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Nitnem Bani's - Rushing Through Them

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by kaur-1, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. kaur-1

    kaur-1
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    A general question on reciting Nitnem Bani's.

    Why do people rush through Nitnem bani recitation like "speedy Gonzales" without full concentration or truly understanding what they are reciting.

    Isnt it therefore better to recite just the amount of Gurbani one can concerntrate on.?

    And the Gurbanis that one cant concerntrate on whilst reciting, just listen to them instead (on CD or mp3 player)?
     
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  3. skeptik

    skeptik
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    discipline, kaur. ppl do things out of discipline.
     
  4. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected kaur Ji,

    Unfortunately we have 95% people do the task of "speedy Gonzales".
    This practice is useless. Remembring God even for a moment with true heart is far far better than reciting through Nitnem without understanding a word.


    If Bani is being read to understand what is written and to remind us GuruJi’s Teachings; it will help. So living the teaching has to be the motive of reading. If it is done for the sake of reading only, one is wasting time.

    Repetition of the same is necessary to make it a habit. If this is the purpose of reading-well and good.

    Another Important Point to Note here is Knowledge Alone is of no value until it is Lived.


    Waheguru Sadaa Sahaee
     
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  5. ssira

    ssira
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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
    vwihgrUjI kw Kwlsw vwihgrUjI kI Pqh[

    I agree with that the Bani should be recited with understanding and listening what you are saying. To keep the concentration for such a long time is not possible for every individual without being a saint Sant Sadhu or Gursikh. This is ultimate goal to achieve. What I disagree with you to call this as total waste of time. In between while reciting BANI one can concentrate on what is being read. I will encourage to read regularly even when one is not concentrated as the BANI is Kanth (Means you can read without looking/Remembered)

    The word concentrate is easer said than done. Lot of practice is required to achieve the goal. Calling it waste of time is very discouraging.

    Here is what can be done to to achieve this. Before starting PATH,say this prayer from your heart.

    Dhan sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Dhan sri Guru Gobind Singh, Dhan sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Kirpa karpe shabad ate surt da milaap krana ji Bani da Bhab Arth hirde wich Vase. Kirpa karke bani pardan di aagia bkhsho ji.

    Dn isrI gru nwnk dv jI, Dn isrI gru gibd isG jI, Dn isrI gru grQ swihb jI, ikrpw kr ky Sbd Aqy srq dw imlwp krwnw jI[[ bwnI dw Bwv ArQ ihridAW ivc bsyjI[[ ikrpw kr ky bwnI pVn dI AwigAw bKSo jI.


    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
    vwihgrUjI kw Kwlsw vwihgrUjI kI Pqh[


    Please ignore any spelling mistake.
     
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  6. vsgrewal48895

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    Dear All,

    I rushed through my nit name in my mind with out paying attention for 20 years from the age of 12 to 32. I started reading AGGS in 1964 the same way and it took me 1 year to read through, rushed most of the time.

    In 1974 I had a dream where Guru Gobind Singh Ji came in my dream on a horse and advised me to read AGGS loudly. I asked why? He responded that by loudly reading another sense of ears get involved and helps in concentration. Since then I recite AGGS loudly. But now I read only 1-2 pages. I had rushed through at least 55 times but since last 5 times I try to understand each word.

    From the last 10 years I listen to my nit name from my PC very loud. I may not be concentrating but when ever I come to a hymn/word that I do not know the meaning. The nit name goes on and I try to understand that hymn through dictionaries and translations. Even I understand one hymn a day-I consider it to be profitable. Living through is being tried very enthusiastically but the worldly things come as a big block despite the effort very often.

    ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸਿਧ ਪੀਰ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਾਥ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਧਰਤਿ ਧਵਲ ਆਕਾਸ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਦੀਪ ਲੋਅ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਪੋਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕਾਲੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਗਤਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਿਗਾਸੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਕਾ ਨਾਸੁ

    Suṇi­ai siḏẖ pīr sur nāth. Suṇi­ai ḏẖaraṯ ḏẖaval ākās. Suṇi­ai ḏīp lo­a pāṯāl. Suṇi­ai pohi na sakai kāl. Nānak bẖagṯā saḏā vigās. Suṇi­ai ḏūkẖ pāp kā nās.

    On listening the Word- one could obtain the status of the Siddhas, the spiritual teachers, the heroic warriors, the yogic masters, the knowledge of Lord’s creations of the earth, its support and the skies, oceans, the lands of the world and the nether regions of the underworld. On listening even the death cannot even touch you. O Nanak, the devotees are forever in bliss. Listening-pain and sin are erased. ||8||

    ਸੁਣਿਐ ਈਸਰੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਇੰਦੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਮੁਖਿ ਸਾਲਾਹਣ ਮੰਦੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਤਨਿ ਭੇਦ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸਾਸਤ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਵੇਦ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਗਤਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਿਗਾਸੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਕਾ ਨਾਸੁ

    Suṇi­ai īsar barmā inḏ Suṇi­ai mukẖ sālāhaṇ manḏ. Suṇi­ai jog jugaṯ ṯan bẖėḏ. Suṇi­ai sāsaṯ simriṯ vėḏ. Nānak bẖagṯā saḏā vigās. Suṇi­ai ḏūkẖ pāp kā nās.

    Listening to the Word one can obtain the status of gods like, Shiva, Brahma and Indra. On listening to the Word, even foul-mouthed people praise the Lord; learn the technology of Yoga and the secrets of the body. On listening one can gain the knowledge of the Shaastras, the Simritees and the Vedas. O Nanak, the devotees are forever in bliss and on listening-pain and sin are erased. ||9||

    ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਅਠਸਠਿ ਕਾ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਮਾਨੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਲਾਗੈ ਸਹਜਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਗਤਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਿਗਾਸੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਕਾ ਨਾਸੁ

    Suṇi­ai saṯ sanṯokẖ gi­ān. Suṇi­ai aṯẖsaṯẖ kā isnān. Suṇi­ai paṛ paṛ pāvahi mān. Suṇi­ai lāgai sahj ḏẖi­ān. Nānak bẖagṯā saḏā vigās. Suṇi­ai ḏūkẖ pāp kā nās.

    Listening to the Word one can attain the virtues of truth, contentment and spiritual wisdom. By listening one can cleanse the inner filth equal to taking bath at the sixty-eight places of pilgrimage. On listening reading and reciting It, honor, concentration on mind as well intuitively grasp the essence of meditation. O Nanak, the devotees are forever in bliss and on listening pain and sin are erased. ||10||
    ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸਰਾ ਗੁਣਾ ਕੇ ਗਾਹ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸੇਖ ਪੀਰ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਅੰਧੇ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਰਾਹੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਹਾਥ ਹੋਵੈ ਅਸਗਾਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਗਤਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਿਗਾਸੁ ਸੁਣਿਐ ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਕਾ ਨਾਸੁ ੧੧

    Suṇi­ai sarā guṇā kė gāh. Suṇi­ai sėkẖ pīr pāṯisāh. Suṇi­ai anḏẖė pāvahi rāhu. Suṇi­ai hāth hovai asgāhu. Nānak bẖagṯā saḏā vigās. Suṇi­ai ḏūkẖ pāp kā nās. ||11||

    Listening to the Word/Naam, one dives deep into the ocean of virtues. By listening to the Word one attain the status of Sheikhs, religious scholars, spiritual teachers and emperors. By listening, even the blind find the Path and The Unreachable and Unfathomable Lord comes within your grasp. O Nanak, the devotees are forever in bliss and pain and sin are erased. ||11||

    ਤੀਰਥੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਇਆ ਦਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਿਲ ਕਾ ਮਾਨੁ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਭਾਉ ਅੰਤਰਗਤਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਮਲਿ ਨਾਉ ਸਭਿ ਗੁਣ ਤੇਰੇ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ

    Ŧirath ṯap ḏa­i­ā ḏaṯ ḏān. Jė ko pāvai ṯil kā mān. Suṇi­ā mani­ā man kīṯā bẖā­o. Anṯargaṯ ṯirath mal nā­o. Sabẖ guṇ ṯėrė mai nāhī ko­ė. viṇ guṇ kīṯė bẖagaṯ na ho­ė.

    Pilgrimages, austere discipline, compassion and charity -these, by themselves, bring only an iota of merit. Listening and acceptance of the Word with love and humility cleanse the inner filth by pilgrimage of the sacred shrine deep within. All virtues are Yours, Lord, I have none at all. Without virtue, there is no devotional worship.


    Cordially,


    Virinder S. Grewal
    Williamston, MI
     
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  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Virinder Ji, Gurfateh.

    My sentiments exactly. In my case Guru Gobind Singh ji came visibly to a SECOND PERSON. I was on an Akhand Paath raol in A Gurdwara at 2 am..and a sevadar was lying down in the Darbaar in front of me and resting....suddenly we both heard the sound of a horse neighing...and the sevadaar felt a wet tongue on his arm....he looked up ran out of the darbar sahib..and saw GGS on His horse. Later when he asked me whether i noticed anything i replied.yes i heard a horse neigh..and stamping its hooves..then he told me his experience....btw he passed away on Hemkunt mountain on ajourney...his relatives had a tough tiem bringing his body down...but imho he sure died a happy man...
    BTW I always read out SGGS LOUD..no matter if I am alone or not...have never whispered any Bani ever..even while travelling in a bus/train/plane...always LOUD and clear. I have given my personal experience about GGS in another thread..in an encounter with a budhist monk/swami and mullah while travelling on a plane to India a long time ago..

    Affectionately
    Jarnail singh:welcome:
     
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  8. vsgrewal48895

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    Thank you very much Giani Ji for sharing your spiritual experiences. This is what this forum is all about IMHO.

    Regards to you and Deep.

    Cordially,

    Virinder S. Grewal
     
  9. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Allow me to put my hand in the hornet's nest, glove less. SGGS does not dictate us to do any Nitnem. Our Gurus ask us through SGGS to understand Gurbani so we can use it as tools to make our lives more fruitful. And we all know fruits can only be collected if seeds are sown. If they are just thrown then they are only good for the birds to feed, a useless utility because birds are taught by Ik Ong Kaar to look for food for survival. However, SRM does require Nitnem from all those who have taken Khandei De pahul.

    I have seen people in my own family whenever I visit them, both ladies and gentlemen busy in their morning -rush chores rushing through Nitnem as most of them know it by heart. And at times if they miss it for some reason they feel guilty all day long. This has happened many times and I tell them then that this is the only time they remember Ik Ong Kaar in reality when they miss doing Nitnem, otherwise it is all mechanical, like driving a car, eating a donut or 2, putting the eyeliner and rouge on at traffic stops and answering the cell phone while Nitnem is being played on the cd because kids had to be made ready for school before rushing to work.

    This way I see Nitnem. It is the daily planner of Piri so, one can conduct one's life of Miri based on it. If we just take a glance at our planner without knowing what has to be accomplished for the day, then the whole day is wasted, gone astray, directionless. As we have been doing the Nitnem in this manner for so many years, we can count the days on our abacuses.This is our life as adults and at the same time we also want our children to understand Gurbani, know Paath so they can become good Miri-Piri citizens since they start their kindergarten.

    Now here comes the screaming thought from the head. Radical changes are needed and they can be done individually in the households so people who define/mold SRM can have some practical input because the main objective is to understand Gurbani and put it into practice.There is no other objective or any other goal than this.

