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Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Archived_Member16, Dec 28, 2011.
This is so ridiculous. Dasam Guru sahib has bestowed Guruship on Sri Guru Granth Sahib. SGGS is already an image of Guru Gobind Singh.
BTW, the day Sikhs start calling a human being GURU, that would be the end of Sikhi.
Probably sowing the seeds for "Mother of all Dehras". Pretty deep levels of mischievousness and arrogance as the Sikh Psyche continues to be mellowed down with "Waheguru Waheguru" simran nectar.
Pretty shameful and sad. Let us see what Akal Takhat does about this!
Sat Sri Akal.
This is nothing new .Many times earlier such claims have been propagated.
This is a time for introspection to understand what is wrong ,how and where.
We should come out of conventional mode of understanding SGGS .
There is great need to educate people for the right messages of SGGS.
Prakash.S.Bagga ji can you please elaborate by contrasting the following,
Conventional Mode of understanding Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and how it relates to this and causes what problems
Un-conventional Mode of understanding that you suggest and how it will work to eliminate or stop such problems from occurring
Please provide some details and specific examples not the Grammar, Joti or (Gur ... Guroo) stuff.
Sat Sri Akal.
<IFRAME style="POSITION: absolute; WIDTH: 10px; HEIGHT: 10px; TOP: -9999em" id=twttrHubFrame tabIndex=0 src="http://platform.twitter.com/widgets/hub.1324331373.html" frameBorder=0 allowTransparency scrolling=no></IFRAME>This is the biggest attention seeking shosha that "Giani" Ikbal Singh Ji has ever exploded.I have been going over this sau sakhi in the British Library, there is no such thing as claimed by him on any of the pages within the book.He has done this to perhaps attract personal fame and attention as his personality has exhibited in the past an inferiority complex, when no attention is paid to him.I call upon him to prove where what he claims is said, where and what page of the book?
A number books, including most chapters of the alledged dasam granth and 'sau sakhi' owe their origins to the bhats, from Agra and other unknown writers from the vedic period.These bhats were not the ones who Guru Nanak Ji had vichar with.These were commercial bhats, some of whom were envious of the court of Guru Gobind Singh, who they met as he passed them on way to Deccan.It is alos so ironic that for a 21st century religion and thought, Sikhs are still calmouring to the dasam granth without rationality, when all Bhai Mani Singh did was collect general reading literature from various sources.Then as if to twist the good fate of the Sikh religion someone binded all that into a book and attributed it to Guru Goibind Singh Ji, and Sikhs like fools are still arguing over it, when again and again it has been proven much of the literature,93% has absolutely NOTHING to do with Guru Gobind Singh ji or his stated philosophy.But the sadh factions to keep their iron grip over the Sikh minds and souls continue tp peddle these ill stories of sex and abuse as part of the Guru's message!Just how simple minded and easily led the community is often , is unbelievable.
In the sau sakhi it also says that Guru Gobind Singh Jis' eldest sahibzada baba Ajit Singh Ji was married to a Tara Bhai, of Agra!That she gave birth to a son!!!
This is in total conflict with Sikh faith and values recognised in Sikh history, as then the title of SARBANSDANI bestowed upon Guru Gobind Singh JI becomes null and void, as not the entire family becomes sacrificed!Only an anri Sikh mind can think as such.Today sadly we have many such nerds.
If we believe the SAU Sakhi that Ikbal Singh has so michieviously used to support his claim [shosha]then, the so called son of Tara Bhai,who is then the so called daughter in law of Guru Gobind Singh was not the entire part of the family balidaan that Guru Gobind Singh ji has given to the Sikh panth.That would disqualify Guru JI from being a sarbansdani!Is this even thinkable?
Such "theory"also expresses the preposterous peak of lies and distortion of Sikh Guru Sahibaan as the wedding is alledgedly supposed to have taken place after the battle of Anandpur Sahib; at Agra, as he was on his way to the Decaan!No where else in the recorded annals of Sikhs references is such recorded.
