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Controversial Raagmala - Is It Really Part Of Gurbani?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Ishna, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    @Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji, I'm forwarding this message on behalf of Swarn Bains:

     
    #1 Ishna, Oct 14, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2015
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  3. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    sggs page 1430
    Raag mala; rosary of tunes
    ੴ ਸਸਤਿਗਗੁਰ ਪਪ੍ਰਸਬਾਸਦਿ ॥
    God is one. He is realized by guru’s grace.
    ਰਬਾਗ ਏਕ ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਪਸਿੰਚ ਬਰਸਿੰਗਨ ॥ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਅਲਬਾਪਸਹ ਆਠਉ ਨਸਿੰਦਿਨ ॥
    There is one tune (God). The whole world sings His
    praise in classical Tunes in the group of five;
    ਪਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਰਬਾਗ ਭੜਰਉ ਵੜ ਕਰਹਣੀ ॥
    The first major tune is Raag Bhairao (Devotee’s tune).
    Page 1430
    ਪਸਿੰਚ ਰਬਾਗਨਣੀ ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਉਚਰਹਣੀ ॥
    It sings the praise of God in a group of five including other sub
    tunes.
    ਪਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਭੜਰਵਣੀ ਸਬਲਬਾਵਲਣੀ ॥
    First sub tune in the group is Bhairavee, and Bilaavalee;
    ਪਗੁਸਿੰਸਨਆਕਣੀ ਗਬਾਵਸਹ ਬਸਿੰਗਲਣੀ ॥
    Your praises are sung in melodious tunes.
    ਪਗੁਸਨ ਅਸਲਨਖਣੀ ਕਣੀ ਭਈ ਬਬਾਰਣੀ ॥
    Then comes the turn of other truthful tunes;
    ਏ ਭੜਰਉ ਕਣੀ ਪਬਾਚਉ ਨਬਾਰਣੀ ॥
    These are the five tunes of major tune Bhairao.
    ਪਸਿੰਚਮ ਹਰਖ ਸਦਿਸਬਾਖ ਸਗੁਨਬਾਵਸਹ ॥
    All five sing Your praises joyfully in godly tunes.
    ਬਸਿੰਗਬਾਲਮ ਮਧਗੁ ਮਬਾਧਵ ਗਬਾਵਸਹ ॥੧॥
    Singing your praises in beautiful tunes full of melody; ||1||
    ਲਲਤਿ ਸਬਲਬਾਵਲ ਗਬਾਵਹਣੀ ਅਪਗੁਨਣੀ ਅਪਗੁਨਣੀ ਭਬਾਨਸਤਿ
    Tunes Lalat and Bilaaval - each have their own melody.
    ਅਸਟ ਪਗੁਤ੍ਰਿ ਭੜਰਵ ਕਨ ਗਬਾਵਸਹ ਗਬਾਇਨ ਪਬਾਤ੍ਰਿ ॥੧॥
    Everyone is the son of Bhairav (God). Sings your praise in
    devotion! ||1||
    ਦਿਗੁਤਿਣੀਆ ਮਬਾਲਕਉਸਕ ਆਲਬਾਪਸਹ ॥ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਰਬਾਗਨਣੀ ਪਬਾਚਉ ਥਬਾਪਸਹ ॥
    The second major tune is Maalakausak (Acquired knowledge)
    also sing Your praises in the group of five tunes!
