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SciTech Neanderthals may have interbred with humans.

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by spnadmin, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Neanderthals may have interbred with humans
    Genetic data points to ancient liaisons between species.
    Rex Dalton
    <!-- -->
    Archaic humans such as Neanderthals may be gone but they're not forgotten — at least not in the human genome. A genetic analysis of nearly 2,000 people from around the world indicates that such extinct species interbred with the ancestors of modern humans twice, leaving their genes within the DNA of people today.

    The discovery, presented at the annual meeting of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists in Albuquerque, New Mexico, on 17 April, adds important new details to the evolutionary history of the human species. And it may help explain the fate of the Neanderthals, who vanished from the fossil record about 30,000 years ago. "It means Neanderthals didn't completely disappear," says Jeffrey Long, a genetic anthropologist at the University of New Mexico, whose group conducted the analysis. There is a little bit of Neanderthal leftover in almost all humans, he says.

    The researchers arrived at that conclusion by studying genetic data from 1,983 individuals from 99 populations in Africa, Europe, Asia, Oceania and the Americas. Sarah Joyce, a doctoral student working with Long, analyzed 614 microsatellite positions, which are sections of the genome that can be used like fingerprints. She then created an evolutionary tree to explain the observed genetic variation in microsatellites. The best way to explain that variation was if there were two periods of interbreeding between humans and an archaic species, such as Homo neanderthalensis or H. heidelbergensis.

    "This is not what we expected to find," says Long.

    Using projected rates of genetic mutation and data from the fossil record, the researchers suggest that the interbreeding happened about 60,000 years ago in the eastern Mediterranean and, more recently, about 45,000 years ago in eastern Asia. Those two events happened after the first H. sapiens had migrated out of Africa, says Long. His group didn't find evidence of interbreeding in the genomes of the modern African people included in the study.

    The researchers suggest that the population from the first interbreeding went on to migrate to Europe, Asia and North America. Then the second interbreeding with an archaic population in eastern Asia further altered the genetic makeup of people in Oceania.

    The talk at the anthropology meeting caught the attention of many researchers, some of whom have been trying to explain puzzling variations in the human genome. "They are onto something," says Noah Rosenberg, an anthropological geneticist at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, who heard the talk.

    A test of the New Mexico team's proposals may come soon. Svante Pääbo and colleagues at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, announced early last year that they had finished sequencing a first draft of the Neanderthal genome, and they are expected to publish their work in the near future. Pääbo's earlier studies on components of Neanderthal genomes largely ruled out interbreeding, but they were not based on more comprehensive analyses of the complete genome.

    Linda Vigilant, an anthropologist at the Planck Institute, found Joyce's talk a convincing answer to "subtle deviations" noticed in genetic variation in the Pacific region.

    "This information is really helpful," says Vigilant. "And it's cool."

    The paleontological record also is producing fossils that complement such interbreeding theories. Pääbo's team and Russian colleagues recently reported the mitochondrial genome of an archaic human from the Altai Mountains — in southern Siberia near ancient Asian trade routes<sup>1</sup>.

    The ancient mitochondrial DNA came from a piece of finger bone, which the groups haven't identified by species. It could be Neanderthal, a new Homo species or some other archaic form — like H. erectus, who spread to Oceania by 1.8 million years ago.

    The Pääbo team reported that the bone was from an individual that lived 30,000–48,000 years ago in Denisova Cave, near where both modern humans and Neanderthals then dwelled. But the age of the bone has been questioned by researchers, who say the cave's sediments may have been reworked, making the bone's layer older.

    At the anthropology meeting, Theodore Schurr, a molecular anthropologist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, said the genetic model showing interbreeding raises questions about the range of species, like H. heidelbergensis. He noted that human skeletons found at Lake Mungo in New South Wales, Australia, have robust features, which may represent the result of interbreeding; they are dated to more than 20,000 years ago.

    Keith Hunley, another member of the New Mexico group, said the team is now moving to publish its results in the near future.

    References


    Comments to this article have been posted below, however links and names of posters have been removed (Narayanjot Kaur)

    #10186
    I have always wondered if Basques, which are known to have striking differences in the frequency of blood groups and the form of the skull from the rest of the european population could not be such a population. I do not mean to be offensive in anyway...just curious to know whether any study has been done in that direction

    #10187
    I have always wondered if Basques, which are known to have striking differences in the frequency of blood groups and the form of the skull from the rest of the european population could not be such a population. I do not mean to be offensive in anyway...just curious to know whether any study has been done in that direction

    #10188
    An Indian researcher named Eswaran came up with a mechanism which can highly restrict gene flow to a group like modern humans even when interbreeding occurs. Suupose that there are a number of genetic allelles which together confer an advantage, and where that advantage is lost or highly muted if even one of the allelles is lost. In that case, any interbreeding results in disadvantaged children (or even a disadvantaged group). This does not stop gene transfer, but keeps it very limited. This result sounds like it is in keeping with Eswaran's research. -- Beyond that, I would like to see nuclear DNA studies of the Neanderthals and the Denisova remains showing that they held these anomolous sequences. After all, it is easy to speculate.

