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Atheism My thoughts on (a) God

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by namritanevaeh, Jan 18, 2014.

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  1. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    I find myself at a confusing point in my life I think. I enjoy Sikhi. I enjoy learning about religions in general. But none of my learning has convinced me there is (a) god. Almost, the opposite I might say.

    Here are some of my thoughts:

    a) Many religions seem to claim, or at least have adherants who do claim that if you believe in god you will go to heaven. If you don't you will go to hell. My take on it is...if there IS a truely loving and forgiving almighty god, then surely he or she should be able to forgive the minor transgression of not believing in him or her, if you are a loving and decent human being.

    b) many religious texts seem to have multiple areas where they claim god did this or that, most of which are actually pretty HORRIBLE situations. Floods, killing of people, raping of people. Why, if the so-called loving caring god is seemingly intent on hurting and killing his or her people, would I want to follow that god? My kids make transgressions all the time but I don't try to kill them, or whatever. Part of being a parent is forgiving and getting over it when kids hurt you or do silly things. I've seen texts that claim that supposedly god killed thousands more people in the bible than the devil did...why on earth??

    c) A little along the lines of a), there are many people out there with quite a "holier than thou" chip on their shoulder. They are *more* (insert religion) than someone else because they are more diligent at following the religious books than the next person along. They act as if they are better, and thus are more likely to be forgiven than the next person along too. And so, we end up with people who think their religion is the only way of being good and gaining access to heaven...not based on really doing much towards humanity (really, what does not cutting one's hair do for HUMANITY? what does wearing a muslim head covering do for all of humanity? What about celebrating Christmas, Easter, or Channukah? Do ANY of those, in and of themselves, help people out in general? NO.). There are decent kind loving Sikh people who cut their hair because they don't see it as the be-all end-all of what defines them as a person and what defines their attitude towards their religion, and there are people who are Christian who seem to claim that just because they actually WEAR a cross around their neck they are better than those who don't. Really, in the end, who cares what you do about your own body, your own person, YOU in general? It is what you do for OTHERS that should count (why I enjoy doing seva).

    d) so often very religious people seem to be content to tell people who are suffering that god CHOOSES them to suffer to prove his love to them. This kind of comes back to b) again. I want to say what on earth is that supposed to mean??? Why would I want to have any desire whatsoever to believe in a god, a father/mother figure who will MAKE ME SUFFER ON PURPOSE??? I'd much rather believe in karma and hazard and things happening not necessarily for a reason but just...because. Because you're in the wrong place at the wrong time kind of stuff.

    Assuming there IS a judgement day...that once we die we do go off either to heaven or hell...I am sure that I will be directed towards the best place for me based on how I acted towards others, towards society, and not what religion I practice in this life...hey maybe I'll be reincarnated as a rock. ;-)
     
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    What if there were no judgement, what if god did not have a personality, what if god did not care what you did, what if instead, you were blessed by the truth and damned by the lies, without a need for a god. Gravity is a truth, you would hardly jump off a tall building and then beg gravity for mercy.

    God does not kill people, people kill people, sometimes people kill people in gods name, in my view, the personalisation of god has not helped this

    Ah yes, the 'sorry I am too busy praying to help you at the moment',

    I am not keen on religious people, religion, with all its rituals, superstitions, misguided faith, corruptions, division, religion breeds religious people, who do not tire of telling you how religious they are

    wouldnt life be boring without religion, no judgement day, no reincarnation, should we judge ourselves instead? that would be a novelty
     
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  4. Requiem

    Requiem
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    Hello :)

    I'm working on a project for school so this is going to be done quickly, but I wanted to share my thoughts with you before I left.

    Your 'adherence' is undisclosed so I can only assume that you are not a Sikh. I am a convert from an Abrahamic background so I am hoping this'll be helpful because seeing as you live in Canada, you've likely been exposed to Judeo-Christian culture your entire life.

    I do not believe in a god. By 'god' I am talking about a supernatural creator of any sorts. The God I believe in has always existed, will always exist and is the eternal Truth. Perhaps it is a supreme reality to which we all belong, maybe it is a universal consciousness to which we are all linked, or perhaps it is nothing more than the cosmic laws which govern our existence. But it is not something I think about a lot, because as Guru Nanak put it, "by thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking an infinite number of times."

