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Na koi hindu na koi mussalman - Guru Nanak

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Rajs, Aug 27, 2004.

  1. Rajs

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    Fellow Members,

    What did Guru Nanak mean by his statement "Na Koi Hindu Na Koi Mussalman"?

    Is it that,

    1. He is neither hindu nor mussalman?

    2. To God there is no differennce between a hindu and mussalman, or whoever ?

    3. People should not call themselves hindu or mussalman?

    4. He started a new religion - Sikhism?

    Any one with some insight or personal views?


    Regards
    Rajs

     
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  3. etinder

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    #2 etinder, Aug 27, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2015
  4. Rajs

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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    Dear etinder,


    He was to remind them that all the messengers and the prophets in history came only to lead people to the right path. These messengers never considered themselves belonging to one group. They were for all. It were the people who created a new group. Guru Nanak really did the right thing when he declared that he was neither a Hindu nor a Mussalman. Certainly that was not a denial of Islam or Hinduism. That was only a declaration that even those who called themselves Muslims were not really Muslims judged by the standards of their own religion. Nor was there a Hindu found in the world as he ought to be.” - Mushirul Haq



    Mr. Haq’s explanation on Guru Nanak’s statement concludes that, a Hindu is not following Hinduism as he/she should; and a Musalman is not following Islam as he/she should. Furthermore, he implies that Guru Nanak did not “create a new group" (i.e., Sikhism) but people did!



    Here are few other explanations rendered by various sources advocating Sikhism:



    "There is no Hindu and no Musalman." This meant that there was no difference between man and man. (But some interpret that both Hindus and Muslims had forgotten the precepts of their religions). (www.allaboutsikhs.com)



    Guru Nanak Dev further said, "There is no Hindu, no Musalman", implying that the dividing lines between the creeds are unreal and false. So men must come under a sole universal creed, wherein lies no scope for the sectarian discord. (www.sikh.net)



    "There is no Hindu, no Musalman", meaning thereby that man is spiritually one. He cannot be divided on the basis of religion. (www.sikhstudies.org)



    The first message of Guru Nanak, “There is no Hindu, no Musalman; we are equal humans and are all loved by God,” (www.sikhism.com)



    From the above quotes, we can deduce that Mr. Haq’s explanation is a personal opinion and does not quite agree with the explanation rendered by quoted sources, which seem to imply that Guru Nanak did not identify people with their religious belief.



    It is often stated that Guru Nanak started a “universal” religion, Sikhism, which is tolerant of other faiths; and considers all faiths to be equal, i.e., many paths leading to same destination. But, if Guru Nanak DID NOT agree with categorizing people according to religious belief then how can he be the founder of a new religious belief - Sikhism?



    Regards

    Rajs
     
  5. BabbarSher

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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    Dear Rajs:

    Yes, Guru Nanak did not agree with categorizing people intow restricted, closed clusters of Hindu, Muslims, Christians.

    Guru Nanak belived that no one had the right to claim exclusvitiy to act as an intercessor with God. And this implies to people who claim that their prophets were sons of God, his right hand, or that only they can enter heavnes, or that they can only be saved through a designated auhtority -- all these were rejected by Guru Nanak.

    He believed the one true religion to be the Name of God. And this my dear rajs is the foundation of sikhi - which means to learn and improve constantly.

    Everything in sikhi, be it keeping hair, or the K's revolves around this only. Ponder and you will get it. If you still dont, come back and I will try and explain.

    Akal sahai
     
  6. drkhalsa

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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    Dear Rajs

    Iwelcome back once again

    It is often stated that Guru Nanak started a “universal” religion, Sikhism, which is tolerant of other faiths; and considers all faiths to be equal, i.e., many paths leading to same destination. But, if Guru Nanak DID NOT agree with categorizing people according to religious belief then how can he be the founder of a new religious belief - Sikhism?


