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Naam Jap is Your True Religion...

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by gurbanivichar, Jun 14, 2004.

  1. gurbanivichar

    gurbanivichar
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    This Shabad is by Bhagat Naam Dev Ji in Raag Gond on Pannaa 874

    Raag Gond, The Word Of Naam Dayv Jee, Second House:
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
    Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, all doubts are dispelled.
    Chanting the Name of the Lord is the highest religion.
    Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, erases social classes and ancestral pedigrees.
    The Lord is the walking stick of the blind. ||1||
    I bow to the Lord, I humbly bow to the Lord.
    Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, you will not be tormented by the Messenger of Death. ||1||Pause||
    The Lord took the life of Harnaakhash,
    and gave Ajaamal a place in heaven.
    Teaching a parrot to speak the Lord's Name, Ganika the prostitute was saved.
    That Lord is the light of my eyes. ||2||
    Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Pootna was saved,
    even though she was a deceitful child-killer.
    Contemplating the Lord, Dropadi was saved.
    Gautam's wife, turned to stone, was saved. ||3||
    The Lord, who killed Kaysee and Kans,
    gave the gift of life to Kali.
    Prays Naam Dayv, such is my Lord;
    meditating on Him, fear and suffering are dispelled. ||4||1||5||
     
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  3. Youth_Voice

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    I don't think that Naam Jaap is simple recitation of a word ..

    Doesn't this seems to be quite strange .....??
    How can the simple recitation of a word be beneficial to anyone ...?

    I am quite amazed that how can we interpret gurbani in this manner , we simply think of Naam Simran , Naam Japna or other similar words in Gurbani to be as the repetitive recitation of a word ....?

    Bhai gurdaas jee clearly says ..."Jaise khand khand kahe mukh nahin meeta hoye , jab lag jeebh swaad khand nahin khaeyae , Jaise raat andheri mein deepak deepak kahe timar na jayee jab lag naa jalayeeyae , jaise gyan gyan kahe gyaan hoo na hot kach jab lag gur gyan antar naa paeeyae ....."

    Even then we think naam japna means simple recitation of a particular name of God ... though on the contrary gurbani is very clear that god has no name ..... Guru sahib says "Anaam Hain" ... means that one universal lord has no name ...

    Even if we think on other planes then think about a son , who never follows the teachings of his father but just devotes 2 hours daily in the morning to chant teh name of his father ... would such a father ever be happy by the doings og his son ..... no ...not at all. When no human being would ever want his child to do such a foolish act then why would that almighty ....Father of us all, would like to demand that from his children .....

    I think we need to discuss this....
     
  4. Neutral Singh

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    This is a very important question your asked... I am also searching for answers to these questions...

    So, What is Naam ? For the answers we have to take guidance from none other than, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

    Let us read and try to understand the following verse in Gurbani at panna no. 274, which clearly defines Naam...


    nwm ky Dwry sgly jMq ] nwm ky Dwry KMf bRhmMf ] nwm ky Dwry isimRiq byd purwn ] nwm ky Dwry sunn igAwn iDAwn ] nwm ky Dwry Awgws pwqwl ] nwm ky Dwry sgl Awkwr ] nwm ky Dwry purIAw sB Bvn ] nwm kY sMig auDry suin sRvn ] kir ikrpw ijsu AwpnY nwim lwey ] nwnk cauQy pd mih so jnu giq pwey ]5]
    sukhmani Sahib Ji, Panna 274 (SGGS Ji)

    Means:

    The Naam is the Support of all creatures. The Naam is the Support of the earth and solar systems. The Naam is the Support of the Simritees, the Vedas and the Puraanas. The Naam is the Support by which we hear of spiritual wisdom and meditation. The Naam is the Support of the Akaashic ethers and the nether regions. The Naam is the Support of all bodies. The Naam is the Support of all worlds and realms. Associating with the Naam, listening to it with the ears, one is saved. Those whom the Lord mercifully attaches to His Naam . O Nanak, in the fourth state, those humble servants attain salvation. || 5 ||


    So, it is clearly defined in Gurbani that what is Naam... Naam is always referred to as The Akaal Purukh... the Creator...

    Bhai Kahan Singh Ji Nabha has defined Naam as "Akal Purukh" and "His Will"

    Prof. Sahib Singh Ji has defined Naam as "Akal Purukh". So, when we are asked to concentrate on Naam, that means we have to concentrate on the Akal Purukh... the Creator and always acknowledge His will by heart only then we will be at peace with ourselves...