Finally I shoot this theory down with the historically established and non controversial fact of Sikh history- THE AMRITPAAN OF ANANDPUR SAHIB in 1699 when the entire[ personal]family of Guru Gobind Singh Ji took amrit.
The question arises , HOW CAN Baba Ajit Singh JI marry a "TARA BHAI"who it clearly appears from the name had NOT taken amrit?She was NOT a Kaur.This sounds very much like the Niranakari poet Alam's imagination of the wild idea that Guru Gobind Singh Ji lived till in 1934 under an assumed name; that was very much floating around a few ago.
Surely if Guru Gobind Singh was to make a "reappearance"in later years, it goes totally against his bani, as miracles have no place with a GURU who asked for boon to be granted from GOD;a Guru who would have been able to perform miracles to rule over his advesaries and spare the sacrifices and torture of his own father, family and thousands of Singhs.
Finally, this melodramtic claim now clashes with Guru Gobind Singh Ji clear message, that clearly says, after he has departed from the worldly life, ONLY and only Guru GRanth sahib should be the GURU!Now surely,if he is alledgedly has "written that he will come back in 2012 - to 20 18, " would he have finalised the Sikh religion with Guru maniyo Granth?
Having the greatest ability of super natural power,Guru Gobind Singh Ji does not exhibit any and speaks with the severe humility ;-
Jo hum Ko pramesher uchre
te sabh narak kund me par he
Mo ko das tawan ka jano
ya main bhed n ranch pshano
main ho'n param purakh ka dasa
dekhan ayao jagat tamasha
He goes on with humilty, and effectivly sweetly, expressing in the most of humblest manners He says
Inn hi ki kirpa ke saje'n hai'n
nahi mo so gareeb karor parre
He was a rabbi noor, the Uplifter of the universe,the power of the suppressed people- poeple who had been suppressed for over 1000 years, still says he is but the servant of the GOD almighty.If someone salutes him with humility, he returns that salutation far more grandly when he says about Waheguru,h
hamesul salaam hai,samtul kalam hai.
Based upon the above notes, of His Majesty Guru Gobind Singh JI, does one beleive it would have been impossible for him to have said, that He will return in such a such year and continue to beleive in the AAd Granth until then ?
I dont know why "Giani" Ikbal Singh has exploded such wild and uncivilised idea and relied on such unsupported mythical stories and a book that is certainly proven to be not that of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and certainly widely believed to have been commonly adulturated by the British colonialists with the help of uneducated and traitorous Sikhs[that we also see today who have NO iota of intelligence in the affairs of Sikh faith except to bark like dogs and issue threats].
Ikbal Singh is known to be highly ignorant of Sikhs affairs, and one that ran off when confronted by the Sikhs in Canada to asnwer charges against him;and also a highly recognised follower of the RSS, is again trying perhaps distract the Sikh unity and intention to free Gurduara Gian Godri, from the clutches of nazi hindu government of Uttranchal Pradesh where he is said to be from originally.He has been instrumental in also torpedoeing the Unity of the Akal Takhat,and Sikh Maryada although he is not the only culprit in that arena, along with others.
In my opinion the sau sakhi lying in the British Museum is of no significant historical use apart for general reading.
