Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Polygamy in the case of Jathedar of Patna Sahib

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by vijaydeep Singh, Apr 27, 2005.

  1. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    86
    Gurfateh

    Das has only few minutes left for computer yet will try to complete this issue and seeks the reply and opinons of other in this case.

    Well Jathedar Iqbal Singh Ji do preach and himslef do a good lot of Naam Abhyas(the practise to rember the name of God).

    Any person like this becomes less interested towards sex and may indulge only to reprodue or sometime with his wife.Then Jathedar Ji also preach vegitarianism(das though eats meat but appriciates and support his type of vegitrainism which even tells to avoid veggi junck food but nothing related to Paap or Punya).

    So if such person has wife then and who could be not staisfied by her husband as she wants then she may find someone else.

    Das was told in Patna Sahib that single person is not given room here as once a 'Granthi's' wife eloped with another Granthi.

    That could be another case.

    But in case of our Jathedar Ji,He told that his first wife left her house and went perhaps without telling.

    After a good lot of time he got remarried to another girl.As he himslef a Jathedarof Panth he may not obey Hindu Law which makes Sikhs also to act as a Hindu(there should be sepearte law for Sikhs in India and not to be clubbed in hindu law).

    So they were living happly thence but it happened that by some good reason the first wife returned Back to her husband.

    Had he been Brahmanical Hindu,he would have killed her.But he is Jathedar and he still accepted her. and kept both the wives.

    Then on idealogical issue there were some people who Jathedar Ji got reprimended by Panth.

    so such guys thought to make use of this extra oridinary family situation of Jathedar and louched the complaint in Akal Takhat.

    Das will never support the desicons of Jathedar Vedanti Sahib to give Tankha to Sirdar Sahib Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana or Gurdit Singh Ji(writer of Mundavani) as they could have been a sort of discussion with them by any true Taksali or Nirmala and they could have been explained the facts which they might have overlooked.

    But still in this case Jathedar Ji did a good work.He said that if the first wife of Jathedar of Patna Sahib complaints then only he could do anything.

    Jab Mia Bivi Razi To Kya Karega Kazi.

    But Das got a new Idea by this episode.

    If we want to resotre polygamy in Panth we can have this rule that only after the permisson of first or consequent wife(s) ,Husband can bring in other wife(s).

    Das has tried to be neutral but if Das has writtan anything wrong forgive Das and rectyfy his fault.In the aboe case first wife was not in seen when marrige occured.
     
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    polygamy Sikh Sikhi Sikhism May 26, 2005
    Sikh News No connection between legalizing same-sex marriage and polygamy Breaking News Jan 21, 2005
    Mormon Polygamy :: Social and Political Reactions Spiritual Articles Aug 19, 2004
    Polygamy and Sikhism Sikh Sikhi Sikhism Aug 13, 2004
    Sikh News Sikh Union Make Special Visit To Houses Of Parliament To Showcase Their Community Work - Breaking News Jul 30, 2016

  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Veer Vijay writes:

    But Das got a new Idea by this episode.

    If we want to restore polygamy in Panth we can have this rule that only after the permission of first or consequent wife(s) ,Husband can bring in other wife(s).

    Das has tried to be neutral but if Das has written anything wrong forgive Das and rectify his fault.In the above case first wife was not in seen when marriage occurred.

    in that case can the First and subsequent WIVES take other HUSBANDS...( after asking "permission" of course !!! ??
    I am sure the Jathedar wont take too lightly on his wives having other husbands....

    Gurbani clearly says;; EK JYOT DOI MOORTEE...TWO BODIES but ONE JYOT. Gurbani doesn't say....CHAAR MOORTEEAAN.. or SAAT MOORTEEAN

    This is the CLEAREST GURBANI PHURMAAN that guru Ji considers a COUPLE to be composed of TWO BODIES...NOT MULTIPLE COUPLES !!!

    Jarnail Singh
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #2 Gyani Jarnail Singh, May 12, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2015
  4. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    86
    Gurfateh



    Well Das first of all wants to know the page number of the verse which Gyani Sahib Ji have are givng.



    It may mean for Akal and Bhakt or God or Devote and to one Husband Akal we all Devotess are are like Wifes but Akals light is in in us also.