    In japji Sajib Ji, Guru Nanak says...


    qIrQu qpu dieAw dqu dwnu ] jy ko pwvY iql kw mwnu ] suixAw mMinAw min kIqw Bwau ] AMqrgiq qIriQ mil nwau ] siB gux qyry mY nwhI koie ] ivxu gux kIqy Bgiq n hoie ] suAsiq AwiQ bwxI brmwau ] siq suhwxu sdw min cwau ] kvxu su vylw vKqu kvxu kvx iQiq kvxu vwru ] kvix is ruqI mwhu kvxu ijqu hoAw Awkwru ] vyl n pweIAw pMfqI ij hovY lyKu purwxu ] vKqu n pwieE kwdIAw ij ilKin lyKu kurwxu ] iQiq vwru nw jogI jwxY ruiq mwhu nw koeI ] jw krqw isrTI kau swjy Awpy jwxY soeI ] ikv kir AwKw ikv swlwhI ikau vrnI ikv jwxw ] nwnk AwKix sBu ko AwKY iek dU ieku isAwxw ] vfw swihbu vfI nweI kIqw jw kw hovY ] nwnk jy ko AwpO jwxY AgY gieAw n sohY ]21]
    Japji Sahib Ji Panna 4-5, Pauri 21 (SGGS Ji)


    Means :

    Pilgrimages, austere discipline, compassion and charity.these, by themselves, bring only an iota of merit. Listening and believing with love and humility in your mind, cleanse yourself with the Name, at the sacred shrine deep within. All virtues are Yours, Lord, I have none at all. Without virtue, there is no devotional worship. I bow to the Lord of the World, to His Word, to Brahma the Creator. He is Beautiful, True and Eternally Joyful. What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date? What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created? The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas. That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran. The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season. The Creator who created this creation.only He Himself knows. How can we speak of Him? How can we praise Him?





    The Shabad by Bahi Namdeo also states that by chanting and accepting the presense of the Almighty and accepting His Will in our hearts and minds, even the cold hearted dead persons can be revived and become a loving and compasionate persons...

    There is ofcourse no use in merely concentraing on word "Naam" or anyother word for that matter... we can Jap Naam by clearly reading and understanding the teachings of Gurbani... We can Jap Naam even while we are helping the father, who is ailing... we can Jap Naam even while we are not meditating...

    My humble views... Thanx a lot for putting forward these questions it was really enlightening to find the answers in Gurbani... Please keep posting...

    Bhul Chuk Maaf
     
  5. Amarpal

    Amarpal
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    Before I come to the topic under discussion, I want to express my views on the ‘Name of Almighty’.

    We human use language to communicate among our selves within the society we live. Words are arbitrary sounds, which a given community has accepted to mean something specific. A word in one language (community) may mean something different or may not mean any thing in another community. Language is utilitarian; it has words only for items that are important to our life, that to within our current knowledge. The word limits our thought to its meaning.

    Almighty is not limited in any way, who can we limit this entity into some word. We being limited entity, we have no faculty to comprehend the infinite, unlimited. When we cannot comprehend what ‘Almighty’ is, can we coin a word which will convey all what God is. What is not in their experience cannot have word and consequently language cannot express God and cannot create name for the ‘Almighty’. I cannot do that and I am convinced that no body among we humans can do it.

    Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee, I am sure would have experienced the same difficulty. After having experienced ‘Almighty’ he must have found is difficulty to give verbal expression to what he experienced, there are no words for it. That is probably, why he referred too ‘Almighty’ as ‘Satnaam’. To me this means that what ever is the name that can be given to that ultimate reality i.e. ‘Sat’ is his name ‘Naam’. Guru Sahib him self has refrained from giving any name, because the infinite as God is cannot be captured in the utilitarian tools – words and language – which we humans we to carry on with our life. Another word that we Sikh use while referring to God is ‘Waheguru’, again to me it is not the name of God, it is a salutation to Guru, the ultimate Guru being the God. Kartar, also denote the spirit that is behind all that is happening, it is not the name of God, it is just on of the attribute of the ‘Almighty’.

    We find many names appearing in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. This is because Bhagatas have used those names in their sayings. Guru Sahibans did not want to distort what the Bhagatas had said, their sayings have been included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as they have said, which included names - it is intellectual honesty. As a consequence, many names viz. Har, Gobind, Ram etc appear in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. From this we should not conclude that God, the ‘Almighty’ can be contained in any name or Guru Sahib have given any name to God..