    As i think of this situation that nanak didnt agree with either muslim and hindu then how he could lead to formation of new faith

    According to my belief and understanding religions as they existed in times of guru ji and even today are not needed for realisation of god and i consider it is a pathless journey
    so question arises that if it is so then why guru nanak lead to the formation of sikhism as a new religion as i think it is not a religion at all it totally a new kind of thing which cant be categorised in already existing class of religions ( hinduism, Islam chritianity)
    but it is inediquacy of people who look at it as a religion

    I n Sikhism it is journey toward s feet of akal puralkh with guidance of our gurujis who themselves went the same way and so fuuly able to guide us on this path.
    .
     
  7. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    No one is a child of a lesser God

    Most religions were created like exclusive bazaars to lasso the followers in shopping only in their respective market places. If they chose to shop in some other bazaar they would be punished and would end up in a dungeon called hell. The perfect scare tactics used by Hinduism, Islam and Christanity.

    These religions claimed to have the only key to unlock the padlock of spirituality.

    Padlock??

    Yes, padlock. Religions based on fear needed to have their 'cattle' fenced and blindfolded so they could not peek on the other side.

    This 'My God is better than yours' doctrine continued for centuries till the birth of GURU NANAK. He saw that the religions of the time had become exclusive clubs busy in criticising others' in order to create an impression of their 'golf courses' being more attractive with less sand traps.

    Guru Nanak saw IK ONG KAAR totally differently than what the honchos of Hinduism, Islam and Christanity projected ONE GOD to be. He took the monoply out of the hands of the chosen classes thus made the path...the link..the connection with IK ONG KAAR for all. He showed that every soul on this universe and beyond has the same right and is also bestowed with the same light. If the Sun, ONE GOD'S creation gives warmth to all peoples from all relgions and creeds then how can ONE GOD only belongs to the few..the so called chosen ones??!!

    What Guru Nanak did was very courageous. He condemned these religions - the feuding gods- and showed them the universality of IK ONG KAAR.

    He refuted all the silly rituals in the religions and showed that seeking GOD was not as tricky as the Brahimns, Mullahs and the Christian clergy projected it to be and GOD'S grace did not only fall on those who ate halal meat or those who created caste system to supress the others nor did it fall on the 'Born againers'. Born again Christians claim that only those who are born again are saved.

    Saved from what??

    It shows that thier deity did not do a good job the very first time.

    Following is one of many verses in The Bible that shows how fear hatred and anger is used in christanity:-

    God said to the others, Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children." (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

    Guru Nanak's questioning of these silly rituals evolved into a different school of thought. He made people see that everyone had the same right irrespective of their socio-economic status. He called himself a SIKH- a Student - A Seeker of IK ONG KAAR. It is a must to notice that Guru Nanak ( who never called himself a Guru) did not name his followers after his name but gave all including himself a single name SIKH- A Learner.

    A Sikh embraces the world with open arms, sans fear. Fear based religions make people live in fetal position.

    How can one embrace IK ONG KAAR in that posture??!!!

    Sikhism means a group of students who collectively have one goal and that is to learn about themselves and others so all can become better than what they are.

    Sikhism is IDEA BASED religion unlike most of the others that are personality based. Our GURU, our teacher is GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI not a person, which is the fruit of 200 some years of evolution through 10 teachers instilling ONE IDEA- of ONE GOD for all.

    Sikhism was not created by some magical miracle like the religions mentioned where 'God' gave the authority to the chosen few, in this particular case Jesus and Mohammed. God that picks and chooses is NOT ONE TRUE GOD as we are all HIS children. Hence the logical conclusion which can be derived from these schools of thought is that some people thought themselves as gods and/or the exclusive messengers where ONE GOD only spoke to/ through them. These beings who pretended to be gods or the exclusive spokespersons of the Almighty got emboldened and created means of terror and fear to control the weak and the ignorant. They created a carrot and stick concept by inventing Heaven and Hell in the worlds beyond. They told all those who did not adhere to their teaching would perish in Hell and those who followed them would end up in a Utopia called heaven. Some even threw 72 virgins in the gift basket.They even named them God fearing. The fear trick worked, rather very well.