    Then Das can say that if ployandry is encoueged then there could be a few flaws like we may not know whose offspring the lady is bearing.



    Likly we may see that primate like Chimps etc only 2 chromosoons less then us have harms or polygamy.



    Female produces one egg and that also for one month while famel prudues sperms in millions and during all the time.



    Coming Back to polygamy subject.Mani thing Das knows is that unforutantly in India's Punjabis speaking Sikh population we are left with only 8000000 Sikh with uncut hairs and remaing of the 1.9 Crore(1 Creore is 10 Millions) are aposates.

    Well in other communties due to polygamy etc, even if conversion is not there yet we have large birth rate.In Punjab due to one son each and daughter being killed further there is fall in Sikh population.



    Dowery,Marrige outside Sih comuntiy are mnay other reason for fall in numbers of Sikhs and polygamy could be only the answer.



    Well virus of Mongamy entered the Panth during Reform movement,When Arya Samjis were harping on Rama as Yug Purush(man of Age) for haviing one wife and as per then polygamy means lust.And similar views were of Protestants evengalist.

    So our missionareis of that time were on defensive and does they did self inflicting theory to thinking of what outsiders will say.

    While Muslims still stuck to what was there in their faith.As a result they got thier own nation and even in India better positions then Hindus..

    Das is from those people who even may not marry but regarding Panthic numbers which do matter in democracy espeacly if we do not have any state supporting us.So if we have a Sikh state anywhere in world and we have control of immigration in Sikh dominated Areas we can think to debate but at present polyandry like Draupadi etc Das think may not solve the purpose.

    Das is again repeatring that if any female does not want then male(her husband) can not have more then one wife.And that should be the rule.
     
  5. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    86
    Gurfateh

    Das first of all tenders an aplogy to all if his radical views have hurt anyone.

    Das was only concern with a sort of misuse of equal rights some of our sisters misuse also.

    Das does not support polygamy in general terms but in situatons it can be considered and may not be rgiedly opposed.

    Like

    1. There is no Sikh match for Sikh girl but Girl wants to marry a Sikh
    2. No one is ready to maary a rape victom or Divorece(term Dohagan is used in Gurbani to one left out by husband)
    3.To rehabitate poor,protitute etc.
    4. Within family say if brother dies and another mareed brother if at all can also maarry widow of brother
    5. To rise popualtion of Panth in core Areas.
    6.Unlike in punjab where middle class Jatt(Farmers) and Bhapas(Traders) prefer to keep small family to let them have less division of property we may have lower class in other part of the words who need large family to eran with labour or high class where we can affrod to have large family.

    but have we reaqched that state that women is equal enough to veto the wish of her husband to remaary without undue pressure from Husband is the moost questiion.

    Das is anyway happy that here Panth is atleast listening ti him and answering and defeating him in debate unlike Hindutva people who simplely did not allowed his post on this topic.
     
  6. Arvind

    Arvind
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    379
    Dear Lee,

    Hope this discussion helps regarding your recent query about Polygamy.

    Regards.
     
  7. Lee

    Lee
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    377

    Sat Sri Akaal!

    Vijaydeep Singh and cyber Sangat.

    I understand why you say this but a few thoughts psring to mind.

    This discounts all non Punjabi Sikhs, I have offten heard it said that Sikhi is not an Indian/Punjabi religion but one for the World. Then isn't it a better idea to promote Sikhi everywhere, rather than say Punjabi Sikhs can have more than one wife or husband? Anyway just because an extra Sikh is born, that does not automaticaly say that they will remain a Sikh. In fact on that note, are you born a Sikh, or do you make the choice to become a Sikh.

    The second thing that springs to mind is what is more important, that there be more Sikhs in the World or that your personal Sikhi is top notch?

    Personaly speaking I would rather see more top notch true Gursikhs around than an increase in number of those that say and preach Sikhi, and practice Manmukh(heh of course I count myself in the latter)

    To me the spread of Sikhi, is less important than my personal relationship with God.

    Is this wrong? Do tell.

    Cheers,

    Lee.
     
