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Hinduism Ram and Krishna in Sikhism: A Hindu Perspective

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by gurtej khubbar, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. gurtej khubbar

    gurtej khubbar
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    Say Sri Akal everyone's

    Someone posted a question in other forums and unfortunately I am not knowledgable to answer it. San someone help me answering the question is that I can make Sikhism stand on the below clear to them. Some Hindus trying to device that a lot if people by saying Rama is mentioned a lot if times in guru Granth but I know Ram is used for waheguru and not ram chandra. It's just I don't know how I explain. Below is the question:

    Q: Sikh belief encourages reverence or Rama, Krishna and cultivating bhakti or praise for them?

    Quote:
    The following are mystical lines unraveled from the sacred scripture of the Sikh faith Sri Guru Granth Sahib. This is a compilation of verses sung in the praise of Hari, Govinda, Rama and guru. The scripture recommends the human being to become a Sikh (sishya), or a disciple of the spiritual master, in order to attain the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord. Sri Guru Grantha Sahib is composed in a poetic form in various classical ragas.

    Guru Nanak Dev, the first Sikh guru, recites in the Raga Ramakali Mahala 1, Dakhni Omkar as follows:

    God is one, realized by the grace of the guru.
    Absolute Truth Om is the creator of Brahma.
    Brahma kept Om in his heart, in his consciousness.
    Absolute Truth is the creator of mountains, eras (yugas).
    Absolute Truth is the one from whom Vedasa come.
    Omkara is the word that liberates.
    Omkara liberates the ones who follow the instruction of their spiritual master.
    Om is the word you listen and ponder.
    Om is the word ”the essence of the three worlds.
    Listen O pandita! Why you pen down all worldly deeds
    Write only the name of Rama and Gopala attributed by the mercy of guru.

    Lord Krishna declares in Bhagavad-gita (7.8), pranavah sarva-vedeshu: I am syllable om in the Vedic mantras.

    Guru Grantha Sahib also mentions how Krishna is the source of Brahma.

    After appearing from the lotus stem originating from Vishnus naval Brahma cleared his throat and got absorbed in the Vedas. But he could not fathom the mysteries of the Supreme and was entangled in the cycle of coming and going (birth and death). O my beloved Lord! How can one forget the Supreme on whom all are dependant? The devotees are absorbed in His devotion. The sages, the saints under their gurus instructions are engrossed in serving the Supreme. Sun, moon and stars all belong to Him and in all the three worlds only Murari is pervading. Only one who follows gurus instruction is purified but the one who is a mental speculator always wander in darkness.

    The lines below quite clearly portray the Supreme Lord leaving nothing to wild imagination.

    Lord has lotus eyes, speaks sweet words like honey, millions are in His congregation, glorifying Him and Mother Yasoda feeds Him with curd and cooked rice. Seeing the beauty of most beautiful and listening to the melodious sound of anklets and the waistband, she (Yasoda) captivated by the motherly love plays with Him. The pen that writes the order of death is in Your hand O Lord! Tell! Who can escape it? Siva and Brahma with a happy heart learn knowledge and want to meditate upon You.

    You are the Absolute Truth. Goddess Laxmi is Your maidservant and You are the oldest person (adi purusha) parabrahman and I glorify You. You are vaha guru vaha guru vaha guru. ||1||6||

    Ramas name is the ultimate abode. You are pure wisdom, You are infinite and can take any form. Who can match You?

    For the love of Your devotee You disguised to kill Hiranyakasipu with Your nails.

    You created the conch, disc, mace, lotus to bind by Your spell. O Infinite Supreme God who can know You ?

    You are the Absolute Truth||2||7||

    You wear yellow clothes, Your teeth look like jasmine buds; You enjoy with Your consort (Srimati Radharani).You wear a long garland and a crown decorated with peacock feathers.

    You require no minister to render advice, most patient; You are inaccessible, creator of the whole play O Lovable!

    O king of the kings, lovable, Your story cannot be narrated; You are pervading in the three worlds, and You can adopt any form You desire.

    You are the ||3||8||

    Nestled in the Swayyaa Mahalley 4 on page 1402 of the scripture these lines quoted above define and glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Lord is addressed here as vaha guru.

    The meaning of word vaha guru is well put forth by Bhai Gurdasa ji who is a contemporary of the fifth Sikh guru Arjun Dev ji. He is the one who penned down the Granth Sahib while the fifth guru recited it. Bhai Gurdasa has authored a book called Vaara where he elaborates on the compilation of the mantra vaha guru.
    In his book in the section of 1 Varaa, Pauri 49 he says:

    In Satyayuga to attain the Lord, meditation on the Vasudeva form is advocated. The letter v of vaha guru reminds of Vishnu. In Dvapara yuga Hari Krishna appeared; the letter h of vaha guru reminds of Hari. In Treta yuga Rama appeared; the letter r of vaha guru reminds of Rama. In Kali yuga came Nanak as a guru to make others chant Govinda. The letter g of vaha guru reminds of Govinda. Thus the four yugas have concluded this. The four letters combined together to form this mantra (vaha guru) By chanting this mantra the living entity goes back from where he has come.

