Islam Moving Mountains

[Ishna]

Nizari Ismaili Shi'ites

Apart from the wiki page, do either of you know any good resources about this sect?

Many thanks in advance!

Edit: It's all good, I found a good and thorough introduction.

 

[Luckysingh]

We don't have that many muslims here compared to back in UK, but the majority of them are ismailis and they seem to originate from Gujarat.
I don't know too much about them, but they do tend to stay away from mainstream muslims.

 

[Archived_member15]

Apart from the wiki page, do either of you know any good resources about this sect?

Many thanks in advance!

Edit: It's all good, I found a good and thorough introduction.

There are a load of good introductions to be found online. However this wiki article is great to start out since it explains this important facet of Nizari doctrine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imamah_(Nizari_Ismaili_doctrine)

Key excerpt:

The Nizari Ismaili Imam’s role in the human world is to be the perfect human being (al insaan al kamil) in spite of facing tremendous physical odds. By demonstrating his exemplariness in the face of hardship, the true Imam guides humankind in general and in particular he guides his own flock of steadfast believers who believe in him as a divine being and the repository of the original and authentic Quran. Thus, the Nizari Ismaili Imam is the Speaking Quran of the Nizari Ismailis and has the authority and the knowledge to interpret it according to changing times. According to Shams Tabrizi, The meaning of the Book of God is not the text (of the Quran), it is the man who guides. He is the Book of God. He is its verses. He is scripture.[4] Shams Tabrizi was the beloved mentor of the great Sufi poet Rumi and his work was collected by Rumi as the Diwani Shamsi Tabrīz (Poems of Shams of Tabriz). A large number of his hymns-poems comprise the devotional literature of the Nizari Ismailis of Badakhshan. The changing interpretations of the Quran by the Nizari Ismaili Imams to adapt to changing times creates tension between the Nizari Ismaili Imams and the Orthodox Ulema (Islamic scholars). The two most recent Nizari Ismaili Imams titled Aga Khan III and Aga Khan IV have replaced the obligation to perform the daily prayers from five times a day to three times a day by following the Quranic injunction rather than following the Prophet's custom (hadith and sunnah), in order to ease the religious pressures on the Muslim in the modern world. Similarly, they have replaced the month long fast (during the month of Ramadhan) with fasting during a few certain days of the year. They have dispensed with the veil for women and replaced it with dressing according to common decency in the country of one's residence. They have dispensed with the obligation to keep a long beard meant to demonstrate one's identity as a Muslim. Specifically, the Aga Khan IV has emphasized the ethics of pluralism, the cosmopolitan ethic of frontierless brotherhood and sisterhood, the forbearance from killing to settle disputes, governance by constitution and law, and the importance of keeping to the Islamic ethics practiced by the Prophet of Islam.

Its by far in my opinion the best form of Islam (excepting Sufism which is not really a denomination at all since most Sufis were simply mystically-minded orthodox Sunnis at times with some having heterodox opinions but others like Al-Ghazzali the philosopher being wholly within Sunni orthodoxy albeit from a mystical perspective!). I embrace them wholeheartedly as exemplars for other Muslims.

It is heartening to know that such Muslims exist in today's world and - while they are viewed as heretics by Sunni and Twelver Shi'a - there are the biggest group among the Ismaili with some 15-20 million of them. True this does pale when compared with the wider 1 billion or so Muslims which is largely comprised of orthodox Sunni but well at least they are out there....

In fact there was something of a colaescing between the two independent esoteric traditions of Ismaili Shi'ism and Sufism (typically Sunni) in Persia during the Alamut period and later in the thirteenth century. Basically Ismaili was to Shi'ism what Sufism typically was to Sunnism but these two separate mystical traditions influenced each other in Persia.

Ismailis disguised themselves as members of Sufi orders to escape persecution from Sunnis (who considered them to be heretics) and adopted Sufi terminology. Likewise Sufis became infused with Ismaili ideas.

What one then got was a flourishing of a new kind of synthesis between Ismaili and Shi'ism which produced such works as Gulistan-i-Raz (The Rose Garden of Mystery) by Muhammad Shabistari (1339-40).

This was the first translated and most popular Sufi text in the English language, first rendered into English by François Bernier when explaining Sufism to his European friends in 1668, and it is heavily indebted not only to Sufi ideas but to Ismaili doctrine - such that Ismailis in Southeast Asia claim it as part of their own literature. The Ismaili element in the text, stemming from that syncretic matrix of interaction between these two esoteric traditions of Islam in Persia, is largely unknown except to scholars.

It is even the case that Shams-i-Tabrizi, the mentor of Jalaluddin Rumi, seems to have been influenced by Ismaili ideas (or at least Ismaili ideas have been attributed to him) which in turn may have shaped Rumi's thought.

