Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Sikhism Pracheen Panth Prakash

Discussion in 'Book Reviews & Editorials' started by Amanpreet Singh, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. Amanpreet Singh

    Amanpreet Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    6
    WJKK WJKF

    What is Pracheen Panth Prakaash I heard Bhai Rattan Singh JI wrote on request of British.
    Is it available online for download.

    Will be very grateful
    Thankyou
    Amanpreet Singh
     
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    India Panthic space shrinking within Akali Dal; more Hindus for parliament Breaking News Mar 28, 2013
    Controversial 'Pracharaks' should spare a month for Sikh Panth: Akal Takht Hard Talk Feb 12, 2013
    Opinion In poll mode, SAD revives ‘Panthic’ agenda Punjab, Punjabi, Punjabiyat Nov 29, 2011
    Controversial Badal to be Honored with "Panth Rattan Fakhar-e-Quam" Title at Sri Akal Takht Sahib Hard Talk Nov 26, 2011
    India Panthic Morcha harps on transparency, corruption Breaking News Aug 22, 2011

  3. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    There are snippets available online if you hunt but as far as I know it is not available as a whole. There was a recent English translation (2006) of a large section by the IOSS (Institute of Sikh Studies) in Chandigarh but I have yet to read it (I'm desperately trying to get a copy. I think the translators name was Kulwant Singh).

    Apparently the original manuscript is missing and we only have Bhai Vir Singh's edited version today.

    If I get time I will try and find some sections but this wont be anytime soon.

    Actually here are some interesting bits:




    References to caste:


     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Amanpreet Singh

    Amanpreet Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    6
    WJKK WJKF

    Thanks Veer Ji for your reply.

    Thankyou
    Amanpreet Singh:)
     
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Dal Singh is correct.
    Part 1 already printed and sold by IOSS Chandigarh. Author is Prof Kulwant Singh.
    Part 2....on the way....
    I was presented a complimentary copy by Dr Kharrak Singh (late) of the IOSS in 2007 when i visited the IOSS Annual Seminar.

    Vontact the IOSS Office in Chandigarh for a copy....Prof Kulwant Singh also lives in Chnadigarh.
     
  6. Amanpreet Singh

    Amanpreet Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    6
    WJKK WJKF

    Thanks Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji for your reply.

    Thankyou
    Amanpreet Singh
     
  7. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    Found this partial translation on an old hard drive. Some of you may find it of interest.

    My brother has just returned from the Panjab and apparently has the translation of part of Panth Prakassh by Kulwant Singh of the IOSS for me (yippie!!)

    I'll post anything I find of interest from it at a later date.


    WJKK
    WJKF
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  8. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    Sri Guru Panth Prakash (Volume 1) By Rattan Singh Bhangoo (English Translation by Kulwant Singh)

    Published by the Institute Of Sikh Studies (IOSS), Chandigarh.

    Reviewed by Daljit Singh (London)

    Reviewers notes: Because of the length of the material and the importance of its contents, I will be discussing the episodes covering the events after Banda Singh’s martyrdom separately sometime in the future. This review consists of observations (and views) on some of the material I found interesting in the text, briefly covering aspects of Guru Gobind Singh’s life and mission up until the account of Banda Singh and his companions capture and transfer to Delhi. This is not a comprehensive review but more of an attempt to draw some attention to a few points I feel are noteworthy. I do not claim to be anything other than someone with an interest in Sikh history and all opinions are my own. I put them forward in the spirit of honest debate. History to me is the ongoing debate about the interpretation of the past by the present. It is a dynamic process. More often that not, we cannot claim to know what has happened in the past definitively, our picture can be sketchy due to a scarcity of available information or stark contradictions in what information does survive. It is our job in the community to piece together what we can and present a truthful account of our history. By “our” I mean the modern day Panth in all its variation. We need also to be confident enough to be unashamedly subjective when doing so as this is our own history. It belongs to us and not others. I say this because I have noticed that historians, academics and people projecting themselves as ecclesiastic classes often lay claim to history in a way that attempts to exclude the true owners of the cultural heritage under the guise of research or orthodoxy and rewrite it for their own objectives. This is not unique to the field of Sikh history but some of the work produced as “academic” ventures over the last few decades makes one raise an eyebrow regarding motives.