    #10246
    This is great. If proven correct we might have on our hands the beginning of the process to unravel the mystery of human diversity! very interesting that modern Africans do not have Neanderthal genes.

    #10267
    From the distribution of fuzzy faced humans (Europeans, Ainu, Australians, and, I think it will be found, some in isolated parts of Africa) around a core population of bare faced humans, we might have guessed that 'modern humans' spread from some center and only 'hybridized' at the fringes where the more archaic populations managed to hold out the longest. It seems fairly clear to me that the key mutation that created 'modern humans' was something that resulted in the loss of the adult male beard. In most animal species with distinctive juvenile and adult forms, the change from juvenile to adult entails a social change from protective family to aggressive competition. I would guess that the social group for archaic humans (Neanderthals, etal.) was rather like that of lions and there was very little male social structure and hence the long stasis of the male tool kit — the hand axe, period.

    Males did not teach their male heirs how to work stone but rather drove them out of the family pride at sexual maturity. With the loss of the beard, the sign of male sexual maturity, the modern male subversives could hang around camp much longer, do some sneaky breeding under the nose of the harem 'master', and eventually learn to practice male cooperation to form gangs to throw the old bearded male out. With the formation for the first time of genuine male culture, the 'modern human' population exploded and quickly replaced its predecessor. If we search we may yet find, to match the 'mitochondrial Eve' evidence for her mate, the 'bare faced Adam' I think.


    #10274
    The baske people seems not being too different from a genetic point of view to other european populations, inbreeding may explain most of baske singularities. The baske language is a different issue, some UCM researches published a report entitled "Egyptians, bereberes, guanches and baskes" linking all those cultures. One of my grandmothers, having an H3 haplogroup mtDNA, had some Neanderthal features, as she had prominent superciliar arches, and unwanted trait for women in the spanish culture, and one of his cousins was the first in writing a baske language grammar. My other grandmother is mtDNA haplogroup K,but born in Vizcaya, and my only grandfather studied has an R1b1c Y chromosome, mixing has always had an important role all over Europe. I was once told about a village of Berebere origin in Seville, having Rh neg blood. When a bus line was opened connecting them to a village of different ethnic background, Rh isoimmunizations began to appear. In many rural places of Spain you find people having several repeated surnames, as they married cousins because of the obstacles connected to mating out of the place. Regarding the Neanderthal subject, it seems that some roman historians registered the presence of people of an specially robust and primitive body traits working in the roman mines.


    #10429
    Sadly, many of us inquisitive people do not still have a clue as to where we came from and where we are going! Thus this study is interesting, as it demonstrates some progress in the science of human evolution. Though in my opinion it provides no concrete evidence for the precise origin of man.

    Nevertheless, from a purely academic angle this is an interesting piece of research. Evidently, this paper contradicts several earlier mitochondrial DNA based studies including those by Giorgio Bertorelle and co-workers (1) which indicated that early modern humans and Neanderthals probably did not interbreed. Moreover, it must be added that often these studies have been plagued with problems, as the Neanderthal DNA was frequently found to be contaminated with DNA from modern humans.

    Also it is quite likely that the Neanderthals did venture into some regions of Africa, as Neanderthal remains have been found close to Africa (for example in Israel). It is thus necessary that a detailed study of the African populations also be undertaken.

    Moreover, since the Out of Africa Model of the Origin of Man is on shaky grounds (as it seems to be politically driven and also several older humanoid fossils have been found particularly in Asia) one should look further into the early humanoid fossils such as those from Dmanisi (about 1.8 million years old), Georgia etc.
    1) PNAS May 27, 2003 vol. 100 no. 11 6593-6597


    #10440
    In relation to the comment posted by Upinder Fotadar.
    I'm not an expert in mitochondrial DNA, but I know it moves from generation to generation following the maternal line. So, if modern humans do not show any ancient mitochondrial DNA it does not necessarily mean that modern humans and Neanderthal did not interbreed. We could speculate that interbreeding DID actually happen, but only between Neanderthal men and modern women, although such a sex bias would not necessarily find any explanation plausible. Still, it could be an interesting possibility.