    Human intelligence is limited. Our ability to understand and absorb information is limited because we are imperfect, finite beings. We do not live forever and we experience reality subjectively. 'God' (whatever He/She/It may be) has always existed, will always exist and is the objective Truth which pervades every inch of the universe.

    We share about 98.6% DNA with chimpanzees. We are smarter than chimpanzees. So let's invent a measure of intelligence which makes humans unique. Let us assume that 'intelligence' is your ability to to, for example, compose poetry, symphonies, do art, math and science. Let's make that the arbitrary definition of 'intelligence' for the moment. Chimps can't do any of that. Yet we share 98.6% identical DNA. The most brilliant chimp there ever was could perhaps do a little bit of sign language; well, our toddlers can do that. Toddlers, babies, human infants. So here's what cocnerns me deeply. Veer deeply. EVERYTHING that we are, that distinguishes us from chimps, emerges from that teensy-tiny 1.4% difference in DNA. It has to, because that is the only difference. The Hubble Telescope, Rocket hips, the moon landing, giant mirrors which have allowed us to see the birth of the universe itself, the future colonization of mars, general relativity, quantum mechanics, string theory, Shakespeare, philosophy, religion, EVERYTHING is in that 1.4%.

    But maybe we aren't as smart as we think we are. Maybe the difference between chimps and humans isn't actually that large. Maybe it isn't actually that much more impressive that we humans can build spaceships whereas chimps can combine their fingers together to communicate a message. Maybe humans aren't all that great. We tell ourselves that it is a lot, but maybe it is almost nothing.

    How do we decide that? Well, imagine ANOTHER life form somewhere out there in the universe, which is 1.4% different from us, in the same way that we are 1.4% different from chimps. Think about that. With a 1.4% difference from chimps, we have been able to capture images of the birth of the universe itself. Well, now go up another 1.4%. What are we to they? We would be drooling, blithering idiots in their presence! They would take Stephen Hawking and roll him in front of their scientists and say "well this one is the most brilliant among them, because he can sorta do astrophysics in his head..." and then someone else would say "aww isn't that cute, little Johnny can do that too! Oh here look, he worked out this astrophysics theory all by himself yesterday, we put it on the refrigerator door, he did it in his elementary school class."

    Think about how smart they would be! Their toddlers would be more intelligent than the smartest humans. Quantum mechanics would be intuitive to their babies. Whole symphonies, far greater than anything our musicians have ever produced, would be composed by their kids and put up on the refridgerator door, the same way pasta-collages are on our refrigerator doors.

    So this notion that we humans, with our limited, imperfect brains and subjective understanding of reality, are every going to be able to fully comprehend God, the MOST advanced being in existence (forget about 1.4%, God would be an infinite number of times more advanced than us), is preposterous. Anybody who claims to have spoken with God is a liar. When was the last time you stopped to speak with a worm? Why would God speak with us? Yes, there are religions in which prophets have claimed to have spoken with God and received a divine message. Well some God that turned out to be, because the world today is a better place than it was thousands of years ago in spite of, not because of, those religions (or any religion). If you study the theology of a lot of religions, it is exactly the kind of stuff you would have expected our ancestors to have come up with it. Stoning people to death, blasphemy, smiting, homophobia, none of this stuff is from the most advanced being in existence, it is straight out of the minds of men who lived thousands of years ago in ignorance, back before science, reason and logic.

    Wanna know how I knew the Gurus were sincere? Because they admitted that God is "incomprehensible" and "inaccessible". When Guru Nanak was asked about the age of the universe (in japji), he admitted that he did not know. They did not claim to be divinely chosen, nor did they claim to be perfect.

    Now like I said, I do not believe in a sueprnatural god with emotions/consciousness/sentience, simply because I have no reason to do so. I am not saying that such a god couldn't exist, just that there isn't any evidence to suggest that such a being is real. The philosophy of the Guru Granth Sahib does not depend on the existence of such a being, which is why I am still able to call myself a 'Sikh' despite my atheistic tendancies.