    We should be aware of the fact that other community’s accounts of their own (and others!) history often provide a biased and utilitarian narrative despite presenting themselves as particularly scholarly or objective. For example the Anglo-Saxon “mainstream” narrative plays down dark episodes from their own past, examples being slavery, imperialism and both the immediate and long-term effects of colonalisation on indigenous communities. They offer a portrayal which I can best describe as “white washed”. As Sikhs we should avoid resorting to such tactics. Let the truth set us free. This brings me nicely to Rattan Singh Bhangoo and the background of this book. It was his desire to provide a valid Sikh perspective of events to the encroaching British, who were questioning the Sikh right to sovereignty, that led him to produce this work. A key concern was the rebuttal of the testimony of a Muslim maulvi who was providing information on Sikh history to the expansionist British colonists prior to the Anglo-Sikh wars. In my opinion he also used the opportunity to record oral traditions that he probably knew would disappear forever, unless recorded. The evidence plainly points at a man who actively sought information on his own people’s history. His own family background gave him unique access to people closely linked with leading Khalsa soldiers and generals of the early 18th century.

    Rattan draws freely from the oral testimony of the community when writing and I admire the way he records what he encounters without gloss. He doesn’t try and whitewash the account as many would have been tempted to do. The Khalsa is presented honestly, even when the account doesn’t necessarily present them in the most flattering of light. Although I do not believe in the strict accuracy of all of the contents of the work, I respect the author’s openness in the endeavor. Where possible I have juxtapositioned contemporary Mughal recollections of events with the later version as recorded in Panth Prakash for the sake of comparison. There are those of the mind that we must bury our historical “skeletons” deep within metaphoric cupboards, I do not share this view. Learning from the past is something that can ensure not only an individual’s progression but also that of a community, even if this is a painful process. Failing to do so has its obvious consequences:
    So the Khalsa Singhs pleaded with the Bandhayee Singhs,
    It was improper for them to strife against each other
    Incase they indulged in an internecine war amongst themselves
    The Mughals would harm the entire community
    Like two sparrows fighting each other who are devoured by a wily cat
    Similarly, the Mughals would pounce upon us (Panth Prakash, page 437)
    [Please note I have very occasionally slightly reworded the text of the translation to clarify meaning when I felt the translation could be improved]


    Review

    I have come across passing comments on various parts of Rattan Singh Bhangoo’s Panth Prakash over the years. These snippets were usually exceptionally brief but tantalising references in other published accounts on Sikh history. The fact that the author of Panth Prakash was the grandson of the celebrated Mehtab Singh, who famously beheaded the notorious Massa Ranghar for defiling the Sikh’s holiest shrine in 1740 AD, added another dimension to my interest in the contents. This authors close proximity to Singhs during a defining and blood soaked period of Sikh history was not lost on me. I wanted to know just what did happen during this little understood period of our history. However, the text was never available in an accessible format. My own Panjabi reading ability being very basic, meant that I was unable to enlighten myself with the various Panjabi editions that have been published over the years. So as you can probably imagine, I was a tad bit excited when I heard that an English translation was finally being released.

    Having just read volume I, I can say the experience has been mind expanding and challenging – all at the same time. Whilst the accounts of the Gurus do not contain much that would surprise the average Sikh reader, the tales of Banda Singh Bahadur are markedly different from the stories many of us would have heard from a mainstream Sikh perspective.