    ਗਖੋਂਡਿਕਰਣੀ ਅਰਗੁ ਦਿਨਵਗਸਿੰਧਬਾਰਣੀ ॥ਗਸਿੰਧਬਾਰਣੀ ਸਣੀਹਗੁਤਿਣੀ ਉਚਬਾਰਣੀ ॥
    Gondakaree and Dev Gandhaaree sing Your praises in loud
    voice.
    ਧਨਬਾਸਰਣੀ ਏ ਪਬਾਚਉ ਗਬਾਈ ॥ਮਬਾਲ ਰਬਾਗ ਕਉਸਕ ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਲਬਾਈ ॥
    Including Dhanaasaree and maal raag in the group of
    Maalakausak;
    ਮਬਾਰਦੂ ਮਸਤਿਅਸਿੰਗ ਮਨਵਬਾਰਬਾ ॥ਪਪ੍ਰਬਲਚਸਿੰਡਿ ਕਉਸਕ ਉਭਬਾਰਬਾ ॥
    Maaroo raag is the devotional tune of Maiwar sung emotionally
    in the group.
    ਖਉਖਟ ਅਉ ਭਉਰਬਾਨਦਿ ਗਬਾਏ ॥ਅਸਟ ਮਬਾਲਕਉਸਕ ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਲਬਾਏ ॥੧॥
    The devotional singers sing their best. Every
    one is the son of Maalakausak (God). ||1||
    ਪਗੁਸਨ ਆਇਅਉ ਸਹਸਿੰਡਿਸੋਲਗੁ ਪਸਿੰਚ ਨਬਾਸਰ ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਅਸਟ ਸਗੁਤਿ ॥
    Then comes Hindol (joy); all sing Your praises in the group of
    five.
    ਉਠਸਹ ਤਿਬਾਨ ਕਲਸੋਲ ਗਬਾਇਨ ਤਿਬਾਰ ਸਮਲਬਾਵਹਣੀ ॥੧॥
    They sing in harmony to the best of their ability. ||1||
    ਤਿਨਲਸਿੰਗਣੀ ਦਿਨਵਕਰਣੀ ਆਈ ॥ਬਸਸਿੰਤਿਣੀ ਸਸਿੰਦਿਦੂਰ ਸਗੁਹਬਾਈ ॥
    Then, comes Taylangee the music of gods; it is sung
    with the best attire including saffron on forehead.
    ਸਰਸ ਅਹਣੀਰਣੀ ਲੜ ਭਬਾਰਜਬਾ ॥ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਲਬਾਈ ਪਬਾਨਚਉ ਆਰਜਬਾ ॥
    The universe blooms and becomes green O brother;
    here also Your praises are sung in the group of five tunes.
    ਸਗੁਰਮਬਾਨਸਿੰਦਿ ਭਬਾਸਕਰ ਆਏ ॥ਚਸਿੰਦਿਖ੍ਸਬਸਿੰਬ ਮਸਿੰਗਲਨ ਸਗੁਹਬਾਏ ॥
    The singers come well dressed wearing mascara, scent of
    sandalwood on the forehead and wearing the sacred thread.
    ਸਰਸਬਬਾਨ ਅਉ ਆਸਹ ਸਬਨਸੋਦਿਬਾ ॥ਗਬਾਵਸਹ ਸਰਸ ਬਸਸਿੰਤਿ ਕਮਸੋਦਿਬਾ ॥
    The whole atmosphere fills with joy, they sing Your
    praises in tune basant with musical instruments.
    ਅਸਟ ਪਗੁਤ੍ਰਿ ਮੜ ਕਹਨ ਸਵਬਾਰਣੀ ॥
    God pervades in every one.
    ਪਗੁਸਨ ਆਈ ਦਿਣੀਪਕ ਕਣੀ ਬਬਾਰਣੀ ॥੧॥
    Then comes the turn of Deepak (enlightenment); ||1||
    ਕਛਨਲਣੀ ਪਟਮਸਿੰਜਰਣੀ ਟਸੋਡਿਣੀ ਕਹਣੀ ਅਲਬਾਸਪ ॥
    Todee raag is sung with lot of zest in the group of five tunes.
    ਕਬਾਮਸੋਦਿਣੀ ਅਉ ਗਦੂਜਰਣੀ ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਦਿਣੀਪਕ ਕਨ ਥਬਾਸਪ ॥੧॥
    Goojree raag is sung with musical instruments in the group
    major raag Deepak. ||1||
    ਕਬਾਲਸਿੰਕਬਾ ਕਗੁਸਿੰਤਿਲ ਅਉ ਰਬਾਮਬਾ ॥ਕਮਲਕਗੁਸਮ ਚਸਿੰਪਕ ਕਨ ਨਬਾਮਬਾ ॥