    I will leave you with this (first pauri/stanza of Japji):

    It took a while, but I eventually figured out (what I believe to be) the real meaning of this pauri. God (whatever He/She/It may be) will never be reduced to thought by humans. We may get a better understanding of how our universe works, just like a chimp may get a better understanding of what a space ship is by exploring its insides and seeing it blast off, but in the end, the chimp will never even come close to appreciating the power, significance and complexity of a space ship, just like we won't ever completely understand God. We are imperfect, finite, limited beings, we cannot fully understand that which is perfect, timeless and limitless.

    Same thing with remaining absorbed within, meditation may be a useful tool (in moderation), but you can't truly appreciate the beauty of life if that is all you do all day.

    Material goods may make you happy temporarily, but in the long-run, money can't buy happiness.

    Even the most clever men and women eventually die and that cleverness does not remain with us forever. You can't trick your way into being happy.

    The veil of illusion is only torn away by walking in the way of His will= living in consonance with creation, not running away from life but living in it fully and experiencing everything it has to offer.

    I found this explanation in another thread here on SPN:

    "Salvation is not reached in an ethereal sense (i.e. "do this and you'll be rewarded" sense), but rather an inner peace and tranquility of humbling oneself against the greater universe is an experience that allows one to come to terms with their own diminutive stature with regards to the universe. Once we have broken those foundations of ego and pride, then we can begin to build ourselves back up."

    But you can only do that by living life and experiencing it for yourself. I could tell you what a rose looks like, but you won't know its true beauty until you see it for yourself.

    So my advice is to discard this notion of a personal god who rewards and punishes. Floods/earthquakes are not from god, they happen because of natural laws which govern the universe. Rape is not god's doing, it happens because people are not able to control themselves.

    And there is no reward for being religious, the universe existed before we were born and will continue to exist long after we are dead. There is nothing unique about humans (even though we like to think there is), we are a product of the natural workings of the universe. There are likely an innumerable amount of alien species out there which are far more advanced than we could ever aspire to be.

    This turned out to be pretty long lol, I apologize, but do yourself a favor: forget about karma, reincarnation, heaven, hell, punshment and reward and instead do the only thing that really matters: "walk in the way of His Will." :)
     
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  5. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    Dhanvaad requiem ji.

    I found what you wrote interesting. However...I'm not 100% sure I agree with us being "1.4% superior" really to chimps. Different, perhaps. There are many many animals out there that have capacities that we could not even begin to fathom having. Ant colonies are fascinating as are bee colonies. The dances bees do for showing where to go get pollen?? Phenominal. Chimps may only be able to learn a small amount of our sign language but maybe we are are too stupid to learn whatever language THEY have to teach US??

    Many many animals (I think bees and ants, as well as butterflies... are amongst them) use pheromones far far more specifically than we do. Let me tell you I have SOME first hand experience with pheromones (which I equate, in the world of *relationships* to "chemistry")... I can tell you when you are NOT with someone who is good for you, in that chemical-balance/pheromone way...they smell bad. Like the kind of smell bad where they take a shower and an hour or less later they smell awful. From across the room. When you are with someone who is a match for you...they have eaten onions for lunch, and have gone for a run and are all sweaty and they STILL smell good to you. And yet...despite that small experience...I am PRETTY darned sure that if a bee or butterfly or ant were to interview me on MY experiences with pheromones? If we could communicate, that is ;-) they would find that I didn't even touch the slightest bit of the iceberg of what it means to THEM.

    So I think we're all differently intelligent.

    But really, I'm NOT overly concerned about karma heaven hell etc., I really AM concerned in really only living my life well and doing what I feel it takes to be a GOOD human being (for that is what I am). I do, however, find it irksome if people kind of harp on me about how if I don't believe in Jesus, don't pray, whatever, that I will be punished somewhere down the line. Luckily not everyone seems to think that.

