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Philosopher's Stone

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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Tejwant Singh - good morning [06:53 UK]

Interesting way to look at things, especially the dance n the dancer. Those who know the dance n the dancer to be the one and the same albeit framed as an adjective n noun respectively, know surely, Nanak's nirgun n sargun.

As regards philosopher's stone LSD has done a wonderful job in providing excerpts from SGGSJ, which is self-explanatory.

ਗੁਰ ਪਾਰਸ ਹਮ ਲੋਹ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਹੋਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥
Gur pāras ham loh mil kancẖan ho▫i▫ā rām.
The Guru is the Philosopher's Stone; by His touch iron is transformed into gold.

ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਕਾਇਆ ਗੜੁ ਸੋਹਿਆ ਰਾਮ ॥
Joṯī joṯ milā▫e kā▫i▫ā gaṛ sohi▫ā rām.
My light merges into the Light and my body-fortress is so beautiful.

Taking it literally to mean that the Guru was the philosopher's stone and all the properties of the philosopher's stone [paras] were in the Guru, that is, able to "change" or "transform" the aspiring soul from human to spiritual. The paras or the magic to change and transform one from human to spiritual is vested in the shabd, word form, referred to as "sat saroop".

The Cornerstone of Sikh theology merges beautifully in parlance with "guru manao granth and panth". That is to say, for a 21st century Sikh, guru is both "Granth n Panth". Sikhi n Sikh Society must go hand in hand, that is, Bani Bana. This in truth is what " popular" Sikh thought is. The rightness n wrongness is never a moot point because this is a system of "belief". For me Guru Granth Sahib, with 1430 or 1429 pages wouldn't make a difference because I believe in the "word" and the word is "Waheguru". And, since beliefs vary, I'm aware of the diversity therein, regardless, I continue to honour both temporal and spiritual Sikh. That is not to say, I don't have reservations, I do indeed, but the drift of my text is, I accept Sikhi in its entirety without qualifications because that is how it was passed on to me. I want to preserve the naivety, the innocence, the grandeur, the beauty, the majesty of the social, cultural, traditional {censored}tail within which it evolved. Ardas in that respect for me is gospel and I believe in it cent percent. Who wrote it, where it was written etc. are academic arguments and accordingly must by convention be revisited for determination.

From both academic and conventional perspespectives, citing sources is a must, otherwise written word is of little substance. I've said to you in the past, if there'd be disagreements or misrepresentations within any of the Sikh literature then please provide references so that I'm able to explore. That way an academic research based project could be launched.

Moving on to Jap - I'll quickly brush over it, have a meeting to attend shortly.
Guru Nanak, after realising God had to let the world know of his new find, so, he chose to express it through, initially mool mantar followed by Japji Sahib. The form he used is indeed poetic, but in question n answer mode. So first of all, he makes a statement [preamble], declaring his God, form, characteristics, etc. Within his opening statement he also offers how his God is met or realised [gur prasad]. Following Gur prasad is Jap. What he is saying, in answer form is, " hey, soul chant repeat n keep repeating, mindset" - do jap and keep doing it [keep chanting keep repeating n meditate].

Then his 1st pauri starts with a question, ok, I've understood the mool mantar, but what do I meditate on ? Then he answers, "..ad sach, jug ad sach" that is, meditate on sat [satnam].

The word ‘Jap’ means to ‘recite’/‘to ‘chant’/'to stay focused onto'. Derived from Sanskrit "Japa" - subtle utterance. Throughout Gurbani its significance is attached to "nam" or shabd jap - hey manmukh recite the name of the Lord.

From a philosophical perspective [metaphysics] Nanak sealed, signed n delivered the whole of everything in his mool mantar. The entire SGGSJ is an explanation thereafter, literally speaking.

Enjoy the day !

Waheguru


Original Ji,

Just out of interest so that i know and understand you better...you probably gather from my posts that God Willing i do regular Amrit Vela, Simran, meditation etc...is this something that you also do? if so it would be good to have some discussions, maybe a new thread on this amazing journey that begins to manifest within us through this wonderful Seva of Simran.

God Bless


Thank you ji.
 

Original

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Original Ji,

Just out of interest so that i know and understand you better...you probably gather from my posts that God Willing i do regular Amrit Vela, Simran, meditation etc...is this something that you also do? if so it would be good to have some discussions, maybe a new thread on this amazing journey that begins to manifest within us through this wonderful Seva of Simran.

God Bless


Thank you ji.

Dearest Chaz

I'm all that yo say about yourself, but there is more. I understand you more than anyone else because, I am you. Our mother n father are "one" - satnam waheguru. Alone, God knows how many janam's Ive been meditating [to think, search, call out, believe in] but yes, jeevat marya bhav jal taryia [the art of dying], I'm blessed. Chaz, best I could describe the nature and the understanding of human life is like the casting of a pebble into the stillness of the lake and then watch the ripple-effect pan out further n further away. We're all in some respects, moving closer or further away, but essentially, moving. Meditation; reading a book is meditation, falling in love and thinking about her is meditation - our meditation is sitting in the lap of "shabd" - the only freedom there is in this deterministic universe.

