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Punj Granthi

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by Arvind, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. Arvind

    Arvind
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  3. Neutral Singh

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    Very Interesting !! Can somebody contact amritsingh ji and let us know what are the exact contents... please keep track of this thread...
     
  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.

    IMHO Punj Granthi/Das Granthi/Bai Varaan are small POTHIS of the various Banis from Guru Granth Shib Jee in order of learning curve. These were created by Bhai mani Singh Ji Shaheed as an aid to learning of Gurbani Paath as obviously a learner cannot be expected to learn paath straight away from the GuRu sahib jee saroop.

    The Panj Granthi is the first pothi and begins with japji Sahib, Rehras, Asa di waar, sukhmani Sahib, Dakhnee Ongkar....and so on

    The "Dass Granthi" is bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and has Jap Sahib, swiyas and so on
    The "Bai Varaan" pothi has all the 22 Vaars in the Guru Granth sahib Jee

    The "Bhagat Bani" is the last Pothi in this series and has all the Bhagat bani together in one pothi.

    There is also a sakhi that purports to say that Bhai Mani Singh Ji Shaheed was "cut from limb to limb...actually joint by joint...BECAUSE he did the "sacrilege" of "cutting up" Guur Granth Ji limb by limb !! This is PREPOSTEROUS. Here we have a great scholar making an effort to make the learning and study of Gurbani paath easier....and we put the blame for his shedee on this. Then the question arises ( and we just IGNORE IT)..IF Bhai mani Singh was indeed sacrilegeous to gurbani and suffered a horrible death due to this...THEN WHY DO WE CONTINUE to USE the "broken up" bani in the POTHIS ?? Are we NOT committing the SAME "WRONG/BLUNDER " we blame Bhai mani Singh Ji. Secondly Bhai mani Singh was "cut from joint by joint"..then WHY are we NOT PUNISHED for comitting the same crime ??
    In olden days, the "clever folks" invented such sakhis....and the rest just beleived everything these kathakars/storytellers said/told them.....NOW the situation is different. It is the 21st Century...the age of Computers and internet/enlightenment...people are prone to question and judge for themselves...no one swallows anything hook-line-and sinker anymore. Before when the sants/derawallahs teachers of gurbani....related this sakhi to their students....and then USED the SAME POTHIS to teach the paath...no student had the audacity to question the "brahmgiani sant baba ji...as to this self contradiction....but now serious students of gurbani cannot just accept everything without solid proof and valid arguments.

    Jarnail Singh
     
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  5. Arvind

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    In that case, this seems to be very important step, and should be applied even today. However, we are hearing this for the first time, and looks like these writings are already ignored/getting_extinct!
    Gyani ji,

    Though you gave some idea of what these pothies contain, I am curious to know the exact contents wherever you have said '... and so on'

    Do you mean that these pothies are saral arth of Guru Granth Sahib ji? Or just relevant portions are clubbed together? Pls throw more light on this.

    Thanks.
     
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh.

    The Panj Granthi pothi has the following Banis:
    japji Sahib, Shabad hazareh, Rehras, Sohila, Dakhnee Onkar, Sidh Ghost, anand Sahib, Bavan Akhree, sukhmani Sahib nad Asa Di Waar.

    There are no arths etc - just the above banis in a small handy sized pothi so it is easier for a young student of Paath to read from and study.

    I dont have a dass granthi Pothi with me at the moment,but off hand it also contains the Banis of Guru Gobind Singh Ji - Jaap Sahib, Akal ustat, Swaiyahs, bachittar Natak and a few other banis.

    IMHO the Word PUNJ may be used to refer to PUNJVAAN NANAK - Guru Arjun Ji and all banis are from Guru Granth Ji...and the Dass Granthi - then refers to Daswaan nanak - Guur Gobind Singh ji as all the bansi in this pothi are NOT from Guru Granth ji...but from Dasam granth.

    The 22 Varaan is self explanatory - it contains all the 22 Vaars from Guru Granth Ji - again in a handy sized pothi for easier handling by students.

    The Bhagat bani Pothi contains ALL the Bhagat bani from Guur Granth Ji and includes the Slok Sahiskirti - the difficult sanskrti sloks at Panna 1340++ of SGGS.

    i hope this helps.

    jarnail Singh
     
  7. Arvind

    Arvind
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    Surely, this helped a lot Gyani ji. So the different pothies seem to be clubbing Gurbani together based on different criteria.