    The ugly the beautiful and the devotees of God;
    all are the children of the same flower The God.
    ਗਉਰਬਾ ਅਉ ਕਬਾਨਰਬਾ ਕਸਲਆਨਬਾ ॥ ਅਸਟ ਪਗੁਤ੍ਰਿ ਦਿਣੀਪਕ ਕਨ ਜਬਾਨਬਾ ॥੧॥
    Raag Gauraa, Kaanaraa and Kaylaanaa; all are the son of
    Deepak (God). ||1||
    ਸਭ ਸਮਸਲ ਸਸਰਣੀਰਬਾਗ ਵੜ ਗਬਾਵਹ ॥ਪਬਾਨਚਉ ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਬਰਸਿੰਗਨ ਲਬਾਵਸਹ ॥
    All join and sing Siree Raag (tune to honor God) that also is
    sung in the group of five.
    ਬੜਰਬਾਰਣੀ ਕਰਨਬਾਟਣੀ ਧਰਣੀ ॥ਗਵਰਣੀ ਗਬਾਵਸਹ ਆਸਬਾਵਰਣੀ
    Bairaaree is the tune of Karnaatka. The Aasaavaree is sung in
    a simple tune.
    ਸਤਿਹ ਪਬਾਛੜ ਸਸਸਿੰਧਵਣੀ ਅਲਬਾਪਣੀ ॥ਸਸਰਣੀਰਬਾਗ ਸਸਉ ਪਬਾਨਚਉ ਥਬਾਪਣੀ ॥੧॥
    Then follows raag Sindhavee; It is also the part of the group of
    tune siree Raag. ||1||
    ਸਬਾਲਦੂ ਸਬਾਰਗ ਸਬਾਗਰਬਾ ਅਉਰ ਗਖੋਂਡਿ ਗਸਿੰਭਣੀਰ ॥
    Deep tune Raag Saarag is sung in deep devotion and raag
    Gond is serious.
    ਅਸਟ ਪਗੁਤ੍ਰਿ ਸਪ੍ਰਣੀਰਬਾਗ ਕਨ ਗਗੁਸਿੰਡਿ ਕਗੁਸਿੰਭ ਹਮਣੀਰ ॥੧॥
    Everyone is the son of Siree Raag (God) whether
    named Gund, Kumb or Hameer. ||1||
    ਖਸਟਮ ਮਨਘ ਰਬਾਗ ਵੜ ਗਬਾਵਸਹ ॥ਪਬਾਨਚਉ ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਬਰਸਿੰਗਨ ਲਬਾਵਸਹ ॥
    The sixth major tune is Maygh Raag. (tune of guru`s grace)
    Also sung in the group of five tunes!
    ਸਸੋਰਸਠ ਗਖੋਂਡਿ ਮਲਬਾਰਣੀ ਧਗੁਨਣੀ ॥
    The tunes Sorath, Gond, and Malaar are part of Mayagh raag.
    ਪਗੁਸਨ ਗਬਾਵਸਹ ਆਸਬਾ ਗਗੁਨ ਗਗੁਨਣੀ ॥
    Including Aasaa that is sung in slow rytham in the head;
    ਊਚੜ ਸਗੁਸਰ ਸਦੂਹਉ ਪਗੁਸਨ ਕਣੀਨ ॥ ਮਨਘ ਰਬਾਗ ਸਸਉ ਪਬਾਚਉ ਚਣੀਨਣੀ ॥੧॥
    All sung in devotion loudly and form the
    part of the group of five the Maygh Raag. ||1||
    ਬੜਰਬਾਧਰ ਗਜਧਰ ਕਨਦਿਬਾਰਬਾ ॥ਜਬਲਣੀਧਰ ਨਟ ਅਉ ਜਲਧਬਾਰਬਾ ॥
    The salty land, jungles, the religious shrines, the
    land of warriors and the land of rivers;
    ਪਗੁਸਨ ਗਬਾਵਸਹ ਸਸਿੰਕਰ ਅਉ ਸਸਆਮਬਾ ॥
    Everywhere the devotees and the prophets sing Your praises.
    ਮਨਘ ਰਬਾਗ ਪਗੁਤ੍ਰਿਨ ਕਨ ਨਬਾਮਬਾ ॥੧॥
    Those are the names of the sons of God the Maygh Raag.
    ਖਸਟ ਰਬਾਗ ਉਸਨ ਗਬਾਏ ਸਸਿੰਸਗ ਰਬਾਗਨਣੀ ਤਿਣੀਸ ॥
    Six major tunes have been sung including the sub tunes
    totaling thirty in Your admiration. One more added later.
    ਸਭੜ ਪਗੁਤ੍ਰਿ ਰਬਾਗਸਿੰਨ ਕਨ ਅਠਬਾਰਹ ਦਿਸ ਬਣੀਸ ॥੧॥੧॥
    All are the sons of the Creator of music (God)
    whether eighteen, ten or twenty. ||1||1||
     