You're a beautiful soul and have lot to offer - Bhagat Kabir's shabd on p1368 is a good way to start:

If I make the seven oceans my ink,
make the entire population of trees my pen,
make the flatness of the earth my paper,
even then I cannot fully praise thee O' God.

Take care -
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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Dearest Chaz

I'm all that yo say about yourself, but there is more. I understand you more than anyone else because, I am you. Our mother n father are "one" - satnam waheguru. Alone, God knows how many janam's Ive been meditating [to think, search, call out, believe in] but yes, jeevat marya bhav jal taryia [the art of dying], I'm blessed. Chaz, best I could describe the nature and the understanding of human life is like the casting of a pebble into the stillness of the lake and then watch the ripple-effect pan out further n further away. We're all in some respects, moving closer or further away, but essentially, moving. Meditation; reading a book is meditation, falling in love and thinking about her is meditation - our meditation is sitting in the lap of "shabd" - the only freedom there is in this deterministic universe.

You're a beautiful soul and have lot to offer - Bhagat Kabir's shabd on p1368 is a good way to start:

If I make the seven oceans my ink,
make the entire population of trees my pen,
make the flatness of the earth my paper,
even then I cannot fully praise thee O' God.

Take care -

love the analogy of the ripple...

god bless
 

Original

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love the analogy of the ripple...

god bless

...the ripples represent the levels of our consciousness relative to the pebble [shabd] in the middle.The proximity defines our spiritual prowess. It's when we surrender to the submerging sound of the pebble and let its sweet, soft, mournful strains be funnelled into our soul through physical vents, the effect leaves an everlasting smile of the Buddha.
 

Original

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Jan 9, 2011
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Pardon my ignorance, but would you be kind enough to elaborate it please what you mean by the above?
I was talking about the trance of the musical Gurbani on people/dancers. We are all dancers and we dance according to the strings within that Gurbani plays in us as individuals. These inner strings are one's own way one hears the musical Gurbani and dances accordingly. It is the inner dance.
Tejwant Singh, from a physicist perspective, the human body is a field of invisible vibrations [interaction between waves n particles] and "Teji" is a musical note on a violin string [metaphor]. That is to say, Tejwant is both the dance [adjective] and the dancer [noun] moved by energy [Ik ong kar].
Original ji, you must have noticed that this Shabad by our 4th Guru Ram Das starts on page 1113, ਤੁਖਾਰੀ ਛੰਤ ਮਹਲਾ ੪. It is complied in 4 stanzas of Sestets-6 line poems. The important thing to notice in this shabad is what it says in the beginning which is: ਛੰਤ. Let's focus on this word. ਛੰਤ which means to praise- ਵਡਿਆਈ. Most of the times in the SGGS, ਛੰਤ is used in the beginning of the Shabad with the name of the Raag to explain what the Shabad is about like in the above which is sung in Raag ਤੁਖਾਰੀ but Guru Sahib has also used it in Gurbani as well. Here is one from page 254:
Paras is synonymous with the Alchemist of the west. Gur Ghar is absolutely clear -

ਗੁਰ ਪਾਰਸ ਹਮ ਲੋਹ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਹੋਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥
Gur pāras ham loh mil kancẖan ho▫i▫ā rām.

The Guru is the Philosopher's Stone; by His touch iron [human] is transformed into gold [spiritual]. Doesn't need interpretation, gur paras [guru is philosopher stone] hum loha [I'm iron].

Literal interpretation means to give words their ordinary signification. For example, "Neil Armstrong landed on the moon in 1969", this is a statement of fact accepted throughout the modern world. The same statement read in 1000 years time when much of our solar system will be colonised by humankind cannot be read to mean the moon of Saturn.
Forgive me for taking liberty by using your own words from the other thread regarding my presentation of Sikhi to HLS. I would like you to explain the above for the following reasons given by you. Where did you get the above from?
After Guru Teg BahadhurJi it was Guru Gobind - Guru of Sikh. Guru Gobind conferred guruship on SGGSJ,[granth] and panj pyara [panth]. This meant the state [panth] was greater than the Guru. Guru Ji was visionary - knew what he was doing, weren't gonna leave us to be shepherd around by "one" man rule.
For me the "word" is not "Waheguru" which is ਛੰਤ as explained above like "Wowguru"!
My allegiance is to my faith, Sikh. Whatever word is used to mean whatever, I'll accept it with an open heart, without qualification.

Is gospel the word you used for your westernised version of Sikhi? Pun intended. :)

Having said that, I am sorry to say I have no idea what you mean by above and it does not answer any of my questions about Ardaas as I have posted in my post. These are not academic arguments but questions based on Gurmat values given to us by our Gurus in SGGS, our only Guru.

Gospel is a figure of speech for me [UK] meaning "honestly". Ardas for me is "chardi kala" - who wrote it doesn't matter to me, in fact how universal and humanitarian sarbat da bhalla is.

Tej, your contribution as a Sikh is beyond measure - I wish you the very best. With me, I'm old wine in a new bottle and want to hold on to what I've inherited from my ancestors, Waheguru Satnam.

Thank you and Godbless !
 

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