    (also thanks to Harry for your thoughts on this post! :))
     
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  6. anon

    anon United Kingdom
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    Please be patient with my lack of Sikh knowledge, I have been locked in a Sikh family all of my life, my beard, my turban and my family's control over my life are starting to bother me to the point where i have only now just started to look into why i actually do these things. If i have the family pressure to follow a traditional life style I may aswell see where these traditions have arisen... I Say this because this has brought my attention to Sikh History and has motivated my reading Gurbani.

    I have limited knowledge of Sikh history, philosophy and Gurbani so please excuse any errors and correct mistakes where I have made them


    I do not believe in a god. By 'god' I am talking about a supernatural creator of any sorts.

    From what I've read the follower of Guru Nanak is must concede that god is a creator. Guru Nanak referred to god as Sat-Kartar if i am not mistaken and the first Sikh prayer any child learns tells us that the god of the Sikhs is KIRTA PURAKH, the creator of all...

    I'd like to make a little aside here, alot of people on SPN deal with the atheists by likening Sikhism to Atheism, it's odd but quite often sikhs respond with something like:

    "Silly atheist, you are confusing the Sikh god with the Abrahamic god, no of course we don't believe in the magical man in the sky with a beard who we must submit ourselves to! our conception of God is much deeper, much more complex and your atheist arguments, while relevant in a christian, Jewish or Islamic debate bears NO credence in a debate of Sikh philosophy..."

    I don't like these responses, these are just words but to me a lot of sikh history, practice and philosophy does indicate a God whose existance can be debated using the same arguements Atheists use in discussions with christians, jews and muslims.

    The God I believe in has always existed, will always exist and is the eternal Truth. Perhaps it is a supreme reality to which we all belong, maybe it is a universal consciousness to which we are all linked, or perhaps it is nothing more than the cosmic laws which govern our existence. But it is not something I think about a lot, because as Guru Nanak put it, "by thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking an infinite number of times."

    I'm glad you put the God I believe in, because a sound proof the existence of the god who possesses such a nature you detail would intrest me very much.

    the God you believe in has always existed, my knowledge of the different forms of the cosmological argument is even less than my knowledge of sikhi but (i paraphrase) Carl Sagan (and i'm sure philosophers before him), have persuaded me that an initial uncaused cause does not necessarily have to be God, Perhaps the initial uncaused cause was the universe itself, it has always existed (although maybe we cant make the claim that it always will). Alot of SPN users liken the universe and god as a single entity "God is the universe" they say. Again they say one thing but to me sikh history and practices really indicate the other.

    If God from a sikh perspective is the embodiment of the universe (as apposed to the abrahamic man in the clouds) why do sikhs meditate on the universes name? buddhists enjoy the benefits of meditation by concentrating on their breath rather than a man made word for god...

    Why in an Ardas do Sikhs ask "the universe" for things

    Why do we need to be good people? why can't i go around killing, torturing, stealing and doing other bad things... is "the universe" going to judge us?

    to me the sikh god is the man in the clouds, the creator and the judge.



    Human intelligence is limited. Our ability to understand and absorb information is limited because we are imperfect, finite beings. We do not live forever and we experience reality subjectively. 'God' (whatever He/She/It may be) has always existed, will always exist and is the objective Truth which pervades every inch of the universe.

    I don't understand how a being that you do not know the gender/nature of can be the objective truth of the universe (using your statment: Whatever He/She/It may be). To me the truth that "All batchelors are unmarried" is quite an objective truth. My knowledge of logic is even more lacking than my knowledge of sikhism and philosophy but this definition of god as being "truth" seems quite flimsy, poetic and just not very robust to me, it sounds very nice, it would make a nice sing or a poem but i really don't understand what this means...


    We share about 98.6% DNA with chimpanzees. We are smarter than chimpanzees. So let's invent a measure of intelligence which makes humans unique. Let us assume that 'intelligence' is your ability to to, for example, compose poetry, symphonies, do art, math and science. Let's make that the arbitrary definition of 'intelligence' for the moment. Chimps can't do any of that. Yet we share 98.6% identical DNA. The most brilliant chimp there ever was could perhaps do a little bit of sign language; well, our toddlers can do that. Toddlers, babies, human infants. So here's what cocnerns me deeply. Veer deeply. EVERYTHING that we are, that distinguishes us from chimps, emerges from that teensy-tiny 1.4% difference in DNA. It has to, because that is the only difference. The Hubble Telescope, Rocket hips, the moon landing, giant mirrors which have allowed us to see the birth of the universe itself, the future colonization of mars, general relativity, quantum mechanics, string theory, Shakespeare, philosophy, religion, EVERYTHING is in that 1.4%.

