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Naam Jap, Simran and Naam Simran

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by ravneet_sb, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Sat Sri Akaal,

    Please correct/reject or accept thought.


    parabh kai simran jap tap poojaa.
    In the remembrance of God are chanting, intense meditation and devotional worship.
    parabh kai simran binsai doojaa.
    In the remembrance of God, duality is removed.


    atal padvee naam simran darirh naanak har har saran. ||4||3||29||
    Remembering the Naam in meditation, the state of eternal dignity is obtained; Nanak has grasped the protection of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||29||

    If "Simran" of "Guru's Bani" is while "Meditating" or "Naam Jaap"
    than it is "Naam Simran"

    "Remember" of "Naam" origin of "Wa" He" Gu" Ru" inside body




    "Naam Jap" is reciting "Wa He Gu Ru"

    Natural air crosses four channels,

    clearing the residual thought and images

    "Guru's Bani" has prescribed "Simran" of "Guru's Bani"

    while reciting "Naam Jap"

    Initially our "imaginative sense" and "mind" thoughts
    on start of recitation are linked to worldly events,
    more one's mind is engrossed,
    bigger is the link, more one has to meditate

    till the "Simran" of "Guru's Bani" appear in thought and imagination



    On meditation "Wa He Gu Ru"

    It nourishes "lever" "heart" "throat" "mind" one is protected

    The source or origin of alphabet inside body has relevance

    in formation of word "Wa He Gu Ru"

    and is responsible for circulation of air through speech

    and provides cleansing to four chakras

    Leaving fresh and natural air inside
    and
    re leaving from residual foul air
    because of biochemical reactions and images


    and connecting to "Nature" and "Guru's Bani"

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Raveneet ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    You write:

    How about interacting and learning from each other so that we can become better than what we were yesterday?

    Tejwant Singh
     
  4. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    RAVNEET Ji,
    It is incorrect to consider the meaning of the reference Prabh as GOD.

    The meaning of the word Prabh is ULTIMATE or SUPREME LORD.

    Therefore Gurbani is all with a reference of ULTIMATE LORD not GOD.

    I think we can understand the dififference in the meanings of the words GOD and LORD.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  5. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Sat Sri Akaal,

    Interactive part was missed.

    It is real valuable.

    Thanks
     
  6. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Sat Sri Akaal,

    "Sikh" is "seeker" or "Learner"

    From your correspondence your mind reflects as "literal" aware.

    As not being master in the subject,
    you can always share perspective knowledge on the subject "ULTIMATE LORD" and "GOD"

    It will be learning for all.

    In this forum we share learning of word with different perspectives.




    Each "word" has life and many perspectives and relevance in the "world"

    "word" is "punish"

    legal persons Jail/ Extort/ etc.... if used by police/lawyers
    parents Scolding/ Beating/ Not talking etc
    spirituals Moaning/Cleaning of Utensils/ Floor/Self Correction

    Though word is "Punish" but it has different world experience.

    One learns if mind is open to all perspectives,


    Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh
     
  7. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    RAVNEET Ji,
    We can not compare the words given by GuRu with wordly words.
    The words of GuRu are words from the "TAKSAAL OF TRUTH" whereas wordly words can be manipulated as per our convenience.It is not so with Gurbani words.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  8. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Parkash S Bagga Ji,

    It is personal opinion and can be interacted/checked/ rejected or accepted.

    Word has apperared with realisation, and to make commons understand, it can
    be related.

    Like "gravity" was realised and word appeared "GRAVITY" and

    is explained to
    commons as force of attraction by earth, force of nature.

    Purpose of expert is to make common understand.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
  9. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    RAVNEET Ji,
    I like your understanding that purpose of the expert is to make common understand.
    When our expert Master GuRu is telling the word as PRABh then why we like to adopt some other word which our GuRu nowhere mentions like this.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  10. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Dear Ravneet _ sb ji,
    I thank you for your comments and posting your views on, Naam jap ,Simran and Naam Simran. I would add that there seems to be some overlap in the three words mentioned in the post.
    I also agree with you that Prabh means God as is usually understood by Sikhs.Following are the meanings of Prabh as per Mohankosh encyclyopedia , a source whose authenticity is fairly established.
    [SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਪ੍ਰਭੂ, ਪ੍ਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਰੱਬ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਹਮ ਗਰੀਬ ਮਸਕੀਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇ ਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੁ ਰਾਖੁ ਵਡਵਡਾ ਹੇ॥ {ਗਉ ੪, ਸੋਹ ੪, ੪:੧ (13)}। [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Dictionary[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0]P. n. God, master [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-0]
    The post by Mr. Bagga ji is confusing the issue though he must have consulted some dictionary before making these comments that I could not digest and hence this post. I would very much appreciate if one can explain the difference between Ultimate /Supreme Lord and God.
    God and Lord or Ultimate God are all synonyms for me and we select the English word that suits us. Prabh even in ordinary Punjabi Parlance is God . The Hindi equivalent of the word is Prabhu or Bhagwan.
    I have a very limited understanding of Gurbani but understand ordinary Punjabi very well. Hence
    Bul Chuk Mauf karna jeo.

    [/SIZE]
     
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    #9 Taranjeet singh, Nov 16, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011
  11. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    TARANJEET SINGH Ji,
    From your views I feel that you are not familiar with Gurbani grammer.
    I would therefore suggest you to consider the meanings of the words according to grammatical indications of Gurbani words.We generally avoid the consideraton of grammer.
    I am sure that this way you can get the correct meanings of the words.You can see for yourself we come across three words as PRABH .... PRABH... and PRABHU It is important to understand how these words have different meanings.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  12. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    TARANJEET SINGH Ji,
    I may mention one point very clearly that there is a lot of difference in Gurbani Grammer and Grammer of Gurmukhi .
    Your considerations are based on Normal grammer of Gurmukhi not on Gurbani grammer.
    This makes the basic reason for understanding being different for my views as I solely give consideration to Gurbani Grammer.
    I think it should be interesting for your goodself to understand this aspect of Gurbani.
    With best wishes
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  13. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Satkaryog Baaga ji,
    My grammar would improve if I am advised as to where is the role of grammar in arriving at the meaning of Prabh. It is the issue raised in my post. There was no question of grammar.