    ‘Almighty’ cannot be given any name, God is ‘Anaam’ as the posting of Khalsa Jee (Youth_Voice) has mentioned.

    Having said all this, I come to the topic under discussion. The fact remains that we have to revere “Almighty’ and as humans we have to depend on the faculties that nature has given us. We Sikhs use Jaap to keep remembering God – it is one of the basic tenet of Sikhism (Naam Jaapo, Kirt Karo Vand Shako). Initially, to start with, there are two elements in the process of Jaap – the first is word the second is thought. We Sikhs use the word Waheguru, Satnaam or both and keep on repeating them knowing fully well that these are the medium but not the name of the God. Our thoughts during the Jaap process remain fixed to the attributes of the ‘Almighty’ (not to any physical form). As one progresses and the Jaap process is intensified, subtle changes in your mental make-up will start taking place (the way brain uses its neurons will change and the importance of the connection between them will change and new connections will get formed). This will create a new awakening in you. It is the beginning of the ‘peace’ you will ultimately experience. As one progress further, the use of word will disappear from the Jaap and one will then enter the stage of ‘Ajaapa Jaap’. In ‘Ajaapa Jaap’ your mind remains fixed to the attributes of the ‘Almighty’. At this stage, one is in the process of overcoming the limitation of our human existence – use of language to express reverence to ‘Almighty’. The individual is now revering the ‘Almighty’ as ‘Anaam’ with no linkage to any form. The individual has moved closer to ‘Almighty’.

    Naam Jaap is certainly one of the most important elements of our Sikh religion.

    Please comment so that I can learn.

    With Love and Respect for all,

    Amarpal

    P.S. Incidently I want to say that what is probably written in Gurmukhi doesnot come properly. May be, the site has to supply the Gurmukhi font also.
     
  6. person

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    We live in a society based on rationality and logic and very often we try to understand things through this. However, it has been noted that 'God' is beyond our human comprehension and is also beyond rationality and logic. How can we fully understand something infinite with our finite/limited intelligence? It is not possible to do so.

    I agree that words limit our thoughts and its subsequent meaning, however, more importantly, words limit experiences. Many times people try to understand what 'God' is and what the purpose of life is. For me, life is not meant to be rationally and logically analyzed - it is merely meant to be lived and experienced. In this same way, 'God' is also meant to be experienced - with every single breath, and within every single organism exists the same 'jot' and energy. This is what we are meant to be connecting to.

    Someone very close to me once questioned me on what I thought 'Sat-naam' meant. My immediate response was that satnaam means 'God's name is true'. However, on deeper contemplation, I was able to see that satnaam had a much more deeper meaning.

    Sat = Truth
    What is Truth? How can we describe it?
    Truth again is not meant to be described and limited by mere words - but rather it is meant to be felt and experienced.
    Truth is existing all around yet we cannot see it because we are so close to it. I once heard an analogy to describe this: One cannot see one's own eyelashes on one's eyelids because they are so close to one's own eye. In this same way, the truth is so close to us that we do not see it and acknowledge it.

    Naam
    Naam is a very complex concept and in the same way is also beyond words and human comprehension.
    Naam is the creator, naam is the creation, naam is the source.
    A person who has reached the stage of consciousness where they can see naam in every single being has been blessed with the experience of naam. Within each being exists the same life source - the same energy. If one is able to connect to this energy, then they have connected to naam.

    This is all I have to say for now... I'm not sure if I made any sense or not. Please forgive me if I have said anything to offend anyone in any way.
     
  7. Amarpal

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    Dear Khalsa Jee (person),

    First I say that your posting was fully in order. You have not offended any body.

    During discussions we pool our knowledge and learn from each other. Diverse views are strength of such discussions; they open up new avenues for thinking. Had you not written ‘--- words limit experience’ in your posting, I would have never thought about it. This statement of yours have triggered a thought process in my mind, which helped me to grow, I thank you for that. Sikhs are always in ‘Chadian Kalan’.

    Now I come to the issue.

    It is now my considered view that words cannot limit our experience.

