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Parents Want Me To Marry A Woman Despite Me Being Gay. FEASIBLE ?

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by Seeker2013, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    I was feeling very very hopeless and depressed today evening coming back from gurudwara sahib. When I came home, my mom saw me visibly upset totally and my mom dad insisted I tell them whats the reason. I was emotionally feeling built up on the inside and then it poured out. My parents tried to calm me as I was sobbing.

    I had told them earlier too but again once told them I have no interest in girls.
    they just ask one question "ur not a namard (impotent) are u ?" I usually reply back "I can give you a grandchild."
    and that usually placates them , as if thats the only 'raison detre' behind marriage.

    YEAH ! lets throw away the romance, emotional connection away, esp in the year 2015 where heterosexuals run amok with their romance and put it on big hoarding boards for a product (you call them advertisements and marketing , ok ! ) not to mention its ubiquitous . I can't walk 5 minutes away from my home without bumping into a 20-something guy and a girl holding hands. karo raaj ! and please don't forget to take a piss on us sexual minorities because you guys are the majority. ok , sorry for the rant but it comes naturally to someone who feels utterly hopeless.

    They think I will somehow start to love her. They think they now understand my problem but they don't even when I added "I like men" . oh yeah ! I mean they didn't even hear that part, and they don't even want to hear it . why ? its inconvenient .

    so now they want to take me to a sexologist and my dad even says it doesn't matter whether i love her or not , its enough that i will get cooked food, cleaned clothes, a child, <insert other 100 things married men get>

    meanwhile mom says her life would be a waste if she died without seeing the face of a grandchild. I think my fate is written as a romantic gay men stuck in a straight marriage and who has flings with men on the side when his wife isn't looking .

    I know people will say but why should I screw the life of an innocent girl. I am so callused by the 'heterosexual persecution' now that I rarely even consider that 'wrongdoing' . I mean the day you mocked a 'fag' , u set up a system in which 'fags' will marry your sisters and daughters . *sorry if it hurts, its the truth*

    so if I married a girl, do you think thats a better option ? or does that seem like a disaster from your rose-tinted glasses ?
     
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    #1 Seeker2013, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
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  3. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    24 views and not a single answer .

    people who used to reply 'actsofgod' , harry haller, chaz singh also don't reply
    I guess people given up on me already .
     
  4. Ishna

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    Perhaps you can try re-reading some of your previous threads about this topic. People have given you a lot of advice already.
     
  5. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    The only different idea I can come up with is to marry a compatible lesbian or asexual woman who would be willing to spend a lifetime playing games. You could have kids by turkey baster insemination and her ob/gyn could be confused about her virgin birth. I know how ridiculous this sounds, but I have seen it work, after a fashion, for a couple of couples back in the day when being a LG was a social death sentence.
    Of course, this is still living a lie and I couldn't endorse an anand karaj, but it is an option, sort of.
     
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  6. Seeker2013

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    my mom dad insist I marry compulsorily because at some point in life I will be left alone with no one to look after me. And I understand their concern , even I don't want to be all single all life, but I don't know whether marriage and a child will make me happy.

    People often say "Marriage of convenience is a lie, its not cool, blah blah" . as if I have any other option ??
     
    #5 Seeker2013, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  7. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    If you stay in India, your choices are vey limited. If you want to marry a man, it is now legal in many countries. You might try Ireland or Argentina.

    I doubt that would please your parents, though.
     
  8. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    if u marry and try it will change for the better. try it but you have to try sexually witht the girl intently
     
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  9. swarn bains

    swarn bains United States
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    if u marry and try it will change for the better. try it but you have to try sexually witht the girl intently
     
  10. Seeker2013

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    what does this mean ?? wouldn't the girl know I am not intersted in her as my body won't show any physical signs of arousal .
     
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  11. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    hey seeker ji...

    sorry my good friend for not replying...but with some things you kind of just need to follow your heart...

    you're living with a lot of fear...fear of the future, fear of the unknown...

    the only thing that has taken away my own fear...is Simran. the transformation comes from within...

    to become fearless is to do what you feel is right...and no fear of losing family, friends, possibility of marriage, kids, or anything as a result of doing the right thing...

    from a sikhi point of view, if you want to be in the right frame of mind to reap the benefits of divine qualities like fearlessness, patience, perseverance, truthfulness, forgiveness etc etc etc....you will have to do what Guru Ji is guiding you to do.
     
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  12. Seeker2013

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    u mean I shud follow the hukamnamas I take or shud I take amrit and 5 Ks?