Sorry I went on a bit of a ramble there lol

 

[namjiwankaur]

Sat Nam _/|\_

Vouthon ji

I agree with you, sister Namji, but the problem is that only one sect of Islam has ever understood the Qur'an and Shari'ah Law in the way in which you describe: the Nizari Ismaili Shi'ites.

They have renounced traditional Islamic jihad against unbelievers,
[/I].

Granted the Nizari's are very liberal, but there are other liberals within Islam.

Sufis have often been peacemakers and proponents of interfaith harmony. Sufism is considered heretic by conservative Muslims (IE- Naben ji has rejected me as an ignorant because I'm Sufi on this forum). Many of the Sufi teachings are as compassionate and non-violent. IE-Check out Shams, Rumi, Shirdi Sai Baba, Bawa Muhaiyaddeen (considered by many Sufis to be the Qutb). Check out Amadou Bamba's teachings. There are also the Ahmadiyya & Quranists. Also the Perenneialists such as Frithjof Schuon, Henri Corbin, etc..

and even do not enforce hijab upon men or women ie the headscarf for women. This is because they believe that Islam's teachings can be "updated" to meet the needs of different time periods, through the mystical mediation of the Imam who interprets Islamic law for the modern age in which he lives. Islam in essence thus never changes buts its application and understanding of itself does. And so the Agha Khan has used his spiritual authority to re-interpret for his Muslims the Islamic faith in light of modernity.

Actually, Imam Aga Khan doesn't allow women to wear the hijab. And to me, it is no different when a women is forced to wear or forced not to wear something. Both deny women the right to dress as they want.

It would be like someone forbidding a Sikh woman from wearing the turban or forcing her to wear one.

In the 1950s and 60s, most women in Egypt didn't wear the veil. I know there were times in Iran in the 20th century when police would tear off women's veils (it was illegal to wear one). Turkish gov't. has forbidden females from wearing it to school. Queen Rania of Jordan doesn't wear one, but I believe that is her choice. Jordan doesn't enforce or ban it.

I am old enough to remember a time when hats were a big thing in the Christian church. I loved Mad Hatter because of that. I'm thinking of African American women who wore some really trippy hats to church (and even when Prince William got married there were some really fabulous hats there).

Catholicism teaches much the same in a Christian context but NO OTHER Christian Church does

I grew up in the UCC which is very liberal. The UCC led the way regarding female clergy, gay clergy, blessed unions for the lgbt community.

Many of my friends in the 1980s were having pre-marital sex and going to the pre-marriage meetings with their priests. Many Catholics now support gay marriage and birth control. The pope needs to recognize that he no longer is representing the Catholic majority.

Your view is orthodox Nizari teaching but would be heretical to practically all schools of Sunni and Twelver Shi'a which believe the Qur'an is God's Word in the actual arabic in which it was delivered.

I actually agree that Arabic is a mystical language since I believe that the Semitic languages (Aramaic, Arabic, Hebrew, Coptic, etc.) are powerfully mystical because these languages allow for depth of meaning. Part of it is because of the way vowels are omitted. I also believe no book (any book, not just Holy Books) ca be translated from the original language into another, only interpreted. Inevitably changing a book's language will involve choices of the translator/interpreter. I always try to study what I can about a religion in the language it was originally revealed in.

heretic for their use of reason in interpreting the Qur'an. The Mu'tazili taught that while the Qur'an expresses God's eternal will, he created the Qur'an itself at some point in time whereas most of the 'orthodox' schools taught that the Qur'an was uncreated and eternal in the time-bound form in which it was delivered to Muhammad and practiced by him through the Hadith.

There were many times in the first several centuries of Islam where Muslims embraced philosophy & engaged in respectful inclusive discussion with Jewish, Hermetic and Christian believers. It was not just the Mu'tazali.

Let's also remember that Judaism and Christianity have played this game also. I left Christianity because I was tired of hypocrisy. And I didn't believe the Bible was God's Literal Word. I believe the Quran I read in English (since I'm not fluent in Arabic) and the Guru Granth Sahib I read in English) since I'm not fluent with Gurmukhi/Punjabi - deprive me of the original meaning.

There can be no such thing as "static" sharia. Remember sharia didn't exist until a hundred years after Muhammad. Sharia was created to deal with all the issues that came along as the world went forward in time. It dealt with things that didn't exist in the time of Muhammad. You'll find there is a wide variety when it comes to the madhabs (schools of jurisprudence). And more and more people are promoting itjihad. Just as there was a time when only the clergy could read the Bible (IE-when it was written in Latin, a language the (illiterate) commoners didn't know), the Quran is now available to anyone who can read. It doesn't take an Islamic "scholar" (just who is and isn't a scholar is often debated within Islam) to figure things out. Itjihad is a gift in these times no matter how much the orthodox try to hang on to their positions of control.