    But maybe we aren't as smart as we think we are. Maybe the difference between chimps and humans isn't actually that large. Maybe it isn't actually that much more impressive that we humans can build spaceships whereas chimps can combine their fingers together to communicate a message. Maybe humans aren't all that great. We tell ourselves that it is a lot, but maybe it is almost nothing.

    How do we decide that? Well, imagine ANOTHER life form somewhere out there in the universe, which is 1.4% different from us, in the same way that we are 1.4% different from chimps. Think about that. With a 1.4% difference from chimps, we have been able to capture images of the birth of the universe itself. Well, now go up another 1.4%. What are we to they? We would be drooling, blithering idiots in their presence! They would take Stephen Hawking and roll him in front of their scientists and say "well this one is the most brilliant among them, because he can sorta do astrophysics in his head..." and then someone else would say "aww isn't that cute, little Johnny can do that too! Oh here look, he worked out this astrophysics theory all by himself yesterday, we put it on the refrigerator door, he did it in his elementary school class."

    Think about how smart they would be! Their toddlers would be more intelligent than the smartest humans. Quantum mechanics would be intuitive to their babies. Whole symphonies, far greater than anything our musicians have ever produced, would be composed by their kids and put up on the refridgerator door, the same way pasta-collages are on our refrigerator doors.


    you propose one model of intelligence, but then make a number of assumptions,

    1) that there are indeed beings in the universe that are more intelligent than us (by this model)
    And as for weather or not you claim these beings to be God:
    2) why would these super intelligent beings be interested with us, when we build hospitals we don't care about destroying anthills...
    if these super intelligent being did exist why would he care about how we live our lives? anyway your analogy of super intelligent beings evokes the "Man in the clouds" abrahamic image of God again...


    So this notion that we humans, with our limited, imperfect brains and subjective understanding of reality, are every going to be able to fully comprehend God, the MOST advanced being in existence (forget about 1.4%, God would be an infinite number of times more advanced than us), is preposterous.

    this is a defeatist attitude... i'm sure the thought that I could send messages to someone on the other side of the planet was a preposterous thought in the 11th century...

    Anybody who claims to have spoken with God is a liar.

    I think most sakhis would have us believe that Guru Nanak spoke to God and recited japji to him in Sultanpur?

    When was the last time you stopped to speak with a worm? Why would God speak with us? Yes, there are religions in which prophets have claimed to have spoken with God and received a divine message.

    Guru Nanak did...

    Well some God that turned out to be, because the world today is a better place than it was thousands of years ago in spite of, not because of, those religions (or any religion). If you study the theology of a lot of religions, it is exactly the kind of stuff you would have expected our ancestors to have come up with it. Stoning people to death, blasphemy, smiting, homophobia, none of this stuff is from the most advanced being in existence, it is straight out of the minds of men who lived thousands of years ago in ignorance, back before science, reason and logic.

    Most Sikhs today would have us believe that in our age of science, technology, drugs and logic we are living in Kaljug, the only pain in my life is that which has come from a 300 year old relgion that makes me keep a beard.

    Wanna know how I knew the Gurus were sincere? Because they admitted that God is "incomprehensible" and "inaccessible".

    I don't know much about debating and arguing so i can't think of a technical term but the phrase "Win-Win" comes to mind.

    Let's imagine 2 scenarios, one in which god exist's and one in which god does not.

    The atheist and theist debate: the atheist claims god does not exist, the theist claim's that god is so complex that you cannot prove his existence with modern science, philosophy, maths or logic.

    in both scenarios, the one in which god exists and the one in which god does not the theist can make same statement... which scenario do we live in?

    When Guru Nanak was asked about the age of the universe (in Japji), he admitted that he did not know. They did not claim to be divinely chosen, nor did they claim to be perfect.