  4. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Sat Sri Akaal Swarn Ji

    Do you know what the raags in Raag Mala do not match the Raags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

    Many thanks
     
  5. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    Every thing sggs is gurbani about divine or divinity including rag mala. i just put my explanation of raag maala. it is one of the master pieces. if sikh scholars do not understand then what can i do. i know what u want to say. well let me know the conflict with alam or anyone else then i will answer your question also.
     
  6. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    some how the punjabi wording of raag mala changed in the above report. can u tell me why.
     
  7. Ishna

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    I have no real feelings about Raag Mala. But when I look at it, I see
    1. It comes after Guru Arjun's seal at the end of the Gurbani.
    2. The raags listed don't match the ones in the Gurbani.
    What is the purpose of raagmala?
     
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  8. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    it appears that you do not know the background of raag maala. first u find out that and then we will discuss
     
  9. Ishna

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    Regardless of its background, I feel my questions are still valid.
     
  10. Ishna

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    A little bit of background courtesy of Wikipedia...

    The raagmala appended to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not much different from the others, and, by itself, does not set up a new system. This raagmala is nearest to the Hanuman Mat, but the arrangement of raags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is nearer to the Saiv Mala and the Kalinath Mat which give primacy to Siri Raag. The only system wherein occur all the raags and sub-raags employed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Bharat Mat.

    In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji no distinction has been made between raags and rdgims and all the measures employed have been given the status of raags, each one of them recognized in its own right and not as “wife” or “son” to another raag. In practice over a long stretch of time, Gurmat Sangeet, i.e. Sikh music, has evolved its own style and conventions which make it a system distinct from other Indian systems.

    There are 8 raags that are utilised in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that have not been mentioned in the Raagmala. These are: Bihagara, Wadahans, Manjh, Jaitsri, Ramkali, Tukhari, Prabhati and Jaijawanti. Mali-Gaura is not included in Raagmala but Gaura is.[2]

    “The last pages of the Kartarpur Beerh do not suggest, either because of the presence of blank spaces, or scoring out, or obliteration hortal, or otherwise, that there was or could have been the least intention to write these hymns in the Granth. The Mudaavni is on page 973/1. Pages 973/2 and 974/1 are blank, and on page 974/2 is Raagmala. As such, there could never have been the possibility, nor could it ever have been contemplated that these three writings requiring a space of over four pages could have been accommodated on the two blank pages 973/2 and 974/1.” [3]

    The puraatan (old) saroops that did or do include Raagmala (like Bhai Banno Beerh) also included other compositions after Mundaavni (but before Raagmala), such as: (i) Jit Dar Lakh Mohammada, (ii) Siahi Di Bhidhi, (iii) Ratanmala, (iv) Hakeekatrah mukam, (v) Praan Sangli, (vi) Rab Mukam Ki Sabk, (vii) Baye Atisb (16 saloks) etc. All seven of these compositions that existed after Mundaavni (but before Raagmala) were all unanimously discredited by the Panth and it was acknowledged that mischievous individuals had over time included these compositions at the end of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but had no standing against Gurbani.
    Even the Rehat Maryada is in doubt over Raagmala's status:

    Article XI (a) of the Sikh Rehat Maryada (SRM): "The reading of the whole Guru Granth Sahib (intermittent or non-stop) may be concluded with the reading of Mundawani alone or the Rag Mala according to the convention traditionally observed at all the concerned places. (Since there is a difference of opinion within the Panth on this issue, nobody should dare to write or print a copy of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji excluding the Raag Mala)." [7]
     
  11. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Ut oh you done opened a can of worms!!! Some will call you blasphemous for even asking lol!

    The fact remains some historical birs do not have raagmala.

    From what I can see it serves two purposes... It describes the contents of SGGSJ (missing a few raags) it describes the way classical raag works and so how Kirtan is to be sung. But you can look deeper and see that it is also talking about harmonic resonance of the universe.

    The basis of the universe is frequency not matter.... Matter arises from conscious thought. But everything is really just energy in vibration.

    So we start with there is one tune Whch is God. All major religions say creation happened as w word (or thought) which is pure frequency. All else emanates from that like take a single note in music. That note will also have harmonics and a resonant frequency. We know heat light sound radiation thought nuclear bonds etc are all different frequency octaves of the one same thing.

    So God is the base frequency and raagmala seems to me to be describing creation as harmonic frequencies and octaves from this base - and it uses the very construction of SGGSJ to explain it. Though I am not sure the relevance of the number five as octave is 8 but five is a recurring number in Sikhi like five thrives five virtues, five beloved (prank pyaras) five kakkars etc. As for a scientific link to number five I'll have to look further but if there is a scientific link to that number on an intrinsic level like octave 8 is then I will be in awe!

    But as for the missing rags I can't comment...
     
  12. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    That should have said five thieves lol autocorrect.
     
  13. Ishna

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    And panj pyare :p
     
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  14. swarn bains

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    I plead that there is no harm reading what i am trying to say. though all of you have read the translation by some one else and do not like reading what i am trying to say. The raagmala has eight raags missing compared to all the raags in sggs. that means that it is not counting of the raags. neither it has five octaves nor eight octaves. i put it before but punjabi version was garbled. i am putting it again . i hope punjabi version comes out correct. if it does not then i cannot proceed further. let us see the translations from different people and then see what it is trying to tell us. after reading put your remarks and when my turn comes then i will also put my remarks whatever my mind through

    ਰਾਗਮਾਲਾ॥ Rosary of tunes;

    ੴਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ॥

    God is one. He is realized by guru’s grace.