To be fair, the Orthodox of all religions (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and even Sikh) tend to believe their Holy Book is time bound, only true in its original language and only one interpretation is valid for all time. You will still see this happening in evangelical Christian communities.

The vast majority of the Islamic world simply does not share your enlightened understanding of Islam.

God Bless the Nizaris for holding the fort but they are not enough. A sea change would have to occur within most of Islam.

Have you been following the rebellion against conservative governments throughout the Muslim world (Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia)? We are truly in a new spring (I use this word to refer to a season of rebirth and also a leap into the future). There is a lot of change taking place within the ummah.

Do you know that there is a great bit of progress made in the gay Muslim community in the past few years. The old Islam is outdating itself as cultures approach it from different perspectives.

When I first came to Sufism (I practice it not so much as a Muslim, but from the position of a Universal Sufi), the internet perspective on Sufism was overall Salafi. And to keep the rest of the ummah quiet, the Salafi/Wahabi groups would just make threats when someone expressed a more open minded opinion.

I remember the first time I said nothing in Quran forbids us from referring to God with the Sacred Feminine Pronoun. Someone said, "you should have your face slapped for even suggesting that". Why is that so offensive to those types? They are protecting their patriarchy, their misogyny, their tyrannical oppression which seeks to suppress freedom of thought and religion.

Even now, I risk that threat, but now their is a loud and proud liberal Muslim presence on the web.

Nam Jiwan

 

[Ishna]

Thanks for all that insight, Namji. gingerteakaur

I was thinking as I read, the theme of the thread isn't that far from the thread title, moving mountains. We're just taking about moving socio-religious mountains, progressively.

I had no idea there was room for real growth within the framework of Islam. Reading about the Isma'ili group is very interesting. I'd read about the Ahmaddiya but they're small in comparison. So, there is hope.

 

[naben]

Respected member

Good discussion

This simple
Does not require much thinking
Mountains move with the movement of the earth


‫الجبال تتحرك الجزء الاول 1‬‎ - YouTube


‫الجبال تتحرك الجزء الثاني 2‬‎ - YouTube


‫الجبال تتحرك الجزء الثالث 3‬‎ - YouTube

----

God spoke to the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him
Heavenly journey
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
he saw the God Almighty
But light - the light
No one can see God in this world
God says in the Holy Qur'an

(1) By the star when it descends
(2) Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred
(3) Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination
(4) It is not but a revelation revealed
(5) Taught to him by one intense in strength (6) One of soundness. And he rose to [his] true for
(7) While he was in the higher [part of the] horizon
(8) Then he approached and descende
(9) And was at a distance of two bow lengths or nearer
(10) And he revealed to His Servant what he revealed
(11) The heart did not lie [about] what it saw
(12) So will you dispute with him over what he saw
(13) And he certainly saw him in another descen
(14) At the Lote Tree of the Utmost Boundary
(15) Near it is the Garden of Refuge
(16) When there covered the Lote Tree that which covered [it]
(17) The sight [of the Prophet] did not swerve, nor did it transgress [its limit]
(18) He certainly saw of the greatest signs of his Lord

2=Prophet Moses, peace be upon him
also wanted to see God

(143) And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You." [ Allah ] said, "You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."

-----

‫أحمد ديدات ÙŠÙضح القساوسة والمنصرين وعجز الكتاب المقدس من ثمارهم تعرÙونهم‬‎ - YouTube
[/FONT]
----
Your all wrong
Why called a miracle a miracle?
Jibril came to the Messenger peace be upon him revelation to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
To tell him the message of Islam, God
And news about the past, present and future
In order to denote the truth of prophecy and the message
This has already happened
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him told stories of Muslims from all the prophets all details
Although not born at that time
So God says about it

(44) And you, [O Muhammad], were not on the western side [of the mount] when We revealed to Moses the command, and you were not among the witnesses [to that]
(45) But We produced [many] generations [after Moses], and prolonged was their duration. And you were not a resident among the people of Madyan, reciting to them Our verses, but We were senders [of this message]
(46) And you were not at the side of the mount when We called [Moses] but [were sent] as a mercy from your Lord to warn a people to whom no warner had come before you that they might be reminded
(47) And if not that a disaster should strike them for what their hands put forth [of sins] and they would say, "Our Lord, why did You not send us a messenger so we could have followed Your verses and been among the believers?"..


(44) That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed.

(49) That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. You knew it not, neither you nor your people, before this. So be patient; indeed, the [best] outcome is for the righteous .



‫أحمد ديدات - الÙارق بين الكتاب المقدس Ùˆ القرأن‬‎ - YouTube


"The Sufis did not only go out on the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah peace and blessings be upon him,

Indeed beliefs collide mainly with the essence of Islam ..

The Sufis say pantheistic,

They believe that the presence of one fact no difference in their eyes between the right and the creation,

He said anti-Islam and its tenets. "

(Why do you call God and get off Needs to people like (dead in graves ) , but those most in need of you in their graves to the mercy of God??