    Guru Nanak thought all this as nothing but hypocricy. He showed people that we all are gifts from GOD and showed them that only Love is the connection. In order to cultivate this love, He taught people a 3 step program, Worship, Work and Welfare. Thousands of people specially the weak, the fearful got attracted to this new open gate seeking ONE GOD concept. They rejected their silly rituals and unfruitful beliefs thus became Sikhs- The Learners, the followers of Truth.

    Hence this unique school of thought became a religion of the SEEKERS called Sikhism where people from all hues and creeds could come together and praise ONE TRUE GOD sans scary dogma of Hell or Heaven.

    "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    The above lines from Guru Nanak have been distorted by other religions, specially by Hindus, Muslims and the Converted Christians who have been indoctrinated not to think on their own. BTW, A person that converts from one religion to the other ( religion shopping) is only trying to change its spots by changing rituals that fit a particular faith. He has been blindfolded and can not see that goodness needs none of it.

    Now back to the above verse:-

    What Guru Nanak meant was that we are all IK ONG KAAR'S children irrespective of our hue, creed or faith.

    Christians and Muslims have been brainwashed to think that their respective Deities are the only Portal/s to ONE GOD's realm. By sheer trickery they created thier own wells where thier respective frogs could dwell and remain in those self created little worlds rather than live in THE ONE universal ocean of love and understanding.

    In conclusion, I would like to add that Hindu, Christian, Muslim are religious labels whereas being a SIKH is a way of life.

    "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak. All are Seekers, learners, students...Sikhs.

    No one is a child of a lesser god.

    The same thought process is again expressed in the following Shabad by 5th Guru which shows the continuation of IDEA BASED ONE GOD.

    This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Kaanraa on Pannaa 1299

    kwnVw mhlw 5 ]
    kaanarraa mehalaa 5 ||
    Kaanraa, Fifth Mehl:

    ibsir geI sB qwiq prweI ]
    bisar gee sabh thaath paraaee ||
    I have totally forgotten my jealousy of others,

    jb qy swDsMgiq moih pweI ]1] rhwau ]
    jab thae saadhhasa(n)gath mohi paaee ||1|| rehaao ||
    since I found the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ||1||Pause||

    nw ko bYrI nhI ibgwnw sgl sMig hm kau bin AweI ]1]
    naa ko bairee nehee bigaanaa sagal sa(n)g ham ko ban aaee ||1||
    No one is my enemy, and no one is a stranger. I get along with everyone. ||1||

    jo pRB kIno so Bl mwinE eyh sumiq swDU qy pweI ]2]
    jo prabh keeno so bhal maaniou eaeh sumath saadhhoo thae paaee ||2||
    Whatever God does, I accept that as good. This is the sublime wisdom I have obtained from the Holy. ||2||

    sB mih riv rihAw pRBu eykY pyiK pyiK nwnk ibgsweI ]3]8]
    sabh mehi rav rehiaa prabh eaekai paekh paekh naanak bigasaaee ||3||8||
    The One God is pervading in all. Gazing upon Him, beholding Him, Nanak blossoms forth in happiness. ||3||8||


    Tejwant
     
  8. Sher Singh

    Sher Singh
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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    What Guru Nanak meant was that there are so many pukhandis out that sayiing their Muslims and Hindus. But in fact, is there a real Muslim and Hindu? No, there isnt! Why? because as Guru Ji was asked by a Qazi, "Please Expliain what you mean by There is no Hindu and there is no Mussalman, about the Hindus i shall say nothing but there are hundreds of Muslims in this very town. There are thousands of them in the country! What you say is not true"

    Guru Nanak replied, " It is true that there are thousands who call themselves Muslims. There are thousands who call themselves Hindus. All the same, there is no Hindu. There is no Muslim. The Hindus have forgotton the rules of their religion and Muslims have forgotton the rules of their religion as well. All Hindus and Muslims are sons of the same Father. They are brothers. But they are not doing so. A true Hindu and a true Muslim should do nothing that may displease God. He should do such acts as may please God. Some acts are: to be kind and merciful to all His children; to do no harm to any one; to be just, humble, and truthfuk; to avoid anger, greed, and pride; not to take what belongs to another by right; ever to think of God; to earn a living by honest labour; to share one's earnings with the poor and the needy; to try to make others live and act in this way. Now, look around you, and tell me how many people do all this? How many people can be called True Hindus or Muslims?"