    ਰਾਗ ਏਕ ਸੰਗਿ ਪੰਚ ਬਰੰਗਨ॥ਸੰਗਿ ਅਲਾਪਹਿ ਆਠਉ ਨੰਦਨ॥

    There is one tune (God). The whole world sings His

    praise in classical Tunes in the group of five;

    ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਰਾਗ ਭੈਰਉ ਵੈ ਕਰਹੀ॥

    The first major tune is Raag Bhairao (Devotees tune).


    ਪੰਚ ਰਾਗਨੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਉਚਰਹੀ॥

    It sings the praise of God in a group of five including other sub tunes.

    ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਭੈਰਵੀ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੀ॥

    First sub tune in the group is Bhairavee, and Bilaavalee;

    ਪੁੰਨਿਆ ਕੀ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਬੰਗਲੀ॥

    Your praises are sung in melodious tunes.

    ਪੁਨਿ ਅਸਲੇਖੀ ਕੀ ਭਈ ਬਾਰੀ॥

    Then comes the turn of other truthful tunes;

    ਏਭੈਰਉਕੀਪਾਚਉਨਾਰੀ॥

    These are the five tunes of major tune Bhairao.

    ਪੰਚਮ ਹਰਖ ਦਿਸਾਖ ਸੁਨਾਵਹਿ॥

    All five sing Your praises joyfully in godly tunes.

    ਬੰਗਾਲਮ ਮਧੁ ਮਾਧਵ ਗਾਵਹਿ॥੧॥

    Singing your praises in beautiful tunes full of melody; ||1||

    ਲਲਤ ਬਿਲਾਵਲ ਗਾਵਹੀ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ

    Tunes Lalat and Bilaaval - each have their own melody.

    ਅਸਟ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਭੈਰਵ ਕੇ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਗਾਇਨ ਪਾਤ੍ਰ॥੧॥

    Everyone is the son of Bhairav (God). Sings your praise in devotion! ||1||

    ਦੁਤੀਆ ਮਾਲਕਉਸਕ ਆਲਾਪਹਿ॥ਸੰਗਿ ਰਾਗਨੀ ਪਾਚਉ ਥਾਪਹਿ॥

    The second major tune is Maalakausak (Acquired knowledge)

    also sings Your praises in the group of five tunes!

    ਗੋਂਡਕਰੀ ਅਰੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ॥ਗੰਧਾਰੀ ਸੀਹੁਤੀ ਉਚਾਰੀ॥

    Gondakaree and Dev Gandhaaree sing Your praises in loud voice.

    ਧਨਾਸਰੀਏਪਾਚਉਗਾਈ॥ਮਾਲਰਾਗਕਉਸਕਸੰਗਿਲਾਈ॥

    Including Dhanaasaree and maal raag in the group of Maalakausak;

    ਮਾਰੂ ਮਸਤ ਅੰਗ ਮੇਵਾਰਾ॥ਪ੍ਰਬਲ ਚੰਡ ਕਉਸਕ ਉਭਾਰਾ॥

    Maaroo raag is the devotional tune of Maiwar sung emotionally in the group.

    ਖਉ ਖਟ ਅਉ ਭਉਰਾਨਦ ਗਾਏ॥ਅਸਟ ਮਾਲ ਕਉਸਕ ਸੰਗਿ ਲਾਏ॥੧॥

    The devotional singers sing their best. Every

    one is the son of Maalakausak (God). ||1||

    ਪੁਨਿ ਆਇਅਉ ਹਿੰਡੋਲੁ ਪੰਚ ਨਾਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਅਸਟ ਸੁਤ॥

    Then comes Hindol (joy); all sing Your praises in the group of five.

    ਉਠਹਿ ਤਾਨ ਕਲੋਲ ਗਾਇਨ ਤਾਰ ਮਿਲਾਵਹੀ॥੧॥

    They sing in harmony to the best of their ability. ||1||

    ਤੇਲੰਗੀ ਦੇਵਕਰੀ ਆਈ॥ਬਸੰਤੀ ਸੰਦੂਰ ਸੁਹਾਈ॥

    Then, comes Taylangee the music of gods; it is sung

    with the best attire including saffron on forehead.

    ਸਰਸ ਅਹੀਰੀ ਲੈ ਭਾਰਜਾ॥ਸੰਗਿ ਲਾਈ ਪਾਂਚਉ ਆਰਜਾ॥

    The universe blooms and becomes green O brother;

    here also Your praises are sung in the group of five tunes.

    ਸੁਰਮਾਨੰਦ ਭਾਸਕਰ ਆਏ॥ਚੰਦ੍ਬਿੰਬ ਮੰਗਲਨ ਸੁਹਾਏ॥

    The singers come well dressed wearing mascara, scent of

    sandalwood on the forehead and wearing the sacred thread.