The Almighty Allah in the Holy Qur'an says ::

(60. And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islamic Monotheism)] (and ask Me for anything) I will respond to your (invocation). Verily! Those who scorn My worship [i.e. do not invoke Me, and do not believe in My Oneness, (Islamic Monotheism)] they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!") Ghafir / 60

Why should you spend worship to dead in graves and asked them relief ..




‫معجزات القرءان الكريم - عيضه‬‎ - YouTube


Value given to girls

In some societies boys have been treated as superior to girls since time immemorial. However, this attitude dominated Arabic society during the Age of Ignorance in a more violent way. So much so that this ugly attitude took the form of burying small girls alive in the sand and, increasingly spreading, it began to be seen as legitimate. In line with the verses in the Holy Quran, the Prophet firmly forbade discrimination between boys and girls which was current in the society he was sent to and tried to eliminate the "seeing boys as superior" tradition that had developed among people on this subject. In a short time, as a continuation of ignorance, the idea of ​​"looking down on girls" or "burying them in the sand" was replaced by the understanding that regardless of whether the child was a boy or girl, it would be seen as "a favor and gift from Allah" (Hakim, al-Mustadrak, II, 284). Here the behavior of the Prophet towards his own girls and hadiths in the form of recommendation and command played an important role.

In many hadiths related to this subject, the Prophet made statements with this common meaning: "Whoever has three (or two or one) girls or sisters and treats them well and does not prefer male children over them and educates them in the best manner, Allah will make them a shield against hell and will put them in heaven "(Ibn Mace," Adab "3; Tirmizi," Birr "13; Abu Davud," Adab "130).

This event gives the good news that parents will be rewarded for their compassion and mercy to their daughters:

Aisha narrates: "A woman came to me. She had two girls with her. She wanted something. However, I did not have anything except one date. I gave it to her. The woman divided it into two pieces and shared it between her daughters; nothing was left for her. They left. Later the Prophet came. When I told him about this situation, he said, "Whoever befriends and treats their daughters well like this, the girls will be a shield for them against the fire" (Buhari, "Zakat" 10).



‫أحمد ديدات - القرآن الكريم , المعجزة المرئيّة - مترجم‬‎ - YouTube

 

[aristotle]

This simple
Does not require much thinking
Mountains move with the movement of the earth

The Pythagoreans said that around 350 BC, much before Muhammad..

Jibril came to the Messenger peace be upon him revelation to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
To tell him the message of Islam, God
And news about the past, present and future
In order to denote the truth of prophecy and the message

What was Muhammad's contribution then? It seems more of a dictation sort of a thing. Gabriel dictated, Muhammad told his scribes, they wrote it down...

Value given to girls

Would you like to read these too??...
*"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34
*"A male shall inherit twice as much as a female." Quran 4:11
*"[Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves." Quran 4:24

 

[namjiwankaur]

Sat Nam _/|\_

Aristotle ji

The Pythagoreans said that around 350 BC, much before Muhammad..

Would you know of any good books or websites where I could study their teaching? I read a little bit about them in a course I took on world religions. I would like to learn more. I remember being fascinated by them.

What was Muhammad's contribution then? It seems more of a dictation sort of a thing. Gabriel dictated, Muhammad told his scribes, they wrote it down...

The way I see it, the world religions tend to bring a certain "way" to people. In Judaism, it was the way of law. In Christianity, the way of love. In Islam, the way of surrender. In paganism, the way of nature.

I don't know Buddhism, Hinduism or Sikhism well enough to speak of the "way they revealed". Sikhism is the way of naam for me at this point, but others might have other opinions (as I 'm sure others would have different opinions about the ways). Buddhism seems to me, from what I know, the way of awakening.

Muhammad, pbuh, by example, taught Muslims to prostrate to God, not just literally, but with their entire being. He made a community which was based on surrender to God. He taught that all beings are alive and worshiping God in their own way. Not just should we be good to other human beings as Jesus said. We should protect animals. We should even protect trees and see God's miracles in them.

Would you like to read these too??...
*"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34

I recently discussed this with Ishna ji and Vouthon ji. I'm still interested in Naben ji's response to this because he has a much more literal and conservative outlook on things.

I highly recommend this video where Laleh Bakhtiar describes some of the poorly "translated" (Holy Books like Quran can never be translated into another language, only interpreted). She discusses 4:34 and how the word for beat (DaRaBa) has many meanings. The same way the English word beat could mean many things (beat someone up, birds beating their wings, a beating heart).

At around 4:44 minutes into the video, sister Laleh Bakhtiar discusses 4:34. Until about 40 years ago, patriarchy was so deeply entrenched in our societies (globally) that men just assumed they could beat their wives. Translators of various older interpretations never questioned each other on "beat" because men around the world beat their wives without question.

