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Rana Caste

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by dream, Oct 24, 2008.

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  1. dream

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    hi,

    can anyone tell me Sikh Rana(surname) comes under which category. Some says rajput and some Jatt.

    Regards
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    dream ji

    Your screen name is great! Anyway I was intrigued by your question and looked it up. In fact the first hit on the Internet gave me 5 different answers.

    One thing to keep in mind though is that the varna system or caste system was not in the olden days as rigid as it is today in the middle levels. Entire families or clans were known to gather, take a vote, and then declare themselves members of a higher caste. A Brahmin could not go lower and a sudra could not rise higher. But among "jaats" this was not unheard of. The caste identity also varied from region to region in India historically -- so this may explain confusion over the name "Rana"

    Here is the link and I will look for other links. This link gives several answer, including Rajput, Jaat, and Khastryia

    Link: What caste did the Hindu surname Rana fall in? It is a Gujrati surname ????????/ - Yahoo! Answers India

    I will keep looking for you.
     
  4. spnadmin

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    Once again -- a mixed answer! This one is from Nation-Master Encyclopedia


    You are going to have a lot of fun with this one. Just put the words "rana name caste" in the Google search engine and you can see for yourself. You are not going to get one answer.
     
  5. Ms Rana

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    Although Sikhism doesn't believe in a caste system, however sometimes, i feel that an individual might be interested in finding out information aout his/her background. This curiosity led me to find out about RANA caste. DUring the medieval centuries, Rajputs converted into sikhs or muslims and some just ocntinued to be hindus and hence we find RANAs in all these three religious communities. However, this is the background for most Rana Sikhs:

    Rajput Goldsmiths conmprise of the following castes: Gogna, Kanda, Shinh, Rana, Verma, Sudhera, Sahdev, Sisodia, Bagga.


    GOLDSMITHS
    A goldsmith is a metalworker who specializes in working with gold and other precious metals, usually in modern times to make jewelry. Historically goldsmiths have also made flatware, platters, goblets, decorative and serviceable utensils, and ceremonial or religious items, but the rising prices of precious metals have curtailed the making of such items to a large degree. Goldsmiths must be skilled in forming metal through filing, soldering, sawing, forging, casting, and polishing metal. Traditionally, these skills had been passed along through apprenticeships, however, more recently Jewelry Arts Schools specializing solely in teaching goldsmithing and a multitude of skills falling under the jewelry arts umbrella are available. Many universities and junior colleges also offer goldsmithing, silversmithing and metal arts fabrication as a part of their fine arts curriculum
    RAJPUTS HISTORY
    Mair Rajputs or Maid Rajputs is the name of a Hindu Punjabi caste in India from amongst the Punjabi Rajputs. They are Hindu by religion and comprise of the warrior race of Rajputs who had originally migrated hundreds of years ago from the regions of Ajmer-Merwara and Rajputana with the movement of the armies that brought Rajput rule over Punjab, many in other times due to Islamic invasions on their homeland of Ajmer-Merwara (in present day Rajasthan) and had settled down in Punjab several hundred years ago.
    During the ensuing prolonged period of lasting peace there after when they could not be supported by the armies and could not find any work as warriors or in other times when many chose not to enlist in Muslim armies who had come to rule after many successive invasions on India, those Hindu Rajputs who came to be known as Mair or Maid Rajputs in Punjab chose to work as Sunars to survive. "Sunar" is a Hindi word for Goldsmith and Jeweler, (Sunyara is the word for them in local Punjabi language) in India, a metalworker who specializes in working with gold and also at the same time is a businessman specializing in selling gold, silver, other precious metals including precious stones and jewelry / ornaments crafted from these. In time it soon became a well known fact thereafter, locally in Punjab, that the profession and business of "Sunars" was monopolized and run by Hindu Rajputs who had slowly become a subcaste of the Punjabi Rajputs by then and became known as "Mair Rajputs".
    With the partition of India in 1947 into India and Pakistan the Indian state of Punjab was also split in two. Hindus and Sikhs including Mair Rajputs living in the portion of Punjab that was given to the newly created Muslim country of Pakistan had to leave by force to save themselves from communal slaughters and forceful conversion to Islam, many of them fled their ancestral homeland now in Pakistan in a complete destitute state and had to start life afresh in India. All their ancestral land, property and wealth was left behind in what was now Pakistan.
    Life was tough for the refugees including the Mair Rajputs at the beginning after partition; they had to live in a destitute state in refugee camps in India before they were allotted specially constructed houses in the Refugee colonies by the government of India. Many of them settled in Delhi and other parts of India after partition.
    Today they are again a very successful clan of people and have brought pride for their families and country by excelling in all walks of life, many of them joined the Armed Forces. The British recruited from this clan too from amongst the Rajputs for their Rajput Regiments due to their famous Rajput warrior bloodline and today the Indian Army continuous this tradition.
    A small percentage of them still continue to do business and practice as Sunars however majority of them were abruptly shocked to find that in portions of India outside Punjab where they had to migrate to (after the partition of India), the profession of Sunars was considered as something practiced by the lowest in the Hindu caste system known as the "Shudras / workers" who were still considered "untouchables" by some. Mair Rajputs in their recent history having been craftsmen working with Gold and precious metals, the Indian government gave them the classification of OBC (Other Backward Classes) clubbing them with other lower caste Sunars and craftsmen in the newly independent India giving them the option of using their OBC status to make use of special quotas and privileges set aside for them in higher education and government employment etc. to enable them to better their situation but as Rajputs they would be classified under Forward class with no additional privileges. Mair Rajputs are of the warrior cast "Kshatriya" which is the second highest cast in India after the learned "Brahmins". "Kshatriya" or the Rajputs are the ruling cast of India, a cast of Warriors and Kings / Rajas. Thus the Mair Rajput families after having migrated out of Punjab (the portion that was given to create the Muslim country of Pakistan) to India during partition in 1947 were embarrassed to mention their family craft and business as that of having known to be that of Sunars in the most recent past. They instead preferred to call themselves as "Punjabi Rajputs", which is of course also true and hid any association to Sunars / Goldsmiths / Jewelers. Many had already left practicing as Sunars many generations ago and entered other professions especially after higher education was more readily available.
    Today the Mair Rajputs not only live in India but have migrated and settled down all over the world and are doing very well for themselves in all fields, many Mair / Punjabi Rajput associations have cropped up all over the world specially in UK, USA and Canada

