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Place of Idol Worship (pictures) in Sikhi

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by thesikhviewpoint, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. thesikhviewpoint

    thesikhviewpoint Reserved
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    As sikhs are we supposed to keep/hang pictures depicting as gurus in our homes???Is it not better that we should instead keep/hang pictures having only lines of gurbani so that when ever we see them we read the guru's word which is real worship a Sikh is supposed to do........
     
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    #1 thesikhviewpoint, Jul 12, 2012
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Place of Idol worship(pictures) in Sikhi

    GURBANI/SHABAD is GURU. PERIOD.
     
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  4. Ishna

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    It's not the pictures that are the problem, it's what you do with them. Having pictures is not a problem, Sikhs are not Muslims who aren't allowed any pictures of Muhammad at all. The problem is a lot of Sikhs get confused and worship pictures, bow to them, etc. If you can have a picture and see it as just a picture and not feel superstition towards it, no problem. But it is always good to have reminders of Gurbani around, too.
     
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  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Ishna Ji..would you be happy to hang a picture i send you that purports to be of YOUR DADDY/MOMMY JI ? Be reminded that the picture may not be remotely like your daddy and may even show him smoking/indulging in something he never did or discouraged actively ? And how would you feel IF all the guests to your house thought ..wow.your daddy looked like THAT ?? He really DID That too ??

    Guur Nanak ji never had a companion called Bala..yet many pictures show this person
    Guru nanak ji discourages use of Malas and rosaries as unnecessary props..yet his pictures show a MULTITUDE of maalas..on his turban, around his neck, in his hands etc

    Just a few examples...:grinningkudi::grinningkudi::grinningkudi::grinningkudi::grinningkudi:
     
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  6. Ishna

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    Sorry, I'm missing your point. A picture is still just a picture.

    I have two pictures of Guru Nanak - neither of them show him with malas. That's why I chose them.

    Oh and I don't bow to them or perform arti to them or pray in front of them. They are just pretty pictures. This in my opinion is a healthy relationship with artwork.

    Why do we have to make everything so over-complicated?
     
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  7. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Very clear point Gyanji.
    I have wondered about the malas and beads on these pictures that don't make too much sense.

    I understand the whole point of not worshipping or getting carried away with such pictures. But, I do like to have them in the house so that they are present and one can look at them whenever. I mean, we all know that having complete bare walls can be depressing and have no stimulus as such.
    But a picture of anything that pleases one, be that your hero, a pop star, a painting, artistic design or picture of a Guru- it is there to fulfill a human need of comfort.

    Now, that is what these pictures do for me, they give me comfort, they remind me of the values of the Gurus, they provide a connection between me and the creator.
    This is why, I like to have some, infact even my screensaver on this is a picture of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Why do I have that ? one may ask- Well, to me what better picture of someone could I have had if I didn't want any family or friends on there.

    Most of all, I think it helps with that little bit of a connection that one can lose subconsciously with the creator.- I don't ever regard it as a sacred symbol or anything, it's just there to give some comfort as a piece of art can for others.

    However, one has to be careful not to get attached to any false symbols of the image such as gurus holding malas etc... as Gyanji pointed out above.
     
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  8. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    NOTE- when I say that the picture can help give that llittle connection, that means it acts like a reminder as such. Just like when we may see a gurdwara whilst driving or on TV, a reminder that gives that sense of higher connection for a few seconds or minutes.
    It's just like an alarm that says wake up and detach yourself for a few moments from whatever you may e doing and instead connect with the lord.
     
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  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    ha Ha..over complicated indeed...I too used to have a picture of " baba nanak" hanging on my walls until just about every guest to my home used to look at it ans ask me....IS that your grand father..he looks so...holy...and when my Beard became WHITE..one guy asked me..wow that looks so much like you..where did you get it painted....