    ਸਰਸ ਬਾਨ ਅਉ ਆਹਿ ਬਿਨੋਦਾ॥ਗਾਵਹਿ ਸਰਸ ਬਸੰਤ ਕਮੋਦਾ॥

    The whole atmosphere fills with joy, they sing Your

    praises in tune basant with musical instruments.

    ਅਸਟ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਮੈ ਕਹੇ ਸਵਾਰੀ॥

    God pervades in every one.

    ਪੁਨਿ ਆਈ ਦੀਪਕ ਕੀ ਬਾਰੀ॥੧॥

    Then comes the turn of Deepak (enlightenment); ||1||

    ਕਛੇਲੀ ਪਟ ਮੰਜਰੀ ਟੋਡੀ ਕਹੀ ਅਲਾਪਿ॥

    Todee raag is sung with lot of zest in the group of five tunes.

    ਕਾਮੋਦੀ ਅਉ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਦੀਪਕ ਕੇ ਥਾਪਿ॥੧॥

    Goojree raag is sung with musical instruments in the group major raag Deepak. ||1||

    ਕਾਲੰਕਾ ਕੁੰਤਲ ਅਉ ਰਾਮਾ॥ਕਮਲ ਕੁਸਮ ਚੰਪਕ ਕੇ ਨਾਮਾ॥

    The ugly the beautiful and the devotees of God;

    all are the children of the same flower The God.

    ਗਉਰਾ ਅਉ ਕਾਨਰਾ ਕਲਿਆਨਾ ॥ਅਸਟ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਦੀਪਕ ਕੇ ਜਾਨਾ॥੧॥

    Raag Gauraa, Kaanaraa and Kaylaanaa; all are the son of Deepak (God). ||1||

    ਸਭ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਿਰੀ ਰਾਗ ਵੈ ਗਾਵਹ॥ਪਾਂਚਉ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਰੰਗਨ ਲਾਵਹਿ॥

    All join and sing Siree Raag (tune to honor God) that also is sung in the group of five.

    ਬੈਰਾਰੀ ਕਰਨਾਟੀ ਧਰੀ॥ਗਵਰੀ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਆਸਾ ਵਰੀ

    Bairaaree is the tune of Karnaatka. The Aasaavaree is sung in a simple tune.

    ਤਿਹ ਪਾਛੈ ਸਿੰਧਵੀ ਅਲਾਪੀ॥ਸਿਰੀ ਰਾਗ ਸਿਉ ਪਾਂਚਉ ਥਾਪੀ॥੧॥

    Then follows raag Sindhavee; It is also the part of the group of tune siree Raag. ||1||

    ਸਾਲੂ ਸਾਰਗ ਸਾਗਰਾ ਅਉਰ ਗੋਂਡ ਗੰਭੀਰ॥

    Deep tune Raag Saarag is sung in deep devotion and raag Gond is serious.

    ਅਸਟ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਗ ਕੇ ਗੁੰਡ ਕੁੰਭ ਹਮੀਰ॥੧॥

    Everyone is the son of Siree Raag (God) whether

    named Gund, Kumb or Hameer. ||1||

    ਖਸਟਮ ਮੇਘ ਰਾਗ ਵੈ ਗਾਵਹਿ॥ਪਾਂਚਉ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਰੰਗਨ ਲਾਵਹਿ॥

    The sixth major tune is Maygh Raag. (tune of guru`s grace)

    Also sung in the group of five tunes!

    ਸੋਰਠਿ ਗੋਂਡ ਮਲਾਰੀ ਧੁਨੀ॥

    The tunes Sorath, Gond, and Malaar are part of Mayagh raag.

    ਪੁਨਿ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਆਸਾ ਗੁਨ ਗੁਨੀ॥

    Including Aasaa that is sung in slow rytham in the head;

    ਊਚੈ ਸੁਰਿ ਸੂਹਉ ਪੁਨਿ ਕੀਨ॥ਮੇਘ ਰਾਗ ਸਿਉ ਪਾਚਉ ਚੀਨੀ॥੧॥

    All sung in devotion loudly and form the

    part of the group of five the Maygh Raag. ||1||

    ਬੈਰਾਧਰ ਗਜਧਰ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ॥ਜਬਲੀਧਰ ਨਟ ਅਉ ਜਲਧਾਰਾ॥

    The salty land, jungles, the religious shrines, the

    land of warriors, land of magicians and the land of rivers;

    ਪੁਨਿ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਸੰਕਰ ਅਉ ਸਿਆਮਾ॥

    Everywhere the devotees and the prophets sing Your praises.