    I want to throw my problems on him as I have full faith in him. He has helped me get a job better than I expected, it was no short of a miracle to me. Throughout the journey, I felt his parent-like presence with me.
    I don't wish to lose that presence ever . I just hope he's with me forever

    for my sexuality, I have noticed , this hukamnama came quite often
    (I don't know what to make of it . may waheguru help me understand it)

    ਟੋਡੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ ਦੁਪਦੇ
    Todee, Fifth Mehl, Fifth House, Du-Padas:

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    ਐਸੋ ਗੁਨੁ ਮੇਰੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜੀ ਕੀਨ
    Such is the blessing my God has bestowed upon me.

    ਪੰਚ ਦੋਖ ਅਰੁ ਅਹੰ ਰੋਗ ਇਹ ਤਨ ਤੇ ਸਗਲ ਦੂਰਿ ਕੀਨ ਰਹਾਉ
    He has totally banished the five evils and the illness of egotism from my body. ||Pause||

    ਬੰਧਨ ਤੋਰਿ ਛੋਰਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਤੇ ਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੇਰੈ ਹੀਅਰੈ ਦੀਨ
    Breaking my bonds, and releasing me from vice and corruption, He has enshrined the Word of the Guru's Shabad within my heart.

    ਰੂਪੁ ਅਨਰੂਪੁ ਮੋਰੋ ਕਛੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਓ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਗਹਿਓ ਮੋਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗ ਭੀਨ ॥੧॥
    The Lord has not considered my beauty or ugliness; instead, He has held me with love. I am drenched with His Love. ||1||

    ਪੇਖਿਓ ਲਾਲਨੁ ਪਾਟ ਬੀਚ ਖੋਏ ਅਨਦ ਚਿਤਾ ਹਰਖੇ ਪਤੀਨ
    I behold my Beloved, now that the curtain has been torn away. My mind is happy, pleased and satisfied.

    ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਸੋਈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਧੀਨ ॥੨॥੧॥੨੦॥
    My house is His; He is my God. Nanak is obedient to His Lord and Master. ||2||1||20||


    but I don't understand it in context of my situation. I firmly believe SGGS can never fail in answering our questions. I am sure answer is somewhere in these 8 lines
     
  13. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    this is a shabad describing the 'end goal' ... seeing and hearing the presence of Waheguru within you...his love, his shabad - deep within your self...no more feeling lonely...you know now your body contains you/Him - one...

    the Shabad describes something so beautiful, so profound, so intoxicating...the discovery of waheguru, right there in your home (body) ... how would you feel if you were at this point? would you care so mcuh about your sexuality? about your fear of life, what people think of you...

    whilst the world is running around confused in Maya, you have uncovered the greatest secret of life...the invisible behind the visible...

    for you...you must try to follow waheguru's command to the best of your knowledge and understanding and thirst to feel the same as what is described in the above shabad.

    i tell you 100% if you want to get there...Guru ji will take your hand...it can be in an instance...or it can be over time...but a unique path for you..

    my life changed when one day i closed my eyes and started doing Simran...heart was pounding...i poured my heart out...i didn't know where to turn....and then all of a sudden....Boom...things just started happening...and then i wanted to do more and more simran because i couldn;t believe this stuff was real....and then my attitude towards life changed...i knew no matter what happens...i can always close my eyes and see, hear and feel Him...

    this won;t make much sense...it doesn't make much sense to me as well :) ... you end up going with the flow, trusting in the process...but you just need to start somewhere...and do some of everything else like seva and sharing your time and money when you can...
     
  14. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    what do u mean 'things started happening' ? u mean things in your life started to work in your favor ?
    also can I maintain the connection I feel to guru ji now even if I cut my hair and not wear turban ?
     
  15. ActsOfGod

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    I'm not sure how I can answer this question. The motive behind this question demonstrates an ignorance of the Sikh way of life and the Sikh worldview.

    There are other, deeper issues you need to be looking at rather than your physical appearance.

    There is a lot of incongruency in the things you say. For example, on the one hand, you say that you love Guru Sahib, but then in the same sentence you say that you want to disavow yourself of being the Guru's Sikh (cut hair, etc.)

    I feel that you need to spend some more time studying Sikhi and learning more about it, rather than just treat Guru like someone you can get things from when it's convenient for you. Following Sikhi is extremely difficult, and you're not doing Guru Sahib a favor by being a Sikh. It's the other way around.

    In regards to all the worldly challenges you are facing (dealing with your job situation, your social circle, your family issues and primarily your sexuality), you need to remember that ALL of it will just disappear when you die. It will all just go away like a puff of smoke. All these things you're agonizing about so much, will be gone in an instant. None of it will even matter anymore.

