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Purity

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by spnadmin, Jul 24, 2007.

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  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Who is pure?

    I would hope that anyone who reads this article today will remember it tomorrow, next week, next month, next year -- when another thread is started that proclaims that Sikhism is nothing more than a Hindu sect.

    sikhchic.com | The Art and Culture of the Diaspora | In Search of Purity

    Remember who is admitted to a Gurdwara and who is admitted to the darsan of Waheguru.:)
     
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  3. Arvind

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    Re: Who is pure?

    The author has correctly mentioned that:

     
  4. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Who is pure?

    Interesting insight about 'purity'

    Guru Nanak gave us the tools so we could shed our tribalism behind and see the world through the pragmatic kaleidoscope built by him. Unfortunately we have not followed his teachings. Guru Nanak has shown us that purity is found by breaking in our ego and getting rid of Me-ism. Till we do that we will remain in the muck hoping to become lotuses by some miracle.

    Tejwant



    PS: Coincidently, in 2004, Jaskeerat asked the same question in this forum.

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/511-what-does-mean-say-someone-pure.html
     
  5. Randip Singh

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    I saw an incident with a Sikh man yesterday and it reminded me of this:

    Page 472, Line 13
    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥सलोकु मः १ ॥Salok mehlā 1.Shalok,
    First Mehl:
    view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 472, Line 13

    ਜੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਸਭ ਤੈ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥जे करि सूतकु मंनीऐ सभ तै सूतकु होइ ॥Jė kar sūṯak mannī*ai sabẖ ṯai sūṯak ho*ė.
    If one accepts the concept of impurity, then there is impurity everywhere.
    Guru Nanak Dev -
    view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
    Page 472, Line 14

    ਗੋਹੇ ਅਤੈ ਲਕੜੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਕੀੜਾ ਹੋਇ ॥गोहे अतै लकड़ी अंदरि कीड़ा होइ ॥Gohė aṯai lakṛī anḏar kīṛā ho*ė.In cow-dung and wood there are worms.Guru Nanak Dev -
    view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
    Page 472, Line 14

    ਜੇਤੇ ਦਾਣੇ ਅੰਨ ਕੇ ਜੀਆ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥जेते दाणे अंन के जीआ बाझु न कोइ ॥Jėṯė ḏāṇė ann kė jī*ā bājẖ na ko*ė.
    As many as are the grains of corn, none is without life.
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 472, Line 14

    ਪਹਿਲਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਜੀਉ ਹੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥पहिला पाणी जीउ है जितु हरिआ सभु कोइ ॥Pahilā pāṇī jī*o hai jiṯ hari*ā sabẖ ko*ė.
    First, there is life in the water, by which everything else is made green.
    Guru Nanak Dev -
    view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
    Page 472, Line 15

    ਸੂਤਕੁ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਪਵੈ ਰਸੋਇ ॥सूतकु किउ करि रखीऐ सूतकु पवै रसोइ ॥Sūṯak ki*o kar rakẖī*ai sūṯak pavai raso*ė.
    How can it be protected from impurity? It touches our own kitchen.Guru Nanak Dev -
    view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
    Page 472, Line 15

    ਨਾਨਕ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਏਵ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਉਤਾਰੇ ਧੋਇ ॥੧॥नानक सूतकु एव न उतरै गिआनु उतारे धोइ ॥१॥Nānak sūṯak ėv na uṯrai gi*ān uṯārė ḏẖo*ė.
    ||1||
    O Nanak, impurity cannot be removed in this way; it is washed away only by spiritual wisdom. ||1||Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok;)
     
  6. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Randip ji

    Wow! I was reading this shabad yesterday
    ਜੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਸਭ ਤੈ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥जे करि सूतकु मंनीऐ सभ तै सूतकु होइ ॥Jė kar sūṯak mannī*ai sabẖ ṯai sūṯak ho*ė.
    If one accepts the concept of impurity, then there is impurity everywhere.Guru Nanak Dev -
    view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 472, Line 14

    ਗੋਹੇ ਅਤੈ ਲਕੜੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਕੀੜਾ ਹੋਇ ॥गोहे अतै लकड़ी अंदरि कीड़ा होइ ॥Gohė aṯai lakṛī anḏar kīṛā ho*ė.In cow-dung and wood there are worms.Guru Nanak Dev

    When this happens it means that the question is in the universe for some reason.

    p/s there is a thread "Who is Pure? I was the thread starter and you may want to merge that one into this one. A couple of members did respond with ideas. Up to you. Maybe you want this one to stand alone for purposes of spiritual impact.
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Randip singh ji

    It would be great if you tell us that incident
     
  8. Randip Singh

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    I am no good at merging, could you?
     
  9. Randip Singh

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    Usual thing......so called ritual to purify.

    I tell you what, why don't we list so called purification rituals that have been adopted by Sikhs?
     
  10. spnadmin

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    With your permission veer ji! MERGER COMPLETE. We may have four of the moderators present and accounted for now in this thread. The remaining may now join in!:ice:
     
  11. Astroboy

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    That's from Asa Di Vaar, Randip Ji.

