Question For Kala Afghana Supporters

[Inder singh]

<<<am new, I dont know but how can you judge people so badly? Seems you are the only Sikh who understands all about Guru panth. In another post you called some one fool who happened to disagree with you, how can you openly insult others who are in disgreement with you? Sikh should have more tolerance than any one as per Gurbani teachings that is what I have learnt. When MOD delete your insulting comments, you play cry baby

>>>>

have you got something other to say than to launch personal attack.I believe you should contribute in light of your knowledge on the subject under discussion.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Giani ji

You have digressed now.You left the topic of kala afghana and Dasam Granth.

My mails are being censoered and not even posted because of following

1) That egroup is intolerant to exposure of tyranny on sikhs in India in 1980s and 1990s.
2) They name call Bhindrewale and justify Blue star operation.

3) They do not tolerate criticism of India as they thinl sikhs brought it own themselves.

4) They revere kala afghana and his lies about sikhism.

5)They quote from Dasam Granth distorted meanings showing they have no knowledge of Dasam Granth.

6) The moderator does not know much about sikhis and concepts of Guru Granth and guru panth.When corrected censor those portions of emails thinking as insult to him in public.

Now comimng to the real topic

1) You know kala fghana is a convicted sex offender.Why are stating here otherwise?A sikh does not support a wrong man.

2) Have you raed Dasam Granth?

dear inder singh,

IMHO...the MODS are being very fair - they are asking ofr COMPLETE QUOTES ( not just one liners out of context), they are asking for specific proofs, Original writings, dates etc. Provide all that and your mails will get full exposure as was before - i feel they have tolerated as far as they can. anyway I am NOT a MOD and thus bystander.(ordinary reader just like you) this is my own opinion.
2. Sardar Gurbaksh Singh JI is NOT the subject of discussion. His WRITINGS are. I am not alone in asking that ONLY his writings be discussed - whats wrong in what he said ?? Prove that by quoting him and then GURBANI from SGGS. (Have YOU read all the ten books he wrote ??)

3.Yes I have a copy of dsm granth and have read "IT" from cover to cover. Please see Video avilable on SinghSabhaInternational Canada website where the Dsm Granth is SHOWN and discussed. Guru Gobind Singh NEVER wrote those parts...no way. anyway dsm garnth is available online together with English translation so anyone could read it - not thta difficult anymore with the Internet and one can decide for onesself.

Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Mkm writes me as a supporter of Dasam Granth
If I hurt your feelings I am sorry, what I mean was that all Sikhs do not believe that Dasam Guru ji wrote Dasm Granth all. So far, sikhs who say it is all written by Guru ji, have failed to refute the points some Sikhs debated.

.He should know that every sikh is a supporter of Dasam Granth.sikh rehat merayda supports dasam granth.So i am not alone.
That is not happening in this thread. By simply saying, debate questions are not answered. Now a days a lot of maryada is not practicedby the Sikhs though Sikhs boast about it.

I wrote that moderator does not have much knowledge of concept of Guru granth and Guru panth.How do you know that moderator knows?
I am new, I dont know but how can you judge people so badly? Seems you are the only Sikh who understands all about Guru panth. In another post you called some one fool who happened to disagree with you, how can you openly insult others who are in disgreement with you? Sikh should have more tolerance than any one as per Gurbani teachings that is what I have learnt. When MOD delete your insulting comments, you play cry baby:8-

Beautifully said MKM ji. You are a beautiful SIKH of my Beautiful GURU JI.
Sikhs are beautiful inside and outside...thye are tolerant, considerate..loving, forgiving...MITTH BOLRRA JI Har Saajn suami mora...says Guru Arjun Ji sahib..but just look at how many sikhs insult and berate other fellow sikhs just because of a few disagreements ?? Sitting on the Hot Plate Guru Ji says..Tera Bhanna meetha lageh and more IMPORTANTLY..DOSH NAAH KHAOON DEVOHN..I DONT BLAME ANYONE !!!! we should be more like our GURU...
Just one incident from history..Sajjan Thugh was ahorrible MURDERER and ROBBER..he had made a MOSQUE and a MANDIR on his property..wore shining holy clothes and robbed and murdered both Hindus and Muslims who fell into his trap of taking shelter in his dharamsala..GURU NANAK JI just said one shabd...OOJAL KEHA CHILKKANNA....and after that NOT A SINGLE PERSON ever repeated a single word baout the ROBBER, the MURDERER, the EVIL..sajjan THUGGH..his EVIL PAST was wiped OFF in one instant..BUT look at us we keep on DREDGING UP other Sikh's PAST, convicted this and convicted that..blah blah blah..even DISTORT their Names SINGH and drop the Guru Given TITLE of SINGH etc etc. I may be wrong, i amy be alone..BUT SORRY i WONT do that to a fellow Human being..let alone a SINGH of my GURU.
Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[Inder singh]