    So now just think for a moment. In the last 24 hours, you have spent all the time in thoughts of anguish, emotional turmoil, anger, lust, self-pity, longing, pain and a whole host of other emotions. You have even gone to take Hukamnama's asking Guru Sahib to change your sexual orientation. You are asking and begging Guru Sahib for a lot of things, but what have YOU offered to Guru? Nothing. And you even want to dispose of the gifts that Guru Sahib bequeathed to you (unshorn hair). And you still expect Guru Sahib to do what you're asking him (change your sexual orientation, make you happy, give you worldly success, put smiles on the faces of your parents). And yet, you haven't spent even a moment of the last 24 hours in meditative remembrance, in gratitude, saying thanks for all the gifts that you have been given. You talk about being denied happiness and pleasure, but what about those people lying in hospital beds who are struggling to even breathe. And yet here you are, God had given you so many free breaths since your birth, it is such a precious gift! Have you even once said shukrian for the gift of breath, the gift of life, the gift of health and intelligence?

    Can you see how selfish you have been?

    It's all just "I want, I want, I want". Like a 2-year old.

    Our days on this planet are numbered. Gurbani tells us that we are here to fulfill our purpose, we must remember our Creator and give gratitude for this precious human birth. Have you been doing that? Or have you just been so wrapped up in your worldly problems that you forgot to even say thanks to God?

    The real answer to your problem doesn't lie in trying to change your sexual orientation. Why do you hate what you are so much? You are so filled with self-loathing, it's painful to see. You don't need to hate yourself. You must come to terms with yourself and learn to love yourself. God in His wisdom has created all creatures. God created you, and there is a reason for it. Be grateful to God.

    You don't need to ask Guru Sahib to change your sexual orientation. You need to ask Guru Sahib for enough wisdom to be able to learn to accept His Will and live in his bhana. You are not there yet, my dear brother. You're not there yet.

    It would be a good idea to seek out someone local who can offer you specific advice on how to deal with particular issues. Look for a counselor or a therapist who is familiar with your situation.

    [AoG]
     
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  16. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    AoG has writen a powerful post....read it and think about it...

    Listen...when I poured my heart out to god...I..like you wanted something changing in my life...I was going through some dukh. But...for many years I was also really getting into reading gurbani and being enticed by the idea that I could experience waheguru....in this lifetime...so when the dukh occurred I realised it's time to put effort into seeking the truth in life...the world isn't giving me the full story...I need to seek it myself.

    Also I realised the dukh was showing me the fakeNess of the world....waheguru was showing me the false world...it was a blessing you see...

    Never the less...I believe in simran...even if your intention is for worldly change...I know simran can change everything for you...for your circumstances..and for your mind frame...

    You see...two people can see the same thing and yet respond to it differently ... so your intention to turn to god might be to change your life because of your fears of your sexuality...or your suffering in other ways...but what might come out the other end is a new you...that is able to handle things better...to see the world in a different way

    So whether AoG or anyone else thinks your not ready for Sikhi. ..I would say start doing your daily simran. ..your seva etc.

    When I say things started happening..I mean real true experience of waheguru within you...undeniable experiences that validate the authenticity of waheguru...of gurbani

    I belive if you seek it...it will happen...

    Just do it my good friend...Naam is the cure to everything ... full stop...never lose sight of that...but the cure might not be in ways that you think it will be...e.g your sexuality may not suddenly change...but you may experience life in ways your sexuality just doesn't matter so much anymore ...

    Enjoy the ride if life...the struggles and joys with guru at heart always...
     
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    #15 chazSingh, Oct 15, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
  17. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    Let me say in advance everything I reply to your post , please don't take it personally and I certainly DON'T reply to confront you. I am just putting across my point. Thanks .

    Yet again , we're confusing between a 'sikh' and a 'khalsa' , aren't we ! sigh .
    Sikh means a student, a follower. Guru Gobind Singh ji created khalsa panth, but he also created nirmala panth and perhaps others. Panth means 'way' . And guru ji also said
    "khalsa mero roop hai khaas, khalsa meho karo niwaas", right ?
    it means "(while all other forms are also mine) but khalsa as a way and a form is special most to me, and in it I reside"
    note he said "khaas" (special) , a word that indicates that there are other lesser 'khaas' roops as well !

    kes is primal kakaar among 5 kakaars.
    but then again its a sign of khalsa, and while every khalsa is a sikh, not every sikh is a khalsa ! IMPORTANT POINT the whole kaum has forget today !

    My Guru Is Guru granth sahib and nowhere in it is written that a sikh ought to keep hair .
    I am sorry if I sound stupid to you , I might not be your level yet but thats what I interpret it as !