    Words are what we humans have created to communicate among ourselves. They are not natural; they are man made entity to solve the problems of interaction. Experience is a natural process mediated by brain. The history of spoken language is not more than 60 000 years, the history of written language is not more that 10 000 years. The history of experiences is much longer i.e. as long as the existence of life. This means that words do not mediate in experience i.e. what we pass through in this process. To describe what is experienced we need words; the words limits us in verbalising our experiences. If one makes the block diagram, words will come on the output side of the block (experience) and not on the input side.

    If words were to mediate in our experience, then no human could ever experience ‘Almighty’ as we do not have words for it. We know, it is not so, our Guru Sahibs had experienced the ‘Almighty’.

    If ‘Almighty’ is to be experienced, then it has to be through brain only. Brain is the only faculty that we human have which can mediate in this process. Today, science knows that there are number of memory systems in the brain. Some of the memories are explicit or declarative, they can be verbalised. The other memories are referred too as procedural, implicit or non-declarative, they cannot be verbalised. What is stored in the implicit memory influences the person but the person cannot know it – this is human limitation.

    Experience of ‘Almighty’ must be so comprehensive and so overwhelming that it must be affecting all the memory systems of human brain. What get stored in implicit memories, which cannot be verbalised, we humans cannot give expression to it. The implicit memory affects the individual, the person may be experience the bliss resulting from realising the ‘Almighty’, yet she/he cannot convey to others what has happened to her/him, what has caused his new personality in her/him, and ultimately she/he cannot give full verbal expression to what she/he has experienced. The experience of ‘Almighty’ remains non-transferable.

    With all this, I say that words do not limit our experience; they only limit our ability to express what we have experienced.

    Khalsa Jee, I once again thank you for triggering this thought process in me. You have not offended any one. Be Happy, Keep Smiling.

    With Love and Respect for all.

    Amarpal
     
  8. person

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    Dear Amarpal jee.

    I agree that during discussions we are able to learn from each other and are even sometimes able to view things in a way that we were not able to before. Everyone comes to a discussion with different life experiences and different values and as a result of these experiences, they are able to view things in a different manner.

    In your response, you stated that:

    If ‘Almighty’ is to be experienced, then it has to be through brain only. Brain is the only faculty that we human have which can mediate in this process. Today, science knows that there are number of memory systems in the brain. Some of the memories are explicit or declarative, they can be verbalised. The other memories are referred too as procedural, implicit or non-declarative, they cannot be verbalised. What is stored in the implicit memory influences the person but the person cannot know it – this is human limitation.

    -----

    I'm not too sure whether or not 'Almighty' is exclusively experienced through the brain.... There also exists the intuitive aspect of the human self that is unexplainable through science and the physical brain structure. Yes, the brain may sort of have the ability to comprehend experience, but there are some things that are also unexplainable and are even beyond experience itself - that is where the Almighty is felt. The Almighty that is beyond reason, beyond logic, beyond comprehension, and even beyond human experience.

    I hope this makes sense....

    Person.
     
  9. Amarpal

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    Dear Khalsa Jee (person)

    Thank you again for your response. Dictionary meaning of intuition is, the act or faculty of knowing without the use of rational process.

    Rational thinking comes from cortex and the conscious memory systems that are associated with it. The functioning of this part of the brain we are conscious about; explicit memories are associated with it. All the cognitive processes of our brain take place here.

    There is another part of the brain the functioning of which we are not conscious; implicit memories are associated with it. Intuition comes from this part of the brain, the working of which is totally masked from our conscious brain and so we donot know how the result has come to our brain. Intuition is a brain function.

    Yet, unless one realises ‘The Almighty’ one cannot be sure what it is or how it is experienced. All, what we discuss are at best hypothesises only; to that extent I too cannot be absolutely sure how ‘The Almighty’ is experienced. What I have said is my current knowledge, which tells me that we experience God through brain.

    With Respect and Love for all.

    Amarpal
     
  10. Admin Singh

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    Why we do not feel or see the presense of God everywhere. Why this so much effort to experience the God. Do you think God is choosy...?

    Please take no offense... I am frequently asked such questions, so I am asking in this forum.

    Regards
     
  11. Amarpal

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    Dear Khalsa Jee (Ideal Singh),

    As I have stated in one of my earlier posting in the thread 'What is God': God is 'Cosmic Intelligence'. Intelligence cannot be seen through eyes or felt through touch.

    I am of the opinion that God is not choosy, for 'The Almight' we all are equal. Unless we develope the necessary interface to experience 'The Amight', we are going to miss it. It is development of this interface that needs efforts.