    I found the writings on Guru Gobind Singh particularly fascinating. Their style is unlike anything I have read before. One thing that struck me was the very rational explanations of events. Miracles and supranatural events are generally muted. The mentioning of otherwise small details provide an account that seems to get into the nitty gritty of his times and the relationships he had with his own Sikhs and outsiders. Bhangoo mentions things that could have only been known by people physically very close to Dasmesh Pita. For example, in one episode he describes an extremely caustic remark relating to the sahibzada’s shaheedi from a Sikh when Guru ji was talking of Sikh sovereignty:
    Satguru, thereafter, proposed to his devout follower Rai Dalla Singh,
    That he should accompany him to the South .
    The Guru promised to bestow on upon him the sovereignty over Delhi
    After destroying the sovereignty of the Mughals over Delhi
    The younger brother of Rai Dalla Singh, who was standing close to him, Whispered something into his elder brother’s ears
    He remarked (sarcastically) that the Guru would bestow such a sovereignty on him, As he (the Guru) had bestowed it on his own sons. The Guru’s Brahmin cook who overheard these taunting words,
    Reported this to the Guru with a deep sense of shock. (Panth Prakash, page 173)
    Amongst the many things of interest covered in the pages, the contentious issue of meat eating is mentioned on numerous occasions, with the author presenting it as acceptable Khalsa practice. Bhangoo also gives importance to the casteless ideology behind the Khalsa mentioning it more than once. He describes Guru Gobind Singh’s thoughts on forming the Khalsa thus:
    The needy alone deserve to be endowed with rare gifts
    What is the use of empowering those who are already powerful.
    The house of Nanak is known for its compassion and generosity,
    And [is] known as the protector of the needy and poor.
    Those who belong to the various offshoots of lowly twelve subcastes,
    And know nothing about the game of power politics.
    Who are contemptuously known as rustic peasants in society,
    Or known as traders small time shop keepers and petty fighters.
    Those who belong to the low castes of blacksmiths and carpenters,
    And the lowly placed tailors and wine vendors who receive his benediction.
    This fraternity would also include the low caste cattle grazers, rustics and cow herds,
    And the ignoble vegetable growers (kambojs) and scheduled castes.
    Water carriers, barbers, small vendors and potters will also join this community,
    Sainis, goldsmiths, sweepers and cobblers will form part of this brotherhood……..
    …..I shall confer sovereignty on these poor and needy,
    So that they may remember my patronage and benediction.
    Saying this the True Guru challenged his followers,
    That they should pick up swords and attack the Mughals. (Panth Prakash, page 79)
    It is difficult not to draw the conclusion that Bhangoo wants to portray the Sikh struggle as a popular people’s revolution, that drew support from all of the common folk, hence his extensive list of the backgrounds of the everyday people who made/make up the panth.


    Banda Singh Bahadur portrayal in Panth Prakash

    The first meeting between Dasmesh Pita and Banda is remarkably similar to a reputed near contemporary account I have read by Dhadhi Nathmal (although we cannot rule out the possibility that the Dhadhi Nathmal account is actually a later product that is derived from this source). Guru ji visits the mischievous Narain Das’s (Banda’s previous name) ashram and slaughters some goats there in his absence. An enraged Banda turns up and is chastised by the Guru and his followers after which he becomes a disciple of the Guru. It is interesting to note that Bhangoo records some early resentment at the promotion of Banda to commander by some Singhs, who apparently strip him of a symbolic khanda (double edge sword), that the Guru has given him as a sign of leadership. The Guru finds this amusing and says that now the Khalsa have learnt to forcible take what is their right, his mission of empowerment was complete. (Page 195)

    Unlike the material that precedes it, the account of Banda Singh quickly takes on a “fantastic” quality, in that the relatively rational narration characterising the previous material changes. The account of Banda portrays him as an aggressive, powerful but ultimately egotistical holy man. The information on Banda Singh and the clashes his followers have with the “Tat Khalsa” after his martyrdom take up a large part of the publication. A central theme mentioned many times by Bhangoo is Banda’s ability to harness occult power. A lengthy list of his “abilities” is provided. Banda is in possession of a magic book, which gives him these powers. These references to occult abilities are supported by contemporary Persian accounts which also make mention of Banda’s reputation as a sorcerer and the negative impact it was having on Mughul troop morale. Militarily and psychologically speaking, the strategic value of such a reputation in a war context is obvious.

    Banda is described as having become haughty because of his successes against the Mughals and seeking to establish himself as a sovereign ruler and this leads to an estrangement with the Singhs, who steadfastedly hold onto the promise of power (patshahi) given by Guru Gobind Singh. The Panjabi text of this is well worth reading (Page 342). Ideological differences between what are termed “Bandayee” Sikhs and “Tat Khalsa” Sikhs are mentioned on page 347. Amongst the things mentioned is the changing of the tradition greeting “Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Kee Fateh” to “Fateh Darshan”. Altering the colour of Khalsa apparel from blue to red and enforcing vegetarianism. Relationships between the two groups deteriorate to the point of antipathy.