dear inder singh,

IMHO...the MODS are being very fair - they are asking ofr COMPLETE QUOTES ( not just one liners out of context), they are asking for specific proofs, Original writings, dates etc. Provide all that and your mails will get full exposure as was before - i feel they have tolerated as far as they can. anyway I am NOT a MOD and thus bystander.(ordinary reader just like you) this is my own opinion.
2. Sardar Gurbaksh Singh JI is NOT the subject of discussion. His WRITINGS are. I am not alone in asking that ONLY his writings be discussed - whats wrong in what he said ?? Prove that by quoting him and then GURBANI from SGGS. (Have YOU read all the ten books he wrote ??)

3.Yes I have a copy of dsm granth and have read "IT" from cover to cover. Please see Video avilable on SinghSabhaInternational Canada website where the Dsm Granth is SHOWN and discussed. Guru Gobind Singh NEVER wrote those parts...no way. anyway dsm garnth is available online together with English translation so anyone could read it - not thta difficult anymore with the Internet and one can decide for onesself.

Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh

Giani jarnail singh ji

Will you please clarify what Mods you are talking about.There is one site whose mod say that it is not essential for a sikh to have identity.They also say that sikhs asked for the injustices of 1980s and 1990s.A psot contradicting that will either be censored or dosallowed.Do you believe in that.

Are you saying that quotes i gave from kala afghana's books are not there in his books?

Giani ji most important of all in sikhism personal character is of paramount importance.Our Gurus say that live sikhi and do not just praech it.In view of that how a sikh can become a thief and sex offender?

Can you quote those parts that you say have not been written by tenth master.People need to have understanding of myths,symbolism a,d metaphors before interpreting Dasam Granth.Does kala afghana has that knowledge?

Singhsabha site is a cptive site of propagandists.Its chief says that yhe has keshas not because he is a sikh.He has those because it is cultural thing.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Inder Singh Ji, Gurfateh.

You have already prejudged people - such as KA doesnt have "knowledge":...and SSI is a "captive site of propogandists" ( whatever THAT means ??)
As such there is not much we can discuss - because i will quote from KA's books and you will say ..KA doesnt have knowledge... I will cite the SSI essays kathas..and you will say those people are captive/propoganda etc.....
SO lets agree to DISAGREE. You can go on beleiving that Bachittar Natak ( now called dsm granth) is 100% guru Kirt..I can go on beleiving that ONLY 1% of that is Guru Kirt and 99% is extraneous stuff not written by Guru Ji. Churning WATER doesnt make LASSEE or GHEE...the TRUE SAINTS eat the "GHEE/MAKHANNEE" and the rest drink the lassee... I am NOT a "saint" BUT I have tasted the Makhnnee and its in the TRUE GURU - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee ONLY.I have NO TIME/INCLINATION to go anywhere else simply becasue the SGGS Makhnnee is the Best and out of this world..Jion Gunggeh mithayee Khayyee is Guru Ji describes this sensation....


Warmest Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[Inder singh]

Inder Singh Ji, Gurfateh.

You have already prejudged people - such as KA doesnt have "knowledge":...and SSI is a "captive site of propogandists" ( whatever THAT means ??)
As such there is not much we can discuss - because i will quote from KA's books and you will say ..KA doesnt have knowledge... I will cite the SSI essays kathas..and you will say those people are captive/propoganda etc.....
SO lets agree to DISAGREE. You can go on beleiving that Bachittar Natak ( now called dsm granth) is 100% guru Kirt..I can go on beleiving that ONLY 1% of that is Guru Kirt and 99% is extraneous stuff not written by Guru Ji. Churning WATER doesnt make LASSEE or GHEE...the TRUE SAINTS eat the "GHEE/MAKHANNEE" and the rest drink the lassee... I am NOT a "saint" BUT I have tasted the Makhnnee and its in the TRUE GURU - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee ONLY.I have NO TIME/INCLINATION to go anywhere else simply becasue the SGGS Makhnnee is the Best and out of this world..Jion Gunggeh mithayee Khayyee is Guru Ji describes this sensation....


Warmest Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh

Giani ji

i have not prejudged anybody.I have read SSI Hardev shergill's writing in his bulletin and posted it on one site also.

Giani ji please put the writing here what you don't consider Guru kirat from Dasam Granth.Let us see how it is not.Guru Panth has accepted Dasam Granth as Guru kirat.Who are others not to believe in that.

Propaganda against it is not going to help.Now sikhs will clarify and expose those who have been writing derogatory about Dasam Granth

 

[Tejwant Singh]

<<<<<Your response still does not answer the original question of questioning that you objected to. Why would he name a book Dasam Granth?