    If the Guru's weren't perfect or Divinely chosen then the book the wrote (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) wasn't perfect or divinely chosen, why should it be so central to our lives?


    Now like I said, I do not believe in a sueprnatural god with emotions/consciousness/sentience, simply because I have no reason to do so. I am not saying that such a god couldn't exist, just that there isn't any evidence to suggest that such a being is real. The philosophy of the Guru Granth Sahib does not depend on the existence of such a being,

    Im reading japji, im only starting but... to claim that the philosophy of the Guru Granth Sahib does not depend on the existence of god seems crazy to me...

    There is one god
    his name is true
    he is without fear etc etc...

    are you really going to claim that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not depend on the existance of god? if god didn't exist then Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is really pointless...


    which is why I am still able to call myself a 'Sikh' despite my atheistic tendancies.

    I will leave you with this (first pauri/stanza of Japji):



    It took a while, but I eventually figured out (what I believe to be) the real meaning of this pauri. God (whatever He/She/It may be) will never be reduced to thought by humans.

    As you stated above the Gurus who wrote Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were not perfect. I'm not going to accept that question of the existence of god cannot be resolved by the human brain simply because a book written by imperfect Gurus said so.

    We may get a better understanding of how our universe works, just like a chimp may get a better understanding of what a space ship is by exploring its insides and seeing it blast off, but in the end, the chimp will never even come close to appreciating the power, significance and complexity of a space ship, just like we won't ever completely understand God. We are imperfect, finite, limited beings, we cannot fully understand that which is perfect, timeless and limitless.

    I think that's quite defeatest.



    So I didn't respond to all of your post, but alot of what i read on SPN really bothers me, SIkhs are adamant that their god isn't abrahamic, but it many ways the sikh god is...
     
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  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    anon ji

    You made a number of quality arguments for debate, in the way of a philosopher and skeptic (a good thing, not a bad thing). However, I am not convinced that you have shown us how the 'god' of Sikhs is abrahamic. Please give more examples and details.

    A second aspect that needs more clarification: Your critique pays attention to what may very well be contradictions in beliefs of many Sikhs. Yet, you may be leaning on a particular subset of beliefs expressed about 'god' at SPN and maybe elsewhere. By way of example, a Sikh who would argue that reincarnation is a hoax not a dogma, may also be a Sikh who does not resort to heavy personification of a Sikh 'god.' I am thinking of a scholar like Baldev Singh.

    These are open issues for me. I enjoyed what you had to say. It was both incisive and temperate.
     
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  8. anon

    anon United Kingdom
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    Thanks, like I said i'm really only starting to scratch the surface with Sikh literature... I can't really bring up many more examples because I forget most of the Sakhis I read after I read them.

    So far my experience of Gurbani and History just gives the impression of God in Sikhism as the "Magical man in the clouds"... I can only provide very few specific examples of this because of my lack of knowledge but the use of pronouns, human emotions, the stories about miracles, the Revelation of God to people in Sikh history and when people appeal to god through prayer really build up the image of the Sikh god as a Personal god rather than a force or an embodiment of a concept like "Truth"

    Perhaps when I've read more Gurbani, more historians and more philosophy i can get back to you with something more concrete and less flimsy as I just did.
     
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  9. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    anon ji

    Then, take your time. I would however add this note. The sakhis are for the most part not credible sources of information. Again, here at SPN we have covered the topic. There are for example an entire series of sakhis that were written by individuals who from the time of Guru Nanak and for sometime thereafter motivated to restore strong ties to brahminical beliefs as quickly as he tried to undo them. The story of raising a dead cow is a case in point.

    The sakhis should be heeded only when they correlate with a) what is told in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji; b) what Bhai Gurdas relates in his Vaaran. You will find that the more credible historians themselves evaluate the sakhis using these guidelines. Hence, an historian like Cunningham does not use sakhis as his source material, and may even comment on their unreliability.