    The description of Nitnem should be changed to make it practical so that Gurbani can become comprehensible to all. Mere chanting it has not brought anything good to us as adults except a self pat at the back.

    Gurbani like japji, anand Sahib , Rehraas and Sohila should be created in the good musical forms so it can be sung easily by all, young and old.

    New tools should be invented/disovered so the understanding of Gurbani takes place along with chanting in families and in Gurdwaras so that the true essence of- Gaviei, suniei,munn rakhei bhao can be created,hence instilled.

    Before taking Khandei de pahul there should be a written and oral exam on Gurmat knowledge of the Baanis of the Nitnem. Nitnem does not have to have 5 banis. It should have enough so all banis recited are understood to the core so they can be put into practice in our daily lives of Miri-Piri. They should act as our manuals of betterment which will in result make everything better we do in the real world.

    Once this starts, then only we can raise true Sikhs from Kindergarten onwards because we are giving them the tools that they can use from the very beginning.

    If not, then we shall remain proud Hinduised Sikhs with Baana busy in idol worshiping and self patting our backs.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  10. vsgrewal48895

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    Dear Teji Ji,

    I agree with your spiritual conclusions with or with out SRM. In this respect I wrote "The Way We Live" and Sikh Psyche". Akal Purkh should be remembered with every breath and morsal of food means to be kept in mind and is repeatdly referred in Sabd Guru. But it does not mean one should not pay attention to his/her daily duties.

    ਸਿਮਰਉ ਦਿਨੁ ਰੈਨਿ ਸਾਸ ਗਿਰਾਸਾ ॥

    Simra▫o ḏin rain sās girāsā.

    Remember Akal Purkh in heart, all the time. (Literally it can be translated as day and night, with every breath and every morsel of food.) -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 177-15

    Cordially,

    Virinder
     
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  11. Harpreet_Singh_

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    I heard in a katha that a Mahapurakh who use to get frequent darshans from Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked Him about reading bani. What was the best way to do it?

    Maharaj ji replied that the bani that is heard by the ears and understood by the mind is the one that "reaches us."
     
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  12. vsgrewal48895

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    That is what Guru Gobind Singh Ji told me in my dream 30+ years ago and I have followed his instruction/guidence since then.

    Cordially,

    Virinder
     
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  13. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    I hope this is not a digression. New now only about 3 years to Sikhism -- I am wondering what it means to dream of a Guru. This has come up before on SPN. It must be very special for the individual, but is there a more general meaning as well?

    Thanks virinder ji or anyone else who wishes to share.
     
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  14. kiram

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    -- I am wondering what it means to dream of a Guru. - Aad ji

    Just made me smile at your thoughts !

    :wah:
     
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  15. vsgrewal48895

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    Dear Tony & Kiram Ji,

    Dreaming of a Guru may be nothing or may be able to resolve some anxiety and uplift a person despite my points in the following post.

    Enjoy my own contradictions;

    DREAMS/ ਸੁਪਨੈ

    ABSTRACT

    Dreams usually are manifestations of repressed memories. They are brought forward into our consciousness when our defenses are down during sleep. Most religions locate the mystery of consciousness in the subtle energy that survives the body’s death. Individual consciousness then melds into the Universal Consciousness through a process of spiritual enlightenment. Philosophers maintain that the problem of consciousness is beyond the reach of human intelligence.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Scientifically, consciousness does not reside in the ethereal soul but is a bye product of the activity of about one trillion cells in one’s brain. It is a maelstrom of events distributed across the brain. Some 6,000 human genes out of a total of about 30,000 in human body participate in this evolutionary process of physiologic activity. When this physiological activity of the brain stops, consciousness does not exist any more. The biology of consciousness offers a sounder basis for morality than the un-provable dogma about an immortal soul. Ultimately it is the understanding of the physiology of consciousness which may reduce human suffering. It should also explain the core ideas of morality. Then the purpose of life may come to be seen in terms of the purpose of every moment of consciousness. We may then begin to regard life even more of a precious and fragile gift.