  8. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    54
    Dear Lee

    I agree with you that it is more important to few true sikhs than many sikhs jsut in name .but now in present world where politics and big management issues are decided on number bases even when they are not right so no. do have some significance in practical world nad offcourse I also agree that this is not the best way(Polygamy)to do that but still if conditions agree there is nothing against it and can be practiced as required by somebody .

    Jatinder Singh
     
  9. Hukum Kaur

    Hukum Kaur
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    10
    Their is a slight overpopulation problem in this world, procreating to increase the population of ones faith seems to be a mentality of the past. If one wants to have children it should be because they feel called to do so. God is telling them, now is the time to secure the futur generation. Married life is said to be the hardest Kria their is. Marriage with children is the black belt of martial arts. It is difficult enough with one spouse, very rare is the trio (or more) who can pull off poygamy without introducing jelousy and need. A woman's role is to serve her husband, does he need to be served two fold or three fold? A mans role is to relax his woman, does he have the ability to properly relax x amount of women at the same time? On the flip side, it would be very difficult to serve x amount of men and raise ones children. Having x amount of men realx you can get distracting and overstimulating. When you are intimate with somebody who is intimate with others, you are automatically connected with those others through that person. How many Karmas and psychies do we want to deal with at once? If one wants to rase more children and show them the rightious ways of the Sikh Dharma, addopt some children from India. I have heard terrible stories of women who croud around busses holding their wrapped babies up, asking for money. I do not want to support this 'trade', however these children will not be raised in love if their mothers would rather have money. Back to the issue of polygamy, when one has found the person with whom they can be selfishless with and humble towards and vibrate for, do they need anything more than such an exstacy?Sat Naam, Wahe Guru
    Liv Kaur
     
  10. jsingh45

    jsingh45
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fateh all a question that I had wanted to ask for a while now, Was our Tenth Guru Guru Gobind Singh ji not wed to four women? Also did he not father his children from two different women? Please forgive me for my Ignorance
     
  11. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    54
    Dear Friend

    Here is the thread which already has some disscusion and viewpoint about the topic you can read and give your regarding the topic , this thraed also address the same kind of question and so be of some help to you

    Jatinder Singh
     
  12. Hukum Kaur

    Hukum Kaur
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    10
    What maters most is our marriage to God. We are all his wife, so he practices a form of polygamy. In reference to the tenth Guru being polyamerous, I feel as though it would be easyer for him to do so than any one of us, since we are householders. I am exploring this topic for the first time, my opinions can change. I say that if ones focus is the develpement of a home, then polygamy will add too much confution. The tenth Guru wed to four women, he is greater than I.
     
  13. saintnsipahi

    saintnsipahi
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    2
    Guru Fateh,


    I'm with a lesser Brain to say any thing about Our Tenth Guru. He is not only superior than a one but superior than any one living or dead of this Earth or of Else Where. If He got Married with 4 woman then how many of them produced Children. But for every Gursikh they are our MATA. We can't relate this topic to GURU GOBIND SINGH MAHARAJ at any cost. He hasn't done anything wrong in his life. He was full of Karizma. If we can relate this topic with HIM then why shouldn't we all do as little as 10% of all of his works. Because it is not easy for us. And what we can do easiely like Polygamy and eating of meat and offcoarse cutting of Hair. How can we relate this topic to our Tenth Guru. Any other thing of HIM we cannot adopt but we can relate this TOPIC with HIM. Shame for us.
     
  14. Arvind

    Arvind
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    379
    veer ji,

    Forget 10%, Even 0.10% is too much to ask for from we sinners. Waheguru saanu sumatt bakhshan.

    Regards.
     
  15. jsingh45

    jsingh45
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fateh all, I think we should introduce our tenth Guru into this topic,and why not? Was he not the one who organized the Khalsa, was he not also Guru and at the same time Disciple, can we not say he was what a perfect Sikh should hope to be? Should we not look to our father for our life lessons? Why do we shy away from these things, we must look at everything in sikhi to learn about it, not simply accept something at first glance without understanding why.
     
