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Most of the Sikhs have Left Sikhe Behind to Succeed in Life!

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by Neutral Singh, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. Neutral Singh

    Neutral Singh
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    Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life. Examples given below.

    I remember a close relative who was the highest ranking Sikh in 1980's and used to live right next door to Indira Gandhi used to conduct havans at his residence. I know this as I stayed at his official residence for one month as I had been selected for NTSE scholarship (a prestigious scholarship whereby 150 students are selected based on their aptitude). Now even SGPC jathedars conduct havans. So I would not be surprised that all these big sikhs conduct havans to succeed in India. Even KPS Gill the supercop is a chela of Brindaban Havani baba.

    Jat-Sikhs have been almost 95% successful in leaving Sikhe behind. Others like Ramgharias, Khatris and rest of Hindu caste system related "Kuteer" are fast following behind and not far behind.

    Most of the scholars are busy these days in finding ways of proving that keeping hair is not essential for Sikhs. Others are busy proving that wine is alright to drink.

    While followers of Sant Babas are spending 95% of their time praising the Sant Babas and what they have done or can do for them. No one is worried about the path shown by Gurus. How much strenght of miracles so and so Baba has. They also do not hesitate discussing children granting prowess of various BABAS especially a male child to childless couples little realising that Guru Nanak never granted the wish to his own sister Bebe Nanaki who died childless. While other talk of how so and so Baba went against law of nature and gravity and common sense and granted such and such thing and took them out of "SANKATT". Little realising all the while that Guru Gobind Singh sacrificed all his family and did not conduct a single miracle.

    Greatest threat to Sikhism as a religion is from emergence of rejuvenated Punjabi culture which has completely engulfed the religion. Message of Sikhism is universal and is above any language or region. So Akali Dal can fight for river waters, or Punjabi suba. But SGPC should be neutral in this regard. SGPC should be bothered about spreading Sikhe to Punjabis, and UP and Bihari Bhaiyas alike. Also SGPC should not allow Radhasoami worshippers, Havan conductors into SGPC. This is matter of principal and not racist as I have already advocated that probably Bihari Bhaiyas in near future might carry Sikhe forward as Punjabi especially Jat Sikhs have left it way behind.

    Another thing I find surprising is that SGPC advocates Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Guru of Sikhs. While on the other hand it keeps on telling bravery of Namdharis "Kukas". Namdharis have their 14th Guru Now. Also they believe in a ridiculous concept of Guru Gobind Singh living in hiding as Baba Ajaipal Singh in Nabha till the age of 152 years and died in 1816 instead of commonly known year 1708. Where was Guru Sahib Namdharis should be asked when Vadda Ghallughara happened. SGCP should take bold stand on these issues.

    Sikhism has thrived on spirit and Anakh of downtrodden people who had the will to fight and live on horsebacks. It did not survive on the basis of powerfull people like JJ, Manmohan or Montek. Sikhe is going to survive on the shoulders of hardworking ordinary Sikhs. Tomorrow I would not be surprised if the poor Bhaiyas and downtrodden castes of Hindu system turn out to be shining glory of Panth. As current lot of so called Sikhs and leaders prove to be beyond redemption point. So I laugh when I read about Sikhs in HOT SEAT, as if they are going to do miracles for Sikhe.
     
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  3. S|kH

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    Hm, I've done my own analysis of the Punjabi-culture effect and, if they wish to speak of castes, the "Jat-Sikhs".

    From what I can tell, Jats are the first ones to leave Sikhi behind, but this is not to completely forget Sikhi. They are the first ones, I would say, to come to America, get into the "hip-hop scene" and cut their hair. Be those "Punjabi-thugs" you always see walking the street. Whilst some may argue this is bad, I consider these types of people as "reserves". If something were to happen, this "Jat-Sikh" would easily defend a fellow Sikh (Sardar) in either a fight or even start keeping the kesh himself if he noticed alot of hatred to him.

    While many of the other castes who are not as prone to the kesh-cutting, you can easily tell that once they cut it, they actually lose all significance of Sikhi.