    The Qazi had nothing to say and fell at the Guru's feet.

    That is the true meaning of "Na koi Hindu, Na koi Mussalman"

    Hope that helps :)
     
  9. luthra_sumeet

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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    can some body post that at what page in sri guru granth sahib does this line appears ("Na koi hindu na koi mussalman") as i have read one shabad in someother discussion grp to be

    "Na hum hindu Na muslman allah ram ke pind pran."

    or are these two different shabads

    i would like to verify what is the original shabads .

    -Sumeet Singh Luthra
     
  10. Sher Singh

    Sher Singh
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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    I have tried to look up the Shabad, "No koi Hindu, Na koi Mussalman" but i could not find anything. All I know is that Guru Nanak after 3 days in the water came out and said this Shabad.

    Guru Arjan Dev Ji however says,

    Page 1136, Line 11 -- Guru Arjan Dev

    nw hm ihMdU n muslmwn ]
    I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.
    naa ham hindoo na musalmaan.

    There aren't 2 different Shabads as to what i know.

    Hope that helps :)
     
    #9 Sher Singh, Apr 25, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  11. gursidak

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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    This has been an absorbing discussion.

    An important point I want to add to points already made is that neither Siri Guru Nanak or any of the other Sikh Gurus preempted followers of any 'religion' whatsoever from the final realization or Moksha and 'technically' there was always equal chance for everyone irrespective of his/her religion. This is definitely unique to Sikhism and precludes in the least any possibility of Sikhism being a religion like others.

    I have reasons to believe that no other 'religion' talks of final emancipation of the followers of any other religion but its own, but here we hear that be it hindu or mussalman, he has no one else but himself to hold responsible for what comes. As he sows, so shall he reap thanks to his Karma. Since at the very beginning Siri Guru Nanak did not propose a separate sect but addressed the humanity in common including Hindus, Muslims, and other, so each and every teaching is common to all. On dwelling a bit more even into the Banis of all the Bhagats in Siri Guru Granth Sahib, it is obvious that never was a specific religion or sect concluded as a favorite. The reason is obvious that no religion can preclude your Karma and grant you an automatic entry into so-called 'Heaven or Hell.' Maybe that's the reason that Sikh belief was never sought to be promoted as a separate 'religion' by our Gurus. No importance was given to what religion one belonged to or, for instance, Mia Mir wouldn't have laid the foundation stone of Siri Harmandir Sahib and ample other instances throughout Sikh history.

    For one, it beats me as to why Sikhism is being looked as a fast-growing Company looked upon by some 'so-called' Huge Corporations to be taken over. Sikhism is in a different league by way of the fact that even at the inception, it was never meant to be a religion. Sikhism was never a religion but a spiritual way of life.

    Also, I would like to mention that never in the history of Sikhism were any efforts whatsoever made by anyone to convert people of other religions by any means to Sikhism (neither force nor any other means of canvassing - Maharaja Ranjit Singh's rule was never used for such ulterior motives). Here, it again strengthens the belief that Sikhism was never groomed on the conventional definition of "religion' as is obvious from the history of other 'religions.'

    Guru Rakha

    God Bless All
     
  12. Sher Singh

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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    Excellent post gursidak!!!!! very good!!!
     
  13. Arvind

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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    Gursidak ji,
    I liked reading your post. Continue sharing please.
    Regards.
     
  14. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: "Na koi hindu na koi mussalman" - Guru Nanak

    Gurfateh



    keep it up.Akal Bless you.
     
  15. Amardeep

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    how can u say that sikhi is not a religion when Guru Gobind singh clearly states sikhism as a religion.

    “I have cherished thee as my Son, and created thee to establish a religion and restrain the world from senseless acts. I stood up, folded my hands, bowed my head and replied,‘Thy religion will prevail in all the world, when it has Thy support’.”

    http://sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Gobind_Singh
     
  16. Amardeep

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    sorry..when waheguru states sikhism to be a religion.
     

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