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Power of pauri's in Japji Sahib query

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by kaur-1, Aug 17, 2006.

  1. kaur-1

    kaur-1
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    For eg from the link below:
    http://www.{url not allowed}/sikhnet/sikhism.nsf/d9c75ce4db27be328725639a0063aecc/0b0fda39d893f20d872565b7007b33cc!OpenDocument

    "FIRST Pauri
    ("Sochai soch na hova-ee")
    The total knowledge of God and esctasy is contained in this Pauri. The rest of japji Sahib is an explanation of it.

    NINETEENTH Pauri
    ("Asankh naav asankh t’haav")
    If you understand this Pauri, you’ll never have trouble understanding anything. Guru Nanak blessed this Pauri in that whosoever reads it and understands it word by word will gain the knowledge of the four Yugas (ages).

    TWENTY-FIFTH Pauri
    ("Bahuta karam")
    If it is written in your life to suffer, and you cannot live to your highest destiny, this Pauri will uplift your life to Infinity. Chant it eleven times a day. This Pauri is also chanted to bring prosperity.

    THIRTIETH Pauri
    ("Aykaa maa-ee jugat vi-aa-ee")
    This Pauri is called "mritee bhugatee jugatee shabad" (mritee = death, bhugatee = life to go through it, jugatee = secret technology, shabad = sound current, word). If you read this Pauri forty times a day, death cannot strike you, and karma will not hit you.

    THIRTY-THIRD Pauri
    ("Aakhan jor chupai neh jor")
    Whosoever chants this Pauri twenty-five times a day, there is nothing on earth he will not have."





    Could any learned Gursikh explain the above.

    Das am aware of the power of reciting for eg sukhmani sahib or anand Sahib or Jaap Sahib or Rehras or kirtan Sohila

    http://www.sikhworld.co.uk/page16.html

    Das also am aware that its important to recite with correct pronunciation and also to understand the meaning of the banis.


    Das does not think that for eg reciting the 13th Pauri 40x's a day death cannot strike you, and karma will not hit you.

    Das thought that meditating on NAAM or reciting gurbani or singing shabad as much as possible whilst understanding what das is reciting will do as the above statement anyways - not just the 13th pauri 40x's.

    Could any learned Gursikh explain the above?. have I got it wrong?
     
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  3. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Kaur-1 Ji,




    Correct Pronunciation is necessary to get the right meaning (in the right context)of the said words as incorrectly pronounced words can cause misunderstanding for both the reader and the listener.

    Understanding the Bani is necessary to increase our knowledge of the Truth. (Always remember: knowledge alone cannot help you even a bit, unless it is used in real life)

    Reciting Bani(one time or several times/by shabad or banis) is just a religious trait. (Please forgive my remark if it hurts any of your religious beliefs, BUT THIS IS THE TRUTH) Reciting Bani will help you only if you are doing it whole heartedly, understanding it and grasping the meaning, contemplating over it, extracting the real essence of that Vichaar and THEN LIVING IT BY ABSORBING YOURSELF IN THE REFLECTION OF BANI.
    You can do this only if you have an unshakable belief that what my Guru is telling me IS THE TRUTH. Then it will not matter you read it 1 time, 10 times or 40 times, every time you will read it you will have a deeper realization of the Truth within.

    Bani is Amrit, but only those can enjoy this nectar who truly believe in it. Only those who truly understand-“Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani…..”



    This idea of recitation of Bani or Shabads a number of times (like you mentioned) has been taken from Numerology. Numerology been a part of eastern philosophies for ever, so it seeped into Sikhism as well. (you might have heard of Hanumaan Chaleesa-it has 40 aspects of Hanumaan’s powers and pandits recommend their disciples to read it 40 times, because they believe that this way a person can attain all those powers)
    Some people have made this number of times a day/sitting kind of thing a sensitive issue; for a true seeker, indulging into such issues is simply a waist of time and energy.