    Who wrote Slok Sahiskirti ?

    Also, I have read some articles about some arguments about Mundavani. What exactly is that? I am curious to know why there are different perceptions regarding Gurbani among Takhts. Forgive my ignorance please.

    Regards.
     
  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Slok Sahskriti are the SANSKRTI SALOKAS AT PANNAH 1350 OF GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE AND BEGIN THUS:
    <> siq nwmu krqw purKu inrBau inrvYru Akwl mUriq AjUnI sYBM gur pRswid ]
    ik oa(n)kaar sath naam karathaa purakh nirabho niravair akaal moorath ajoonee saibha(n) gur prasaadh ||
    One Universal Creator God. Truth Is The Name. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Beyond Birth. Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace:

    slok shsik®qI mhlw 1 ]
    salok sehasakirathee mehalaa 1 ||
    Shalok Sehskritee, First Mehl:

    piV@ pusok sMiDAw bwdM ]
    parrih pusok sa(n)dhhiaa baadha(n) ||
    You study the scriptures, say your prayers and argue;

    isl pUjis bgul smwDM ]
    sil poojas bagul samaadhha(n) ||
    you worship stones and sit like a crane, pretending to meditate.

    muiK JUTu ibBUKn swrM ]
    mukh jhoot(h) bibhookhan saara(n) ||
    You speak lies and well-ornamented falsehood,

    qRYpwl iqhwl ibcwrM ]
    thraipaal thihaal bichaara(n) ||
    and recite your daily prayers three times a day.

    gil mwlw iqlk illwtM ]
    gal maalaa thilak lilaatta(n) ||
    The mala is around your neck, and the sacred tilak mark is on your forehead.

    duie DoqI bsqR kpwtM ]
    dhue dhhothee basathr kapaatta(n) ||
    You wear two loin cloths, and keep your head covered.

    jo jwnis bRhmM krmM ]
    jo jaanas brehama(n) karama(n) ||
    If you know God and the nature of karma,

    sB Pokt inscY krmM ]
    sabh fokatt nisachai karama(n) ||
    you know that all these rituals and beliefs are useless.

    khu nwnk inscO iD´wvY ]
    kahu naanak nisacha dhhiyaavai ||
    Says Nanak, meditate on the Lord with faith.

    ibnu siqgur bwt n pwvY ]1]
    bin sathigur baatt n paavai ||1||
    Without the True Guru, no one finds the Way. ||1||

    inhPlµ qs´ jnms´ jwvd bRhm n ibMdqy ]
    nihafala(n) thasy janamasy jaavadh breham n bi(n)dhathae ||
    The mortal's life is fruitless, as long as he does not know God.

    swgrM sMswrs´ gur prswdI qrih ky ]
    saagara(n) sa(n)saarasy gur parasaadhee tharehi kae ||
    Only a few, by Guru's Grace, cross over the world-ocean.

    krx kwrx smrQu hY khu nwnk bIcwir ]

    This is one of most DIFFICULT banis and is referred to as MEHENGEE BANI ( Costly )..and it sends the shivers throught he spines of those who have to perform the 4am-6am raol of akhand paath just before BHOG...and thus many kacheh paathis try to escape this raol through nay means !!!


    On the matter of the MUNDAWNI i have started a new thread as it is too big to discuss on this thread and is unrelated anyway.

    jarnail singh.








































     
  9. Arvind

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    Gyani ji,

    I had a look at Guru Granth Sahib ji (1353) onwards for the Salok Sahiskriti Mahla 1. Also there is Mahla 5. Just to be clear does this mean that these saloks are creation of First and Fifth Guru?

    At least the bani you mentioned here, sounds like gurumukhi only, 1354 onwards, there seems to be more sanskrit words (I dont know, but looks like!)

    Regards.
     
  10. Balkar Singh

    Balkar Singh
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    Dear Arvindji , Gurfateh.
    As we were told in the 'santhya' (learning Gurbani) , there are three pothies out of Guru Granth Sahib 1) Panj Granthi 2) Bhagat Bani 3) 22 Vara.N.
    1) Panj Granthi contained Five Banies i) Bavan Akhri M-5 ii) sukhmani Sahib M-5 iii) anand Sahib M-3 iv) Onkar M-1 and v) Sidh Gosti M-1
    Later the Printer/publishers added the Nitnem and other banies in it.

