versus said:
Those "pictures" are all IMAGINARY..would you pay any attention if i sent you a "picture" of your dad/mum which i painted (imaginary) especially when i have absolutley no idea about how they look like..would you HANG that picture in your home or carry it around in your wallet ??..and tell everyone..THAT is my Dad/Mum ??
Why would i depend on Sobha Singh ( or any other painter/artist) to tell me HOW my dad Guru Gobind Singh ji looks like ?? Did Sobha singh see him..does sobha singh know Guru ji perosnally ?/ How accurate is he...NO WAY..to me GURU JI is PERSONAL..any which way I LIKE toi IMAGINE HIM..is my own...
Gyani jarnail Singh
Jazz
SPNer
Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
WGJKK WGJKF
Gyani ji
I totally agree with yourself in your posting.
'why worship the human vessel of a Guru, when the living Guru is amongst us' (refering to the SGGS), Is there any sikh Guru'dawar that there is not a picture of some sort, of a Guru of past, other than the Har Mandier Sahib?
However the khanda, although its origins are somewhat debateable, what is not, is the fact that it sybolises a higher truth, a truthfull living, striaght from the youngest to the most senior of mindframes. Although not strictly part of the identity of a sikh, it certainly today, denotes membership.
Jas
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
All faiths have some symbols like Christians have Cross,Islam may have Cresent and Old Sanatan Dharm may have Om.
But often Shias use Allah as thier symbol,Some protestants may use verse from holy Bible hung.Hindus of Bajrang Dal use Trident(or Trishul).
We can have picture of Darbar Sahib,Verse of Gurbani in our house,Nishan Sahib or what is Called Khanda may have strong spritual or socail message in it.So it is Ok and OK is Ek Oankar also.Scocaily it may mean,Miri and Piri (Two Swrods)ie Spritual aspect is only usefull when it comes in practialc use via political force,But under one God(Khanda or sabre) and Circle represent it as eterneranl unededing and universal truth.
Anyway Picture depctiong old Sikhs or Gurus doing some work from which we can dervie inspiration are OK but at present often they are worshipped.
In the house of Das ,das had some pictures of Gurus but often Hindus and Turbaned Hindus insulted Gurmat by paying respect to them.So das tron them of or Burnt them.In one Gutka of Nanaksar Das had picture of Tenth Nanak,das tore it off.
So no need ot picture in present Kaliyuga as under mammon we our our coming genration may start to worship that.Give more emphsisi on Bani.
All faiths have some symbols like Christians have Cross,Islam may have Cresent and Old Sanatan Dharm may have Om.
But often Shias use Allah as thier symbol,Some protestants may use verse from holy Bible hung.Hindus of Bajrang Dal use Trident(or Trishul).
We can have picture of Darbar Sahib,Verse of Gurbani in our house,Nishan Sahib or what is Called Khanda may have strong spritual or socail message in it.So it is Ok and OK is Ek Oankar also.Scocaily it may mean,Miri and Piri (Two Swrods)ie Spritual aspect is only usefull when it comes in practialc use via political force,But under one God(Khanda or sabre) and Circle represent it as eterneranl unededing and universal truth.
Anyway Picture depctiong old Sikhs or Gurus doing some work from which we can dervie inspiration are OK but at present often they are worshipped.
In the house of Das ,das had some pictures of Gurus but often Hindus and Turbaned Hindus insulted Gurmat by paying respect to them.So das tron them of or Burnt them.In one Gutka of Nanaksar Das had picture of Tenth Nanak,das tore it off.
So no need ot picture in present Kaliyuga as under mammon we our our coming genration may start to worship that.Give more emphsisi on Bani.
bopadum
SPNer
The point that was probably trying to be made about non worship of idols is when you bow and pray towards an image/idol we bow/pray to only the book. We do not potray an image of God as it is not human.
The pictures of Gurus: well if you read old text and see old paintings there is a resemblance to what people like Sohba singh paints (I am sure he has researched this himself before he did the common image of all our gurus). But I do agree they are just representations and its not important. Same has Hindu Gods are representations of God in its many form. One of the differences being we do not bow down to picture of Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh.
Maybe in a way its probably a subconcious social thing to just re-enforce you are in a sikh household as I have never seen any one actually pray towards the oictures of Guru's.
The pictures of Gurus: well if you read old text and see old paintings there is a resemblance to what people like Sohba singh paints (I am sure he has researched this himself before he did the common image of all our gurus). But I do agree they are just representations and its not important. Same has Hindu Gods are representations of God in its many form. One of the differences being we do not bow down to picture of Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh.
Maybe in a way its probably a subconcious social thing to just re-enforce you are in a sikh household as I have never seen any one actually pray towards the oictures of Guru's.
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
It is wrong that Sikhs bow to book.
We are told to only to Bow to Akal.And that can be anywhere and read mathatekna thread for that.
And it is not menadtory anyway to bow to scripture in Gurudwara.
It is wrong that Sikhs bow to book.
We are told to only to Bow to Akal.And that can be anywhere and read mathatekna thread for that.
And it is not menadtory anyway to bow to scripture in Gurudwara.
- Jun 7, 2006
- 1,323
- 145
vijay deep singh ji
do you bow to your elders?
i do
even touch feet of respected elders.
it is part of culture.
matha tekna as a physical act means respect and as a spiritual level means subjugation of our ego to our master.
