. Why don't you dig those and repost them and then show the person you have claimed to say that DG has pornography.

    Only by discussing we can learn, not by imposing our will. The Muslims tried that, The Hindus tried that, even the Brits tried that and you know the History.


    So, please bring your open arms so that we can all be ready to learn from each other rather than your anger,rancor,hatred and blindfolds.


    Regards

    Tejwant Singh

    But keep on digging. :)
     
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  8. Randip Singh

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    No slander here.

    Just an opinion

    Again no Slander here, just a comment.

    Not even support for Kala Afghana or Joginder Singh.

    In any case this is not Slandering Dasam Granth

    No Slander here again

    VERDICT

    There is no evidence of any slander here whatsoever of the Dasam Granth.

    Definition of Slander:

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slander

    1. Law Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
    2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
     
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  9. Randip Singh

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    No Slander here just comment

    No slander here. Just comment.
    Bhaghat Singh is not an Admin. You said admins slandered Dasam Granth.

    VERDICT

    There is no evidence of any slander here whatsoever of the Dasam Granth.

    Definition of Slander:

    slander - definition of slander by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    1. Law Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
    2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
     
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  10. Inder singh

    Inder singh
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    Giani ji on dasam granth

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/23200-kala-afghana-v-s-darshan-singh.html

    imho the entire drama is about the "Bachittar Natak"..Strange Drama !!
    First Kala Afghana exposed this as fake and not written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji..
    Then Ragi Darshan Singh Ji also came forward to actively PROTEST this book being placed on Par with our GURU..
    Thus those who "hate" kala Afghana must also hate Ragi....because they both are saying the same thing...Bachittar Natak aka dsm granth is NOT by Guru Ji and should NOT be parkash at Hazoor Sahib where the 3ooth Gurta Gadhi Diws of GURU is being celebrated..Gurta was given to ONLY Guru Granth Sahib JI and no other boook/granth has nay equal significance especially at Hazoor Sahib where the 1708 decision by GUur Ji is being celebrated.
    Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23200 (Kala Afghana V/S Darshan Singh Ragi)
    Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23200 (Kala Afghana V/S Darshan Singh Ragi)
    Thus it would be sweet music to these peopel...IF...the Ragi and KA were to fight !!
    An enemy divided is an enemy dead....
    BUT imho this is NOT about to happen any time soon....the KA wrote BOOKS..and the RAGI is an ORATOR...BOTH complement each other !!! Their MESSAGE is the SAME.."SAY NO TO DSM GRANTH".

    Gyani Js

    ===============================================================
    You embrace Dasam Granth instead by undermining,disrepescting and second guessing Guru Gobind Singh ji. It needs nothing more than common sense to see that if Guru Gobind Singh ji wanted a granth by his name then he would not have added his father's Guru Teg Bahadur's Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and hence would have rendered it useless.

    It is appalling that you and your ilk do not accept Guru Gobind Singh's decision. So now you know that you and people who think the way you do are unshamedly heretic, which is sad.

    ==================================================================
    Giani ji on Dasam granth

    Praising those who wrote against dasam granth and wee excommunicated

    SO if..I say IF..a Bhag Singh Ambala came along and questioned the DSM Granth with ONE Book.....Bhai Gurbakhs Singh Kala Afghana came along and wrote TEN Books..many others also wrote not only BOOKS but also offered a REWARD of TEN LAKH Rupees to anyoen who cna prove that the writer of dsm Granth is Guur Gobind Singh Ji....SO WHAT ?? IF these people are all FRAUDS..telling lies..have no basis..what are we AFRAID OF ?? Why go to extrereme knee jerk reactions like excommunicate them, villify them, take a microscope and digg durt on their personal lives to discredit them....and form so called Human Rights Organsiations that DECIDE on DSm Granth ( Human Rights !! not Scripture Rights ??) set up Orgs and Coms and Nets on the Internet etc etc to "prove" something that NEEDS NO PROOF ?? Why not let the FALSEHOOD FALL ON ITS OWN ??

    ============================================================

    Again Giani ji calls rehatnamsa and hukam nama as fake'

    Fake Laetters of Bhai mani Singh..Fake rehitnamahs, Hukmanmahs, etc etc and all...has been going on for CENTURIES...

    people all over can read the TRUTH..in www.Rozana spokesman.com
    =================================================================



    Tejwant calling others Hindus for respecting DG

    Inder Singh ji,

    I want to thank you for showing your true colors and your faith in Hinduism which is not a bad thing. Lots of Hindus are also members of this Sikh forum.

    ===============================================================

    Tejwant calling believers in dasam bani as Hindutva

    When these things about DG being the work of Guru Gobind Singh keep on cropping up by some whose agenda is nothing but deviate us from our only GURU- Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and add Hindutva into Sikhi.




    ===========================================================

    Khalsa fauj on dasam granth


    I am a Sikh of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You can bring your Guru which is Dasam Granth, to live debate. We can read some chariters to the sangat.

    NOTE Same thread for these
     
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  11. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Inder ji

    I am curious why these statements conform to the ordinary definition of slander.

    Statements uttered deliberately to harm the reputation of another.
     
  12. The Khalsa Fauj

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    How is that slander of Dasam Granth? Just because I didnt' call Dasam Granth my Guru? That means you accept Dasam Granth as your Guru? Say what?
     
