Naam, Shabad And Bani: What Is The Difference?

[pk70]

.

Mahanbir Singh Ji, following are my questions after your quotes, their purpose is not to question you but to know more whatever appears ambiguous, if carefully you answer those questions, may be it can help us to proceed to have dialogue with the Creator
Naam Simran is cotemplating on God's virtues & His blessings. Naam Simran is silent contemplation.
I agree
Nothing extra is required. You can do Naam Simran even whie you are sitting in a toilet.
Infact i find that as the best place during the day. No body can disturb you.Some time my wife gets impatient. why i am sitting in toilet for so long.
Why it is so that she complains about it, she is your wife she should have known by nowe what Mahabir Singh ji is doing in the bath room.
I find so much peace & solace & silence that i consider this place as most wonderful.
During Amrit Vele i find to sit on chair with a cup of tea the best place to contemplate.
When i am so attached i find the outside world does not exist for me.
This experience can not be described in words'
I agree, that is what all say who enjoy union with Him but can you express what is the subject of this dialogue
In my silence i keep talking to God & God keeps talking to me. we have wonderful dialouge on daily basis. it is here that i get all the inspiration & new thoughts & ideas. The information given to me is so much that i find hard to copy it down.
New ideas, well give an example about new ideas to share with the world
God talks to all of us all the time. I am not special or better than any body.
God always talks with our feelings. Feelings are the language of soul. Feelings always contain the truth. Mind contains the openion of others.What ever mind recieves the data from outside word is an illusion. As the outside world it self is an illusion.
Feelings need a base to trigger, if there is no base, there is no feelings, please elaborate the base.
we have to carefully analyse which feelings are formed by the openion & advice of others & which come straight from our heart. The test is simple. If your feelings contain joy, happiness & truth these are the feeling sent to you by God.
If you can analyze, kindly share those with us with examples.
We are always guided by inner voice but out mind does not allow us to listen to our inner voice.Our mind talks us out to believe our inner feelings & even our intutions. Intution is our 6th sense.
Without mind being focused how any thing can be experienced, elaborate the base-focus that triggers feelings. If the mind is focused on something, explain what is that?
When you go in, you start talking, mind is focused, it is that focus what I ask you about.
We all get hits or flashes or intution but our mind does not let us believe in them.
we reject even our own experience which is another most effective way that God teaches us . we believe in the openion of others & dont listen to God. That is why our life is in shambles.
Flashes etc come out of a focus of mind; again, you have to share that. On being focused on different basis, the flashes will be different.
Our True Guru is Nirankar who resides in our heart & talks to us all the time & guides throug our inner voice & our intutions & our experiences. May God give us the wisdom to listen to Him and judge that with our heart & not our minds.
Ultimate Guru is of course Him but to realize that still mortals need some one who can show Him presence with in, as per your statement, you have that technique, whatever you have shared, it doesn’t enable others to see Him in, kindly come up with more elaboration for examples Guru Nanak goes in detail like over coming the stuff that hinders our progression(SGGS877).

 

[spnadmin]

pk70 ji

Maybe it is not my place to respond. But I think "feelings" may not mean the same thing as "emotions." Feeling could be sensations and they could be intuitions. Just wondering if mahanbir ji would say what meaning he brings to the idea of God with our:{- feelings

 

[Astroboy]

Bani- Shabad- Naam= Practice of Ultra Marathon of life daily

Bani= Swimming in the waters of Maya. Beware of the Sharks.

Shabad= Bicycling over the mountains of stumbling blocks

Naam= Running to the finish line.

No matter who gets there first. Getting there is the only goal.

Tejwant Singh

Please elaborate.:happy:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Gyani ji

Actually -- all the extra paraphernalia and equipment and arrangements get on my nerves. I would think people would just want to get down with it and worship without extras to use up time and energy.

Exactly Aad002 ji.

Maybe they need the "props" as much a s the director/playwrights do to stage their play..NATAK !!

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Actually -- all the extra paraphernalia and equipment and arrangements get on my nerves. I would think people would just want to get down with it and worship without extras to use up time and energy.