    Here's another vaak :-

    ਬਾਹਰਿ ਮਲੁ ਧੋਵੈ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਜੂਠਿ ਨ ਜਾਏ ॥
    बाहरि मलु धोवै मन की जूठि न जाए ॥
    Bāhar mal ḏẖovai man kī jūṯẖ na jā­ė.
    Outwardly, he washes off the filth, but the impurity of his mind does not go away.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
  12. spnadmin

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    Now five! :thumbup:


    ++++++++++++++++



    ਲਹੁੜਾ ਤਿਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਜੰਮਿਆ ਨੀਚਹੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਨ ਆਪੁ ਗਣਾਇਆ ।

    lahurhaa tilu hoi janmiaa neechahu neechu n aapu ganaaiaa|
    Small sesame seeds sprouted and it remained lowly and got itself not mentioned anywhere.



    ਫੁਲਾ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਰਗੰਧੁ ਸੁਗੰਧੁ ਸੁਹਾਇਆ ।
    dhulaa sangati vasiaa hoi niragandhu sugandhu suhaaiaa|
    When it came to the company of flowers, it earlier being devoid of fragrance now become fragrant.



    ਕੋਲੂ ਪਾਇ ਪੀੜਾਇਆ ਹੋਇ ਫੁਲੇਲੁ ਖੇਲੁ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ।
    koloo paai peerhaaiaa hoi dhulaylu khaylu varataaiaa|
    When along with flowers it was crushed in crusher, it became perfume oil


    ਪਤਿਤੁ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਚਲਿਤ੍ਰ ਕਰਿ ਪਤਿਸਾਹ ਸਿਰਿ ਧਰਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ।
    patitu pavitr chalitr kari patisaah siri dhari sukhu paaiaa|
    God, the purifier of the impure ones, enacted such a wondrous feat that that fragrant oil gave pleasure to the king when messaged on his head.



    ਦੀਵੈ ਪਾਇ ਜਲਾਇਆ ਕੁਲ ਦੀਪਕੁ ਜਗਿ ਬਿਰਦੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ ।

    deevai paai jalaaiaa kul deepaku jagi biradu sadaaiaa|
    When it was burnt in the lamp it came to be known as kuldipak, the lamp of the dynasty generally lit to complete the last rites of man.


    ਕਜਲੁ ਹੋਆ ਦੀਵਿਅਹੁ ਅਖੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਇਆ ।

    kajalu hoaa deeviahu akhee andari jaai samaaiaa|
    From lamp becoming collyrium it merged in the eyes.


    ਬਾਲਾ ਹੋਇ ਨ ਵਡਾ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥੯॥
    baalaa hoi n vadaa kahaaiaa ॥9॥
    It became great but never allowed itself to be called so.

    Bhai Gurdas
    Vaar 4 Pauree 9

    very mystical
     
  13. mkm

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    Randip and aad0002 Jio

    In japji Sahib Guru Nanak Dev ji says" soche soch n hovaee je soche lakh vaar", means what through rituals is done to purify outside is of no use because that act of purification is like knocking at wrong door. In religion only inside purity is required.If any one lacks it, (like me, still get up set, still look at others faults more than mine own etc)), is far away from true purity. Hope you will be agree
     
  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    mkm ji

    At least you know. Yes I agree. I have that problem -- don't look closely at myself. I try. But do not always catch myself in time.
     
  15. Randip Singh

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    Some very interesting responses, but can people think of purity rituals that have crept into Sikhism?
     
  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Yes, Randip ji

    I have heard people speak of doing saeva to cleanse one's karma. That is not my understanding of seva.
     
  17. pk70

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    To all jio
    Sorry if I disagree with some, but this is what I have learnt from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Hundreds year ago, Guru Nanak set his followers free from any ritual to clean soul, to get reward and to have liberation. Now a days, some Sikhs are totally act like Hindus found during Guru ji's time. It seems whatever Guru Sahibaan preached over centuries, fail to get into these Sikhs mind. Reading Japji on high tune while planing for the day, is a ritual, going to Gurdawara and not learning any thing from the given Hukamnama, is a ritual, wishing for materialistic gains and buying" akhandpath"in return , is a ritual, reciting bani 100 times to get something back, cleaning shoes to clean the bad deeds done almost every day also are rituals. Being amritdhari and, while taking shower ,trying to have all 5 Ks with the body is a ritual, going always against Guru Granth Sahib's teaching but do all imaginary rituals to please Guru and God will do no good for the soul.. Doing give away to make good name is a ritual. All rituals are conditioned activities without having heart to them. Here I must quote Prof, Puran Singh from his book" Jin KE chole rattre " Guru doesnt need any thing from us but attention(surt)" that attention is to be completely on HIM, the Creator. Nothing can make you better Sikh than giving heart to the Almighty. That is what Guru ji asked for. Doubtless, it is true if a Sikh doesn't practice Japji in every day life, he/she dies spiritually. Do we do this or are we sold for rituals? Sikhs must answer it to themselves.
     
  18. Randip Singh

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    Very interesting points.