    So like kamalas Jis cow being milked by her servant ( so she doesnt know anything about how dairy cows can be mistreated or that cows ONLY give milk when the Calf is NOT allowed to drink it..) your pictures may be minus maalas..but many thousands are with maalas..and ALL are TOTALLY IMAGINARY.
    Bowing, feeling scared superstitious etc comes LATER as a BONUS to picture keeping...the POINT is Since our ONE and ONLY GURU is GURBANI..why over-complicate things by having IMAGINARY PAINTINGS..statues etc...

    GURBANI is very Clear that the HUMAN DEH is TRANSITORY..attach NO IMPORTANCE to IT...only PERMANENT THING is The CREATOR..FOCUS on HIM....period...but we find it extremely difficult to do THAT..and easy to focus..on imaginary paintings..gurus supposed slippers, shoes, cholas, bags, etc as IF the Guru only wore one pair of slippers, one chola etc thats why so many Gurdawras having all these "holy" objects...
     
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  10. Kamala

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  11. Harry Haller

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  12. Harry Haller

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    am a firm believer that Creator and Creation are much sidelined whilst those that wished to spread the message, have become the message, which, in my view was the opposite of what was preached,

    this I consider to be a beautiful picture, which is worthy of hanging up, and acts as a reminder as to what we should be doing, interacting with Creation, forgiving, advising, helping, loving, and respecting the basic tenants of Sikhism, no rituals, no idol worship, no magic mantras, no Kundalini posturing, just plain old truthful living.

    Although, give it a few more years, and I am sure the pictures will change, 100 years from now, Guru Nanak will probably have a few more arms, and a companion who is a giant turtle, in fact I can see the picture in my minds eye now. Maybe a 100 years ago, they were chuckling that Guruji would probably be depicted holding the very items he preached against.

    I know what I would rather have on my wall to remember Creator, I cannot see what the difference is between a picture of Elvis and the current depiction of the Gurus, neither represent the true image of the person concerned,
     
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  13. thesikhviewpoint

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    well,
    what i know about the history of these photos in Sikhism is:
    for some years darbar sahib was in control of baba's, nirmilaa's sect. and other such pseudo-sikh organisations. it was from 1905 when sikhs again got control of darbar sahib and found that most of the places in darbar sahib was occupied by idols and pictures of devi's and devta's...even most of the prikarmaa we see today was full of idols....in 1905 all these idols and photos were thrown out of darbar sahib complex by sikhs.....at this these pseudo-sikhs and like minded majority population vowed to introduce these idols in the shape of photos in every sikh's home.....thats why the concept of photos was never there in sikhs before 1905 and it took its peak after that....and now from last 5-6 years we can see these people have very cleverly introduced idols of sikh gurus (for keeping on car dash boards, office tables etc.) and the most tragic part of all these episodes is that most of sikhs get carried away by this false propaganda. and now i've seen many sikhs doing dooph/ aagarbatti in front of these photos and idols......so in simple words we are very cleverly being hollowed by these mischievous people and we are only sikhs of name but by practice we have changed to bhraminism.....regarding the fact that we say this gurdawara or that gurdawara is practicing such types of activities, i may like to request to all sikhs to use your brain which waheguru have provided you.....don't do and believe others (howsoever elder/intelligent they are). if you have doubt about anything or any practice consult gurbani youself. today we can find answer to almost any query on internet. regarding gurbani there are translations available (maybe no one is completely correct but are very helpful in clearing most of the doubts).
    now a days am in punjab and can see many sikh youngsters with cut hair and shaven faces and when we ask them why so they ask that bhai's in gurdawara sahib do all evil things after kirtan (what good is keeping hair and beard when they do evil things like drinking, cheating, bla bla..). but when i asked them that during school days we were having many classmates who were not intrested in studying and they failed many a times but we did not failed.......and as per such theory we should also have failed as our classmates failed??? when we did not followed those mates of ours then how come we are following these mates of ours now???? stop doing wrong things and justifying them by telling that others are doing the same.
    we came on this earth singly and we have to leave singly with our doings not with what others did.......so my dear brothers and sisters concentrate on your deeds and try to be a guru's sikh in practice and not in name only.mundahug
     