    #10551
    All the trail of mitochondrial DNA shows is the maternal line of inheritance. The maternal line could have died out and the paternal lines continued on. The genes of Neandertal women live on in our genes and the genes of their male descendants.

    Many of the traits that differentiated Neandertal from modern humans were inherited reponses to brutally cold climate of Ice Age Europe. Therefore I don't think people of African descent should feel slighted by this study, I am sure that we will find that the African cousins of Neandertal live on in their genes. Research in the coming years will probably find this as the African fossils are sequenced.

    Neanderthals may have interbred with humans : Nature News
     

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  3. jasbirkaleka

    jasbirkaleka India
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    Narayanjot Kaur ji,
    Sat Sri Akal.
    Thanks for bringing this very interesting new research to us.
     
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  4. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Thank god their are no neanderthel men left O/W so many sites would have been discussing why our women are running with neanderthel men:veryhappymunda::veryhappymunda::veryhappymunda:
     
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  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    :coolmunda::coolmunda::coolmunda::coolmunda: Here is where you are wrong :coolmunda::coolmunda::coolmunda::coolmunda: a lot of women, Sikh and nonSikh, are running with Neanderthal men. They are just keeping quiet about it. :thinkingmunda::thinkingmunda::thinkingmunda:
     
  6. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Damn we really need to do something about it How about a separate forum for Homos sapien women and raising awareness that they should marry a homo sapien .We need to find the root of this conspiracy by neanderthel men
    for taking our women:angrymunda:
     
  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    :rofl:

    That is an excellent idea. Always a good market for stories about relationships. Think of the web traffic, the Google ranks, the Google adverts you will attract. Your ship has come in. I look forward to seeing your new web site. cheerleadercheerleadercheerleader
     
  8. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Well, I think Mr. Neanderthal there is quite attractive. Not only does he have a killer physique but he also is kind and thoughtful and sweet-tempered. You can tell just by looking into those deep, soulful eyes.:carefreekudi:

    OK, he's having a bad hair day. That can be cured over time by proper nutrition and keeping him away from barber shops.:cleverkudi:

    Does this make me a species traitor to homo sapiens sapiens? I have just one question: How certain can you be about your own species purity? :seriouskudi:Huh? Answer me that one!

    In any case, tolerance is a virtue and acceptance a greater virtue and I wish all of you species-centric, bigoted, prejudiced types would just get off my back!!:angrykudi:
     
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  9. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Mai ji

    He also keeps "kesh" so that eliminates all questions concerning kaurs who are going for the mona look. Removes it from the table as a topic for debate. One important question - Can we trust him to tie dastar? Something warns me we cannot. I can't answer your other questions. He does look like someone I know but I can't remember who it is right now.
     
  10. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Actually, the very attractive gentleman in the picture appears to have clipped hair. As I said, that can be remedied.

    As for the dastar question, I would trust him to bring no more dishonour to a dastar than many of the Homo sapiens sapiens Singhs that I know. Certainly it makes no sense to hold him to a higher standard than our ordinary "human" males.

    BTW, it is very politically incorrect to refer to Homo sapiens sapiens as Human and Homo neanderthalis as something else. The correct term - if any term must be used at all - would be "Differently Human."
     
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  11. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    LOL .... Quite true Mai ji.

    I do think he keeps kesh. That is as long as his hair can grow. I have seen other photos and that may be it for him.
     
  12. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Well, perhaps proper nutrition will do the trick.

    I return to my earlier statement, "How sure can you be of your species purity?" Who among us might be part Neanderthal?

    I know that at a party some years ago, a somewhat drunken physicist came up to me and said, "There are two types of people in the world, those who look like Cro magnon and those who look Neanderthal. You are a perfect example of the Neanderthal type."

    Of course, he was drunk (or maybe stoned), but this research has set me wondering if there may be some truth in this.

    Research has taken a fascinating and unexpected turn here.
     
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  13. pradeepgurbani

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  14. Harry Haller

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    "Neanderthals may have interbred with humans"

    I would like to confirm this has taken place, I am more than happy to upload photos of my previous partner to provide proof.
     
  15. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Please do not for legal reasons veer ji. :grinningkudi:
     
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  16. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    What is all this prejudice against the Neanderthals? Perhaps they lost out because they were nicer and more civilsed than the Cro Magnons, eh? This sort of thing has happened in the relatively recent past, you know. I think of the civilised Dravidians losing to the barbaric Aryans as a pertinent example.

    gingerteakaur mundahug :motherlylove:
     
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    #15 Mai Harinder Kaur, Sep 25, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011

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