ਤਖਤ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਪਟਨਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ‘ਜਥੇਦਾਰ'ਗਿ:ਇਕਬਾਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਵਲੋ ਦਸਮ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੇ 1216 ਸੰਨ ਨੂੰ ਦੁਬਾਰਾ ਜਨਮ ਧਾਰਨ ਕਰਨ ਦੇ ਦਿਤੇ ਬਿਆਨ ਨੂੰ ਝੂਠ ਦਾ ਪੁਲੰਦਾ,ਗੁੰਮਰਾਹਕੁੰਨ ਤੇ ਸ਼ਰਾਰਤ ਭਰਪੂਰ ਬਿਆਨਦਿਆਂ ਤਖਤ ਸ਼ੀ ਦਮਦਮਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਸਾਬਕਾ ਮੁੱਖ ਸੇਵਾਦਾਰ ਗਿ:ਕੇਵਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਨੇ ਕਿਹਾ ਕਿ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਦਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਿਤੇ ਗਿਆ ਹੀ ਨਹੀ ਤਾਂ ਆਵੇਗਾ ਕਿੱਥੋ?ਉਨਾਂ ਕਿਹਾ ਸਾਡਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਦਾ ਅੰਗ ਸੰਗ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਗੇੜ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀ ਆਉਂਦਾ।ਉਨਾਂ ਕਿਹਾ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਇਕਬਾਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਦਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਕੋਈ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ਜੋ ਜਨਮ ਲੈ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ।ਗਿ:ਕੇਵਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਨੇ ਕਿਹਾ ਕਿ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਵੀ ਕਈ ਤਰਾ ਦੇ ਵਿਵਾਦਮਈ ਬਿਆਨ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਗਿ:ਇਕਬਾਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਵਲੋ ਇਹ ਸ਼ਰਾਰਤ ਭਰਪੂਰ ਬਿਆਨ ਦਾਗਣ ਪਿਛੇ ਕਿਹੜੀ ਘਟੀਆ ਸਾਜਿਸ਼ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਪਤਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਜਰੂਰ ਲਗਾਉਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ।
Here is what I think;
People like him have no confidence and self respect. They pull these kind of stunts to make themselves feel important. Lets look on the bright side; he is old and not going to stay around for much longer to carry on making these ridiculous statements. :happysingh:
SUCH donkeys are born every second...its a pipe dream to think thta once one is gone..we are free of them...there are hundreds more waiting to take his place....just see how the totally incompetent jathedars come one after the other..each successor WORSE than the one earlier one...Ranjit Singh..Pooran Singh..vedanti..gurcharan singh....each new one navehn chaand charraunn vaala hai...vaadh chaploos, vaadh yes man..vaddh everything bad..
Gyani Iqbal Singh never lets the humor column run dry ....lol
If this can be considerd humour of his from time to time , then the saddhs and congress party has a longer and stronger line of humour running far more effectively, that should keep Sikhs keep laughing with the unending and undry humour,they receive; sadly I see no Sikhs laughing.
I call that a dry and morally ande ethically a bankrupt attempt at trying, "humour" with Sikhs.
Many have said 1984 too, was a humour, with Sikhs and we should forget it!Perhaps, we should ask those thousands whose hundereds of family members were martyred in the 1984 Sikh Genocide; if are they laughing with such humour?
The only issues I can see is that this man Ikbal singh is for retiring as the head granthi/jathedar of the the Takhat Sri Patna sahib in the next few years or so..., perhaps upon his retirement, he may want to declare he is the alleged reincarnation that he predicted!!!!!!
@Chaan Pardesi Ji,
I stated the humour part only in a lighter vein, not to offend anyone.
In reality, People like Iqbal Singh are fit to be called the modern day 'Masands'. They should not enjoy any support from the Sikh community. Any talk about the reincarnation of Gurus is serious blasphemy towards Guru Granth Sahib, who is our living Guru. Dead people may need reincarnations, but a living Guru doesn't.
It was understood in the lighter vein of humour.It was never directed at you.But I thought I would press home the point that too many times and over a very very long period Sikhs have endured such shoshas of humour from such people.I think the community is seriously tired of such mad men.There are simply too many.
Perhaps as I said he is preparing to SEAT himself as-------------when he is retired from his current seat in two or three years time.I will bet this is the way he is thinking as I see it.
My writing more than often appears very assertive, and often not taken in light mode, mistakenly, but we cant change the frustrations such characters heap upon the community.
Veer Aristotle ji and Chaan Pardesi ji there is nothing assertive about your comments.