    Having said this I am not insulting towards amritdharis . I do respect them for the respect of the outward symbols of Guru Gobind Singh ji that they wear with perseverence .
    However, and again this is important, I have been growing up hearing in gurudwaras that gurmukh is someone who wear 5Ks and is amritdhari and manmukh by definition is someone who cuts his hair .
    It could be that the amritdhari with 5K is busy with corruption, lust and other things and the manmukh is actually the one who wakes up at 4 am to read baani.
    but then again , that rarely cared to us at personal level or kaum level.

    We made such simplistic defintions of sikhi . We totally confused between sikhi and khalsa and we saw the result at personal and community level . The 'patits' , the 'manmukhs' and other terms we used for otherwise innocent (and perhaps curious) non-khalsa sikhs drove them away from sikhi.
    We could have said "it could be he's not keeping his kes, but maybe atleast the love for guru has sprouted in him. Fine we will start with it" but we started with the reverse approach : first outside, then inside .

    and we saw the results ! 'patit / manmukhs' went away and 'gurmukhs' became egoistical .
    I maybe totally wrong but thats what I feel at times.


    why do you assume brother ? :)
    it could be I woke up amritvela today . it could be I thank him everytime I go to gurdwara. lets not assume I am unthankful.

    I grew up in the 90s when the guilt-trip sikhi was very famous. I saw it all in front of me, though it rarely worked . Sikhi should come out of pyaar IMHO, not by shaming or other ways.



    self-loathing ? hate myself so much ?

    yeah when i was a 13-yr old little boy who felt attracted towards his same-sex peer, I didn't knew back then even in worst of my nightmares that i wil regret my sexuality just 12 yrs later !
    I liked the way I felt and thats because there was no society and " straight " people to make me feel bad for who I am . back then I didn't knew that I would have little rights for who I am .
    I was made to hate myself and be scared of who I am by normals like you and your other 98% (read 'straight') who're hypocrite enough to use contraceptives but then say gays are unnatural because their sex doesn't lead to children.
     
  18. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    it reminds me of story of bhagat fareed ji and bhagat dhroo ji
    bhagat prahlad just offered namaz becoz his mother told him god will give him sugar but after a while he forget the aim of his prayer , sugar
    and bhagat dhroo who initially started his meditation for his right to sit in his fathers lap
     
  19. ActsOfGod

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    To be clear, I didn't state that Seeker was not ready for Sikhi. I said that he is not at the point yet where he is accepting the Will/Hukam of the Creator.

    [AoG]
     
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  20. chazSingh

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    majority of us are not at that point...even if we think we are...
    walking into the darkness is required...to understand the light .... I dont think His will can be understood unless you experience that Duality and then see what encapsulates it...then we accept His will because we see the truth....all is Waheguru..
     
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  21. ActsOfGod

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    There is an issue with this argument. The people who keep saying "Show me where it's written in the Guru Granth Sahib!" are acting as if Guru Granth Sahib is a rule book where all the rules are written and you will follow only if it's written in there. You're failing to understand the foundations of Sikhi.

    Furthermore, you're not even following what is written in SGGS!

    What is this even supposed to mean!?

    You have so many judgements against Amritdhari's. Do you not think that EVERYONE, (so-called Amritdhari's and non-Amritdhari's both) are susceptible to corruption, lust, & etc?

    So how did this work out for you? Your current state is that you want to cut your hair. So which direction are you moving in? First inside, then inside?

    Well, you claim you are. But I was not just assuming with no basis. What you say, your state of mind, your emotions, etc. all betray you. A person who is grateful cannot be depressed. This is known. So if you are depressed, it means you have not done gratitude in the way that I am speaking of. I think ChazSingh would be able to explain this better, as he is a living example of this.

    There never was, and never will be any shaming or guilt-tripping from me. I just call a spade a spade. I have seen numerous posts from you, and it's always the same. You are not taking responsibility for your life. At some point we all need to grow up.

    Yea you just answered your own question. Re-read what you just wrote. A person who loves himself will not regret anything about the way he is, including his sexual orientation.

    What constitutes "normal"? Being heterosexual is hardly a criteria. And before you accuse me "and others like me" of being the cause of your problems, better to look inside and see what your own thought patterns are.

    You have a lot of self-growth to do. I don't mean this in a negative way, I'm just trying to show you where all these issues are stemming from. Your situation is not hopeless or helpless. But you must begin with yourself. If you keep blaming the world around you, you'll never make any real progress.

    I hope you find the peace that you are so desperately seeking.

    [AoG]
     
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