    Now, let me prove how these statements have actually nothing related to caste and more to the punjabi-culture. There is one thing that no one can change, and that is that Sikhs have created what is pre-dominantly known as the Punjabi-culture. And no matter where you reside, for many more decades the view, the look of a Sikh will be a Sardar. The look of a Punjabi, the very essence will still remain a Sardar. Times will change, and our changing soon, but as of now its still assosciated with a Sardar, and the legacy will always remain this way. This is one positive influence of Punjabi-culture, it makes Sardars more easily accepted in thier punjabi communities and even sometimes glorified. Now, Jat-Sikhs are mostly farmers of the Punjab region, and the most practitioners of the culture that was apparent. Yes, when they came to America, they cut their kesh, but they raised their children with hardcore influence from Punjabi culture with all the bad things it has. This gives the children an innate sense of feeling for true Sikhs regardless of if they become one or not. Of course, this is due to lack of education that they totally leave Sikhi behind, but the children are still more prone to being a Sikh.

    Now, what happens in other castes is completely different. They are not even as accepted as being part of the culture in Punjab! Since, most is all about the Jat there, and even the songs and culture are speaking of Jats. When they come to America, they attempt to raise their children off similar Sikh principles (not always true), this results in the child either keeping his kesh, or completely abadoning it. But the difference here is, if he abadones it, he does not have Punjabi-cultural influence of what a Sardar holds, or a Sikh holds, and the brother-hood is lost too.

    It actually has nothing related to caste, but how one individual was raised. There are Jats who are raised to be hardcore Sikhs and are completely disgusted at Punjabi culture, just as there are Ramgharias completely into it. You can only give so much philosophy without a sense of culture or "fun".
    You need to feed a little bit of both and eventually when the child is mature, he will keep the philosophy and abadon the culture.

    I can tell you from viewing the Sikhs in England, that Punjabi culture has 1 positive effect -- that is, it makes a Sardar look much more accepted and "handsome". And, I'm sure mostly everyone can agree the Sikhs in England have done the best job of maintaining the identity while being involved in their new culture.
     
  4. Neutral Singh

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    1. Why are people leaving Sikhi and what can be done about it?

    2. Why do people leave the faiths they are born in and seek others?

    3. What do religions use to entice people?
     
  5. S|kH

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    I have pointed it out in my other post "The Future of Religion".
    Pretty old post by now, refer to that.

    People are not just leaving Sikhi behind, but what is most commonly referred to as "religion" in general is being left behind.

    1) People are not JUST leaving Sikhi, religions of older times are being left behind in general, or not nearly as strictly followed. It's just the system, its the way things work. When monotheism became the hottest thing on the block, same people questioned why people were just leaving polytheism behind and how to fix it.

    2) People leave faiths their born into because you can not be born into a faith. It's A PHILOSOPHY, you either learn about it, and if you disagree, select one which you choose to believe in. Guru Nanak left his "birth-faith" behind.
    But, if you want to speak on the lines of why people leave faiths that they are raised in, it is because either they are raised improperly or see so much misconduct by so-called believers of the faith. (i.e. Caste among the Panth, and widespread inequality...makes many people leave). (Pastors molesting children discredits the Church and puts a distaste in the publics mouth).

    3) I have no idea how to entice people. Most Sikhs do it by telling the stories of Kurbani. I'll tell you one thing though, it only lasts a few generations. When the time span becomes too large, the stories dont work as well. Read Christian History and the state of Christianity today. They used to tell their children, "Jesus died for you"...similar to how we tell our kids "All those Singhs died for you to live today"...It usually works now, because our religion is still young, give a few more generations and that will left behind.
     
  6. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    Akal Sahai

    1) Matterialistics have no place in Sikhism and spritualist are indeed joining the faith and we need to keep high spirit or chardi Kala.Lets us come out of Punjabis and jatts factor from Sikhism.Sikhism is for whole man kind.So what we say in Nihung language khot(unworhty) may go out but Good may come in.

    2) Person may leave his faith at birth

    a) to fullfill spritual needs
    b) To fulfill finacial needs
    c) to oppose some thing wrong in his religeon
    d) to uplift his parental religeon(Das is from last section as Das want the upliftment of whole of Hindu faith,So das wants them all to Be Sikh)

    3) religeon,who have spritual bankruptcy may invite the followers of other faith to there with allurements.
     
  7. devinesanative

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    Just for a moment lets forget that we are religious or sikhs , and simply percieve as living creatures..