Did Guru Gobind Singh ji ask us to do Ardaas the way we do and did he add his poetry/bani to our Nitnem? If he did, Can you pls give us some references about it?>>>>

This was named as Bachoitra natak.Then it was Dasam Granth.Name has no bearing on the internal compositions that reamained same.SGGS was pothi sahib,aad granth and then Sri guru Granth sahib.

Ist pauri of ardas was written by Guru ji and forms part of Chandi di Vaar.Ardas was there in Guru ji's time.Some persons have tablets of Ardas of that period.

Inder Singh ji,

I asked you to give me the references of your claims which you have not been able to give. Regarding the contents of Dasam Granth whether they are written by Guru Gobind Singh ji or not has been discussed in all Sikh forums including this one in great details You will be able to find all the threads in the search section about this. In fact I re- posted my response based on the thread discussed earlier in this forum.

But my question is more about Sikhi concept that you objected too initially in my earlier post about questioning and have not gotten the response from you yet. Please explain your claim that in Sikhi we are not allowed to question as you mentioned in the response.

Inder Singh ji, let's discuss and interact so all of us can learn from each other. After all that is why we call ourselves Sikhs. Mud slinging or prejudging others rather than debating is not a Sikhi way. Don't you agree?

Hoping to learn a lot from you.

Tejwant

 

[Inder singh]

Inder Singh ji,

I asked you to give me the references of your claims which you have not been able to give. Regarding the contents of Dasam Granth whether they are written by Guru Gobind Singh ji or not has been discussed in all Sikh forums including this one in great details You will be able to find all the threads in the search section about this. In fact I re- posted my response based on the thread discussed earlier in this forum.

But my question is more about Sikhi concept that you objected too initially in my earlier post about questioning and have not gotten the response from you yet. Please explain your claim that in Sikhi we are not allowed to question as you mentioned in the response.

Inder Singh ji, let's discuss and interact so all of us can learn from each other. After all that is why we call ourselves Sikhs. Mud slinging or prejudging others rather than debating is not a Sikhi way. Don't you agree?

Hoping to learn a lot from you.

Tejwant

Tejwant ji

Can you be specific about what erefrence you want? Bachitra natak granth is written in the Dasam Granth itself.

A sikh is a learner of Guru.He does not doubt the philosophy of Gurus writings.There is internal evidence in Dasam Granth that it is written by tenth master.

Then there are two manuscripts of 17th century and copies are avaialable with a friend of mine in USA.

Inder s

 

[mkm]

Beautifully said MKM ji. You are a beautiful SIKH of my Beautiful GURU JI.
Sikhs are beautiful inside and outside...thye are tolerant, considerate..loving, forgiving...MITTH BOLRRA JI Har Saajn suami mora...says Guru Arjun Ji sahib..but just look at how many sikhs insult and berate other fellow sikhs just because of a few disagreements ?? Sitting on the Hot Plate Guru Ji says..Tera Bhanna meetha lageh and more IMPORTANTLY..DOSH NAAH KHAOON DEVOHN..I DONT BLAME ANYONE !!!! we should be more like our GURU...
Just one incident from history..Sajjan Thugh was ahorrible MURDERER and ROBBER..he had made a MOSQUE and a MANDIR on his property..wore shining holy clothes and robbed and murdered both Hindus and Muslims who fell into his trap of taking shelter in his dharamsala..GURU NANAK JI just said one shabd...OOJAL KEHA CHILKKANNA....and after that NOT A SINGLE PERSON ever repeated a single word baout the ROBBER, the MURDERER, the EVIL..sajjan THUGGH..his EVIL PAST was wiped OFF in one instant..BUT look at us we keep on DREDGING UP other Sikh's PAST, convicted this and convicted that..blah blah blah..even DISTORT their Names SINGH and drop the Guru Given TITLE of SINGH etc etc. I may be wrong, i amy be alone..BUT SORRY i WONT do that to a fellow Human being..let alone a SINGH of my GURU.
Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh

I appreciate your compliment, I may not deserve that.

Story you have quoted is very nice to learn some thing if one slips away. Thanks !!!!!!!

 

[spnadmin]

I appreciate your compliment, I may not deserve that.

Story you have quoted is very nice to learn some thing if one slips away. Thanks !!!!!!!

You know what? mkm ji and Gyani ji -- You are teaching me to reflect on my own lack of patience and forgiveness. I have a spiritual debt to both of you. It has been building up over the past several days.

 

[mkm]

Hi mkm! I'm kind of new here too and I too, was a little shocked at first because I love Sikhi so much I had sort of glorified Sikhs in my mind. Then I had to shake myself and remember that we're all human and this is an internet forum. On the whole, I think you'll find this the most respectful, forgiving, understanding internet forum anywhere. People have debates and personalities come out but in the end they always support each other and try to understand even the deepest differences.