    Holy name

    Non different to the maha-mantra Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, the Granth Sahib describes the glories of singing: Hari Hari Hare Hare Hrishikesa Hare,Hare Govinda Hare Govind,Hare Nar Narhare Nar Narhareis the highest devotion.
    The Granth Sahib in Var, Raga Kanra Mahalla: 4 recites;

    The name of Rama is the treasure; in the wisdom of the guru keep it in mind Live as a servant of His (Ramas) servants, and kill the poison of false ego from within. Thus you will win the wealth of life and never face defeat Nanak says, Those deeply blessed are greater than the great and who in wisdom of the spiritual master enjoy the nectar of Hari.

    Recite Govinda Govinda Govinda, one gains purity and radiance
    All join together to chant Haris (Krishnas) name and Hare (His internal potency) as this would lead to the forgiveness of the past sins.

    Only some are fortunate enough to be blessed by the spiritual master with the name of Hari Hari Hari Hari as this is the only name. By chanting this, the false ego, worldly ties and bad qualities get cleansedLet us all chant Hrishikesa (one of the many names of Krishna) and Hare (His consort) so as to obtain all rewards.

    Vaishnava

    A Vaishnava has the topmost human consciousness as described in the scriptures. Same has been advocated in the Granth Sahib. In the 9th verse (Astapati) of a hymn sukhmani Sahib composed by Guru Arjun Dev, the word vaishnava has been well defined: who is bound to attain parama gati, the highest destination.

    It recites as:

    He is untouched by the worldliness created by the Lord .
    He acts without any worldly motive.
    Vaishnava religion is purity.
    He works with no aspiration for fruits.
    He is engrossed in devotion and kirtana of the Supreme.
    In his mind and body always resides Gopala.
    He is compassionate to all.
    He himself chants and makes others also to so.
    Nanaka says, Such a Vaishnava attains the holy abode.

    The devotee is engrossed in the Lords love—the adorable
    He abdicates the company of the wicked.
    All doubts vanish from his mind.
    He performs puja (worship) of the Lord .
    In the association of saints he washes the dirt of his sins.
    On such a devotee, the wisdom shall reign.
    He always serves the Lord .
    He surrenders his mind, body at the altar of the love of Vishnu.
    He adorns Haris lotus feet in his heart.
    Nanaka says, Such a devotee is blessed to meet the

    I hope this lengthy post was not a pain to read lord.
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    The thread has been moved from Questions and Answers to Interfaith Dialogues/Hinduism because the understanding given by the Original Poster echoes many explanations given by Hindu scholars about the Sikh religion and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We have many articles here at SPN that debate all or nearly all the claims made by the OP in this thread. So, please familiarize yourself with the Sikh perspective, the Gurmat perspective, the wisdom of the Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If this thread becomes a platform for proselytizing or at any time fails to examine religions comparatively, it will be closed. If extreme negativity and anger dominate the conversation the thread will be closed and/or comments by individuals will be deleted without notice. If we can, let's make this a learning experience.

    The thread title has also been changed to a title which more accurately describes the content in the original post. The original title was misleading.


    Thank you for your kindness.
     
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    #2 spnadmin, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  4. Kamala

    Kamala
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    I don't see anything wrong with praising someone haha. They did good deeds and had powers as well. Not sure if Vishnu is "God" though, I may be wrong but I read in phaat that God created Vishnu Brahma and Shiva.. maybe they mean he created himself? But I think I also remember that it said something like all the gods/goddesses worship Pramatma..
     
  5. gurtej khubbar

    gurtej khubbar
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    Sikhs only sings the praises of the true god. One creator. If everything is its creation then I would rather praise the creator rather then the creation.

    Saying that you can respect anyone you want. People praise Satya Sai Baba for taking him as a god, do you think there is nothing wrong in there? haha

    Krishna, Rama etc were all great kings of their times and did good deeds so you should respect and praise them but not in the sense of creator.

    God created Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva and they dance to his tunes, so I rather sing the creator praises rather then those 3.

    Thanks
     
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  6. Kamala

    Kamala
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    Haha noo but I don't mean praising them as God :p
     
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  7. gurtej khubbar

    gurtej khubbar
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    Haha then no issues winkingmunda

    Buy of they are not god then don't compare them in the same bracket either ... There is none like waheguru and wil never be:blueturban:
     
  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    ONLY the CREATOR is 100% TRUE to HIS "NAMES"....IF hes called RAAM..then he is Ramiah hoyah..present everywhere..yesterday..today and tomorrow...He will be here there and everywhere...

    IF he GOPAL..he takes his job seriously..He TAKES CARE of the UNIVERSE...sans fear nor enmity and no favours...

    IF hes Narayan..he is the real master of the Oceans..here and all around the UNIVERSE...

    HUMAN BEINGS on the other hand seldom have ALL the qualities attributes that their NMAES suggest...like for example..my name is JARNAIL..it means GENERAL...Warrior..but i have neither an army...nor have i ever carried or used a weapon (warrior)...likewise a SHER SINGH (Double lion) may run away from a Cats MEOW !! Ram Chander son of dasrath..cried when his wife Sita was snatched...he marched on Lanka..fought the king ravan and burnt down his kingdom...THE CREATOR RAAM would NEVER do any of such...Logan Raam KHILONNA jannah...declares SGGS...The CREATOR RAAM is not a plaything or puppet...HE is in Raam chander..He is in Ravan !!mundahug
     
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