Antonia ji,

By extra paraphernalia and equipment, you mean those cars with hydraulics that dance while moving forward?


I agree with you, for me too, candle light dinner-food for soul needs only enough light to brighten the darkness within. nothing else. And that light with everlasting batteries is in Guru Vichaar, understanding Gurbani and using it in our everyday life so that we can also see clearly during our darker times. Without this practice it is tough to see when it is dark within.

Isn't that the true essence of Chardi Kala?

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Originally Posted by VaheguruSeekr
Bani- Shabad- Naam= Practice of Ultra Marathon of life daily

Bani= Swimming in the waters of Maya. Beware of the Sharks.

Shabad= Bicycling over the mountains of stumbling blocks

Naam= Running to the finish line.

No matter who gets there first. Getting there is the only goal.

Tejwant Singh

Namjap ji,

Guru Fateh.

You said

Please elaborate.:happy:

Let me give it a shot.

I have no idea if you have read about the training of an ultra marathoner. If you have not Google is and then you will be understand my thinking better.

When I used to train for marathons, it was a grueling thing. Then one day some of my mates decided to train for the ultra marathon which is also called Iron man triathlon held in Hawaii. consisting of a 2.4 mile (3.9 km) swim in the open ocean, 112 mile (180 km) bicycling through the rugged moutains and 26.2 mile (42.2 km) marathon run. There are also other ultramarathons which consist of 120 miles runs etc etc.

My friends and I started training for the Iron man Marathon. I was doing fine with my training in running and bike but swimming was not my game no matter how hard I tried. I could not swim for more than one mile. It is more to do with not learning the right techniques. It is easy to swim in a pool but very tough in the open ocean at least for me. So I gave up the training after 3 months.

Although I gave up the ironman training, I continued my marathon and bicycling training. What it gave me was internal grit, determination and mind over matter when one is out of any physical strength.

Now coming back to my comparison of this with Gurbani.

"Bani- Shabad- Naam= Practice of Ultra Marathon of life daily

Bani= Swimming in the waters of Maya. Beware of the Sharks.

Shabad= Bicycling over the mountains of stumbling blocks

Naam= Running to the finish line."

The sad part is that we do Nitnem which includes morning 5 banis, Rehras and Sohila and then we add Sukhmani at times and also reading SGGS as part of Sehaj Paath and also sometime volunteer when our friends have Akand Paaths.

All this is nothing but parroting, a transistory feel good when we are not in a hurry to sing it slowly and enjoy the moments. As Gurbani is sung or recited in a poetic way, it does have a feel good pick me up in it as anything added with music we like does.

Lots of people now on the internet involved with reciting a million Chaupais.

Now the question becomes what are the concrete changes and results of doing all this?

How many of us really study Gurbani and practice it in our lives?

Coming back to my ultra marathon comparison once again, all that training brings physical and mental changes and they are visible in the physique and also in the behaviour. They go hand in hand. Only by exerting phsyically we can make our mind stronger.

Our mental health does depend on our physical fitness. No matter how much Paath we parrot for how many years, if we are not physically fit we will not see the change. Now the argument from someone in the forum may say how about those who are handicap? Well. my answer to them is that mentally strong handicap people do not use that as an excuse but as a challenge. One can Google and find their inspiring stories all over.

The idea of studying Gurbani is to become mentally stronger so we can breed goodness within to be shared by all.

Gurbani- as you know it very well and would like you to post the Shabads where it has- TUN & MUNN together- and let's read and study those Shabads then my comparison will become more nitid to all.

So in other words, I need your help with the Shabads with Tun & Munn in them so we can start our Grumatl aerobic and anaerobic exercise in the forum.


Tejwant Singh

 

[Astroboy]

Vaheguruseekr Ji,

You mean shabads like this ?

Page 20, Line 16
ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਵੇਚਿਆ ਮਨੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
तनु मनु गुर पहि वेचिआ मनु दीआ सिरु नालि ॥
Ŧan man gur pėh vecẖi▫ā man ḏī▫ā sir nāl.
I have sold my body and mind to the Guru, and I have given my mind and head as well.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Vaheguruseekr Ji,

You mean shabads like this ?