    With Respect and Love for all.

    Amarpal
     
  12. humanist

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    Freinds! Nam "Ik Onkar Sat Nam Siri Wahe Guru" appears in several old books which are available at Gobind Sadan in their library. There may be other sources, but may I mention these two: 1. 100 Sakhis by Bhai Ram Kaur, written in 1734, published by Bhai Chattar Singh and Jeevan Singh, Amritsar, and also Buta Singh, Partap Singh. Bhai Ram Kaur records at the end of Sakhi number 50, a converation between himself and Guru Gobind Singh, that Guru Gobind Singh said, "Ik onkar sat nam siri wahe guru" jap da rao Jap Sahib da path karta raoJab lag ghat mein pran. 2. Life and Teachings of Bhai Vir Singh, Maharaj Singh, Jaswant Singh,etc., published about 150 years ago. Bhai Vir Singh of Naurangabad was adisciple of Bhaj Singh, who was a disciple of Sahib Singh Vedi of Una,number 9 in the direct line of Guru Nanak, and a famous saint during the reign of Maharajah Ranjit Singh. On page 44 of this volume, it is written: "This is the teaching given by Sahib Singh Vedi to Sant VirSingh of Naurangabad:Bhai Vir Singh put the question, "When I read Guru Granth Sahib or Gurbani, I commit many mistakes. "Sahib Singh said, "Before starting reading of Gurbani, utter 5 times IkOnkar Sat Nam Siri Wahe Guru. After having finished the reading againutter the words Ik Onkar Sat Nam Siri Wahe Guru. Then all your mistakeswill be forgiven." He also instructed him, "Chant this Nam when you riseearly in the morning." For further help, kindly contact: Themissociijuris@yahoo.com or visit http://www.geocities.com/gulshanbajwa9/Themis-Webpage.html [N.B.: There is an underscore ( _ ) after "Themis".] Have a nice day! Humanist
     
  13. GushK

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    Re: I don't think that Naam Jaap is simple recitation of a word ..

    Thought I'd reiterate what's pretty much been already said here.

    Although it's easy to say that simlpe chanting is not benificial, when a thought pervades your mind for a reasonable amount of time, and is then repeated regularly you tend to become or take on aspects of that thought.

    Try sitting down and Jap " Satnaam Waheguru" for a couple of hours and when you finish, tell me if it didn't have any effect on you.

    Over time the simple superficial thought becomes deeper, more meaningful until it is finally engraved on your soul, and becomes part of you, where your thoughts forever rest.

    Of course, doing it just for the sake of doing it is not enough, you have to want to do it and this is only a part of the whole picture of also understanding gurbani and living it to the best of our ability.

    Gursharan Singh
     
  14. humanist

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    Naam is:
    "Ek Aumkar Satnam Srivaheguru"
    (sometimes misspelt as 'Ik Onkar Sat Nam Siri Wahe Guru').

    Its source is recited in the Janm-Skhis, to cite just two:-
    1. 100 Sakhis by Bhai Ram Kaur, written in 1734, published by BhaiChattar Singh and Jeevan Singh, Amritsar, and also Buta Singh, PartapSingh. Bhai Ram Kaur records at the end of Sakhi Number 50, aconveration between himself and Guru Gobind Singh, that Guru GobindSingh said, "Ik onkar sat nam siri wahe guru" jap karda rao Jap Sahib da path karta rao Jab lag ghat mein pran. 2. Life and Teachings of Bhai Vir Singh, Maharaj Singh, Jaswant Singh,etc., published about 150 years ago. Bhai Vir Singh of Naurangabad was adisciple of Bhaj Singh, who was a disciple of Sahib Singh Vedi of Una,number 9 in the direct line of Guru Nanak, and a famous saint during thereign of Maharajah Ranjit Singh. On page 44 of this volume, it iswritten: "This is the teaching given by Sahib Singh Vedi to Sant VirSingh of Naurangabad:Bhai Vir Singh put the question, "When I read Guru Granth Sahib orGurbani, I commit many mistakes."Sahib Singh said, "Before starting reading of Gurbani, utter 5 times IkOnkar Sat Nam Siri Wahe Guru. After having finished the reading againutter the words Ik Onkar Sat Nam Siri Wahe Guru. Then all your mistakeswill be forgiven." He also instructed him, "Chant this Nam when you riseearly in the morning."Happy Deepawali!Prof. Gulshan Bajwa
     

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