    There is a serious claim that the “Tat Khalsa” collaborate with the Mughals against Banda under Kahan Singh (Page 355). I find this hard to believe. The Persian accounts of the time feverishly record events. The Mughal Empire was being internally challenged like it had never been before. There is a fair amount of detail in these accounts but to my knowledge, no accounts mention any such collaboration or negotiation. Panth Prakash continues to describe various intrigues at the Mughal court, where Emperor Farrukhsiar actively encourages his agents to ferment discord between the Tat Khalsa and Bandayee Khalsa.
    As Banda Singh was alleged to be a very dangerous person,
    They [the Mughals] should be wary of getting their forces annihilated.
    Since the Mughals could not afford to break negotiations with Singhs as well,
    They must keep Singhs in good humour through means fair or foul.
    Even if Singhs behaved defiantly with them,
    They should not react angrily to snap their ties with the Singhs.
    They should keep the Singhs alienated from Banda Singh by offering money,
    So that the Singhs never get reunited with Banda Singh. (Panth Prakash, page 359)
    Occasionally when reading, you can come across something familiar. Many people have probably heard variations of this particular episode on oath breaking on the Koran before:
    (The Mughal emperor), after a long deliberation, summoned,
    Himmat Khan, The (Pathan) chief of Kasoor
    He was directed to eliminate Banda in any manner
    Even if he had to swear on the Koran, a million times [the original uses the word “lakh” which has been translated as a million]
    The emperor Farrukhsiar briefed him so thoroughly,
    He must eliminate Banda through any means, fair or foul,
    (The emperor) stressed upon the need to do away with Banda repeatedly,
    Even if he had to swear a thousand times upon the Koran [hazaar = thousand]
    The emperor asked him to imagine the dipping of one’s arm in oil.
    And the number of sesame seeds [tilh] that could stick around the oil smeared arm.
    If one could succeed in killing a Hindu,
    One should not feel guilty of swearing this many times. (Panth Prakash, page 361)
    Banda’s capture and journey to Delhi

    The description of Banda and the Sikhs final capture and transit to Delhi generally conform to the Persian records, although Bhangoo gets the execution date wrong by five years. Strange mythological references to sacrifices to the Goddess Kali are interwoven with the depiction of the last stages of resistance in the surrounded fort at Gurdaspur. The remaining Sikhs are starved prior to their capture. Bhangoo hauntingly describes their condition:
    People were scared of the phantom figures of emaciated bodies,
    As if they had tumbled out of and were fleeing their graves.
    All the flesh had disappeared from their bones,
    It appeared as if dead bodies were struggling to breathe.
    It appeared as if dead corpses ware made to walk,
    By sewing up these corpses by the hands of a magician.
    Each bone of their emaciated skelton was transparently visible,
    And it seemed as if a single breath of air would blow them into the sky (Panth Prakash, page 407)
    Mughals record this as follows:

    Comparing the contemporary Persian accounts of their journey from Panjab to Delhi with this later Sikh one provides us with the following:
    Taking Banda out of his place of confinement,
    They imprisoned him by putting him inside an iron cage.
    After tying his whole body with four iron chains,
    They put fetters on his feet and an iron ring around his neck.
    With handcuffs around his wrists and a chain around his waist,
    They chained Banda in such a tough manner.
    Positioning two soldiers on both sides of Banda Singh
    Both of them were chained to Banda Singh’s body. (Panth Prakash, page 411)
    The Mughal version goes as follows:

    The descriptions of the awe inspiring way in which Banda Singh and his Sikhs faced their imminent deaths after their capture leave quite an impression on the mind. An enduring example of chardhi kala for Sikhs. Again the combination of Bhangoo’s and Persian chroniclers’ accounts provoke striking images. Remember Bhangoo was writing some 100 years after the event. The account which follows his, is by someone who personally witnessed the arrival of Banda and the Singhs at Delhi:
    All the arrested Singhs were taken together,
    As they kept reciting Gurbani without any fear.
    Some with their free single hands were playing on the Rabab,
    Although they were too weak to pick up their weapons.
    They recited Gurbani hymns which regarded life as an illusion.
    The hymns which equated the world with the valley of death,
    Where no one could stay permanently and eternally. (Panth Prakash, page 411)

    They kept reciting Gurbani hymns and praying to God,
    For the decimation of the wicked Mughals (for their tyranny).
    They prayed that wherever the Khalsa existed,
    They should die for their religion in true spirit
    The Mughals felt outraged after hearing these sentiments,
    That the Singhs were so dauntless as to invite death.
    But they having faith in God, feared no human being,
    And their one hope was for the Lord. (Panth Prakash, page 413)
    Mirza Muhhamad remembers the day as follows:



    Final thoughts:

    I have seen that the later account provided by Bhangoo agrees in many ways to contemporary and near contemporary Persian sources despite the writer’s affiliations to opposing sides in the conflict. This clearly demonstrates that each source has its own truth despite its biases. Sometimes zealous Sikhs discount the Persian sources citing bias and claiming that this renders them unreliable. This must clearly stop, there is much we can learn from them and they can be invaluable for verifying latter Sikh accounts.