SGGS is my Master. I bow and respect my master and thank it for the immense spiritual knowledge and correct way to meet my Lord.
i donot believe in carrying Khanda or any other symbol.
physical show offs of spirituality are incorrect as per my understanding..
do you bow to your elders?
i do
even touch feet of respected elders.
it is part of culture.
matha tekna as a physical act means respect and as a spiritual level means subjugation of our ego to our master.
SGGS is my Master. I bow and respect my master and thank it for the immense spiritual knowledge and correct way to meet my Lord.
i donot believe in carrying Khanda or any other symbol.
physical show offs of spirituality are incorrect as per my understanding..
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Well in elders also say Guru Panth when das touches the feet,das think them as manifestation of Akal.We have Three forms of Akal,Akal in universe,In Form of Sabad or verse and in form of Creed.
Well in elders also say Guru Panth when das touches the feet,das think them as manifestation of Akal.We have Three forms of Akal,Akal in universe,In Form of Sabad or verse and in form of Creed.
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Well lets talk about Gurbar Akal first.
That was always and in all and will remain in all.
Then to guide us for Truth Akal took form of Sabad Guru or verbal manifesation.For most that is Guru Granth Sahib Ji but for some they are three ie Dasham Granth Sahib Ji and Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji.
And that verbal manifestaion was delivered to some human bodies and some human bodies live to dem it as thier spirit.That is commiunity or Guru Panth.
If we see verse by Bhatts,Sata and Balwand,Bhai Mardana(some people say that it si by First Master) among other Sikhs one wohm verse were sent by Akal and are recoreded in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.That means that they asumed the status of Guru Sikh ie Sikh at the level of Guru.Then Bhai Gurdas first said that Sikh became Guru and Guru became Sikh.
during Tenth Master this became more cleaer,He took baptism form Guru Panth Khalsa and at least two times did bow to saying of Guru Panth.Bhai Gurdas 2nd perhaps Kesar Singh did say Ape Guru Chela but Sarbloh Granth again supports the same thing.
So Sikhs do have living Guru and that is represented by Sangat or Guru Panth and during baptism we have representation as Panj Piaras ir five beloved one.
Well lets talk about Gurbar Akal first.
That was always and in all and will remain in all.
Then to guide us for Truth Akal took form of Sabad Guru or verbal manifesation.For most that is Guru Granth Sahib Ji but for some they are three ie Dasham Granth Sahib Ji and Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji.
And that verbal manifestaion was delivered to some human bodies and some human bodies live to dem it as thier spirit.That is commiunity or Guru Panth.
If we see verse by Bhatts,Sata and Balwand,Bhai Mardana(some people say that it si by First Master) among other Sikhs one wohm verse were sent by Akal and are recoreded in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.That means that they asumed the status of Guru Sikh ie Sikh at the level of Guru.Then Bhai Gurdas first said that Sikh became Guru and Guru became Sikh.
during Tenth Master this became more cleaer,He took baptism form Guru Panth Khalsa and at least two times did bow to saying of Guru Panth.Bhai Gurdas 2nd perhaps Kesar Singh did say Ape Guru Chela but Sarbloh Granth again supports the same thing.
So Sikhs do have living Guru and that is represented by Sangat or Guru Panth and during baptism we have representation as Panj Piaras ir five beloved one.
crazyindian209
SPNer
- Jan 6, 2007
- 1
- 0
OK.. Welll having a picture of Guru Nanak. or any of the Gurus.. or having a Khanda.. does not mean your Idol Worshiping or anything!.. BUT if you bow down to it.. YOUR SAYING THATS YOUR GOD!... which God is not in a picture frame.. or in a picture...! hes not in something or he is not a thing! You can bow down.. GO bow down in a street and pray to God... but God does not tell you to bow down.. Then you guys must be saying ITS SIGHN OF respect... well... covering your head is sighn of respect.. eatin purshad is sighn of respect... your STILL SHOWING RESPECT... but God does not tell you to bow down to something!only GOD HIMSELF!
woww, i totalllyyyy agree!! calling the guru granth sahib a mere book? i dont think so, it is our guru, containing the holy jot, divine light of all ten gurus and therefore Waheguruji as they were all enlightened and is the gateway to sachkhand through its knowledge, enclosed words and meanings and spiritual power! it is our ONLY surviving guru, a gateway, not an object and i do mata tek to it (and therefore waheguruji and our ten gurus) with all my heart!
- Jan 17, 2007
- 67
- 8
It is true that Sikhism does not allow idol worship just as much as having a "Deva" next to Guru Granth Sahib during an Akhand Path. What does Guru ji's photo or an idol represent to you. It creates an atmosphere, it gives you the feeling of the presence of the Guru's. The idol will give you something to focus on when you start meditating. We all progress at our own pace.
If you have just started your journey into Sikhism then these issues do not matter. As you progress further into Spirituality you will yourself realise and come to your own conclusion that idol worship or having Guru ji's Photos is not necessary any more. Just as we give a growing up give a child toys of animals or objects to play with, treat this as the same. Just as you grow out of your childhood games and toys, you too will grow out of these objects too. (Photos and idols).
The important message to learn here is to is to make a start somewhere and whith the Guru's grace and your Sangat with like minded people following Sikh Religion, you will grow out of it. Put you foot on the first step of the Sikhi Ladder. Take one step at a time.
❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM
❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM
