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Naam, Shabad and Bani: What is the Difference?

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Astroboy, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    While reading SGGS, I have come across similarities in meaning while refering to the three words - Naam, Shabad and Bani. If they are not the same then what's the difference ?
    For example, the following three shabads :-

    Page 152, Line 13
    Attuned to the Word of the Shabad, one becomes sweet, like the juice of the sugar cane. ||3||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    Page 113, Line 13
    The Nectar of the Guru's Bani is very sweet.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    Page 170, Line 1
    I have tasted the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, by meeting the True Guru. It is sweet, like the juice of the sugarcane. ||2||
     
    #1 Astroboy, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
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  3. mahanbir singh

    mahanbir singh
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    Piary Nam Jap Ji,
    Many thanks for choosing 3 shabads which convey that bani, nam & shabad are same thing.
    It is true. I think bani or shabad of bani mean the same thing.However Naam is our ultimate goal. It is Love of God.Bani & shabad lead you to this love.when you are in love you sing the praises of Lord.The joy & the ecastsy of this stage cannot be described in words. words cannot describe the feelings. we are awfully limited by the words.words are not the real thig. they are only symbols or insignias.That is why when we cannot describe our feelings of joy or sorrow we cry.we can not speak the words.
    A devotee of God when immersed in Naam then his stage is something like this:rMg hsY rMg rovy cup BI kr jwey, prvwh nwhI iksy kyrI bwJ scy nwieN]
    I sincerely appricate your efforts to give us excellent material from gurbani.
    your giving the link & reference in your post was extremely helpful.How do you do that?
    I could not find the shabad on page 170 in sggs.Pleased see if the page no is different.

    With warmest regards & prayers that you enlighten us more.Thanks.
    Mahanbir Singh.
     
    #2 mahanbir singh, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  4. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Dear Mahanbir Singh Ji,

    Thank you for your involvement in this cyber satsang. As you've pointed out the utmost importance of Naam.

    Vichaar of naam is not theory but practical experience I believe. What is your take on this ?

    [SIZE=-1]
    Here's your requested page:-

    [/SIZE]Page 170, Line 1
    ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਰਸੁ ਚਾਖਿਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੀਠ ਰਸ ਗਾਨੇ ॥੨॥
    Har kā nām amriṯ ras cẖākẖi▫ā mil saṯgur mīṯẖ ras gāne. ||2||
    I have tasted the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, by meeting the True Guru. It is sweet, like the juice of the sugarcane. ||2||
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
    #3 Astroboy, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  5. kiram

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  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Kiram Ji,

    You are very knowledgeable in Gurbani, I would like to welcome you to open discussion here too.


     
    #5 Astroboy, Dec 27, 2008
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  7. kiram

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    Namjap ji,

    Thank you for sharing above the beautiful baanis.. am here to learn and really do not know much ji.. too small and like Guru Sahib Himself says "Hum Keeray Kiram Satgur Sarnaayee..............."
    Please continue to share Shabads ji...

    Thank you!

    Bhul chuk mauf karna ji..

    kiram
     
  8. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ....Kar daya Naam pargaas. Mere meet gurdev, moko raam Naam pargaas.

    :wah:
     
  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    सूही महला ५ ॥
    Sūhī mėhlā 5.
    Soohee, Fifth Mehl:
    ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਪੁਕਾਰਨਿ ਪੋਥੀਆ
    सिम्रिति बेद पुराण पुकारनि पोथीआ ॥
    Simriṯ beḏ purāṇ pukāran pothī▫ā.
    The Simritees, the Vedas, the Puraanas and the other holy scriptures proclaim
    ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਸਭਿ ਕੂੜੁ ਗਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਹੋਛੀਆ ॥੧॥
    नाम बिना सभि कूड़ु गाल्ही होछीआ ॥१॥
    Nām binā sabẖ kūṛ gālĥī hocẖẖī▫ā. ||1||
    that without the Naam, everything is false and worthless. ||1||


    [SIZE=-2]Guru Granth Sahib Page 761[/SIZE]
     