    Every dream is connected with our own "reality". Thus, in interpreting our dreams, it is important to draw conclusions from our own personal life and experiences. Let us remember that a dream unifies the body, mind, and spirit. A dream provides us with an insight into ourselves and also a means for self-exploration. Guru Amardas ponders this self-exploration about anxiety in Siri Raag:

    ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਦੁਖ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਨਿਤ ਜੋਹੇ ਜਮ ਜਾਲੇ ॥ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਦੇਖਨੀ ਬਹੁ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਪਰਜਾਲੇ ॥

    An­ḏin ḏukẖ kamāvḏė niṯ johė jam jālė. Supnai sukh na daykhnee baho chintaa parjaalay.

    Night and day, they suffer in pain; they see the noose of Death always hovering above them. Even in their dreams, they find no peace; they are consumed by the fires of intense anxiety. -----Guru Amar Das, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 30-4

    Basis of all the content of our dreams is the desire to have our wishes fulfilled. In the wakeful life, we may or may not be conscious of these wishes. However, the unconscious would like to see these wishes fulfilled wholesale. But the preconscious cannot permit this. So a wish in a dream may be disguised. Only an understanding of the structure of our dream factory can reveal it. Guru Arjan in Raag Asa alludes to this:

    ਬਾਵਰ ਸੋਇ ਰਹੇ॥ਮੋਹ ਕੁਟੰਬ ਬਿਖੈ ਰਸ ਮਾਤੇ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਗਹਨ ਗਹੇ॥ਮਿਥਨ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਸੁਪਨ ਆਨੰਦ ਉਲਾਸ ਮਨਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਹੇ ॥

    Bāvar so­ė rahė. Moh kutamb bikẖai ras māṯė mithi­ā gahan gahė. mithan manorath supan aanand ulaas man mukh sat kahay.

    The crazy people are asleep. They are intoxicated with attachment to their families and sensory pleasures; they are held in the grip of falsehood. The false desires and the dream-like delights and pleasures -- these, the self-willed call true. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 406-16

    Thoughts are translated into visual images in a dream. A dream is simply an outcome of thought or sequence of thoughts that occurred during sleep. The images in our dreams are visual representations of these personal conceptions. These transformations help to disguise the latent content, transforming it into manifest content. That is what actually is seen by the dreamer. What would otherwise be a censored wish of the unconscious is given psychic energy and attached to innocent thoughts. Namdev in Raag Asa points to dreams as false doubts:

    ਮਿਥਿਆ ਭਰਮੁ ਅਰੁ ਸੁਪਨ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਸਤਿ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ ਸੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਮਨਸਾ ਗੁਰ ਉਪਦੇਸੀ ਜਾਗਤ ਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥

    mithi-aa bharam ar supan manorath sat padaarath jaani-aa. Sukariṯ mansā gur upḏėsī jāgaṯ hī man māni­ā.

    False doubts and dream objects, man believes them to be true. The Guru has instructed me to try to do good deeds, and my awakened mind has accepted this.
    -----Namdev, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 485-4

    Blindly ascribing meaning to dream symbols, without a clear understanding of the dreamer's personal situation is dangerous. A full medical and personal history is important in deciphering the meaning of a dream. Without such understanding dreams do not yield any valid information. Hence, Guru Arjan in Raag Sorth and Raag Jaitsari advises not to attach much importance to dream objects:

    ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਅਰੁ ਸੁਪਨ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਵਡਾਈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਭਜਨ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਵਸਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਕਾਹੂ ਜਾਈ ॥

    marig tarisnaa ar supan manorath taa kee kachh na vadaa-ee. Rām bẖajan bin kām na āvas sang na kāhū jā­ī.