    HOPE THIS HELPED!
    If you are a RANA, let me know too. I am looking for more RANAs in the Sikh community to validate the information I have!
     
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Things are quite mixed up...what with many "Fake" castes these days...with less checks and balances...( in the old days the Pandits at Hardwaar kept the books..vahis..to record each death/birth/marriage etc and thus each oens family caste etc could be traced back generations and the village people knew every detail...) now adays peopel fly away..migrate overnight....and arrive in a new neighbourhood...can actually CHOOSE what new name they wnat...so what was a "Chumiar..or Ravidassiah" in Punjab...overnight becomes a "GILL" or a "DHILLON" in Canada. I personally know two such "ghumiar" who are NOW "GILL" in canada. So the Field is getting pretty murky....real information is getting blurred..."GOOD"'maybe..becasue SOON everyone will be a GILL/DHILLON etc ( so called high/jatt/castes".....and we may all become equal !!

    Anyway this is quite tongue in cheek..dont let me discourage you..keep looking...ones ROOTS are important....mine go back a long way...mostly because my family was interested....others dont care so much...
     
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  7. dalsingh

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    I have met Ranas who are both Muslims (Pakistani) and Sikhs in London. The Sikhs who have the name claim to be Jats, whilst the Muslims claim to be from a Rajput background. They are both likely to have the same antecedants.

    I have a theory which may explain. I know Randip Singh on the forumdoesn't share my views on this btw. lol

    If you look at some early Sikh and Persian sources, they highlight serious conflict between Khalsa Sikhs and Rajput princes/warriors. This is mentioned in Bachitar Natak. It is also recorded that Rajputs resisted Khalsa innovations and remain aloof from them, considering the Khalsa a generally low caste rabble.