So 4:34 was a vast improvement considering pre-islamic tribes beat and killed their wives without an iota of guilt. Baby girls were buried alive.


So 4:34 brings a "count to ten" strategy to the Muslim men who were now being commanded to be kind to their wives and to recognize that God considered men and women equal.

And most of those who translate DaRaBa as beat will also say in commentary that it would be with a "miswak" or some other object which would ensure the woman was not harmed.

In Quran you will also find verses on gender equality and equality of spouses.

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect. (Quran 30:21)

Skip ahead to 4:36 and you will find: Worship God [Alone] and do not associate anything with Him. Show kindness to both [your] parents and with near relatives, orphans, the needy, the neighbor who is related [to you] as well as the neighbor who is a stranger, and your companion by your side and the wayfarer, and anyone else under your control. God does not love someone who is conceited, boastful, (Quran 4:36)

Why would 4:34 be about abusing your wife when 2 verses later the Quran commands people to be kind to everyone they meet.

Quran does this a lot. It challenges people to look at things and contemplate (it is often said in Quran that there are "signs for the people who contemplate as it did at the end of the verse 30:21 above)


*"A male shall inherit twice as much as a female." Quran 4:11
*"[Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves." Quran 4:24[/QUOTE]

My friend, go back in history all around the world. Look at the Europe & US in the 1800s & 1900s, for example, and you will find even more inequality when it comes to women and men.

In Muhammad's time, Gloria Steinhem would have gave Muhammad a standing ovation. This was way ahead of its time. The problem is some (I suspect not the majority these days) Muslims say in one breath that what Quran commanded in Muhammad's time is what shall forever be....yet they will say sharia is necessary to interpret things according to today's world. I am certain in my heart, that Quran's message must continue to flow with the times. It must remain dynamic to be relevant to these times. The only way a religion survives is to speak to each generation of people.

I hope this has clarified something for you. I suspect Naben ji will write off what I say since I (and Laleh Bakhtiar) are Sufis (and he considers Sufis heretics). To that I can only say to him: "To you be your Way, and to me mine." (Quran 109:6)


Nam Jiwan

 

[naben]

This monotheistic religions Science

-Starting from Adam to Muhammad peace be upon him
One Message
The Oneness of Allah

Through the prophets, not of other ways

All the prophets Muslim

111. And when I (Allah) put in the hearts of Al-Hawarieen (the disciples) [of 'Iesa (Jesus)] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims."
Surah Al-Ma'idah


78. And strive hard in Allah's Cause as you ought to strive (with sincerity and with all your efforts that His Name should be superior). He has chosen you (to convey His Message of Islamic Monotheism to mankind by inviting them to His religion, Islam), and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship, it is the religion of your father Ibrahim (Abraham) (Islamic Monotheism) . It is He (Allah) Who has named you Muslims both before and in this (the Qur'an), that the Messenger (Muhammad) may be a witness over you and you be witnesses over mankind! So perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), give Zakat and hold fast to Allah [ie have confidence in Allah, and depend upon Him in all your affairs] He is your Maula (Patron, Lord, etc.), what an Excellent Maula (Patron, Lord, etc.) and what an Excellent Helper!
Surah Al-Hajj


90. And We took the Children of Israel across the sea, and Fir'aun (Pharaoh) with his hosts followed them in oppression and enmity, till when drowning overtook him, he said: "I believe that La ilaha illa (Huwa): (none has the right to be worshipped but) He, "in Whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am one of the Muslims (those who submit to Allah's Will)."
91. Now (you believe) while you refused to believe before and you were one of the Mufsidun (evil-doers, corrupts, etc.).

92. So this day We shall deliver your (dead) body (out from the sea) that you may be a sign to those who come after you! And verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.).

Surah Yunus
Titles different
Jewish Torah - Christian Gospel - and so on

But
Original
At the basis of faith
Islam



----Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did not know how to read or write
So did not write the Qur'an
But listen and keep the revelation of Gabriel peace be upon him and then say to the people

This is the mission of the Prophet
Message-carrying

Secretariat Report

Without an increase or decrease

This is a very big point

Continuous message of Islam to the Day of Resurrection

Unlike the Torah and the Gospel
Misrepresentation and distortion


The Greatest Man in history,

He is Mohammed Ibn Abdullah.
Mohammed means: The commendable in his attribute.

- He was the best person for he was better than any good sent to any human.
- If he was given two options on any subject he'd take the easier unless it is a sin.
- He was more timid than a virgin.

- He never carp food; if he liked it he ate and if he didn't he didn't eat not uttering a word of not liking.

- If he talked, he would talk slowly, not hurriedly and never go on talking nonsense, if you try to count his conversation you'd count it lesser than your fingers.
- He never liked to gossip about people, he'd say {No one tells me about anyone anything, for I like to meet you with clean heart}.