    2) Pothi Bhagat Bani- contains the bani of Bhagats and Bhatts.

    3) Pothi Baee Vara.N (22 vars) as the name shows contains all 22 vars from Guru Granth Sahib ji.

    We were told that if a sikh does not study the whole Gurbani with meanings , he should ,at least study these three pothies with meanings and read these banies at his home whenever he finds time. out of them, being easy to read, sukhmani Sahib is popular and other banies are known least.
    With regards,
    Balkar Singh
     
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  11. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
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    Gyanni jee,
    In your writings , you are using the word IMHO . What this stands far.
    Guru Fateh
    Hardip Singh
     
  12. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    IMHO= In My Humble Opinion.
     
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  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    On a related note: I recently heard a Gurbani katha by Mohinder Singh ji SDO and in it Bhai Sahib ji was mentioning that the SGGS is actually passed on in "POTHIS"...or what we would call FOLIOS..( Hence the First Original name of AAD Granth is POTHI SAHIB.) Pothi means BOOK..or KITAB in Farsee..so we have Guru nanak ji being called upon to open His KITAAB and show who is better--Hindu or Mussalmaan..and Guru Ji opened His KITAAB and replied..SHUBH amlaan bajoh DOVEH Roiyee...BOTH cry if they are sans Good Actions/habits/living...meaning its not the "person/religion" BUT his ACTIONS/Karams..The "GOINDWAAL POTHIS" also feature in Sikh history...they were the book/FOLIOS. in which Gurbani of First Guru nanak ji, then Guru Angad Ji and then Guur Amardass jI and then Guru Ramdass ji was written down....
    FOLOIOS was an invention that enabled a Big Granth to be written down and managed in a good manner...the individual FOLOIOS were then SEWN together into the One Granth.

    2. Another interesting point..the POTHIS/FOLIOS of the AAD GRANTH were arranged RAAG WISE....so there was the SRI RAAG "POTHI"..ASA POTHI..RAMKLI POTHI..BASANT POTHI....and Gurbani that was NOT in RAAG - the VAARS for example...was KNOWN by the name of the POTHI..THUS VAAR ASA KI...is NOT in Raag Asa/or supposed to be sung in Raag Asa..but being recorded in the Raag Asa POTHI..it is known by that name. (All VAARS are supposed to eb SUNG in Dhadee style to DHUNIS written down in their headings..Asa Vaar is Tundeh asrajeh ki dhunni....and NOT Raag Asa. Thus we can explain the Basant vaar in Basant Pothi...Ramkali vaar in Ramkali Pothi. ALL VAARS are SIMILAR..except for Dhunis...

    3. This also explains WHY the Original Copy of the Kartarpuri Bir of Pothi Sahib has so many VACANT PAGES..as well as SEVERELY SHORTAGED PAGES. This is becasue Bhai Gurdass Ji was instructed/or himslef took the initiative to Prepare a FOLIO/POTHI of the Raag currently being RECITED by Guur Arjun Ji Sahib...and sometimes Bhai Sahib Ji OVERESTIMATED the Pagaes..and Gurbani finished long before the Particular Raag Pothi/Folio exhausted..hence many many Vacant Khalee Patrehs...while at other times he severely UNDERESTIMATED..and the Gurbani literally OVERFLOWED..and he made do by writing in the margins/empty spaces all over. THIS FACT is one solid proof that the Kartarpuri Bir is an ORIGINAL...aomeone preparing a COPY would obviously know in ADVANCE the EXACT Pages needed in a particular Folio.

    3. POTHI PARMESHAR KA THAAN....SGGS ETERNAL GURU...is in the SAME "physical state"- meaning..POTHI, KITAAB, GRANTH. We should not be overly excited over mere "words"....as many habitually get. Its the SUBSTANCE..the Pio Dadeh Da Khazanah that is of importance...a wise man would look at the TREASURE and Value it..instead of arguing needlessly over whether to call the container that the TREASURE is in..a box..chest..container..???? The REAL TREASURE Guru ji gave us in Wirasat is GURBANI..not the "pothi/granth"..we are advised by Guru Arjun Ji to KHOL and see..Khol dittah pio daddeh da Khazanah...and follow Gurbani...otherwise we have only ONE "original Pothi" and that is not even in our hands (Sodhis of Kartarpur have it as a personal property)..BUT we DO HAVE the SGGS GURBANI..which no one can take away from us..its OURS to SHARE with the World...lets do that.
     
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