    #8 Astroboy, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  10. Astroboy

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    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਜੰਤ
    नाम के धारे सगले जंत ॥
    Nām ke ḏẖāre sagle janṯ.
    The Naam is the Support of all creatures.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ
    नाम के धारे खंड ब्रहमंड ॥
    Nām ke ḏẖāre kẖand barahmand.
    The Naam is the Support of the earth and solar systems.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ
    नाम के धारे सिम्रिति बेद पुरान ॥
    Nām ke ḏẖāre simriṯ beḏ purān.
    The Naam is the Support of the Simritees, the Vedas and the Puraanas.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸੁਨਨ ਗਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ
    नाम के धारे सुनन गिआन धिआन ॥
    Nām ke ḏẖāre sunan gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān.
    The Naam is the Support by which we hear of spiritual wisdom and meditation.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਆਗਾਸ ਪਾਤਾਲ
    नाम के धारे आगास पाताल ॥
    Nām ke ḏẖāre āgās pāṯāl.
    The Naam is the Support of the Akaashic ethers and the nether regions.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਆਕਾਰ
    नाम के धारे सगल आकार ॥
    Nām ke ḏẖāre sagal ākār.
    The Naam is the Support of all bodies.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਸਭ ਭਵਨ
    नाम के धारे पुरीआ सभ भवन ॥
    Nām ke ḏẖāre purī▫ā sabẖ bẖavan.
    The Naam is the Support of all worlds and realms.

    ਨਾਮ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਉਧਰੇ ਸੁਨਿ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ
    नाम कै संगि उधरे सुनि स्रवन ॥
    Nām kai sang uḏẖre sun sarvan.
    Associating with the Naam, listening to it with the ears, one is saved.

    ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਨੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਾਏ
    करि किरपा जिसु आपनै नामि लाए ॥
    Kar kirpā jis āpnai nām lā▫e.
    Those whom the Lord mercifully attaches to His Naam -

    ਨਾਨਕ ਚਉਥੇ ਪਦ ਮਹਿ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਏ ॥੫॥
    नानक चउथे पद महि सो जनु गति पाए ॥५॥
    Nānak cẖa▫uthe paḏ mėh so jan gaṯ pā▫e. ||5||
    O Nanak, in the fourth state, those humble servants attain salvation. ||5||

    [SIZE=-2]Guru Granth Sahib Page 284[/SIZE]
     
    #9 Astroboy, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  11. Astroboy

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    If Naam was some supersonic vibration (as I imagine) then dogs will go to heaven first.

    Associating with the Naam, listening to it with the ears, one is saved.

    But Gurbani explains the nature of a dog and how humans are no different.

    Page 672, Line 5
    ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੈ ਸੁਆਨ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਚਾਰੇ ਕੁੰਟਾ ਘੋਖਾ ॥੨॥
    उदमु करै सुआन की निआई चारे कुंटा घोखा ॥२॥
    Uḏam karai su▫ān kī ni▫ā▫ī cẖāre kuntā gẖokẖā. ||2||
    He runs around like a dog, searching in the four directions. ||2||
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
    #10 Astroboy, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  12. Astroboy

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    Page 33, Line 5
    ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
    जतु सतु संजमु नामु है विणु नावै निरमलु न होइ ॥
    Jaṯ saṯ sanjam nām hai viṇ nāvai nirmal na ho▫e.
    The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is abstinence, truthfulness, and self-restraint. Without the Name, no one becomes pure.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
    #11 Astroboy, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  13. Astroboy

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    Page 33, Line 8
    ਅਧਿਆਤਮ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਕਬ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ॥
    अधिआतम करम जे करे नामु न कब ही पाइ ॥
    Aḏẖi▫āṯam karam je kare nām na kab hī pā▫e.
    You may perform religious rituals, and still never obtain the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
    #12 Astroboy, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  14. Astroboy

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    Page 33, Line 18
    ਮਨਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਤਾ ਪਾਏ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥੨॥
    मनि निरमल नामु धिआईऐ ता पाए मोख दुआरु ॥२॥
    Man nirmal nām ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai ṯā pā▫e mokẖ ḏu▫ār. ||2||
    Meditating on the Naam with a pure mind, the Door of Liberation is found. ||2||
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


    The above shabad suggests that one can reach the mokh duar (Door of Liberation) by meditating on the Naam with a pure heart. Does that mean that :-

    1. if one already knows what is Naam, he/she still needs to meditate with a pure heart ?
    2. if one already knows the Naam, he/she can still forget to meditate on it ?


    [/SIZE]
     
    #13 Astroboy, Dec 28, 2008
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  15. Astroboy

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    Page 41, Line 9
    ਰਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਸੁ ਅਤਿ ਭਲਾ ਕਿਤੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਰਸੁ ਖਾਇ ॥
    रसु अम्रितु नामु रसु अति भला कितु बिधि मिलै रसु खाइ ॥
    Ras amriṯ nām ras aṯ bẖalā kiṯ biḏẖ milai ras kẖā▫e.
    The Essence of the Ambrosial Naam is the most sublime essence; how can I get to taste this essence?
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
    #14 Astroboy, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  16. Astroboy

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    So what is Naam that runs the whole universe and without listening to it, our lives are a wasted opportunity ?

    There is a tuk from Gurbani :-

    How we should understand the Creator's Lila

    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ
    सलोकु मः २ ॥
    Salok mėhlā 2.
    Shalok, Second Mehl:

    ਅਖੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਵੇਖਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕੰਨਾ ਸੁਨਣਾ
    अखी बाझहु वेखणा विणु कंना सुनणा ॥
    Akẖī bājẖahu vekẖ▫ṇā viṇ kanna sunṇā.
    To see without eyes; to hear without ears;

    ਪੈਰਾ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਚਲਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਹਥਾ ਕਰਣਾ
    पैरा बाझहु चलणा विणु हथा करणा ॥
    Pairā bājẖahu cẖalṇā viṇ hathā karṇā.
    to walk without feet; to work without hands;

    ਜੀਭੈ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਇਉ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਣਾ
    जीभै बाझहु बोलणा इउ जीवत मरणा ॥
    Jībẖai bājẖahu bolṇā i▫o jīvaṯ marṇā.
    to speak without a tongue-like this, one remains dead while yet alive.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਕੈ ਤਉ ਖਸਮੈ ਮਿਲਣਾ ॥੧॥
    नानक हुकमु पछाणि कै तउ खसमै मिलणा ॥१॥
    Nānak hukam pacẖẖāṇ kai ṯa▫o kẖasmai milṇā. ||1||
    O Nanak, recognize the Hukam of the Lord's Command, and merge with your Lord and Master. ||1||
     
    #15 Astroboy, Dec 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  17. Astroboy

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    Is understanding and recognizing His Hukam better done without the physical senses ?
    Is Guru Ji talking about:
    inner ears to listen to the Anhad Naad,
    inner vision to see the blazing light of a million suns,
    inner tongue to tast the sweetness of Naam


    Page 270, Line 12
    ਜਿਹ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਸੁਨਹਿ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਦ ॥
    जिह प्रसादि सुनहि करन नाद ॥
    Jih parsāḏ sunėh karan nāḏ.
    By His Grace, you listen to the sound current of the Naad.
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


    Page 700, Line 17
    ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੂਰ ਉਜਾਰਾ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਭਰਮੁ ਅੰਧੇਰਾ ॥੧॥
    नामु जपत कोटि सूर उजारा बिनसै भरमु अंधेरा ॥१॥
    Nām japaṯ kot sūr ujārā binsai bẖaram anḏẖerā. ||1||
    Chanting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the light of millions of suns shines forth, and the darkness of doubt is dispelled. ||1||
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
    #16 Astroboy, Dec 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  18. Astroboy

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    ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਵਾਰ ਮਹਲਾ
    रागु गूजरी वार महला ५
    Rāg gūjrī vār mėhlā 5
    Raag Goojaree, Vaar, Fifth Mehl:

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ
    सलोकु मः ५ ॥
    Salok mėhlā 5.
    Shalok, Fifth Mehl:

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਆਰਾਧਣਾ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਜਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਉ
    अंतरि गुरु आराधणा जिहवा जपि गुर नाउ ॥
    Anṯar gur ārāḏẖ▫ṇā jihvā jap gur nā▫o.
    Deep within yourself, worship the Guru in adoration, and with your tongue, chant the Guru's Name.

    ਨੇਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੇਖਣਾ ਸ੍ਰਵਣੀ ਸੁਨਣਾ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਉ
    नेत्री सतिगुरु पेखणा स्रवणी सुनणा गुर नाउ ॥
    Neṯrī saṯgur pekẖ▫ṇā sarvaṇī sunṇā gur nā▫o.
    Let your eyes behold the True Guru, and let your ears hear the Guru's Name.