    What I have read also shows me that Gurmukhi accounts too, written some time after the events they depict, can be as valuable a source of historical information as the contemporary kind. But we should avoid blindly accepting their contents. The reason for this can be amply demonstrated by Bhangoo’s depiction of Banda Singh. Why is it so negative in places? There could be a number of reasons; I will explore one hypothesis knowing that there will be many more with as valid a claim to possibility as this one.

    Perhaps Banda Singh’s autocratic style of leadership did not appeal to some of the older Singhs and they genuinely viewed it as a deviation from Khalsa ideology. This is not difficult to imagine. Banda had only been exposed to Sikh doctrine for a relatively short period of time. This could be the cause of a rift as recorded by Bhangoo. But we should also ask why Baaj Singh (deputed by Dasmesh Pita himself to support Banda), remained loyal to Banda till the end.

    If we pursue this hypothesis, we can see that Bhangoo could have been exposed to the opinions and perspective of the camp that opposed Banda i.e. he is a direct descendant of the “Tat Khalsa” Singhs and his work reflects their own recollection of the events. This may well involve the amplification of the perceived shortcomings of Banda according to their own thoughts and beliefs. Plainly speaking, some of this may well be the repetition of propaganda used against the powerful Banda Singh.

    Bhangoo is plainly wrong on some matters. For example, he highlights Banda as compromising the egalitarian principles of sharing meals regardless of caste (langar). This is starkly contradicted by Mughal accounts that do not fail to take note of the caste blind partaking of langar encouraged by Banda Singh himself. Also the stories of collaboration with Mughals by the Tat Khalsa against what Bhangoo calls “Bandayee” Sikhs find no support in any Persian sources (as previously mentioned). In the face of such a serious threat to Mughal rule, is it possible that no one would have made any note of this defection anywhere? Which Mughals did these supposed defectors liaise with? Surely such an event would have been big news worthy of mentioning in at least one of the many Mughal accounts written by people directly involved in the battles? Given the detail in the available accounts, it seems unlikely that such an event occurred, or someone would have mentioned it, even if in passing.

    Despite all of this the work is of immense importance and value for Sikh history and Panjabi lexicography provided it is used prudently. I felt that the translation could be improved in places, for example the translator occasionally projects additional words such as Khalsa where the original does not use the word. But this is undeniably a laudable first effort at translation and pioneering in nature. A number of typos are present in the volume and the publishers should be more effective when proofreading in future. As with all good works, this opens up as many questions as it answers. The next logical area of study in my opinion would be one that seeks to compare the published version with older manuscript versions, highlighting any divergence. This is important because of claims that expunging has taking place. Overall, I consider this to be a fascinating piece of literature and I look forward to reading volume II.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  9. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    dalsingh ji

    You are such a saint to be posting these dutifully. Thanks so much. they are immensely helpful.:star:
     
  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    After reading this i must want to say that sikhism was originally a religion of poor people but unfortunately it is now a rich people's religion.Except Dalits and very few other communities among sikhs.majority of sikh communities are Rich or should I say they have Good economic status compare to
    other Indians.But these communities totally failed to spread the religion to the poor and downtrodden people.Now as a result we getting weak and poltically.The only way to survival is back to basic.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  11. pk70

    pk70
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,582
    Likes Received:
    627
    Going through the History of Babda Singh Bahadur, one question bothers me.
    Guru Gobind Singh ji passed away just in 1708, "why in so short period, his followers started calling him "Guru"?"
    May be our respected Gyani ji can shed light on it if he has read the History of this perid !

    Regards
    G Singh
     
  12. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    Got this from another site:

    Mirt’at-i-Waridat by Muhammad Shafi in 1734 clearly shows Muslims viewed Baba Banda Singh an incarnate of Guru Sahib.

    They sent letters to the zamindars of the territories of the Punjab and Hindustan, who belonged to his circle of believers, that Guru Gobind, while in the army of the Emperor, had died at the hands of an Afghan, but, according to his will, in a short while, he will, through the transmigration of his soul, wear the robe of honor of sovereignty, reappearing afresh as a living person.


    Apparently Banda Singh looked very similar to Guru Gobind Singh and some Singhs (not all), wanted to make him a Guru for his services. This was possibly one of the causes of the schism between the Tat Khalsa and the Bandayee Khalsa. But the evidence supports Banda himself not claiming Guruship. When he struck coins he did so in the name of the Gurus not himself.
     