    Unless you are truly reading , understanding, and contemplating and then trying wholeheartedly to live the teachings of Bani, nothing else takes you anywhere.

    For example-We read Japji Sahib everyday, how many of us are even trying to understand –Kiv Sachiara Hoeeya Kiv Kooray Tuteh Paal…….(very first pauri in Siri Japji Sahib).
    Now reading Siri Japji Sahib Ji even your whole life(even several times a day) will not do anything, if this line is not understood and lived. Because this is THE BEGINNING.


    Guru Mere Sang Sadaa Hai Naaleay
     
  4. kaur-1

    kaur-1
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    "Kiv Sachiara Hoeeya Kiv Kooray Tuteh Paal

    So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?"


    Wow.. How ?

    Das had to cheat and post this question on another site for input and only had 1 reply so far.

    Das knows that das will need alot of help with answering this questions..

    Help ..I dont know anything..


     
  5. simpy

    simpy
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    First we need to know that Guru Ji is talking about the Truth, the Sprituality, and Relization of the Truth.

    Truth is GOD
    To find the Truth the veil of ignorance has to be torn away.


    socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr ]
    Here it is about Outer Cleanliness, what ever you do to clean your self physically(pure) it is not going to help you Spiritually.

    cupY cup n hoveI jy lwie rhw ilvqwr ]
    What ever you do to be quite, nothing will not help spiritually.

    BuiKAw BuK nw auqrI, jy bMnw purIAw Bwr ]
    By staying hungry, hunger will not be appeased and it will not go away even after acquiring all the material goods. Spirituality is not acquired this way.

    shs isAwxpw lK hoih q iek n clY nwil ]
    By becoming intellectually smart you can not progress Spiritually.


    ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY, ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]
    Now here Guru Sahib is posing a question to the listener/reader. He is asking all the above things do not help in Spiritual progress then what we have to do to tear apart the veil of illusion. What to do to become truthfull(Sachyara).

    Upper lines talk about four things- Physical purity, Monn Vart(Silence), Staying hungry, and mere cleverness. These were the four major things which were given more importace at that time. People who were posing to be Spiritually elevated were misguiding the common mass. They were being told that if they want to realize God they have to do all the above and no truth was being told to them.


    Here Guru Ji is telling us what to do to become truthfull.
    hukim rjweI clxw, nwnk iliKAw nwil ]1]

    By staying in His Hukam. By making His Will your will. So what ever happens accept it as His Will.

    In Mool Mantra Guru Sahib has stated the Attributes of Akaal Purkh.

    His Name is The Truth.
    He is Karta Purkh.
    ……

    Now if we believe that He is the Karta Purkh then He is the Doer, He is the Creator, He is the Sustainer, He is the Liberator, He is all pervasive…….
    When something goes against our wish, what happens to our belief. We have to make our belief strong.


    Think about it….

    Always open to questions and comments.


    Guru Mere Sang Sadaa Hai Naaley
     
  6. kaur-1

    kaur-1
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    Bhenji, Das has been comtemplating (or trying to) on the tuk and have decided to first start by looking into "remaining dead while yet alive" angle in SGGSJ. (to answer "And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?")





     
  7. Arvind

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    "Remaining dead while yet alive"... living detached in this world of attachment.

    Offering the head to Guru, begging for Gurmat enables one to start walk on Sikhi way.

    Regards.​
     
  8. kaur-1

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    Summary:

    Naam
    meditate on the true name,
    remember, be absorbed in naam,
    focus consciousness on the true naam - 24/7

    Gurbani
    sing Akal Purkh's praises,
    contemplate on the words of shabad gurbani - the true words of Akal Purkh,
    understand whats being recited,
    live it ie. follow guru's true teachings in our everyday life.

    Walk in harmony with Guru's(Akal Purkh) Will. Accept the true Guru's will.

    This will eventually help detachment from the world i.e. pursuit of wordly attachment and subdue ones mind.
    In subduing ones mind one eradicates the five evils.