Such people need to be taken to task. We have become too much complacent and accepting of such people, basically idiot(s) and Panth destroyers in disguise. Just imagine how much unreported garbage and misleading stuff such people may have carried out or condoned from their positions.
We need to ensure that future generations are taught to see through such garbage and are equipped to handle such internal corruption through appropriate means. Yes these are acting like massands and such to turn back the clock of Sikhism to those days.
Sat Sri Akal.
Veer Ji I think you mean the Khalsa is the image ,Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is his soul. He may sort of take birth every time a Khalsa is born.
Time for a visual as my friend would say
Gurmukh Ambarsaria,JI, Gurfateh, Thank you for your kind words. You ARE right, but the problem is more than often, individuals are left to fight these madmen on their own.Often the many words of people are never seen to match their actions, when the time comes to be counted.
I always think in these times, how Guru Gobind Singh Ji too was abandonned...when he needed simple numbers...That gives me the strength.
I have never bowed to these pimps of filth, let what come.I am hated for that arrogance.I love being hated by these pimps of filth, but I know MY Guru JI has given me all the best and keps his hand upon me ...and I enjoy those little gifts in life from HIM.
Thank you for your kind words.May Guru Ji give more such will to more Sikhs to confront and write for the Guru's faith.
I would like Guru Gobind Singh ji to be back and end all controversies around Dasam Granth, Rehat etc. But it would never happen. It is up to us to protect what is left of Sikhi and accept that things lost are almost impossible to be reclaimed.
HA HA HA..LOL..and Veer Kamaljit ji..I wouuld love to have Guur Nanak Ji back to dispel ANY "doubts" that He had a friend called Bhai bala...that He indeed wrote His own Gurbani in a KITAAB that he carried on His travels..that He indeed passed on thsi "Gurbani in a Book" as a mark of succession to Bhai lehnna Ji as Guru Angad Ji....and I would love to have Guru Angad Ji back to dispel any doubts whether he indeed DIDNT KNOW naything about Guru nanank Ji and had to ask around to write a janamsakhi....and I would Love to have Guru Amardass ji..Guru Ramdass Ji back..to dispel any doubts that the GURBANI POTHIS were taken away by Baba MOHAN....and thus the two GURUS didnt posess the earlier GURUBANI...until GURU ARJUN JI had to go BEG Mohan for it ( and YES of course Guru Arjun Ji will ahve to be back to dispel any doubts about that too ??)....and Guru hargobind Ji will ahve to come back and dispel any doubts about the socalled DIWALI cum bandi Chorr DATES......and Guru Teg bahdur Ji will ahve to coem back and dispel nay doubts about pushing ships using his hsoulders while sitting deep underground..and whether He really ahd a MAGIC STRING tied to His neck to prevent the sword form cutting His head ....and WHY the magic string failed to do its Job..and also why the GURU ALLOWED Bhai mati dass to be SAWED ALIVE..while He himslef was wearing that STRING on his enck ?? LOL....ALL TEN GURUS will have to Come back !!! lol...lol...lol...
And of course it wont STOP there....Baba banda Singh Ji will also have to come back....Maharaja ranjit Singh...etc etc etc..YOU Name it..I have a DOZEN doubts to be dispelled by that particualr person...
and the BIGGEST LOL..will be when they INDEED COME BACK....and be LIVE on U-TUBE..world MEDIA COVERAGE..satellite Tv and all busy "dispelling doubts"....and there will be FAKE..ALTERED CDS..DVDS..being Mailed to AKAL TAKHAT for the FAST FIVE ones to see and make a Final DECISION....which may well be to SUMMON the offending GURU to the Fast five SECRETARIAT to give His satisfactory explanation or be EXCOMMUNICATED...ha ha ha lol...
'Fast five Secretariat' was indeed a great 'LOL'....
How can our seniors tolerate such things ? This may be a way to earn (wrong) fame and yes, money ! :whatzpointsing: