Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Islam Muslim-Sikh Unmarried Relationship in the UK

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Scribe, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. Scribe

    Scribe
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello there,

    I'm in the process of writing a work of fiction (as part of my degree) set in the UK, involving a young Muslim woman and a young Sikh man who fall in love and embark upon a relationship. The young woman becomes pregnant and the story is set over the course of her pregnancy, following her life as she tries to work out where she stands in respect to her culture, the culture of her baby's father, the society around her, and herself.

    I am neither Sikh nor Muslim, but I grew up in a UK city with plenty of Sikh and Muslim friends. I wondering about not only the issues surrounding an interfaith relationship, but also the more common difficulties young Asian Brits experience in feeling as if they straddle two cultures which are often in opposition to one another - the culture of their religion and the culture of the country in which they have grown up. I have spent a long time researching on the internet and have not found much positivity regarding successful interfaith relationships.

    Could there conceivably be a situation in which a relationship between a Muslim girl and a Sikh boy, where the girl has become pregnant whilst unmarried, is eventually accepted by everyone involved, including their families?

    I would really hope it is possible for a young couple such as this to find acceptance. I have seen so much suspicion and hostility and misunderstandings between people in what was previously a pretty harmoniously multicultural city, and I want to be able to visualise a situation where there is, for a few individuals, love and respect and, eventually, understanding and compromise.

    As well as direct responses to the plausibility of my idea, I would welcome any information or thoughts about interfaith relationships in general! Cheers in advance.
     
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Sikh News World Muslim-Sikh Federation launches campaign to ban RSS in UK (ANI via Yahoo! India Breaking News Aug 8, 2007
    Pacific Chinese city plans to fine unmarried mothers Breaking News Jun 3, 2013
    Politics Unmarried Indian politicians Breaking News May 2, 2009

  3. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Dear scribe

    welcome to spn

    First of all let tell you that in islam a muslim woman is not allowed to have a any relationship with non muslim man.anyway here the situation is very difficuilt.It is nearly impossible for a muslim family to accept a sikh son in law.Muslim society will never accept it.If they are religious they could go to any length to protect family's honour as situation is much shameful for girl's side.

    On the other hand From sikhism point of view an amritdhari or those who beleive in maryada always marry with in religion so it depends how much practising or orthodox is boy's famliy.

    Now there are 2 possible solution

    1) girl leave her family and marry that sikh man

    2)girl should abort the child and forget about relationship

    BTW if Both the families are non practising and modern then I think there would be no problem at all
     
  4. Scribe

    Scribe
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi KDS, thanks for your welcome and your reply!

    Am I right in thinking that for a muslim man having a relationship with a non-mulsim woman the rules might be slightly different? Is it usually the woman who is expected to convert in any such relationship, e.g. if the woman was Sikh and the man was Muslim?

    For the girl to marry the Sikh, would she have to convert to Sikhism in order to be accepted by his family, or would this also depend upon how orthodox the Sikh family might be?

    I am particularly interested by the idea of it not being a problem if the families are non-practising and modern. A modern, non-practising Muslim mother I know thought that it would still be a huge problem if it were their daughter in such a situation - not necessarily because of their individual views, but because of how the extended family and the wider community might view the union as shameful. Does this seem accurate? Or do you think it would be more negotiable than the way she paints it?

    Cheers :)
     
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    According to shariat law of muslims a muslim man is only allowed to marry jewish and christiin women apart from muslim one.The othe have to convert to islam to marry a muslim man.

    As far as sikhism is concerned.You are right it depends on how orthodox is family but still it would be difficuilt for a muslim woman to adjust in sikh family because there are chances that some relatives could take it in negative way and make this an issue.

    As far muslim society is concerned there is no chance of muslim society accepting a muslim girl with sikh man.So she is going to be disowned by society even if her parents accepts her
     
  6. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
    Expand Collapse
    (previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    145
    Scribe ji


    the labels of a unique "muslim" society or a unique "sikh" society are a misnomer

    Within each religion there are plethora of examples of "deviant" behaviour.

    Hence it is tough to go by the assumption that the muslim girl will be disowned in sikh family, or a sikh son in law will be treated with hostility by relatives of a muslim girl.

    i have come across examples of deviant behaviour as well as the main stream behaviour as described by KDS ji

    why don't you introspect into the character you have built and see how it sees the world outside, maybe that would help.

    with my limited understaning, paining a character on the "mainstream" thoughts or a popular "deviant" thought might lead to people finding the character too stereotypical.

    each person is a unique identity and responds to situations differently. However those affected by thers ( read your character of girl/boy) would be best eyes to look and build the secondary players.
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Dear amar

    Could you please tell me in which world you liberals live.There are possibilities either you read too much theory or you don't even have any idea how practical
    world operates,or you people just don't want to accept truth.

