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Question for Kala Afghana Supporters

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Archived_Member1, Nov 29, 2007.

  1. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
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    what banis do you recite each day?

    do you do ardaas?

    do you do jaap sahib? chaupai sahib? tav prassad sawyai? rehras sahib?

    when you took amrit, what did your panj piyare instruct you to recite daily and do you feel it necessary to follow their advice?

    sorry if this is offensive, but i'm new to this so i don't understand how one does the nitnem banis without accepting the words of dasam patshah as gurbani.
     
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  3. Sherab

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    Soem of them skip over the ones by Guru Gobind Singh ji. Just what I hear.
     
  4. Archived_Member1

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    right. that leave, what... japji sahib and sohila? and parts of rehras sahib?

    the sikh rehet maryada specifies panj banis we're supposed to recite daily. if you "sikp over" the ones by the tenth master, that leaves you with two and a half, and you can't recite ardas either.

    so basically you have to break rehat in order to follow kala afghana. which i guess is fine, because he's excommunicated anyway. :)

    i just wanted to hear it from the keyboard of someone who does this. i want to understand how they justify it. :)
     
  5. Sherab

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    Technically though, i think you could do anand Sahib (by the 3rd Guru), Jap ji Sahib and Jaap Sahib - leaving out any part they feel is to much like "hindu non-sense", for example - stanzas in praise of Durga as the supreme God as found in Dasam Granth.

    I wonder how they also defend the view that since God is in everyone (assuming they follow what is in Jap-ji,a s God as present in everyone...), how they can think "hindu doctrine" is present in Dasam Granth....
     
  6. Archived_Member1

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    they don't do Jaap sahib, because it's 100% written by Guru Gobind Singh ji... and who are we to choose which parts of gurbani are to be "left out" anyway? it takes a lot of ego for someone to think they know better than Guru sahib what we should be reciting in our daily prayers... :)

    i find the whole thing bizarre...
     
  7. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

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    I don't know what purpose they would have in praying at all, since Kala Afghana doesn't believe in the soul, heaven, hell, reincarnation, jams, or afterlife. So it makes sense if they don't believe in half the nitenam banis. According to KA's stated beliefs, Guru is just a man, and therefore capable of making mistakes. When stating he doesn't believe in what is written even in Gurbani of SGGS Ji, one has to wonder what kind of religion it is. And of course, why take amrit, as KA received twice, when you do not believe in amrit, except as public show to win acceptance among Sikhs, like the intelligence officer he is.
     
  8. Inder singh

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    Jasleen Kaur is whole Dasam Granth is written by Tenth master.I have read it and found internal evidence that it is composed by tenth master.

    These people are not sikhs.They are ex communists who have joined sikhism.
     
  9. Inder singh

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    His books are on the lines of Bhag singh Ambala's book Dasam Granth nirnay and also on the lines of "Hum Hindu Hain" written by Late Rajju Bhaiya who ws chief of RSS.

    In all probabilt books are written in Hathras,UP by RSS and intelligence people.Kala afghana name is used.
     
  10. Archived_Member1

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    i have to disagree with your last statement. in my limited experience, those who become Sikhs by choice are usually more willing to follow Guru sahib. otherwise, why convert in the first place?

    i would rephrase it as, "they are ex-sikhs who became communists". :)
     
  11. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

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    I think he is referring to GOI intelligence agents who are atheistic and join Sikhism in order to corrupt it.
     
  12. Archived_Member1

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    ahh, that makes more sense.

    i was thinking of the younger generation of confused sikhs who follow those called ‘tankhaiya’ as some sort of "inspirational" leader. :)
     
  13. BhagatSingh

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    Not all of us, buddy.
     
  14. BhagatSingh

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    I am not a fan of Kala Afghana but I dont believe that Dasam Granth is Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani. So, Ill answer anyway. :)
    I don't recite any of them.
    Yes, I say Baba Ji/Waheguru, I have no control over your actions. My ardaas is not going to change your decision, and I shouldn't be asking you for anything, becasue I will not get it if it's not meant for me. Even saying this will not affect you in anyway but I'll feel better if I say it...
    Nope
    I amnot amritdhari and probably won't be taking amrit anymore.
     