- He was the bravest person and the best decent, Anas said {I've served Prophet Mohammad for ten years he never said: a pooh for something I did or why did you do that? Or will you do that?} This means he never gave orders and never asked anyone to do him a favor.

- He never crap anything, no matter how bad it is.
- If anyone asked him a favor he never says no, he gives without hesitation not fearing poorness.

- He moons with the ignorant and he is patient when someone huts him.
- He smiles to anyone talks to him and concentrate on one's talk until makes one feel as if he is the most important person in the world.

- When he shakes hands in greeting, he never takes his hand before the one greeted. He'd greet first and finishes greeting last.
- He's tickle children and greets them and he'd wipe the orphans' heads and play with them.

- He's answer the invitation of: the free, the slave, the servant, the poor and he'd visit any sick person.
- If anyone wanted to whisper for him a thing he's bend his head to hear.
- He's always first to greet people.

- He was the best person to his family and very patient with them; he'd ignore their mistakes and help them at house work. He polished his shoes and sewed his clothes.
- If a kid came to him, he'd take his hand to talk to him and go with him anywhere he wants.

- He'd sit with the poor. At any board he with sit until the end.
- He hates anyone to stand when he enters and he'd prevent people to exaggerate to compliment him.

- His gravity is a wonder, he's laughter was smiles, he talks when needed, and he'd talk easily and clearly, he was the best symbol.
- If he disliked something, it'd show on his face but never would he utter a word of dislike.

- He wasn't nasty, or damned anything, he never gives badly for bad he would be patient, excusing and forgiving.
- He's never meet one is something he hates.

- Never loose temper nor seek revenge. Even the Godless of that time talked and witnessed his honesty, decency and his straightforwardness. He pitied captives, freed the slaves, he organized the country, cherished women and make her a autonomic and not cheap.

- He'd never fight unless for God.
- He never shouts nor aggrandizes his victory, when he entered Mecca he was devout, silent, his chin touches his chest because of fearing and thanking God. He didn't enter arrogance, conceit and egotism.

- A man saw him while he was roaming around Kaba (God's home in Mecca) the man shook of fearing him as a king on earth, but Prophet Mohammed told him: {Take it easy, I'm only the son of a woman who used to eat charqui in Mecca}


""If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and outstanding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad?"

-------
The following examples from history amply illustrate the fact that the status of women in earlier civilizations was very low to the extent that they were denied basic human dignity:

1. Babylonian Civilization:

The women were degraded and were denied all rights under the Babylonian law. If a man murdered a woman, instead of him being punished, his wife was put to death.

2. Greek Civilization:

Greek Civilization is considered the most glorious of all ancient civilizations. Under this very ‘glorious’ system, women were deprived of all rights and were looked down upon. In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings. The Greeks considered women to be subhuman and inferior to men. Though chastity of women was precious, and women were held in high esteem, the Greeks were later overwhelmed by ego and sexual perversions. Prostitution became a regular practice amongst all classes of Greek society.

3. Roman Civilization:

When Roman Civilization was at the zenith of its ‘glory’, a man even had the right to take the life of his wife. Prostitution and nudity were common amongst the Romans.

4. Egyptian Civilization:

The Egyptian considered women evil and as a sign of a devil.

5. Pre-Islamic Arabia:

Before Islam spread in Arabia, the Arabs looked down upon women and very often when a female child was born, she was buried alive.

2. Islam uplifted women and gave them equality and expects them to maintain their status

Islam uplifted the status of women and granted them their just rights 1434 years ago. Islam expects women to maintain their status.



-------
Inheritance:

Some people claim that Islam is unjust towards women because it entitles them to inherit half of what men get. In fact, those people only know one side of the truth.

First, the principle of women inheriting half the money is only applicable in 45 percent of the cases. In the other 55 percent, women inherit the same amount or sometimes even more. For example, a mother and a father each inherit the sixth of their son's property when they are not the only inheritors.

In addition, the laws of inheritance in Islam are proportional to the duties of spending. Indeed, a man in Islam has the responsibility of supporting his family, his brother's children (when his brother dies), his parents (when they retire and do not have an income), his children from his previous marriage (if he has them) and his household, including his wife and children. A woman, on the other hand, does not bear this responsibility. She has the freedom to use the money she collects from her dowry or work as she pleases.

You might object here, saying that women today are working and helping their husbands pay the expenses, which entitles them to share equality with men. In fact, you should know that women's economic assistance to their husbands, which has become the norm today, is only an answer to the females’ wishes. Islam does not oblige women to spend on their households. It is a free choice many women have themselves taken today to feel more liberated, so it does not entitle them to a bigger portion of the inheritance.


------
Through the provisions of the Islamic organization for that period and treatment for domestic issues
The king left, one of the most serious issues of prisoners war
Where extreme danger to the Muslim community if left to themselves

And where the full responsibility in the full treatment to normal
And circumstances

Were the provisions of the "King of the right

"Which guarantees the rights of women subjected to this exceptional situation, left by the war.