    Historical processes (i.e. the Sikh revolution) in the 18th century turned things on their head. So some Rajputs converted to Sikhi, some to Islam and some remained Hindu. Within the Muslim community Jats are held in low esteem in comparison to Sikh Panjab. Hence Muslim Rajputs retained their former label, however within Sikh Panjab, I believe that Rajputs changed their identity to Jats, because this had a higher status in that community.

    In London I have met many Pakistani Ranas, Bhattis and Rathors all of whom described themselves as being of Rajput ancestory. As you may know these surnames (gotras) are also very common amongst Sikhs but every Sikh I have encountered with the same surnames so far, have described themselves as being of Jat ancestory. I think the status hypothesis may explain this.

    That being said, some clan names are strange in that they cross so called "castes" (which I think is the bane of SIkhs for the record). So you can meet "Maan" Jats and occasionally Tarkhan ones. Gills can also be Chumar or Jat. I'm not sure of Gyani Jis point because the Gill Chumars I have met do not try and hide their caste and present themselves as Jat. Similarly you can meet "Virdee" Tarkhans as well as "Virdee" Chumars.

    As I am getting older I am seeing that the so called rigid caste system has many holes and is not simply explainable as some linear development of separate communities. There is a lot more to it than this. Castes labels have probably not been as stable as made out by some.
     
  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Dal singh ji,
    my point about the Gill Chumars is just this..some are fake jats and soem are not...so some hide and others dont..depends on what is the motive.
    That said..this whole caste thign is ina flux from day one...just now i was reading abook about the 52 castes of the Mazhbi Sikhs...who are descendnats of 52 Main castes ranging from Kamboj rajputs etc etc
    The writer explains the various combinations as..Brahmin man + Brahmin Woman =B, Brahimn Man +
    Khatree woman=BK, BK +B=BBK...BBK +K =BBBK, Brahmin man + Chumar woman =BC..etc etc..so you see the Various COMBINATIONS are beyonf numbers/countings....the permutations are endless...and NOT the Simple FOUR CASTES..chaar varnas so commonly cited. Then add in the REGIONAL factors..rajashthani rajputs..siriya bansi moon bansis..this and that...kambojs, scythuians..greeks and what not...
    NO WONDER then that GURU JI wanted US OUT of thsi quagmire...quick sand !! is a collosal waste of time and resources...
     
  9. spnadmin

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    Gyani ji

    This is a learning experience. Great series of explanations.
     
  10. ProudMazbhi

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    Dear Gyani Jarnail Singh ji,

    I'm a Mazbhi sikh but raised in Australia and dont know much about my caste. Can you please tell me which book you are reading about Mazbhi sikhs as I want to know more about my caste.

    Regards,
    ProudMazbhi

    my point about the Gill Chumars is just this..some are fake jats and soem are not...so some hide and others dont..depends on what is the motive.
    That said..this whole caste thign is ina flux from day one...just now i was reading abook about the 52 castes of the Mazhbi Sikhs...who are descendnats of 52 Main castes ranging from Kamboj rajputs etc etc
    The writer explains the various combinations as..Brahmin man + Brahmin Woman =B, Brahimn Man +
    Khatree woman=BK, BK +B=BBK...BBK +K =BBBK, Brahmin man + Chumar woman =BC..etc etc..so you see the Various COMBINATIONS are beyonf numbers/countings....the permutations are endless...and NOT the Simple FOUR CASTES..chaar varnas so commonly cited. Then add in the REGIONAL factors..rajashthani rajputs..siriya bansi moon bansis..this and that...kambojs, scythuians..greeks and what not...
    NO WONDER then that GURU JI wanted US OUT of thsi quagmire...quick sand !! is a collosal waste of time and resources...[/quote]
     
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  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Its Mazhbi Sikhaan da Itihaas by Shamsher Singh Ashok Published by Bhai Chatar Singh Jiwan Singh Amrtisar and ISBN 81-7601-249-1. Ashok was historian of SGPC.
    Very interesting and factual research done by the author.
    You may be surprised to knwo that the 52 Castes of theose known as KAMBOJ..the Thinds etc of Kapurthala/Jalndhar region are also Mazhbhis but now they consider themsleves to be upwardly mobile and nearer the Jatts as many own a few acres of land and do vegetable farming ...and i dont know if thsi book is available on SPNs bookshop...have a search and see..
     