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  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    IN Punjabi we have a saying..Not worried about the Seha..but the peha...
    You see a Farmer may see a LONE Person walking through his fields (shortcut)...that Single person is not to be worried about...the worry comes when the farmer finds a SMALL Pathway...TRAIL winding through his fields....made by lots more walkers using the "shortcut"..soon bicycles will make the TRAIL wider..then MOTORCYCLES..then maybe small CARS..Four wheel drives...and then Maybe..LARGE TRUCKS....so What began with a SINGLE LONE PERSON taking a Shotcut..over time becomes a HUGE THOROUGHFARE..and the farmer holds his head in his hands...ruing the DAY he didnt STOP the FIRST SHORT CUT SEEKER invading his fields...

    Pictures..lead to figurines..small idols..big idols..and then may be even the SGGS may be just a STONE BOOK..just for matha teking since NO ONE opens it any more anyway...and people may keep such "Stone/GOLD SGGS" at home..as they do Guru nanks made of Gold steel etc TODAY...something which was unheard of 25 years back...BUT now VERY COMMON even in so called amritdharee homes..and GURDWARAS too !!!
     
  15. Ishna

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    The picture of Guru Nanak Ji in my wallet... He's got his hand raised with his palm facing outwards - it's a very common picture, I'm sure you've seen it.

    A few times, at home and at work, with family and colleagues I have good relationships with, when I have by chance had my wallet in my hand when I walked past, I've opened it up to Guru Nanak Ji's picture and said to the person, "Hey... Guru Nanak says hi!!" and waved the picture in front of them (cos it looks like Guruji is waving...). They giggle at that. :grinningkaur: It opens the door for conversation about Sikhi sometimes.
     
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  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    IN Malaysia when I was young..i used to see the Chinese come out to pray at their alters daily morning and evening..they would light joss sticks, and a small lamp (diva)..then the Chinese became richer..and this job was delegated to the Maid servant...and the clay diva became a steel lamp...Today the Diva is an AUTOMATIC ELECTRIC LAMP...which lights up automatically at Sunset..and goes off at dawn...and even the Maid is too busy washing multiple cars etc to do the praying...the Electric Joss sticks let out realistic smoke and shake as if being shaken by hands in prayer...my chinese friends call this ADVANCEMENT !!
    SIKHS in Guur Arjun Jis time used to move among the sangat waving huge fans,....or carry water pitchers form the river..sweep with brooms..Today the Sangat is cooled by AC/Ceiling fans..the SGGS is also kept cool via AC...the brooms are vacuum cleaners, water flows out of municipal pipes..Langgar is cooked and served by Paid Maids and Waiters or Catered by professional caterers...and Paaths are done by paid Paathis and ardass done by Paid ardassiahs. All a sikh needs is his CHECK BOOK...or even just a ON LINE Account if far away form the Gurdwara...he will get his paath done, hukmanmah by email. So Since he has got NOTHING to do..he assuages his conscience by PRAYING to a GURU IDOL in his bedroom..or on his car dashboard while the CD plays an MP3 japji sahib !! This is why millions of prayers, paaths, ardasses go UNANSWERED/UNFULFILLED...and leads to BABADOM/DERAS and Fake GURUS as a way out...
     
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  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    ISHNA JI..how cute...just the other day I passed a Khalsa Jis car..and on his back dashboard he had a idol of Guru nanak ( I suppose ) WAVING at the car drivers behind his car stuck in a traffic Jam...Others usually keep teddy bears, dogs, cats, stuffed tiger cubs etc or Pink panther etc..i suppose this Khalsa Ji thought it was better to have his GURU Waving and shaking his head...God Bless Him...winkingmunda
     
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  18. itsmaneet

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    "Gurbani hi Gurmurat Hai"
    Its a nice topic. In Sikhism we are not supposed to worship/bow our head/pray to stones, pictures etc. If we read Shri Jaap Sahib it explains numerous names of the God & one of them is God is formless. Things with a form are bound to die one day so how it can be a Guru.
     
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