Page 20, Line 16
ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਵੇਚਿਆ ਮਨੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
तनु मनु गुर पहि वेचिआ मनु दीआ सिरु नालि ॥
Ŧan man gur pėh vecẖi▫ā man ḏī▫ā sir nāl.
I have sold my body and mind to the Guru, and I have given my mind and head as well.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

YES...!

And Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[Astroboy]

Page 32, Line 14
ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुर का सबदु मनि वसै मनु तनु निरमलु होइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gur kā sabaḏ man vasai man ṯan nirmal ho▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Word of the Guru's Shabad abides within the mind, and the body and mind become pure. ||1||Pause||
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

 

[mahanbir singh]

PK70 JI, Thank you so much for asking very important & pertinent questions. I will write the answers on my word document & then paste it here, sometimes my writting gets washed out whien i write at the space provided here. Pl give me a day or two.

 

[Astroboy]

ਬਾਣੀ ਵਜੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਵਜਾਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਥਾਇ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥
बाणी वजै सबदि वजाए गुरमुखि भगति थाइ पावणिआ ॥५॥
Baṇī vajai sabaḏ vajā▫e gurmukẖ bẖagaṯ thā▫e pāvṇi▫ā. ||5||
The Word of His Bani vibrates, and the Word of His Shabad resounds, for the Gurmukh whose devotional worship is accepted. ||5|| (Ang 122)

 

[Astroboy]

Ang 996

ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ਘਰੁ ੩
मारू महला ४ घरु ३
Mārū mėhlā 4 gẖar 3
Maru 4th Guru.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
There is but One God. By True Guru's grace, He is obtained.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਲੈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਪਤਿ ਪਾਇ ॥
हरि हरि नामु निधानु लै गुरमति हरि पति पाइ ॥
Har har nām niḏẖān lai gurmaṯ har paṯ pā▫e.
Through the Guru's guidance, gather thou the treasure of the God's name and thereby thou shalt obtain honour in the Lord's court.

ਹਲਤਿ ਪਲਤਿ ਨਾਲਿ ਚਲਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਤੇ ਲਏ ਛਡਾਇ ॥
हलति पलति नालि चलदा हरि अंते लए छडाइ ॥
Halaṯ palaṯ nāl cẖalḏā har anṯe la▫e cẖẖadā▫e.
Here and hereafter, God goes with thee and shall deliver thee in the end.

ਜਿਥੈ ਅਵਘਟ ਗਲੀਆ ਭੀੜੀਆ ਤਿਥੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਰਾਇ ॥੧॥
जिथै अवघट गलीआ भीड़ीआ तिथै हरि हरि मुकति कराइ ॥१॥
Jithai avgẖat galī▫ā bẖīṛī▫ā ṯithai har har mukaṯ karā▫e. ||1||
Where there are difficult paths and narrow streets, there the Lord-master alone shall rescue thee.

ਮੇਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਾ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇ ॥
मेरे सतिगुरा मै हरि हरि नामु द्रिड़ाइ ॥
Mere saṯigurā mai har har nām driṛ▫ā▫e.
O my True Guru, enshrine thou within me the Lord-God's Name.

ਮੇਰਾ ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਸੁਤ ਬੰਧਪੋ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਮਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
मेरा मात पिता सुत बंधपो मै हरि बिनु अवरु न माइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Merā māṯ piṯā suṯ banḏẖpo mai har bin avar na mā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Lord is my mother, father, son and relation. Without God, I have not another, O my mother. Pause.

ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਰਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਕੋਈ ਆਣਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਮਾਇ ॥
मै हरि बिरही हरि नामु है कोई आणि मिलावै माइ ॥
Mai har birhī har nām hai ko▫ī āṇ milāvai mā▫e.
God's Name and God is dear unto me. Let some one come and unite me with Him, O my mother.

ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਮੈ ਜੋਦੜੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਦੇਇ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥
तिसु आगै मै जोदड़ी मेरा प्रीतमु देइ मिलाइ ॥
Ŧis āgai mai joḏ▫ṛī merā parīṯam ḏe▫e milā▫e.
I make obeisance before him, who may make me meet with my beloved.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਦਇਆਲ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲੇ ਢਿਲ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥
सतिगुरु पुरखु दइआल प्रभु हरि मेले ढिल न पाइ ॥२॥
Saṯgur purakẖ ḏa▫i▫āl parabẖ har mele dẖil na pā▫e. ||2||
The mighty and merciful True Guru is the embodiment of the Lord. He make no delay in uniting the mortal with God.

ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਚੇਤਿਓ ਸੇ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
जिन हरि हरि नामु न चेतिओ से भागहीण मरि जाइ ॥
Jin har har nām na cẖeṯi▫o se bẖāghīṇ mar jā▫e.
They, who deliberate not over the Lord Master's Name are unfortunate and are annihilated.

ਓਇ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
ओइ फिरि फिरि जोनि भवाईअहि मरि जमहि आवै जाइ ॥
O▫e fir fir jon bẖavā▫ī▫ah mar jamėh āvai jā▫e.
They are, over and over again, goaded into existences. They die, are reborn and continue coming and going.

ਓਇ ਜਮ ਦਰਿ ਬਧੇ ਮਾਰੀਅਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥੩॥
ओइ जम दरि बधे मारीअहि हरि दरगह मिलै सजाइ ॥३॥
O▫e jam ḏar baḏẖe mārī▫ah har ḏargėh milai sajā▫e. ||3||
Bound at the death's door, they are soundly beaten and suffer punishment at the God's court.

ਤੂ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਹਮ ਸਰਣਾਗਤੀ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਮੇਲਿ ਲੈਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ॥
तू प्रभु हम सरणागती मो कउ मेलि लैहु हरि राइ ॥
Ŧū parabẖ ham sarṇāgaṯī mo ka▫o mel laihu har rā▫e.
Thou art my Master, I seek Thine refuge, O God, the king, unite Thou me with Thyself.

ਹਰਿ ਧਾਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜਗਜੀਵਨਾ ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਾਇ ॥
हरि धारि क्रिपा जगजीवना गुर सतिगुर की सरणाइ ॥
Har ḏẖār kirpā jagjīvanā gur saṯgur kī sarṇā▫e.
O God, the life of the world, take Thou pity on me and keep me under the protection of the Great True Guru.

ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਆਪਿ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥੩॥
हरि जीउ आपि दइआलु होइ जन नानक हरि मेलाइ ॥४॥१॥३॥
Har jī▫o āp ḏa▫i▫āl ho▫e jan Nānak har melā▫e. ||4||1||3||
Becoming merciful, the Sire Lord-Master has blended serf Nanak with Himself.

 

[Astroboy]

I am looking for a gursikh
(Jan Nanak Dhoor Mange Tis gursikh kee, Jo aap Jappey avarra naam japavvey)

I am looking for someone who could explain my following query:-
Through the Guru's guidance, gather thou the treasure of the God's name and thereby thou shalt obtain honour in the Lord's court.

This tuk (translated) is a form of instruction. It instructs that even if we have the guru's guidance, there is still work to be done. We are supposed to gather the treasure of the God's name.

My query summarizes down to the following:
Guru Ji is often quoted to saying that the only thing which goes along is the Naam. Imho, Naam is very subtle and communicates with the soul. It is some form of fertilizer for the soul while we live in this duality consciousness. But we use limited form of expression, the human language with words that require physical eyes to read.

The answer lies here: Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

 

[mahanbir singh]

I am looking for a gursikh
(Jan Nanak Dhoor Mange Tis gursikh kee, Jo aap Jappey avarra naam japavvey)

I am looking for someone who could explain my following query:-
Through the Guru's guidance, gather thou the treasure of the God's name and thereby thou shalt obtain honour in the Lord's court.

This tuk (translated) is a form of instruction. It instructs that even if we have the guru's guidance, there is still work to be done. We are supposed to gather the treasure of the God's name.