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  12. Randip Singh

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    Rana are originally Rajput. Rana's are just that, rulers, and I think they are solar dynasty.

    We have cousins who are Rana's.

    Those Rana's who married Jat, Suniar, Chummar etc women lost thier status and became members of that caste, hence why you get the surname in those groups, but most definitely Rajput. An example of this is Bhai Roop Chand and the Bagrian. Although Bhai Roop Chand was a Khokhar Rapput, his interminglling with Tarkhans, got his status lowered to Tarkhan and his family ancestors (Bagrian), are eading Ramgarhia memebers today.


    The one's I know have serious issues and and anger management problems. :eek:

    As for Muslim Rajput, that is an Oxymoron. The title Rajput goes alongside defending Dharma (i.e. Hinduism). If you are a Muslim and Rajput, are you defending Hinduism? Even a Sikh could still claim to be Rajput through the 9th Masters sacrifice, but a Muslim? I always find that strange.:confused:
     
  13. Randip Singh

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    The other thing I forgot to mention was that women of non-Raput caste (in this case Jat, Nai, Chammar), were taken into the Rajput "Zanana's". Although not officially married these women were treated as if they were wives, and their ofspring (although they had the fathers name), were granted "Jagirs" etc. This is another way that surnames of Rajputs were passed on.

    Another way that surnames were passed on, was by working for a person, i.e. Rajput called Rana emplyed x Jat, y Chammar, z Tarkhan. They took on the family name.
     
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  14. AusDesi

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    Glad someone else knows the truth.

    Saying Muslim Rajput is like saying Muslim Brahmin or Muslim Saraswat. It makes no ******* sense.

    Also, its wrong on two accounts. Islam bans Caste but allows tribes. Rajput is not a tribe.

    However, the problem with modern day religious people is that they are fine with accepting some things of other religion while discarding others. So muslims might hate Hinduism and its castecism but on the other hand will be proud about having a Rajput background.
     
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  15. ProudMazbhi

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    Thanks a lot Gyani Jarnail Singh ji.

    I find it really funny that people in India think that some of them are better or worse because of their caste.

    But, I guess this is how the things are back in India.

    Thanks once again.

    With Regards,
    ProudMazbhi
     
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  16. faujasingh

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    Caste factor does not leave the indian mindset. There are muslim rajputs who take pride in adding Rana to their names. I would suggest this website http://www.sikhrajput.com . I have gone through their guest book and see a lot of muslim rajput entries.

    Here is a excerpt from the website in this regard.

    Sikh Rajput | Rajput History

    Rajput History
    Origin and History of Rajputs:



    The term "Rajput" is derived from the Sanskrit word raja-putra that means son of a king. The word occurs in the Rigveda and Yajurveda where it is used as a synonym for Raja-nya or Kshatrita. However a distinction is made there between Raj-putras (Rajputs) and Kshatriya: Rajputs are Kshatriyas that are sons of a royal household. There is considerable amount of confusion and controversy among historians regarding the actual origin of Rajputs. Some believe Rajputs to be descendants of Vedic Aryans, some believe them to be of Indo-Scythian origin while others assign foreign origin to only some of the Rajput clans.

    The historians that assign Vedic Aryan origin to Rajputs divide them into dynasties: Solar and Lunar. The earliest reference to these dynasties is found in the Mahabharata and Puranas. These dynasties are believed to be two hordes of Aryans who came to India from Central Asia and followed the Solar and Lunar calendar respectively. The Solar Rajputs are believed to have arrived first and settled in the region that is now Haryana State of Republic of India. The Lunar Rajputs are believed to have arrived on the tracks of the Solar Rajputs and initially faced fierce resistance from them. These dynasties are supposed to have then spread all over northern India and all the present clans of Rajputs are descended from them.

    Now let’s consider a fantastic myth regarding the origin of Rajputs put forth in Prithiviraja-raso (a ballad written by the court-poet of King Prithiviraja III in circa 1178 AD). According to these, four warriors namely. Parihara. Chaulukya, Parmara, and Chahuvana were created by rishis (Hindu holy men) out of a ceremonial pyre to fight demos. The clans headed by these warriors are eventually supposed to have expanded into thirty-six further clans of Rajputs.