    Illusions and dream-objects possess nothing of greatness. Without meditating on the Akal Purkh, nothing succeeds, and nothing will go along with you.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 615-2

    ਸੁਪਨੇ ਸੇਤੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਮੂਰਖਿ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਬਿਸਰੇ ਰਾਜ ਰਸ ਭੋਗ ਜਾਗਤ ਭਖਲਾਇਆ ॥

    supnay saytee chit Moorakh laa-i-aa. Bisrė rāj ras bẖog jāgaṯ bẖakẖlā­i­ā.

    The fool attaches his consciousness to the dream. When he awakes, he forgets the power, pleasures and enjoyments, and he is sad. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Jaitsari, AGGS, Page, 707-15

    On the other hand Guru Arjan in his fantasy about God’s love wants to hold on to the robe of the Akal Purkh and wants to sacrifice himself for the It in Raag Maru and Funhay in dreams:

    ਸਜਣ ਮੁਖੁ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਅਠੇ ਪਹਰ ਨਿਹਾਲਸਾ ॥ ਸੁਤੜੀ ਸੋ ਸਹੁ ਡਿਠੁ ਤੈ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਹਉ ਖੰਨੀਐ ॥

    Sajaṇ mukẖ anūp aṯẖė pahar nihālsā. sut-rhee so saho dith tai supnay ha-o khannee-ai.

    The face of my friend, the Akal Purkh, is incomparably beautiful; I would watch It, twenty-four hours a day. In sleep, I saw my Husband Akal Purkh in the dream and I am a sacrifice to It. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1100-7

    ਸੁਪਨੈ ਊਭੀ ਭਈ ਗਹਿਓ ਕੀ ਨ ਅੰਚਲਾ ॥ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਿਰਾਜਿਤ ਪੇਖਿ ਮਨੁ ਬੰਚਲਾ ॥

    supnai oobhee bha-ee gahi-o kee na anchlaa. Sunḏar purakẖ birājiṯ pėkẖ man bancẖlā.

    In a dream, I was lifted up; why didn't I grasp the hem of Akal Purkh’s Robe? Gazing upon the Beautiful Akal Purkh relaxing there, my mind was charmed and fascinated.-----Guru Arjan, Funhay, AGGS, Page, 1362-15

    Conclusion:

    One does not become better or more virtuous during sleep. Conscience appears to be silent during one’s dreams with out any compassion. He may thus commit the worst crimes -- theft, murder, and homicide in that dream-all with perfect indifference and without any subsequent remorse!
    It is left to the individual to attach whatever importance or meaning he deems appropriate to dreams. Despite my above post dreams some times dreams can be valuable to put a person on the right path as was in my case.

    Cordially,

    Virinder S. Grewal
    Williamston, MI
     
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  16. kiram

    kiram
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    Thank you Vrinder ji for your post above.. i found a Guru Vaak very beautiful & thought of posting it here again ji :

    Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Dakhne :

    ਮਃ ਸਜਣ ਮੁਖੁ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਅਠੇ ਪਹਰ ਨਿਹਾਲਸਾ ਸੁਤੜੀ ਸੋ ਸਹੁ ਡਿਠੁ ਤੈ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਹਉ ਖੰਨੀਐ ॥੨॥
    Mėhlā 5. Sajaṇ mukẖ anūp aṯẖe pahar nihālsā. Suṯ▫ṛī so saho diṯẖ ṯai supne ha▫o kẖannī▫ai. ||2||


    Fifth Mehl: The face of my friend, the Lord, is incomparably beautiful; I would watch Him, twenty-four hours a day. In sleep, I saw my Husband Lord; I am a sacrifice to that dream. ||2||