The first of the provisions of this regulation is cohabitation

And cohabitation king right should not be seen as just achieve the desire of the owner,
But the union is originally a natural right to women «king of the right.
Natural necessity instinctive ...
And as an assistant to live with difficult psychological phase that prevailed after the defeat of her people and the people and homeland

And especially the union have a profound impact in the psyche of women relieves a strong degree

The brunt of the hard life experienced by making it able to withstand the ordeal of

Derives its
And her sense of self temporarily

Through belonging to the guardian

And cohabitation which is desperately needed

As at the stage of loss of sense of self

And you want to treat belonging to her guardian and unable to have intercourse

Where it will be

One of the strongest reasons for feeling alone in captivity

most circumstances the loss of a sense of self

Hence determined legally and duty to address these conditions

And, of course,

Have the right to refuse intercourse

Hence the rule of adultery to the King right

Is half the extent of the rule of adultery

To be an indication of the mind king right in those circumstances

The system thus faces the king right

The most serious humanitarian consequences of wars

 

[spnadmin]

naben ji

Usually I understand what you are saying. This time I am not sure. Is your most recent post above a translation or summary of the YouTube videos? If you let me know then I will understand better where you are headed with the comments. If they are your own thoughts, then I am not getting your point. Please advise. Thank you

 

[aristotle]

I think Naben ji is all out for proselytizing. That is a thing I strongly feel, because Naben ji doesn't likes to debate. Just beating around the bush and posting a lot of Youtube videos won't do...

 

[spnadmin]

aristotle ji

I have given time and thought to whether Naben ji is "all out" proselytizing, and the question you ask is my reason for questioning him. My thoughts, after having read every comment on this thread more than once, and most (not all) of Naben ji's comments on other threads.

Naben ji's comments are written in the Islam section of Interfaith dialogs, and in conversation with other members about a topic in Islam. Now appearing to be a very traditional Mulsim, Naben ji has adopted a very traditional approach, which is to answer questions and respond to others by citing Muslim texts (Quran or Hadi'th) with very little interpretation. In other words, "you have a question" and "here is what the texts sacred to Islam have to say about it." So I don't think of that as proselytizing. Daweh is not something Naben ji has adopted; the form of daweh I know very well. He has never rudely contradicted any other person using abusive language. If anything like that happened, his remarks would have been deleted immediately.

The way I decide whether proselytizing has occurred depends on two things. Is a member using SPN as a free and open platform to convince others they should accept the eternal truth of the member's own path? Does the member follow-up with abuse (e.g., "you are ignorant, your scriptures are worthless, you are condemned because you do not agree with me")? This time I am not sure and I am asking Naben ji to explain himself before I take action.

Just to clarify. Islamic scripture, or any scripture, might state that we are condemned because our scriptures and beliefs are worthless, and we are not following the one true path. That alone would not be enough to delete because it is impossible to discuss beliefs if they cannot be posted.

Thanks for the opportunity to explain how I moderate.

 

[naben]

spnadmin


Thank you


This previous answers to the previous questions

- Monotheistic religions is the basis of science and knowledge

Exact match between the Holy Qur'an and the Hadith and science
In all fields of medicine - Astronomy - Heaven - earth - space - self 00000
And the testimony of scientists


-[/FONT]About
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him


-Position of women before Islam
And
Islam lifting of the dignity of women


-[/FONT]Inheritance (One case)


-"King of the right In Islam






----

Tilling, 1985, Volcanoes.

2- Russell Pysklywec, Impact of rainfall reaches to roots of mountains, University of Toronto, 20-Apr-2006.

[/FONT]

 

[naben]

1- Tilling, 1985, Volcanoes.

2- Russell Pysklywec, Impact of rainfall reaches to roots of mountains, University of Toronto, 20-Apr-2006.

3- German Scientists: Earth is Smaller than People Think, www.dw-world.de, 06.07.2007.

4- Tectonic Plates, National Science Digital Library.




59. O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad

), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (

), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.



Surah An-Nisa'

 

[namjiwankaur]

Peace to all...

Naben ji

I wasn't sure what you were listing below so I googled. I'll share a couple links I came across while googling.

1- Tilling, 1985, Volcanoes.

Earthquakes, Active Volcanoes & Plant Tectonics (maps)
http://www.uic.edu/classes/psych/psych353/role/map_quakes_volcanoes_plates.html

2- Russell Pysklywec, Impact of rainfall reaches to roots of mountains, University of Toronto, 20-Apr-2006.

Link to the article: Impact of Rainfall reaches to roots of mountains

3- German Scientists: Earth is Smaller than People Think, www.dw-world.de, 06.07.2007.