    A number of historians assign Indo-Scythian origin to Rajputs although the reasons given for this are multifarious and sometimes contradictory. Scythians were people that lived on the other side of the Hindukush Mountains during the period of the Greco-Bactrian rule in India. Some proponents of this theory point to the affinity in the physical appearance and martial practices and poetry of the Rajputs and Scythians. Other proponents claim that the events of Prithiviraja-Raso are a metaphorical reference to the conversion (cleansing by fire) of a few tribes of Scythians to Hinduism. These tribes are supposed to have been "recruited" by Brahmans to fight other Indo-Scythian tribes that were harassing the Brahmans. The opponents of this theory point to the inherent contradiction in the claim that some Scythian tribes converted en masse to a different religion and took up arms against other Scythian tribes. Finally, some proponents of this theory claim that the present day descendents of the Scythians in the west and the Rajputs India have similar sounding last names and must therefore be of the same origin.

    Some historians have combined the above two theories to claim that Rajputs are initially of Vedic Aryan origin but that some Indo-Scythian tribes have also become Rajputs. Despite the disagreements regarding the origin of Rajputs, there is a general consensus that the period from 6th century AD to 13th century AD is the period in which Rajputs flourished the most. He rise to power of the Rajputs coincided with the decline the Gupta Empire in late 5th century AD. The various Rajput clans ruled over a geographical area that is presently Rajasthan, and parts of Punjab and Haryana, the northern States of Republic of India. The decline of the Rajputs began with the defeat in a decisive battle with the Turkish Sultan of Ghor. Although the Rajputs persisted in their resistance of the Muslim invaders, the resistance was mostly fragmentary. The mughal Emperor Aurangzeb putting an end to centuries of Rajput rule finally conquered the last of Rajput kingdoms.

    Although the Rajputs were warriors who initially fought to preserve a polytheistic religion (Hinduism) from the influence of a monotheistic religion (Buddhism), a large proportion of Rajputs today practice monotheism in the form of Sikhism and Islam. They have spread all across the globe and are flourishing. It wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say that they have been prominently involved in politics economics and culture of northern Indo-Pak since the 7th century. A large number of books have been written regarding the origin, history and culture of the Rajputs. Some of these are listed below and the interested reader can refer to them for future details.



    References:


    Origin of Rajputs by Jai Narayan Asopa, Bhartiya Publishing House, 1976
    Origin of the Rajputs by R. B. Singh, Sahitya Sansar Parkashan, 1975
    Caste, Tribes, and Culture of Rajputs edited by K. P. Bahadur. Ess Ess publications, 1978
    Lectures on Rajputs History and Culture by Dashratha Sharma, Motilal Banarasidass, 1970
    History and Study of the Jats by B. S. Dhillon, Beta publishers Inc., 1994
    Jats, The Ancient rulers: A Clan Study by B. S. Dahiya, Sterling Publishers
     
  17. faujasingh

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    FYI Rajput is not a caste. The caste is Kshatriya and Rajput is a clan. Rana is a title so is thakur. Each has different meanings. Thakur is for the land owning rajputs. Rana is for rulers. I think Rana is junior to a Raja. A king of a smaller region.
     
  18. faujasingh

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    There are many muslims of brahmin origin who too were forcefully converted. A.R. Antulay a former CM of the state of Maharashtra use to proudly say during campaigning with Indira gandhi that his origins were brahmin.
     
  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    so one cant take the "brahmin" out of anyone ?? No wonder the SIKHS cant shake off this Caste monkey off our tails...
     
  20. AusDesi

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    Having 'Rajput' origin and being a Rajput are two different things. Rana is a title so yes it can be given to anyone.
     
  21. AusDesi

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    Brahmins traditionally have a role to play in a society. Ok tell me this, Will Antulay take daan? daan is the offering people give to a brahmin which supposedly goes to their ancestors. Will Antulay take daan and bless the people because that is the job of a brahmin.
     

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