  16. saintnsipahi

    saintnsipahi
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    2







    bwrh mwhw mWJ mhlw 5 Gru 4 <> siqgur pRswid ]
    ikriq krm ky vICuVy kir ikrpw mylhu rwm ] cwir kuMt dh ids BRmy Qik Awey pRB kI swm ]

    Naa koi Bairyee Naa koi Beaganaa
    Sagal sang Hum Ko Bun Aayee II

    Dear arvindji, Thanks for supporting me. I wanted to be a True Selfless Gursikh. And You and your team is inspirational for me. We all Know about Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj a very little. Sri Krishan had given a view of His vast appearance to Arjun in Mahabharat. And after That Arjun surrendered to Him and rest is History. In our History if we can see then We find Baba Deep Singh Shaheed, Who had seen a vast and majestic appearance of Guru Kalgidhar. Thats why He was be able to perfom a such a superb devotion towards Guru Saheb. That made a History of a unbeatable kind of.
    Sri Krishan was known as 16 Kala Sampooran. But Our LORD Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj is Sarab Kala Sampooran. We are not able to see HIS this kind of appearance now. Because we don't know the meaning of surrender because we are living in 5 thieves world. In my view Baba Deep Singhji may not wanted to be in Sikhi Again because of our kind of Sikhs. As all Gursikhs are knowing of Guru Saheb And His Family. But at any cost we ara devalued to make a point on HIM like this. We can't see our sins and our contributions. But we can make any thing to Guru Saheb. If anybody has seen a portrait of a line of dead persons going to the Chitrgupat for getting Swarag Or Narak. And in that portrait every dead person is holding a bag on his back and they can't see at back. They are going straight only. The message in that When they are holding the bags on their back, they can see only others bag who is in front of them. That is the main problem of today's world also. Because we can't see ours but can see others sins.
    My wish is to, That every Gursikh can see the majestic charismatic Guru Gobind Singh.
    I'm sorry if me or any of my words are hurtful to any Gursikh, I'm regreted for that.



    bwrh mwhw mWJ mhlw 5 Gru 4 <> siqgur pRswid ]
    ikriq krm ky vICuVy kir ikrpw mylhu rwm ] cwir kuMt dh ids BRmy Qik Awey pRB kI swm ]
     
  17. roopsidhu

    roopsidhu
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    314
    SSA,
    Vijaydeep ji, the slok Giyani ji wrote is on ang number 788 of SGGS ji writen by Sri Guru Amardas ji.
    As quoted by vijay ji
    Well Das first of all wants to know the page number of the verse which Gyani Sahib Ji have are givng.
    It may mean for Akal and Bhakt or God or Devote and to one Husband Akal we all Devotess are are like Wifes but Akals light is in in us also.

    Here vijay ji asks the ang number and at the same time, even without reading that slok, started guessing (It may mean for Akal and Bhakt or God or Devote and to one Husband Akal we all Devotess are are like Wifes but Akals light is in in us also.)
    Veer ji be patient. Read the slok yourself and then reciprocate. The discussion you have started is very important and needs cool heads to think.
    bhul chuk maaf
    roopsidhu
     
  18. Lee

    Lee
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    377

    Hukam ji,
    I too have been thinking about this subject for a time, and what I find is that I can find no 'hukam' witihn Sikhi that bans such a thing. Of course personaly I would have to say that the reason one may contemplate polyimory has much to do with it.

    Is it okay for example to wed the window of your brother to bring her into the house to care for her and any dependants? That is, are the any rules strictly forbiding such a thing?
     
  19. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200


    Has it been stipulated in this discussion or anywhere else that Guru Gobind Singh had 4 wives at one time? I would appreciate seeing some credible evidence in this regard. Something akin to the evidence we have of the numbers of wives and concubines of Maharaja Ranjit Singh
    . Thanks to anyone who can answer my question, Narayanjot Kaur
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    In Sikhism, man and woman are equal. Which means the Asa Di Waar tuk
    BHAND MOO-AA BHAND BHALIYE can also be applicable to allowing widowed women to remarry.

    In the case of polygamy, if a man is not forbidden to have two wives,
    then a woman should also not be forbidden to have two husbands.
    If there is objection, where are the written laws?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. roopsidhu

    roopsidhu
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    314
    SSA,
    Agreed with namjap, In sikhism women are treated equal to men and also women had contributed same as men in the history of sikhism. Then why women shuls not have the same rights as men. They must be treated equal.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page