    I would , at the cost of repetition, state again that 'Prabh' means God, rab and 'waheguru'.

    I do not think anything is wrong in this. Kindly advise as to where there is mistake as I could not find anything.
     
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  14. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    TARANJEET SINGH Ji,
    I would request you to confirm me your view about grammer of Gurbani.
    Do you agree that there is a deifinite grammer of Gurbani words.?
    It would be my pleasure to give you clarification unless I am sure about your views in the subject.Otherwise there would be no point in my clarification.

    At this stage I may give you a hint that try to know How the NOUN/ADJECTIVE words in Gurbani have been classified as SINGULAR or PLURAL .This may be of some help for
    some clarification .
    With best wishes

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  15. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Gentlemen,

    this is all semantics, there is only one God, Creator, Prabh, we all have our own favourite words, some use God, I use Creator, but at the end of the day they all refer to the same force/energy that Created. A dislike of any word is normally down to personal aversion...
     
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  16. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Thank you Harry Ji...I am in full agreement with you.[I have spent almost a sleepless night.]

    There is another thread where Chinu ji has asked as to how physically challenged can do sewa.I think helping others in understanding the message of God is also a sewa.It is also self-less service. Sant Maskeen ji spent his entire life in making us understand Gurbani and Words of Gurus. Sharing your views , if one knows the meaning of some lines/tuks, is also a self less sewa while keeping the meanings as Trade secret is not a practice that is very common in sikhs.

    With warm Regards to Satkaryog Bagga ji. I lay this discussion to rest.
     
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  17. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    HARRY HALLAR Ji/TARANJEET SINGH Ji,
    As a qualified person I fully understand the meaning of the word GOD.This word is definitely used for the Creator in other philosophies.The use of the word GOD for Creator in Gurbani is not justified.
    If we actually understand what has been refered as CREATOR in Gurbani and if any one can understand the grammer of the reference words used in Gurbani for CREATOR .,You will conclude the same what I mention.
    .The real problem is this we are not interested in knowing the grammer of Gurbani words.This is only reson for difference of Understanding.
    If I have to tell or speak about Western Philosophies I shall definitely use the word GOD because in Western or other philosophies there is no concept of GuR JoT(i) and PRABH JOT(i). as we have in Sikh Philosophy. This is the most important aspect of Gurbani understanding.So far we have not given attention to this.
    So In person I am not against the word GOD which is a most sacred word for Creator in Other philosophies.
    That is all I have to say..Rest is yours choice how you take it.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  18. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Prakashji,

    The Abrahamic religions have claimed the word God for themselves, this is true, however, I think it is a massive mistake to concentrate on words, as that is taking good study time away from the message itself, When my mother says to me 'have faith in god', I do not give her a lecture on why the use of the word 'god' is wrong, followed by a lecture on why having faith in a higher being magically helping out is wrong, I smile, and I understand what she is saying, translated that means, 'follow and listen to Creators essence within you', so, in the space of 5 minutes, my mother has blessed me, I have accepted her blessing, everyone is happy, If we start arguing about what to call creator, then we are even more stupid than those that worshiped gold cows.

    It is the concept of Creator that is hugely important, as stated fully in Mool Mantra.

    Prakashji, I have a huge respect for your thoughts and your theories, there is only one fly in the ointment for me on your topics, and that is the amount of 'hidden meaning' in words, and also the importance of inflections, Gurbani, I always felt should be able to be deciphered by the common man, to be simple, yet informative, without too many riddles, this is more like Nostradamus, but, I also have to accept that working with English, as I do , has its limitations, however, in the spirit of learning, there is always goodness in your posts, and always something to be learnt, even if I may not fully agree with it, but then that is what makes Sikhs noble, the ability to have an open mind :)
     
  19. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    HARRY HALLAR Ji,
    Many Many thanks for your nice and positive response.
    I appreciate the use of word GOD by your mother and you feel blessed .It has to be.
    My concern is only its use in reference of Gurbani interpretations.
    If I tell you that all NOUN words in Gurbani are COLLECTIVE NOUN not the Normal Noun as we know.If you get confirmation to this what would be your reaction of understanding.?Certainly initially you may feel upset but you will definitely evaluate the use of any such word which is not a reference for COLLECTIVE NOUN.

    I fully appreciate your sense of realising the things in a positive way.Since you must be ollowing English version for Gurbani and there this is not visible what I am mentioning here.
    Harry ji ,there is only a very simple rule of grammer in Gurbani which is related to the classification of the words as SINGULAR or PLURAL.Only this understanding is required.
    This should not be a difficult understanding.Only will is important.
    With best wishes

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  20. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    Prakashji,

    If I tell you that all NOUN words in Gurbani are COLLECTIVE NOUN not the Normal Noun as we know.If you get confirmation to this what would be your reaction of understanding.?Certainly initially you may feel upset but you will definitely evaluate the use of any such word which is not a reference for COLLECTIVE NOUN.

    You are implying something which is at odds with the very first line of Mool Mantra, could you explain?
     
  21. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: "Naam Jap" "Simran" and "Naam Simran"

    HARRY HALLAR Ji,
    O.K. Pl let me know about your understanding about NOUN and COLLECTIVE NOUN.
    It will become easier for me to clarify this.
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     

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