    This leads to one being "remaining dead while alive" as a Gurmukh. Without naam and gurbani ie the true words of waheguru, one might as well be dead.

    Beg for Naam,
    beg for shabad,
    remain in fear of Akal Purkh (SGGSJ Ang 151)
    *
     
  9. dalsingh

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    socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr ]
    Here it is about Outer Cleanliness, what ever you do to clean your self physically(pure) it is not going to help you Spiritually.

    ----------------------------------------

    Huh!

    I've always thought this line reads:

    "By thinking (sochna) alone he cannot be comprehended, even if one thinks laks of times."

    have I got it wrong? and why is thefont so large?
     
  10. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected DalSingh Ji,

    Sorry if the font size bothers you-you do not have to read this-this is your choice.

    'soc' is thinking in today’s Punjabi.

    But in Guru Ji’s times this word (check the writings available from those times) was also used for CLEANSING.

    Proof of this in Bani-soc krY idnsu Aru rwiq ] mn kI mYlu n qn qy jwiq ]


    Even if we look at these lines from a scholarly point of view, during those times word ‘soach’ was used for BATHING. This word is from Sanskrit.

    'soic' is cleansing
    ‘socY’ is the task of cleansing/Bathing

    Respected Professor Sahib Singh Ji, Respected Bhai Veer Sigh Ji and others do have the same view.


    Also look at those four things discussed in the first pauri, thinking is discussed when Guru Ji is saying-
    shs isAwxpw lK hoih q iek n clY nwil ]
    Cleverness is the thinking aspect discussed here.

    Mind’s job is thinking- But we are supposed to discriminate between the Truth and the False(how can we do this if we do not think).

    Then Bani says-
    mn isAwxp CofIAY gur kw sbdu smwly ]

    Mind’s cleverness has to be discarded, how can we do this if we do not realize that this(cleverness) is not good, and to do this discrimination we have to think.

    Thinking is involved when we are doing the Contemplation of Bani, Can we do this without thinking.
    Living Guru Ji’s Teachings- Can we do this without thinking.

    mn qUM joiq srUpu hY Awpxw mUlu pCwxu ]
    Can we live this TRUTH without thinking.


    Another thing, just a thought for you to explore. Untill Rom Rom Simran starts we cannot even do Simran without thinking, as Mind has to be involved. Simran is not just verbal repetition, when you say Waheguru/Satnaam/God , mind and body both has to be aligned(as we say it should come from within); only then it becomes Simran.

    Thinking has to be done but in the RIGHT DIRECTION.

    Always open for questions and comments.

    Guru Mere Sang Sadaa Hai Naaleay
     
  11. dalsingh

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    Thank you Paan Ji,

    I will look into the meaning of soch and I appreciate your comments.

    I had thought that the japji, was explaining that fully understanding God was beyond intellectual grasp in the aforementioned line.


    But what you says makes good sense. Are there any other bani you know of which uses the word soch so that I can verify?:
    -------------------------------------------------

    soc krY idnsu Aru rwiq ] mn kI mYlu n qn qy jwiq

    Also does the above translate?:

    One may wash day and night but neither the dirt of the mind or that of the body is removed.
     
  12. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected DalSingh Ji,

    As i said this word was also used for Cleansing so it comes in Bani with both meanings-Cleansing and Thinking. You have to see where it is being used, in what context and how.
    Here in this line Word is used as

    socY-sOc krny nwl

    Other lines in Bani in the same context are-

    -brq sMiD soc cwr ] ik®Aw kuMit inrwhwr ]

    -mnu nhI sUcw ikAw soc krIjY ] ikrqu pieAw dosu kw kau dIjY ]

    -piq ivxu pUjw sq ivxu sMjmu jq ivxu kwhy jnyaU ] nwvhu Dovhu iqlku cVwvhu suc ivxu soc n hoeI ]