    ਸੁਤੜੀ = ਸੁੱਤੀ ਹੋਈ ਨੇ। ਸਹੁ = ਖਸਮ। ਸੁਪਨੇ = ਹੇ ਸੁਪਨੇ! ਤੈ = ਤੈਥੋਂ। ਹਉ = ਮੈਂ। ਖੰਨੀਐ = ਕੁਰਬਾਨ ਹਾਂ। ਸਜਣ ਮੁਖੁ = ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਮੂੰਹ। ਅਨੂਪੁ = ਉਪਮਾ ਰਹਿਤ, ਬੇ-ਮਿਸਾਲ, ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਸੋਹਣਾ। ਨਿਹਾਲਸਾ = ਮੈਂ ਵੇਖਾਂਗੀ।੨।

    ਸੁੱਤੀ ਹੋਈ ਨੇ ਮੈਂ ਉਸ ਖਸਮ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ (ਸੁਪਨੇ ਵਿਚ) ਵੇਖਿਆ, ਸੱਜਣ ਦਾ ਮੂੰਹ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਸੋਹਣਾ (ਲੱਗਾ)। ਹੇ ਸੁਪਨੇ! ਮੈਂ ਤੈਥੋਂ ਸਦਕੇ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹਾਂ। (ਹੁਣ ਮੇਰੀ ਤਾਂਘ ਹੈ ਕਿ) ਮੈਂ ਅੱਠੇ ਪਹਰ (ਸੱਜਣ ਦਾ ਮੂੰਹ) ਵੇਖਦੀ ਰਹਾਂ।੨।

    Ang. 1100
     
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  17. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    Dear Kiram Ji,

    You are welcome any time.

    Virinder
     
  18. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    I heard a katha on sage Valmiki ji Maharaj...His holiness was a bandit in early days of his youth ...it is said He was once robbing a Holy man when He was counselled and given the mantar 'MARA' to chant...He started chanting...as He chanted he realised he was chanting 'RAMA..RAMA..RAMA'....thus Valiya the bandit became Maharishi Valmiki...so there is no futility in doing Paath or chanting ..gradually one progresses and then gets into Chardhikala..
     
  19. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    Dear Raj Khalsa Ji,

    RAM in AGGS is “Akal Purkh” and not Rama son of Dasrath;

    ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਕਹਿਐ ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਰਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਤਾ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵੈ ਕੋਇ ॥

    Rām rām sabẖ ko kahai kahi¬ai rām na ho¬ė. Gur parsādī rām man vasai ṯā fal pāvai ko¬ė.

    Everyone chants the Akal Purkh's Name, Ram, Ram; but by such chanting, It is not obtained. By Guru's Grace, It comes to dwell in the mind, and then, the fruits are obtained. -----Guru Amar Das, Raag Gujri, AGGS, Page 491-1 & 2

    ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥ ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥ ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥

    Kabir rām kahan meh bẖėḏ hai ṯā meh ėk bicẖār. So¬ī rām sabẖai kaheh so¬ī ka¬uṯakhār. Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibė māhi bibėk. Ėk anėkeh mil ga¬i¬ā ėk samānā ėk.

    Kabir, it does make a difference, how you chant the God's Name, 'Ram'. This is something to consider. Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous God. Kabir, use the word 'Ram', only to speak of the All-pervading God You must make that distinction. One 'Ram' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in It. -----Kabir Slokes 190 & 191, AGGS, Page, 1374-14 & 15

    Swayeeas of Guru Gobind Singh, DG, Page, 713 & 714

    ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨੇ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੨॥

    Kahoon Nay Ram Kehou Krishna Koh Kahoon Manai Avtaran Maneo. Foakat Dharam Bisaar Sabhai Kartar Hi Kou Karta Jea Jaaneo.

    Someone calls Akal Purkh Ram or Krishna and someone believes in Its incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only the One Creator.

    ਜੌ ਕਹੌ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸ਼ਲ ਕੁੱਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

    Jou Kahou Ram Ajoun Ajai Ut Kaahay Kou Koshal Kukh Jeou Joo. Kaal Hoon Kaal Kahea Jeh Kaou Keh KaarN Kaal Tay Din Bheou Joo.