    ਮੇਘ ਰਾਗ ਪੁਤ੍ਰਨ ਕੇ ਨਾਮਾ॥੧॥

    Those are the names of the sons of God the Maygh Raag.

    ਖਸਟ ਰਾਗ ਉਨਿ ਗਾਏ ॥ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਾਗਨੀ ਤੀਸ

    Six major tunes have been sung including the sub tunes

    totaling thirty in Your admiration. One more added later.

    ਸਭੈ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਰਾਗੰਨ ਕੇਅਠਾਰਹ ਦਸ ਬੀਸ॥੧॥੧॥

    All are the son of the Creator of music (God)

    whether eighteen, ten or twenty. ||1||1||
     
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  15. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Swarn Ji, yours is a fascinating interpretation of the Raag Mala. I admit, I haven't thought of it like this before. This kind of translation makes much more sense.

    Where did you get the information you've added for each major Raag? I hope I've listed them correctly here:
    • The first major tune is Raag Bhairao (Devotees tune).
    • The second major tune is Maalakausak (Acquired knowledge)
    • Then comes Hindol (joy); all sing Your praises in the group of five.
    • Then comes the turn of Deepak (enlightenment);
    • All join and sing Siree Raag (tune to honor God)
    • The sixth major tune is Maygh Raag. (tune of guru`s grace)
     
  16. Ishna

    Ishna
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  17. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Further, how many of the raags listed above are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? I'm having trouble finding them...
     
  18. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    firstly it is in sggs, that means it is gurbani. if it is gurbani then it has no concern to how many raags are in raag mala or in sggs. this is how the guru praises God. it is a master piece. let me assert this. those who say it is not part of sggs or not gurbani or not spiritual they are not spiritual themselves, no matter what name they have or who they are called. i have lot to say on this yet. i will say later.
    i have a humble request to the readers, that they should contemplate gurbani from their own mind. struggle with it first. then to know the meanings of some difficult words refer to mahaan kosh. finally read someone's translation if u want. it will enhance your mind, mental thinking and spirituality as well.
     
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  19. Original

    Original
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    People,
    Greetings !

    Question: Did Guru Gobind Singh confer Guruship upon SGGSJ [1430 pages] or not ?

    Moving away from it all and concurring with my learned friend Swarn Singh, I'll try n give overview to move forward, but first; Sikhism is a system of belief built around the concept of "guru" n "disciple".

    Question: are you a disciple and is SGGSJ your guru ? If affirmative then believe in "shabd" [guru] and not configuration.

    Overview

    Harkiran Kaur has done a good job by getting closer to the truth, that is, "harmonic resonance of the universe". Everything is "vibration" [meaning, waheguru]. The human body is a field of invisible vibrations, musical notes on a violin string.

    Bani = sound = shabd = music = raag. This is thus confirmed -
    ॥ ਸਭੈ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਰਾਗੰਨ ਕੇ ਅਠਾਰਹ ਦਸ ਬੀਸ ॥੧॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1430}
    । ਅਠਾਰਹ ਦਸ ਬੀਸ = 18+10+20=48.

    Note, 6 raag = Bhario [ਭੈਰਉ], Malakoos [ਮਾਲਕਉਸ], Hindhol [ਹਿੰਡੋਲ], Deepak [ਦੀਪਕ], Sriraag [ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗ], Maag [ਮੇਘ]= 6

    Each raag has 5 raag'nehian [ਹਰੇਕ ਰਾਗ ਦੀਆਂ ਪੰਜ ਰਾਗਨੀਆਂ] = 6 raag x 5 raag'nehian

    sub-total: raag'nehian = 30

    Each raag has 8 sons, therefore, 6 raags x 8 sons = 48

    Total = 6+30+48=84

    The significance of the 84 need not be discussed here, but suffice to say, that SGGSJ has 31 Raag, in addition to another 6 composed in conjunction with other raags making it a total of 37.

    The number 37 is important only insofar "creation" be solely n wholly a numerical concept rather than genetically evolved matter [Harkiran Ji touches it above]. That is to say, it is not to be found amongst the DNA, but in the genetic code of numbers because numbers don't lie. Many philosophers have argued, note ably Bertrand Russell, who said, 'search for truth using mathematical n geomaterical theorems rather than philosophical n metaphysical axioms' for they are permanent n constant and like any creator you sign your work, the signature of the creator will be found within numbers. Signature of the creator is not in the DNA, but in the genetic code and that code is 37 [read Rumers transformation].

    Guru Nanak studied the Vedas thoroughly n properly and gave humankind the missing link, the message. This message is in 37 raags, make what you will !
     