  13. Admin Singh

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    Inder Singh ji and all your supporters, everybody is entitled to his/her opinions on any subject. Its a Talibanis trait to suppress one way of thinking to promote another. If you feel insecure dealing with the realities of real life situations then you are most welcome to leave the SPN and continue spreading your lies over and over again. We are least bothered.

    SPN primarily respects the freedom of speech and expression of each and everybody and that includes you, gyani ji, tejwant ji, myself and all others... if anybody reflects on the same spectrum in a particular way that does not make it a engraving on a stone and others would start making chidish bragging, hue and cry over the matter... Sikhi is not such a weak link that it needs the support of falliable humans like you and me.
    Truth pervails under all circumstances. :) Let us allow the truth to reveal itself in our lives...

    Everybody here is exloring all the possiblities and nobody has the right to label a person for his personal way of thinking as slandering. Even the other persons, who have opposing point of view to yous, can label you as slandering as you do not adhere to their way of thinking. Even they can cheaply go to other platform and spread hatred against you. But, they choose to learn and evolve. Choice is ours. :)

    SPN allowed you and your supporters to speak your heart out in favour of Sri DG and SPN allowed all others who do not agree to compiliations of Sri DG. This is called a fair play. This is all SPN is about. The posts you have posted above are just a point of view of an individual and nothing more. SPN is toally neutral on this issue of DG and it will remains like this no matter how boxed minded people make a hue and cry over this.

    We are all here to learn discover and evolve... You are always most welcome to share your knowledge on Gurbani and Gurmat Vichar, if any. We have no time to your baseless accusitions and spreading them shamelessly all over the forums. Stop indulging in mud slinging and turf wars... we ain't interested in that. We are least bothered. :yes:

    If you can not digest and enjoy the freedom of expression and speech atomosphere around here then you are most welcome to walk out... and return to where you belong... you should be thankful that even after so much turmoil casued by your false propaganda, we are allowing you to freely navigate over here and pick and choose posts. Very smart. :happy:

    Rest later...


     
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  14. Inder singh

    Inder singh
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    aad ji

    Read those posts and then take a stand. It takes time to read and comprerhend those.
    Then stand is yours whether you want to go ahead and allow your mentors and members to address Dasam granth sahib in vulgar/abusive language or not.

    Your representative posted the message on sikhsangat and sikhawareness that allegation are untrue.Instaed of talikng in parameters of lawyer's langauge try to see the issue in real perspective as Dasam granth is a central scripture in sikhism after Our Guru eternal SGGS ji.

    Whether you want to tackle this issue keeping in mind the sentiments of vast majority of sikhs who respect Dasam granth as bani of tenth master or want to take this issue in dictionary meanings of words , it is upto you as you manage this site. Good luck.
     
  15. Tejwant Singh

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    Inder Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    You write:

    Inder ji,

    And I stand by my words. For me you act like a Hindu and disrespect our 10th Guru by claiming that he wrote pornography. How dare you do that and call yourself a Sikh?

    It is YOU who is slandering our Dasam Pita. Shame on you. Only a Hindu minded person would claim that these kind of porno things were written by our 10th Guru.

    So I urge you to STOP slandering Guru Gobind Singh ji, who sacrificed his Dad, his four sons and gave us Khalsa Panth. Learn to respect our GURU who also gave us SGGS our ONLY GURU. No one else. Nothing else.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  16. Inder singh

    Inder singh
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    One of your members calls Dasam Granth as trash and pornographic. You call it a freedom of speech.

    Those who bring this to your notice are having talibam trait. Continue doing that. This was just in response to your post on Sikhsangat.Thanks
     
  17. Inder singh

    Inder singh
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    Aman singh wrote

    SPN can stop its members from using vulgar epithets like trash , pornographic for this. What will you do tomorrow if some insane person starts disputing SGGS. will you allow that to be freedom of speech?

    everything is not posted yet. Only 30 percent is gone through. Seeing your attitude i do not intend to do that.
     
  18. Inder singh

    Inder singh
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    You live in India. Disrespecting religious scriptures either physically or in writing and hurting religious sentiments of a community is criminal activity in India. That is why a case was slapped on missionary Mohinder Singh Josh and Jagmohan singh for calling Dasam Granth as K Kavita.
     
  19. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    If you really want me to take a stand then i will. Stay tuned for the evening programming. Make sure you are seated comfortably with your feet on the floor, arms, relaxed, gazing toward your third eye, eys half closed. Because your mind will not be stilled. I will meet you in the Debate Forum. To quote a famous movie actor, Bring your lunch!
     
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  20. Inder singh

    Inder singh
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    Aad ji

    I have acted in response to the mailer on two forums. I have nothing more to discuss on this issue. Whether you take stand or do not take stand , it is your concern. I am not going in details of that.

    Thanks
     
  21. Tejwant Singh

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    Inder Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    You lied once again below. It has become your habit to lie. A liar is a slanderer of Sikhi, no one else.

    You write:


    Inder ji,

    Those are my words and I stand by them and a liar like you have attributed them to Gyani ji, which again shows that you are a pathological liar. Shame on you, once again. I hope you will apologise to Gyani ji but you are too arrogant to do that, one more NOT a Sikhi trait.

    A Liar can not call himself a Sikh. That is why you slander our 10th Guru. As I said before, STOP SLANDERING SIKHI FOR THE SAKE OF THE PANTH.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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