My query summarizes down to the following:
Guru Ji is often quoted to saying that the only thing which goes along is the Naam. Imho, Naam is very subtle and communicates with the soul. It is some form of fertilizer for the soul while we live in this duality consciousness. But we use limited form of expression, the human language wih words that require physical eyes to read.

The answer lies here: Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

In my openion any teacher or a guru has to give you the home work.
Home work for gathering the treasure of Naam is to repeat the name of god & coteplate on His virtues & blessings in silent meditatn. There are so many ways you can meditate.
Even sewa is a form of meditation.
when you are walking & see a beutiful flower if you stop & enjoy the beuty & appreciate the creator it is a walking meditation.
when you see awsome display of stars on the sky & wonder who is the artist you will get connected with the creator it is a form of meditation.
There are so many other ways in which you can get connected.
This is very plesant work. Infact it is not a work, it is dyeing your soul in the love of God. Love is not a work but enjoyment. If you are mechanically repeating God's name
you will not achieve much but when you have love for the creato who created you & gave you eyes, ears, nose, mouth , hands & feet & you are aware & conscious of these blessings you will enjoy contemplating on God. Just contemplate on His Formlessness & the Form you will enjoy His company. His form you see with open eyes . All that is , is God. This as we know is His Sargun Saroop. When you close your eyes & focus on virtues & blessings specially what He has done for you you will enjoy this experience. Always Thank God. Always speak these words WAHEGURU TERA SHUKAR HAI. when some body gives us a pen to write we say very sincerely Thank you. When some body gives a seat in a bus we very gratefully say Thank you. Our Karta Purakh who has given us seat in this world & who has given us Body, Mind & soul we forget to say Thank you or WAHEGURU TERA SHUKAR HAI,
To me saying Thank you to Waheguru is the best form of meditation. Every body loves who is Thanked. This will bring closer to God. This is very useful home work that we all can do including our children.
Having union with God does not require penances & fasts or even many paths. it requires loving Him with your heart.
with Love
Mahanbir Singh

 

[Astroboy]

Mahanbir Singh Ji,

Thank you for such supportive words. What you've mentioned isn't anything new but a part and parcel of one's life; just that I have not paid enough attention to those things (which really matter) as highlighted in your post/reply. I thank you not just for being a reminder but also your style of conveying the message, which is very poetic and soothing, went right through.
I'm learning with joy in the company of Gursikhs.

 

[spnadmin]

namjap ji

I agree with you. Mahanbir ji brings Guruji right to the core of my heart -- all that is sweet.

 

[mahanbir singh]

namjap ji & aa0002 ji
you are very pure souls & have very kind heart. That is why guru's word get into every cell of your body & they soalk your inner being, God bless you. you both are doing a great sewa to sikh community. Whahguru Rakha.

 

[spnadmin]

Mahanbir ji

I simply like the idea that your are an active forum member looking for ways to support the others with inspiration and insight. Do not abandon that path because there are moments when your words may be the only words that take hold and inspire another person when nothing else has worked.

Sat Nam

 

[mahanbir singh]

Thanks Antonia ji Waheguru ji taught me this long back. you never know in which form or through which cannel God will make His presence felt in you. He can appear in the form of a book, a tap, a cd. a dance & not necssarily from spirtual beings. He can appear from street cleaners & that lady that collects bags. we are His tools & He uses whatever tool He likes. Do not hate any body. All are His bodies. just think what a person has said & not what a person is wearing.

Antonia ji i am eagerly looking forward to your grasp on Asa di vaar. please write. it will benefit the whole humanity. i have done more katha in our gurdwara in perth. your wisdom of Asa de vaar will help me immensely. with regards,

Mahanbir Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Mahanbir ji

Once again and again and again you give simple and clear guidance in a way that supports and comforts everyone. Thank you for having a calming influence.

If things settle down I will try to write something about Asa kee Vaar -- have been neglecting many threads that I started recently. But you must understand that I am new at this and depend on the help of you and others who have deep understanding of Guru's bani.