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  20. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    all above is not understood to me and is beyond my thinking. but i will put one poem which i wrote today about concept i follow.
    ਗੁਰੂਦੁਆਰ

    ਗੁਰੂਦੁਆਰ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪਾਠਸਾਲ, ਗਿਆਨੀ ਵਿਖਿਆਤਾ
    ,ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੱਚਾ ਪਾਤਸਾਹ, ਪੜ੍ਹ ਸੁਣ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਪਛਾਤਾ
    ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦ, ਹਰਿ ਆਪ ਧਿਆਇਆ, ਬਾਵਨ ਜੁਗ ਬੈਠ ਹਨ੍ਹੇਰੇ, ਧਿਆਇ ਜ਼ਾਹਰ ਹੋਇ ਆਇਆ
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਧ ਜਾਣੈ, ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਵਚੋਲਾ ਤਾ ਕਾ,
    ਹਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ, ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਧਿਆਇ, ਸੱਚਾ ਬਿਰਦ ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੈ ਸਿੱਖਨ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਾਇ
    ਆਪ ਜਪੈ ਨਾਮ ਨਿੱਤ, ਸਿੱਖਨ ਸੇਵਣ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਾਤਾ
    ਰੱਬ ਇੱਕ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਗ ਇੱਕ, ਸਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਜਾਣੈ, ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਪਵਿੱਤ ਸੱਚ ਸੁੱਚ, ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਵਖਾਣੈ
    ਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝੋਂ ਗਤਿ ਨਹੀਂ, ਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਕਾ ਦਾਤਾ,
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰੁੱਖ ਗੁਰ ਪਾਰਜਾਤ, ਸਾ ਸੱਚੇ ਫਲ ਲਾਵੈ, ਚਿੱਤ ਲਾਇ ਸਬਦ ਕਮਾਇ, ਗੁਰੂ ਚਿੱਤ ਵਸ ਜਾਵੈ,
    ਚਿੱਤ ਲਾਇ ਸਬਦ ਕਮਾਇ, ਨਿਰਭੌ ਪੁਰਖ ਵਿਧਾਤਾ
    ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਲਿਆਗਰ, ਮਹਿਕ ਭਰੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ, ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ਚਿੱਤ ਲਾਇ, ਕਰ ਕੈ ਚਿੱਤ ਇਕਾਗਰ
    ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਹਰਿ ਮਨ ਵਸੈ, ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਾਸਾ
    ਗੁਰ ਪਾਰਸ ਮਲ ਹਰਨ, ਸਾ ਸੰਗ ਲੋਹ ਬਣੈ ਸਵਰਨ, ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਵਣ, ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਜੀ ਚਿੱਤ ਧਰਨ
    ਚਿੱਤ ਲਾਇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਧਿਆਇ, ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਗ ਜਾਤਾ
    ਚੰਦ ਚਕੋਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਜਿਉਂ, ਸਾਈ ਸੇਵਕ ਗੁਰੂ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ, ਆਪ ਮਰੈ ਮਨ ਮਾਰ, ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਕ ਹੋਇ ਮੀਤ
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੰਗ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਗਤ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਸੰਗ ਮਨ ਰਾਤਾ
    ਘਨ ਘੋਰ ਬੱਦਲ ਛਾਏ, ਚਾਤ੍ਰਿਕ ਚਿਰਤ ਕੁਰਲਾਏ, ਪਾਵੈ ਜੋ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਮੁੱਖ ਇਕ ਬੂੰਦ ਨ ਪਾਏ
    ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਫਲ ਲਾਵੈ, ਖਾਇ ਭੁੰਚੈ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਤਾ
    ਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਵਕਾਸ ਵਖਾਵੈ, ਸੇਵਕ ਸਾ ਮਾਰਗ ਜਾਵੈ, ਮਾਰਗ ਧਾਵੈ ਚਿੱਤ ਲਾਵੈ, ਜੋ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਸਾ ਫਲ ਪਾਵੈ
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਗਾਵੈ ਸਿੱਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਚਰਨ ਧਰ ਮਾਥਾ
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਗ ਜਾਣੈ, ਸਿੱਖਨ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਵਖਾਣੈ, ਸਿੱਖ ਸਖਾ ਸਾ ਮਾਰਗ ਪਾਵੈ, ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣ ਸਮਾਣੈ
    ਬੈਂਸ ਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭੇਦ ਨਹਿੰ, ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਵਿਧਾਤਾ
     
  21. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Original Ji,

    You and I think very much alike :)

    One quote I've always liked:

    “All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves." Bill Hicks

     
    #20 Harkiran Kaur, Oct 26, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015

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