    What we have started doing has become a ritual in itself. Are we missing the point of Sikhism?
     
  19. Astroboy

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    tan man Dhan sabh sa-up gur ka-o hukam mani-ai paa-ee-ai.
    hukam mannihu guroo kayraa gaavhu sachee banee.
    kahai naanak sunhu santahu kathihu akath kahaanee. ||9||

    It is very clear that tan man and dhan already belongs to the Creator but Man in his selfish nature considers these to be his.

    jis kaa tan man dhan sabh tis kaa, soee sugharr sujaaneeBody, mind, wealth and everything belong to Him; He alone is all-wise and all-knowing.
     
  20. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Pk70 Jee!

    Quote "Hundreds year ago, Guru Nanak set his followers free from any ritual to clean soul, to get reward and to have liberation. Now a days, some Sikhs are totally act like Hindus found during Guru ji's time. It seems whatever Guru Sahibaan preached over centuries, fail to get into these Sikhs mind."
    This is interesting that few have realized this.

    Quote "Doubtless, it is true if a Sikh doesn't practice japji in every day life, he/she dies spiritually."
    Please elaborate. How does a Sikh practice Japji?


    Balbir Singh
     
  21. Archived_Member5

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    Kahai Nanak, sabad sohila, Satguru sunaia
    Sayeth Nanak, the sacred truth, is bestowed to me

    Pavit hoe se jana, jinni Har dhiaia
    The blessed, focussed upon Guru, are purified.

    Har dhiaia pavit hoe, Gurmukh jinni dhiaia
    The faithful devotees, by their focussed meditation upon Guru, become pure.

    Pavit Mata pavit kutanbh sahit sio, pavit sanagat sabhaia
    Purified with and by their parentage, as purified as are all associates.

    Khahde pavit, sunde pavit, se pavit jinni man vasaia
    Heed purity, consume and are imbued with purity, pure is their thinking and speech.

    Although many recite daily this mool mantra, focus upon the depth and meaning of its truth is sometimes lost. The consciousness is easily distracted and prayer becomes habitual than spiritual, chanted monotonously without concentration of consciousness upon its meaning. Teachers speak of the impure and egotistical mind consumed by its own superficiality, taking of fine foods and beverages, bathing in the finest oils and lotions, neither of what availed him good health or inner radiance. The poor and pious man eats only simple bread and water served to him by his devoted wife, the poor man was strong and healthy whilst the sinful was riddled with malady caused by his inner uncleanness. The mind and body are self cleansing if indoctrinated with brain conditioning truth.

    Man has an inbuilt powerful survival mechanism, but as with any car, appliance or science, he is required to understand how to maintain equilibrium in his body bio system. The spirit is the supernal life force thermodynamic energy of the body. Mans mind is a receptor and emitter, whether of toxic bile or of fragrant light. Physically an uptight person, contracts many illnesses from constipation to circulatory and respiratory problems causing him to dysfunction first physically in the lack of adequate oxygenation of his body causing disease, of stagnation in his colon emitting toxic chemicals into his body, both resulting in outbursts of anger, irrational behaviour, perverse thinking and foul speech. It is therefore essential to maintain perfective digestive health to stem any root causes of possible affliction causing vile odours and symptomatic of inner decay and disease.

    Spiritually one may be a perfectly reasonable and rational person, impeccable in conduct with a clear conscience and god consciousness. If one becomes plagued by demons, unseen demonic forces ones mental balance is disturbed, one becomes irrational, and thereafter until a kindly exorcist is found, babbles incongruously and at times incoherently to excrete from ones consciousness and pure being, such predatory forces. Many great thinkers and pure souls are so afflicted, including Nanak. How does one clear the consciousness of these vile and odious trespassers and looters of ones peace. By changing company, by focusing, or as the Saints do by departing to a solitary place to wage war with ones demons until peace and spiritual equilibrium is restored.

    But what of the souls in capture, constantly in the evil eye of surveillance, looted of their privacy and isolated from good company to ensure they are focussed upon the evil which, by association becomes magnified as per Plato’s theory of the man in the cave fanning a fire that magnifies as over bearing shadows those within his consciousness made a stifling cave. This is the seemingly inescapable state and mental condition of hell. Where none can near the person, nor he escape. The good are kept away and the wicked and cunning allowed access and privy to his suffering. This pain thus gives the intruders and false bearers of candles an undue and emboldened barely disguised malicious glee, what we know as ego, conceit and the diseased mind of inhumanity.

    The summary of bani is to conquer ones mind, and becomes master of our subconscious and driving will thereby. If one is a trapped within a situation where others gain great pleasure from ones own suffering then one is doomed and all those partaking or on receipt of ones pearls will assume ones emotional trauma and pain post ones departure. Kahde pavitar means to ensure the spiritual, emotional and physical sustenance we consume is from a pure and wholesome source. For if it is not it becomes adverse karma, making one beholden to the forces conspiring in its suffering and demise, an inestimable debt. Preaching peace and the abominable folly of duality is ones exoneration of any such future blame.

    Clean hands and clear conscience are themselves priceless treasure chests ...
     

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