    If we consider Ram, the Akal Purkh as Unborn, then how did he take birth from the womb of Kaushalya? He, who is said to be the KAL (destroyer) of KAL (death), then why did none become subjugated himself before KAL?

    ਸੱਤ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਿਬੈਰ ਕਹਾਇ ਸੁ ਕਯੋਂ ਪਥ ਕੌ ਰਥ ਹਾਂਕ ਧਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕੋਊ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਲੇਨ ਲਯੋ ਜੂ ॥੧੩॥

    Sat Saroop Bibair Kahaey So Kaeon Path Kou Rath Haank Dheou Joo. Tahi Kou Maan Prabhoo Kar Kai Jeh Kou Kouoo Bhayd Na Layn Laeo Joo.

    If Krishna is called the Truth-incarnate, beyond enmity and opposition, then why did he become the charioteer of Arjuna? O mind! You only consider It the Akal Purkh God, who’s Mystery, could not be known to anyone.

    ਕਯੋਂ ਕਹੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬੱਧਕ ਬਾਣ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥

    Kaeon Koh Krishan Kirpanidh Hai Keh Kaaj Tay Badhak BaaN Lagaeo. Aour Kulin Oudharat Jou Keh Tay Apnay Kul Naas Karaeo.

    Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shot his arrow at him? He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan.

    ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥

    Aad Ajoun Kahaay Kahou Kim Dayvak Kay Jathrantar Aeou. Taat Na Maat Kahai Jeh Kaou The Kajeon Basudeveh Baap Kahaeo.

    Akal Purkh is said to be unborn and beginning less, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki? Akal Purkh is considered to be without any father or mother, then why did Krishna cause Vasudev to be called his father.

    ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥

    Kahay Kou Aysh Mahaysh Bhakhat Kaeh Dejaysh Kou Aysh Bakhaneo. Hai N Raghvaysh Jadavaysh Ramapat Tai Jin Kaou Bisvnaath Pachaneo.

    Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Akal Purkh? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Creator of the Universe.

    ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੈ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧ ਨੈਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥

    Ayk Kaou Chaad Anek Bhajai Sukdev Prasar Bejas Prasar Byas Jhithneo. Foakat Dharam Sajay Sabh Hi Ham Ayk Hi Kou Bidfh Naik Parmaneou.

    Relinquishing the One Creator, you remember many gods and goddesses; in this way you prove Shukdev, Prashar etc. as liars; all the so-called religions are hollow; I only accept the One Akal Purkh as the Providence.

    ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸ਼ਨੋ ਬਿਸ਼ਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥

    Kouoo Dijaysh Kaou Manat Hai Ur Kouoo Mahesh Kou Aysh Batai Hai. Kouoo Kahai Bishanou Bishnaek Jaeh Bajay Ugh Oagh Katai Hai.

    Someone tells Brahma as the Creator-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva; someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only on remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed;

    ਬਾਰ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੈ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਥੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥

    Baar Hazaar Bichaar Aray Jarh Unt Sanai Sabh Hi Taj Jai Hai. Taahi Kou Dhyan Parmaan Hieay Jouoo Thay Ub Hai Ur Aagai Oo Havai Hai.

    O fool! Think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death; therefore, you should only meditate on Akal Purkh, who is there in the present and who will also be there in future.

    Guru contains all those gods and goddesses.

    ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥

    Gur īsar gur gorakẖ barmā gur pārbaṯī mā▫ī.

    The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.
    Here God is Guru.

    It is not chanting but good deeds that brings the blessings of Grace of God, which can change any thing.

    Cordially,
    Virinder S. Grewal
    Williamston, MI
     
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  20. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    Grewal ji lets not get into another debate sidetracking the main issue ...it doesnt matter to me how you have your defination for Sri Ramchander ji Maharaj....but my point in that Katha is ..there is exaggeration on the Karma of chanting or doing Paath..excellence will follow ..if we wish ...
     
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  21. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    Thanks Khalsa Ji.

    Virinder
     

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