The full link to the article German Scientists: Earth is Smaller than People Think

4- Tectonic Plates, National Science Digital Library.

Plate Tectonics:


This could turn into a fascinating topic, I believe. No matter what religion we practice, the miraculous, mysterious ways of nature show God's Omnipotence.

59. O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad

), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (

), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.

Surah An-Nisa'

I'm going to recommend when you use a verse from Quran you make a clearer reference. IE (Quran An-Nisa 4:59) Its a lot easier to locate the verse referenced to this way. Sometimes I haven't known where you got the ayat from and I google it.

Nam Jiwan :blueturban:

 

[spnadmin]

namji{censored}aur ji

I do agree with you. And also, I think this is what naben ji is basically saying, in your words

This could turn into a fascinating topic, I believe. No matter what religion we practice, the miraculous, mysterious ways of nature show God's Omnipotence.

 

[naben]

Everything
In human life
Integrated manner associated with religion
The Oneness of allah
And follow the path of the prophets and messengers

Because it is the right way

This is the goal of human existence on earth


------------

, this role of the mountains is pointed out by a comparison with "pegs":

Have We not made the earth as a bed and the mountains its pegs? (Qur'an, 78:6-7)

The Qur'an draws attention to a very important geological function of mountains:

We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them… (Qur'an, 21:31)

The verse states that mountains perform the function of preventing shocks in the Earth. This fact was not known by anyone at the time the Qur'an was revealed. It was, in fact, brought to light only recently, as a result of the findings of modern geological research.

Formerly, it was thought that mountains were merely protrusions rising above the surface of the Earth. However, scientists realised that this was not actually the case, and that those parts known as the mountain root extended down as far as 10-15 times their own height. With these features, mountains play a similar role to a nail or peg firmly holding down a tent. For example, Mount Everest, the summit of which stands

Today, we know that the rocky external layer of the Earth's surface is riven by deep faults and split into plates swimming above the molten lava. Since the Earth revolves very quickly around its own axis, were it not for the fixing effect of the mountains, these plaques would shift. In such an event, soil would not collect on the Earth's surface, water would not accumulate in the soil, no plants could grow, and no roads or houses could be built. In short, life on Earth would be impossible. Through the mercy of Allah, however, mountains act like nails, and to a large extent, prevent movement in the Earth's surface.

We subjected the mountains to glorify [Allah] with him in the
evening and at sunrise.
(Qur’an, 38:18)

He cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so it would not move under you, and rivers and pathways so that hopefully
you would be guided.
(Qur’an, 16:15)

This vital role of mountains, which has been discovered by modern geological and seismic research, was revealed in the Qur'an centuries ago as an example of the supreme wisdom in Allah's creation.

… [He] cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so that it would not move under you… (Qur'an, 31:10)

 

[naben]

‫لماذا أختاروا الاسلام - الروسية تاتيانا كراÙيشينكو‬‎ - YouTube​

​

​

In a scientific text, the structure of mountains is described as follows:

Where continents are thicker, as in mountain ranges, the crust sinks deeper into the mantle.25

Professor Siaveda, a world-renowned underwater geologist, made the following comment in reference to the way that mountains have root-like stalks attaching them to the surface:

The fundamental difference between continental mountains and the oceanic mountains lies in its material... But the common denominator on both mountains are that they have roots to support the mountains. In the case of continental mountains, light-low density material from the mountain is extended down into the earth as a root. In the case of oceanic mountains, there is also light material supporting the mountain as a root... Therefore, the function of the roots are to support the mountains according to the law of Archimedes.26

Furthermore, a book titled Earth, by Dr. Frank Press, former president of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, which is still used as a text book in a great many universities, states that mountains are like stakes, and are buried deep under the surface of the Earth.27
​

 

[namjiwankaur]

Sat Nam _/|\_

I found some quotes about mountains online just now.

Men go abroad to wonder at the heights of mountains, at the huge waves of the sea, at the long courses of the rivers, at the vast compass of the ocean, at the circular motions of the stars, and they pass by themselves without wondering.
Saint Augustine

My father considered a walk among the mountains as the equivalent of churchgoing.
Aldous Huxley

Study how water flows in a valley stream, smoothly and freely between the rocks. Also learn from holy books and wise people. Everything - even mountains, rivers, plants and trees - should be your teacher.
Morihei Ueshiba

Mountains are not Stadiums where I satisfy my ambition to achieve, they are the cathedrals where I practice my religion.
Anatoli Boukreev

 

[spnadmin]

naben ji

What does the video just before namji{censored}aur jis comment have to do with mountains? It is woman's testimonial of how Islam changed her life. It has nothing to do with mountains, etc. and other natural phenomena.

You have the advantage if some of us cannot understand the videos you have posted. Maybe I need to go in a delete them if there is no relevance.

With respect I ask you to explain what the connection is between the videos and the topic of the thread. Second time around.