Thanks for your input!

Your support is appreciable. I agree too
Thanks

 

[mkm]

You know what? mkm ji and Gyani ji -- You are teaching me to reflect on my own lack of patience and forgiveness. I have a spiritual debt to both of you. It has been building up over the past several days.

How can we filled with limitations can teach ,it is the feeling you have expressed will surely take you to higher state of mind.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Bhagat singh

You need to understand the difference between sarbloh and dasam granth. I am talking about Dasam granth.a fool will not understand what i am talking because he has not read anything.

They are miscreants who call this bani as {censored} kavita.Are you not aware of hukamnama of akal takhat.Shame on you for putting such derogatory worded videos here.

Did you watch the video? If not? Ignore the name of the video, watch it and analyze its contents not the name! Shame on you for not doing that!
If you did watch it, which I doubt you did, then analyze it. You can start by answering... What point is the guy trying to make? Why is he saying that? Why has he named the video as such? Is he right? Are his translations correct? If yes? Then do you still believe that Dasam Granth is written by Guru Gobind SIngh? Why? Why not? ... etc.
Here's the link once again:So called Dasam Granth or {censored} Kavita

So it took 2 decades for Guru Gobind to write Dasam Granth?
How many decades to write Sarbloh granth?

 

[Inder singh]

Did you watch the video? If not? Ignore the name of the video, watch it and analyze its contents not the name! Shame on you for not doing that!
If you did watch it, which I doubt you did, then analyze it. You can start by answering... What point is the guy trying to make? Why is he saying that? Why has he named the video as such? Is he right? Are his translations correct? If yes? Then do you still believe that Dasam Granth is written by Guru Gobind SIngh? Why? Why not? ... etc.
Here's the link once again:So called Dasam Granth or {censored} Kavita

So it took 2 decades for Guru Gobind to write Dasam Granth?
How many decades to write Sarbloh granth?

I have wayched the video.It is worst form of propaganda.*** on you for relying on second hand sources of biased persons and having no point to forward yourself.



I reuest the administrators that such uncivilized language should be purged as it relates to bani.

 

[spnadmin]

I reuest the administrators that such uncivilized language should be purged as it relates to bani.
Speaking as a moderator/not a participant. See post 74.

The term you object to is in the title of the video. It is not against forum rules to report the title of something like a video clip.

Did you watch the video? If not? Ignore the name of the video, watch it and analyze its contents not the name! Shame on you for not doing that!
If you did watch it, which I doubt you did, then analyze it. You can start by answering... What point is the guy trying to make? Why is he saying that? Why has he named the video as such? Is he right? Are his translations correct? If yes? Then do you still believe that Dasam Granth is written by Guru Gobind SIngh? Why? Why not? ... etc.
Here's the link once again:So called Dasam Granth or {censored} Kavita

So it took 2 decades for Guru Gobind to write Dasam Granth?
How many decades to write Sarbloh granth?

Once again, before we accuse individuals, forum members, of making any kind of derogatory statement, including but not limited to statements against Gurus or Scripture, let us check first to see who said what.

It is a fact that the video is so titled with words {censored} kavita. Reporting a fact is not against forum rules.
Moderators will handle real occurrences based on facts. Thank you.

 

[Inder singh]

Aad002

Very strange reply from a moderator of a sikh site.Have you seen the video?If not see it and then decide what type of video is it.

It is a typical video of propaganda and is very low quality presentation.Tommorow if someone derogatory language about SGGS ji and post it here.Will you allow that.That shows bankruptcy of thought process.

 

[spnadmin]

Aad002

Very strange reply from a moderator of a sikh site.Have you seen the video?If not see it and then decide what type of video is it.

It is a typical video of propaganda and is very low quality presentation.Tommorow if someone derogatory language about SGGS ji and post it here.Will you allow that.That shows bankruptcy of thought process.

Forum rules will always be enforced. We cannot enforce SPN rules on the Google video web site.

 

[Inder singh]

Forum rules will always be enforced. We cannot enforce SPN rules on the YouTube web site.

in the past you were deleting posts at the drop of a hat even though they were not using uncivilized language.Most of these posts pertained to a particular moderator.

You have no rules for the control of rogue language of a scripture that forms the basis sikh rehat maryada and sikh identity.can you post your forum rules for us to see.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Inder Singh ji,

Let's stop this rhetoric by judging the Moderators. Let us talk about Sikhi.

Let me ask you once again. Why is it wrong to question things in Sikhi? and as I have asked you before, please give me some references from SGGS that state your claim.

Once again, let us try to be what our name-Sikh- says we should be and focus on seeking.

Tejwant

 

[spnadmin]

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