  13. pk70

    pk70
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,582
    Likes Received:
    627
    "




    <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgrdip%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgrdip%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgrdip%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:1; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-format:eek:ther; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> Dalsingh ji
    Thanks for giving a reference in answer to my question. As you are aware of this fact that Persian writers are very biased towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji, calling him to be in Emperor’s army was a technique to belittle what Guru Gobind Singh established. Guru’s Hukamnama issued to sangat that indicates Guru’s was willing to go to Anandpur Sahib back, proves that Guru just met Bahadur shaw and after that proceeded towards Punjab.
    I am aware of this fact that Banda Bahadur issued a coin in the name of GuruNanakGobindSingh” but why he couldn’t clearly advise his followers not to call him Guru? In your quote, What Guru said in context of coming back in to a person to have sovereignty, too appears to be here say because Guru himself sent Banda Bahadur towards Punjab. Possibly Bahadur Shaw played a trick with Guru by agreeing with Guru to let him send Banda Bahadur to take revenge from Governor of Sirhind but later on when Guru was assassinated, changed his stance to keep all Muslims officials on his side. It could be his own conspiracy to assissinate Guru. Bhai Nand Lal Ji disappears from his court after 1709-10, why? His being so close to Guru and leaving that big job also has something to do with Guru’s assassination. He was not with Bahadur Shaw when he ordered to kill “Nanak Panthi” at sight.
    I think, as Banda Bahadur got power after Guru and got a lot of respect, he inclined towards to be a Guru and never rebuked anyone who addressed him Guru. Due to this practice of addressing him as a Guru, his close associates started calling him Guru and some Sikhs kept apposing him. After having said that I feel whatever Banda Bahadur did was exceptional to jolt the Mogul Empire never to stable again. Would you share on this?


    Regards
    G Singh
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    From what I understand Guru ji was with Bahadhur Shah's camp for a while, many (including me), feel that he was trying to get justice (regarding Wazir Khan) through due process. Remember that Bahadhur Shah many years earlier (preKhalsa) had led an attack on the Hill Rajahs but did not attack Dasmesh Pita, who had formed an alliance with them. My point is that they knew of each other along time prior to the period you are referring to.


    I partially agree, perhaps, when Dasmesh Pita realised that Bahadur Shah was not going to give him justice. (Maybe he was concerned about losing Muslim support by supprting an infidel against Wazir Khan?), Guru Gobind Singh deputised Banda Singh to go to Sirhind and "khurkaa" it and attack Moghul authority. Yes, I believe it to be highly likely the Bahadhur Shah sent the assasins to Dasmesh Pita, especially as contemporary Persian records indicate the family of the slain assasin was given some reward by the Moghul administration.

    I think we should also remember that he may have been called Guru as in teacher or leader and not as a succesor to the 10. However, people in Panjab, even today, adopt Gurus (look at the current conroversy with that Dera guy!), so maybe this same instinct made people in the past adopt Banda as a Guru. I fully agree with your statement about Banda and his followers effect on the Moghuls. What they achieved was definitive and shook the Moghuls to the core. The fact that they had to parade him and publically execute him in such a conspicuos manner to deter others indicate that they were quite aware of the effect his "rebellion" could have on minds. Reminds me a bit of the Scot, William Wallace. Our Guru started the process of undermining Moghul assertions of superiority, Banda damaged their reputation so much and defeated them so often that it shattered the "aura of invincibility" they had. The rest is history! We are still here as a living dynamic community, Moghuls are relics and memories.
     
  15. pk70

    pk70
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,582
    Likes Received:
    627
    Dalsingh Ji

    Thanks for responding, partially I agree with you on "guru issue", and still I feel, when one meets Guru in person and gives up all to follow Guru, should openly criticize this practice but he didnt, many strong Sikh warriors after him got bigger victories than him but they never allowed other fellows to call them Guru like Bagel Singh, so my doubts are there that his mind might have started feeding ego as he rose from a simple hunter to a level of regional ruler, in context of Deras, the leaders of these Deras, seek pleasure in being addressed as Guru, so that appears different issue.

    Secondly, I just want to clarify my statement about Guru Gobind Singh ji and Bahadur Shaw meeting. When I wrote that" Guru just met"(Sorry for the confusion) I mean after just meeting, Guru sends that Hukamnama. I am well aware of Guru Ji's contects with Bahadur Shaw before that meeting, even you are aware of Zaffarnama, Guru ji referes to Bahadur Shaw as "Shah" in context of future meeting. I agree with rest of your post though. Thanks:)

    Regards
    G Singh
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. satnamwaheguru

    satnamwaheguru
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    4

Share This Page