    Two groups in the 15th through the 19th Centuries, Minas and Mahants, labored for centuries to dilute Guru Nanak's message. Sanatan sects persisted and still persist in telling the story of a 'magical god' and hs 'magical gurus.' Later the efforts of Sant Samaj chimed in as well. Because these influences are deeply embedded within India, it has been difficult to weaken its cultural impact on beliefs of Sikhs - the majority living in India or those taking beliefs to the diaspora. Amidst all of this the central importance of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji gets lost.
     
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    #8 spnadmin, Jan 20, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  10. Sherdil

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    A) Sikhs don't contemplate God to please God. We do it to remember what is important in life. Sikhism says that we are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things, therefore I don't think it makes any difference to God if we believe in him or not. Believing in him won't make him any greater than he already is.
     
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  11. Sherdil

    Sherdil
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    B) Sikhism says that God has made the universe and destroyed it countless times. It is his drama. Sikhs don't believe in the stories found in the texts of other religions. You will have to ask them why they think God punished those people.

    Sikhs do believe that good and bad are both caused by God. We see things as good and bad as long as we live in duality.
     
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  12. Sherdil

    Sherdil
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    ਨਾ ਹਮ ਚੰਗੇ ਆਖੀਅਹ ਬੁਰਾ ਨ ਦਿਸੈ ਕੋਇ ॥: Naa ham change aakheeah buraa n disai koi: I am not called good, and I see none who are bad (sggs 1015).
    ਬੁਰਾ ਭਲਾ ਤਿਚਰੁ ਆਖਦਾ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਹੈ ਦੁਹੁ ਮਾਹਿ ॥: Buraa bhalaa ticharu aakhadaa jicharu hai duhu maahi: One calls others bad and good, as long as he himself is in the control of duality (sggs 757).
     
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  13. Sherdil

    Sherdil
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    C) Sikhism doesn't teach you to be holier than thou. If you come across such people, see it as a fault within them, not with the religion.

    Keeping your hair does nothing for the next man, but it is the natural human form. We believe that hair grows back because it was meant to be there.
     
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  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    I think that is perfect.
     
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  15. Sherdil

    Sherdil
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    D) Sikhism teaches that you reap what you sow. It also teaches that by God's grace, some find the path while others continue to wander.

    Your heaven and hell are experienced while you are alive
     
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  16. Ishna

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    Dear Sherdil ji

    Thanks for your contributions so far and welcome to SPN. It's great to have you with us :peacesignkaur: :welcomekaur:

    I can see you're new to the forum, so I'll just let you know about posting Gurbani here at SPN, per the Terms of Service. You need to post the ang number (which you have done, thank you) as well as the full shabad. Posting of single tuks is highly discouraged in recognition of the fact that for better understanding the tuks must be considered in context of their shabads.

    Many thanks. :)
     
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  17. Sherdil

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    Thank you for the warm welcome and heads up ::cool:

    I will keep this in mind for future posts.

    All the best ::cool:
     
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  18. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    Your honesty is admirable. :)

    I too have not yet READ much Gurbani and what I have, has to still be in English which means it may well have some of a "lost in translation" element to it.

    But I have had some decent people telling me what Sikhi is all about and I am enjoying learning about it along the way. :)
     
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  19. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    Of course it was "meant to be there". So are fingernails. ;-) If I were to live my life in the most pure natural form, I would be living in a nudist colony with no clothing. Personally...I guess I will never call myself truely Sikh as I doubt I'd ever stop cutting my hair. It's not short...it's really quite long. But I do trim the ends to get rid of split ends regularly. In the end like most other things I assume if there is a loving god s/he will care not if I shave my hair or not, they will care much more about me going and volunteering in various places and helping people out...
     
  20. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    ;-) I read this and re-read it and went..."is this greek?" ;-)

    Actually I know it's not but while I was brought up at least *understanding* what verses are in bibles and the difference between psalms and proverbs (even if my family was NOT religious and we rarely attended church) I don't know what shabads vs tuks vs ang numbers are... :-(

    *sigh*
     
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  21. aristotle

    aristotle
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    Shabad= A poetic composition of Guru Granth Sahib, usually the entire verse

    Tuk= A single or half sentence plucked out from the Shabad

    Ang number= Page number of Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, respectfully called an Ang, the Punjabi equivalent for organ/body-part
     
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