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਤੀ ਰਤਿਆ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਾਈਐ ਠਾਉ
    सतिगुर सेती रतिआ दरगह पाईऐ ठाउ ॥
    Saṯgur seṯī raṯi▫ā ḏargėh pā▫ī▫ai ṯẖā▫o.
    Attuned to the True Guru, you shall receive a place of honor in the Court of the Lord.

    ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਏਹ ਵਥੁ ਦੇਇ
    कहु नानक किरपा करे जिस नो एह वथु देइ ॥
    Kaho Nānak kirpā kare jis no eh vath ḏe▫e.
    Says Nanak, this treasure is bestowed on those who are blessed with His Mercy.

    ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਉਤਮ ਕਾਢੀਅਹਿ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥੧॥
    जग महि उतम काढीअहि विरले केई केइ ॥१॥
    Jag mėh uṯam kādẖī▫ah virle ke▫ī ke▫e. ||1||
    In the midst of the world, they are known as the most pious - they are rare indeed. ||1||
     
    #17 Astroboy, Dec 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  19. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

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    ਜਹ ਝਿਲਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਰੁ ਦਿਸੰਤਾ
    जह झिलि मिलि कारु दिसंता ॥
    Jah jẖil mil kār ḏisanṯā.
    Where the dazzling white light is seen,

    ਤਹ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਬਜੰਤਾ
    तह अनहद सबद बजंता ॥
    Ŧah anhaḏ sabaḏ bajanṯā.
    there the unstruck sound current of the Shabad resounds.

    ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਨੀ
    जोती जोति समानी ॥
    Joṯī joṯ samānī.
    One's light merges in the Light;

    ਮੈ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੨॥
    मै गुर परसादी जानी ॥२॥
    Mai gur parsādī jānī. ||2||
    by Guru's Grace, I know this. ||2||

    View Full Shabad :
    Devotee Namdev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
    #18 Astroboy, Dec 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  20. Balwinder singh

    Balwinder singh
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    Namm, when our soul is stuck up in the senses , it can not express its demand , which is rememberance of source or the God.Though our way is flowing in the pure love of our gurus and whole process of ascension gets completed automatically, we need to know the process of kundalini a little bit ,otherwise in the times of intellect we may not explain what happens to a man after reading or listening gurbani.On ang 1204 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji mention of Kundlini is there.Grace of guru (through a saint of house of Guru Nanak who is at shaktipat) liberates the bonded soul from senses area and put it in the driving seat.Soul try to search icons of compassion and love.Guru sahibs being God incarnation were the peak of Love, compassion and forgiveness and sacrifice.For the 240 years Guru Sahibs lived the life of pure soul.Thaknfulness towards Guru Sahibs puts us on the way to liberation , rest Guru Sahibs take care.When soul touches its area then it is obvious for a being who has been blessed by sikh gurus through sikh saint , to remember only Guru Sahibs .And One Jyot is in the Guru Sahibs. So the being remembers God only always automatically.I may be wrong but i feel this is namm.I bow my head before all for any mistake.I should be corrected if need be.
     
  21. Balwinder singh

    Balwinder singh
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    Shabad, our kirtan comprises raga with instruments , raga with voice and message in raga.So we listen message sung in raga ,written in raga and supported by instruments in raga.Guru Sahib is written in 31 ragas. Soul when liberated and is in namm, remembering God always longs for intensity of emotion, which is supplied by kirtan only.Even ragas are time based.Shades of love changes with respect to time also.And journey of soul from hope to disspassion through calm Gauri, shyness of todi, heat of love of sorath, bliss of bilawal,separation of behag, steadiness & bhakti ras of kalyan , bhakti ras of prabhati and vairag or dispassion of jaijaiwanti gets completed.Seven notes from sa to ne are the bases of ragas.Seven notes clears the seven chakras.Each raga works to clear our nadi system.We live in ego world and what ever we express is basically symptoms of clogged nadis. Guru Sahibs knew very well as they were the creators of all this.They gave us a system whith which we are able to come to full potential very soon.Or enlightenments in sikh culture were in numbers.And are.Guru ji
    gave us words which gives us sounds with which our kundalini is managed effortlessly.
    And an ordinary being is chisseled by shabad to a saint.
     
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