    -nwm ivhUxy pic muey BweI gxq n jwie gxI ] ivxu sc soc n pweIAY BweI swcw Agm DxI ]

    i guess enough for today, there are more but i think you should read Bani yourself and find, as it will help you to understand better.


    to discuss -"God was beyond intellectual grasp"

    My dear read pauri 5-

    ijin syivAw iqin pwieAw mwnu ]
    .....jy hau jwxw AwKw nwhI khxw kQnu n jweI ]




    here again maan must be read in its right context.

    this word is used in Bani as-

    1.proof mwn pRmwn
    2.honor mwn Apmwn
    3.agree mwnnw

    it depends how it is used and what the other lines in the whole stanza are saying.

    The words 'Akath Ki Katha' is mentioned differently and all depends how and where and also what state of a Jagiasu is being discussed.


    Confused, it is ok, read Bani and ask for His(God/Guru) Guidance, He is the only one who will show you the Light, and He knows which way(?) as all is within you.


    Always open for questions and comments.









    Guru Mere Sang Sadaa Hai Naaleay
     
  13. kaur-1

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    "living detached in this world of attachment." the veil of ignorance is(or mainly due to?) HAUMAI

    So can we say that HAUMAI is the mind's greatest enemy (evil) and therefore we have to constantly identify haumai in our thinking in relation to our everyday life, the way we response to situations. For e.g. reminding ourself that nothing really belongs to us.

    A step to prepare our mind to understand Gurmat.

    "Offering the head to Guru," is surrending to Waheguroo's HUKUM. Having complete faith in Waheguroo.

    "begging for Gurmat" Prayer (ardas) to Waheguroo instead of material things, for guru ki mat (divine teachings in SGGSJ)

    "enables one to start walk on Sikhi way"
     
  14. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    Dear Brothers and sisters,

    ("Sochai soch na hova-ee")
    What Guru Nanak Dev ji is referring to in this tuk is that going to pilgrimages and bathing there will not help cleans your mind.

    QUESTION

    ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]
    kiv sachi-aaraa ho-ee-ai kiv koorhai tutai paal.
    So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?
    ANSWER
    hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]1]
    hukam rajaa-ee chalnaa naanak likhi-aa naal. ||1||
    Guru Nanak stands witnesses to this statement that says "Those who obey the Hukam of His Command, are the ones that shall know the truth ||1||

    The rest of your issues "Like a dog - Keep Chasing Your Tail " You wil not get anywhere.

    AwKix joru cupY nh joru ]
    joru n mMgix dyix n joru ]
    joru n jIvix mrix nh joru ]
    joru n rwij mwil min soru ]
    joru n surqI igAwin vIcwir ]
    joru n jugqI CutY sMswru ]
    ijsu hiQ joru kir vyKY soie ]
    nwnk auqmu nIcu n koie ]33]


    Not everyone has the ability to master the shabads. For that you need a guide a system, right timing, Astrology is involved in it. Trying to master it without supervision can pit you into comma or even physically deform you. So be a fool if you want to.

    Bibi Surinder Kaur ji - Is it possible to know your D.O.B, T.O.B and P.O.B. You can pass it through SPN.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Wahe guru ji ki Fateh

    "Tu daryaao dhanna bina, main mashli kaise aant lahaoun"
     
  15. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Hai_Bhi_Sach Ji,

    thanks to you endlessly,


    you been claiming in all the posts of yours that you have already achieved everything- you know all, you are a tree with only one leaf left on it, everybody else is only chasing their tails you are the only one with the knowledge, and so on..........

    So why asking me my DOB, TOB and POB-YOU MUST BE ABLE TO KNOW BY ALL MEANS WITHOUT SOMEBODY TELLING YOU. I know my DOD, TOD and POD as well, you need to know that as well......


    What happened?????????.....





    forgive me please
     
  16. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    Surinder Kaur ji,

    Nothing has happened. Why waste the jewel when there is an alternative.
    It was only a request in passing.


    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh
     

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