  15. Inder singh

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    I am not a fan of Kala Afghana but I dont believe that Dasam Granth is Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani. So, Ill answer anyway. [​IMG]
    Quote:

    What methodolgy you applied for arriving at your decision.Can you let us know?
     
  16. BhagatSingh

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    I have explained in a different thread.
     
  17. Inder singh

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    Let us know what thread you have used to explain that.Have you read dasam Granth?
     
  18. BhagatSingh

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    Dasam Granth - A study, I think. I don't have the link at the moment.
     
  19. carolineislands

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    BhagatSikh ji,

    I too, would like to hear your reasoning for your beliefs. I tried to find the thread in which you explained this but didn't see it. Perhaps you could explain more about it here for those of us who weren't around when it was discussed before.

    If you don't believe Dasam Granth was written by Guru Gobind Singh ji, then do you follow rehat maryada? What about the Khalsa? Where do you stand on that and amrit? How many Sikhs are out there that believe as you do? This is interesting to me because I picked up on quite a few things that seem like contradictions in some of the philosophies concerning these issues from the very beginning of my experience on this forum. And, although I've read more about the political conflicts and oppression of Sikhs in Punjab, especially conflicts with Hindutsva, I have more understanding of the necessity of some of the 'policies' of Sikhism, i.e., the rehat maryada and central government of the religion. But I still am a little disturbed by some things that continue to appear to me as contradictions.

    I readily admit that I am NOT knowledgable about Sikhi and so I don't really want anyone to get offended or emotional about this. I am asking in order to learn. I have heard a couple points of view that support the current structure of the organized religion of Sikhism. I would like to hear the view points of others as well. For instance, I don't quite understand why some Sikhs get so passionately offended at the idea that the current "mainstream" practices have rituals built in when it is so obviously so. I am currently reading the rehat maryada and the rituals are clearly outlined right up on the page... just how to carry the SGGS, how to walk around this way, how to enter, who can sing and who can't and exactly what they can and can't sing, which knee to have up and which to have down etc etc... Now, I am not criticizing this. There is nothing wrong with having this kind of structure if that's what the religion believes in and feels they need. My question is why is it such a cardinal sin to call it what it is? And my other question is if I am the only one who wonders why it doesn't seem to disturb anybody that those are the kinds of things that Guru Nanak spoke against.
    Who says what is and isn't gurbani? Who says what is and isn't Guru Gobind Singh's writing? And why is it such a horrible thing to ask these questions?

    When was rehat maryada written? What is the date? Who made the decisions? What did they base those decisions on?

    When I ask these questions I mainly get the history of oppression of Sikhs by Hindus and have heard that people who question this current structure are mainly undercover Hindu saboteurs out to deconstruct Sikhism from within (or without as the case may be).

    But I just can't believe that wanting to know when rehat maryada was written, by whom, and by whose authority should be a taboo question. I also don't think it should be taboo to say that it seems to conflict with the message of Sikhi. Politics aside - I just would like to have my questions answered. I am not trying to align myself with Hindutsva -- I just want to know if rehat maryada was something that came from the guru's writings or if it is something that was made up later by a group of officials and if so, by what authority did they make the rules up?

    Is there any other authority in other groups or is this the only one? Is it the authority because it holds the majority of followers or does it have another base for authority? Obviously there are Sikhs who don't subscribe to all of it's edicts. What is the basis for their beliefs?

    Thanks!
     
  20. carolineislands

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    Okay, I found some of the information I was looking for re: when rehat maryada was written and by whom.

    I am curious to know about people who don't accept dasam granth as guru's bani because it seems that a LOT of the rehat maryada is based on the belief that dasam granth WAS guru's writing.
     
  21. Inder singh

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    I doubt if bHagat singh knows anything about Dasam Granth.had he known it he won't be searching for some vague thread.
     

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