    Let me give you an example my cousin sister married a hindu her parents had no objection.But since the day of her she never met us or any extended family.The reason is simple her parents know that if she come's to family functions or even or deaths she will immediately become issue of gossip.So solution is simple don't take her anywhere just make some excuses.Though Hindu sikh marriage's are very common.

    Could any person will even beleive in his dream that muslim society gladly accept sikh son in law even though there are possibilties that muslim girl is accepted by sikh family if the family is liberal or they will put pressure on her to convert.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
  9. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
    Expand Collapse
    (previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    145
    <<Could you please tell me in which world you liberals live.There are possibilities either you read too much theory or you don't even have any idea how practical
    world operates,or you people just don't want to accept truth.

    Let me give you an example my cousin sister married a hindu her parents had no objection.But since the day of her she never met us or any extended family.The reason is simple her parents know that if she come's to family functions or even or deaths she will immediately become issue of gossip.So solution is simple don't take her anywhere just make some excuses.Though Hindu sikh marriage's are very common.

    Could any person will even beleive in his dream that muslim society gladly accept sikh son in law even though there are possibilties that muslim girl is accepted by sikh family if the family is liberal or they will put pressure on her to convert.>>>

    KDS ji

    even i am surprised that in which world do YOU live. I think you have no right to judge if i read theory or not. You are basing your views on your experiences and i base those on mine. Mine just happen to be completely different from yours.

    I said that i HVE seen enough DEVIANT behaviour from what you have mentioned.

    Yes, i am a liberal and i do believe that religion is a personal matter. I know people of different religion(seriously religious, not just namesake), who are married and have an extremely happy married life, they were not only accepted by their family but also by extended family. As far as aacceptance of complete strangers goes, who gives their opinions two hoots!! They have allowed their children to choose ANY religion, and yes one of the children actually became a Sikh though both parents are NOT Sikh.

    so open your eyes and accept that not all people have same experiences.


    i have dozens of friends who are married to people of different religion. All have been accepted by other familiies, and yes, a couple of them are Sikh boys( one is turbaned if you may like to know the details), one with a christian wife and another with a muslim wife. He has a hearty time at his in laws place. and yes, she is still a practising muslim !!!

    coming back to the original motive of the thread...

    What scribe was asking was not blinkered laws and theories of sikh-muslim marriage= disaster

    if this was true, where else would be the imagination of an author?

    would someone have written poems of fields of daffofils and lazy floating clouds?

    i replied to Scribe to spur on his imagination as he is a writer and not a judge sitting on pedestal pronouncing judgements
     
  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Dear amarji

    My opinions are not based on my experiances.I live in ground level midddle class world of India to whom this forum world do not belong.I am not saying there are no liberals
    but majority of liberals are highly educated and belongs to good financial back ground
    and they are in minority

    Its a fact that it is nearly impossible for majority of muslim society to accept sikh son in law.though there are some tiny minority that could.

    Now coming to point libelaralism Just check any matrimonial column of Indian newspaper and you understand what I am saying Majority of matrimonial ads are under caste bracket.Is it not proof that forget about religion majority of Indians
    still wants to marry with in caste.Now where is liberalism ?Does it mean that there are no indians who don't want to marry other caste of course not there is column where people say caste no bar but they are in minority.

    If scribe is real writer then he will make his story based on opinions of majority of society
     
  11. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
    Expand Collapse
    (previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    145
    KDS ji

    i have a single statistic for you...

    over 16% of marriages in india are now not arranged marriages ( including online match making)

    i will try to find the source, but i think it was a magazine, frontline or another...but seemed a reliable source to me.

    16% is not a minority.

    Also i agree that most of people going through arranged route look for caste....but it is changing fast.

    also from Scribe's perspective, i just wanted to give him more optimistic viewpoint of life...

    my glasses !!
     
  12. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Dear Amar

    Once you told me that you take surveys with a pinch of salt now what happenened?
    Anyway This is just a survey you can check Hindustan times delhi edition matrimonial column or times of India's and then tell me how many ads are under caste bracket
    and how many under others..Most of the best persons available for marriage are under caste bracket while mostly divorce's or with some problem do write caste no bar.

    If scribe want's to write story with truth then he/she has to accept about majority not exceptions.
     
  13. Sinister

    Sinister
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    394
    Salutations to Scribe

    I don’t really care what you write about (beginning or ending)…. But just make sure the wedding is extravagant and not some stupid eloping story (I like lots of tension, lots of description...minor details that people in muslim and sikh communities can relate to). Add a food fight in the wedding scene...make the Sikh family vegetarian and just crack jokes about alcohol and Muslims.

    Also make the characters posh and wealthy…because... who really wants to read about two middle class half-wits tying the knot…this will help create tension because rich people love to keep up appearances (so ive heard :shifty:).

    Anyways…add comedy along with strong character development and it’s a guaranteed success; add too much romance/somber moods/struggle and your story will be flop.

    This is a very clumsy plot and its been done many times before (except the illegitimate child), it will be very difficult to come up with something overtly different...unless you downplay the romance:

    So,
    Let your imagination soar….hehe
    not to high though...keep it toned so that the plot and character dialogue stays believable

    im sure your a pro...good luck
     
  14. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
    Expand Collapse
    (previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    145
    kds ji

    i told u before in my posts that people who want to marry outside caste( don't give a damn about it) DONOT advertise in papers...

    they just find their partner themselves... :)

    <<Most of the best persons available for marriage are under caste bracket while mostly divorce's or with some problem do write caste no bar.>>

    what do you mean by "best" :)

    anyways Scribe is writing about UK based characters and you were giving a very myopic local india specific view, i just tried to provide alternate view

    we both might be correct :)
     
  15. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Amar ji its a fact that majority of marriages in India are arranged and Btw majority who want's to marry with in caste also do not take newspaper route.They too arrange it through relative's friends etc so your point that only who want's to marry within caste only take route of ads is not true

    OMG Do I need to tell you meaning of best marriage partner in Indian terms.
    Anyway best mean a boy with decent family and great career earning good money
    while for girl it means a beautiful girl with good family and character.This is all parents look for their children.

    Once I read that if america really want's to destroy islamic terrorism then first capital should not be kabul but london as there is tremendous growth of islamic fundamentalism.

    Anyway if U.K is such liberal then what about news of sikh muslim tension their.
    Plenty of spn members themselves wrote about their own experiance of facing muslim fundamentalism.Sikh girls converting to islam and marrying muslims is standard subject on sikh sites.The only news of sikh muslim tension come's from
    U.K. and not any other country.so he/she is writing story of a country where sikh muslim tension is highest
     
  16. sabeeka

    sabeeka
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    hey dis is to he guy whos writing about the muslim girl and boy well starting of it sounds so interesting umm but on the family side off things it neva guna wrk unless one or both families are understnding which usually isnt the case. my story is the opposite i was a sikh im female andmy husband is muslim im a convert of 7 years and not regretted a second im not here to spread h8 im jus helpin the guy out in my case i havent had any contact with my family over a 7 year period n my husbands family r happy im takin it because i am a muslim it doesnt always work out you can neva well i think neway have 2 religons live under the same roof n im not sayin giv 1 up, leave that person then, u no wat i mean i changed my faith becoz i wanted 2 no mater if i shout it 4rm the roof tops no one will eva believe me its jus da way ppl r. muslim familiyes will neva accept a sikh man unless he converts n not only by converting he needs 2 change everthin about him the way he dresses givin up alchol if he drinksits relli hard. however a sikh family may accept im not sure the muslim girl maybe becoz hes the son n all which is unfair if you reversed the situation what would it be?
     
  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Sabeeka I am really sorry to say that you are typical submissive women.You sold your religion You did not care about the hell your family went and are going through.Why?
    Just because you love a muslim guy
     
  18. svea00

    svea00
    Expand Collapse
    SPN Sewadaar
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don´t know if it is of any interest as I have only limited information.
    Some time ago I was told that at the Gurdwara I use to go a sikh girl married a muslim boy, they even did it in anand karaj. He was also attending the service sometimes. I don´t know if he converted (if you mean by that taking amrit, he obviously didn´t) and I don´t know anything about how serious he is or what his parents think of it. The girl didn´t convert either to islam.
    Anyway, all the best for them.
     
  19. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Dear Svea

    Since I started surfing net This issue come's over and over again sometime's girl convert ,sometime's not if boy is non religious or non practicing.Also they have anand karaj it means that boy is muslim just by name.but I also heard that sometime's boy or his family put pressure on girl to convert to islam.

    Anyway muslims all over the world are ready to accept non muslim wives but still majority of muslim society do noy accept muslim girl' marrying non muslim

    Today I just read that in Iraq a muslim girl was killed beacuse she fell in love with british soldier.
     
  20. Parma

    Parma United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    262
    As far as I am aware it is not apparent for a non sikh to convert to sikhism to get married or to live life together. But in other religions such as islam it is required that the other individual must convert for it to be accepted by there society. The problem of this story really lies in which religion should the child follow if both partners have strong beliefs in there own faiths.
     
  21. pk70

    pk70
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,582
    Likes Received:
    627
    parma ji
    Leave the child to God and relax. caravan goes on.....

     

Share This Page