    Any living Creature , gets birth , grows , attains maturity (Physical ) , then follow the natural law of REPRODUCTION .

    Animals have no BottleNecK in REPRODUCTION as they can do with anyone , anywhere without any formal certificate .

    But Human beings Do want to reproduce , experience ecstacy , sexual pleasure , but they also want to maintain the civilization .


    As you know in a civilizid society , the biggest Bottleneck to enjoy the pleasure life is the Success , Money , Wealth .


    The Whole world revolves around , this pleasure and ecstacy , Even religions are formed just have check on this erratic pleasures and ecstacy .


    God , is merely made a ScapeGoat by Human beings .

    So , all this need of pleasure and ecstacy everyone wants success , money and Wealth .


    Accept the reality the way it is , then no one will deviate from the path .

    But the question is who will bell the cat . Who wants to take Risk . Who has the enough courage and faith in God that Leave everything in the hands of GOD.

    Day and Night , Day in and Day out everywhere people blow their horns , everything is in the hands of God , whatever god will do will do good only .

    But while practising , their mind gets FUSED out .
     
  8. Anoop

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    my opinion would be that, many of us sikhs want to fit in with the society. That is why you would see them not carrying out the 5 k's. I really want to belive in god, but sometimes i think is there a need to be a proper sikh?
     
  9. Lionchild

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    [​IMG]
    Thank you Neutral Singh for bringing this up, these kinds of subjects really gets my mind going. Anyways, I would like to first off say that the Punjab region in India/Pakistan has not been lost, but is on the verge of collapsing or severely compromising itself, in terms of the Sikh community/people.
    The new or future center of Sikhism will be elsewhere, in terms of numbers of true sikhs. I really think that people have damaged our religion by mixing culture and religion. We already know that they don’t mix. Guru Nanak pushed away some of the cultural practices that were not good, and today, we are accepting them back in.
    This is a result of several reasons, but it all leads to lack of education and lack of reaching out to the masses – something that has been missing from sikhi for quite some time now.
    I have to agree, while the older religion’s (including ours) communities are in decline, the more open, outreaching, and more accepting (often smaller) religions are growing very fast. Sikhi is growing fast, but the percentage for ppl who are actually following the minimum or true sikhs is declining.
    Sikhi itself doesn’t need to change or evolve, it’s the people and communities that need to change/evolve/adapt to the current times. And that means not accepting culture back into sikhi, but to promote sikhi around the world and remain true to the path. Education is very important.
    As with anything that limps or is nearly dead, the world and people in general will simply leave it behind. Do we want sikhi to be just a memory? Or another sect of a larger religion?
    I don’t think anyone wants that.
     
  10. jonnyBravoWarm

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    Sat Sri AKAL

    What is happening to sikhism, has always happened to every religion. Even during the time when guruji's had the human form, there were not many people who were true sikhs.

    There is always a hirarchy, where there are few handful who are
    on the top of the hirarchy and the rest are just imitators. So we have
    a few true to the heart khalsa's, rest just are ( lets say ) flexible sikhs.
    The flexibility varies from person to person, some are fleixible enough to
    go to gurudwara once a week while others feel 5K's are not necessary.

    Sikhism has a solid base, and is NOT one of the religions who will just vanish.

    All we need is a strong hirarchy on the top. I understand that the person who goes to the extent of cutting their kesh, acts as a fullstop for sikhism in that family tree. He will never be able to make his next generation a true sikh by himself. Such a person looses all his identity of sikh and is left to the level of imitating sikhi by sporting
    khandas etc. Since his family is sikh, he does not follow any other
    religion and neither follows sikhism. So he is faithless ( nigura ) in all
    aspects. Hardly does anyone reach the moon by changing rockets midway.

    But on the other hand i understand that many people have awaken to
    sikhi and have become a part of the top hirarchy. These people are the light of sikhi.
    With every generation we are gaining true sikhs ( lets call them diamonds ). So we need not worry about these
    people. We should also not try to change the imitators ( lets call them coal ), because we cant change them.
    All we need to do is spread knowledge about sikhism, so that the people who have real thirst, whose heart has felt the need of truth, should know where to start from.

    With gods grace they will realise their own potential and become diamonds.

    Sikhism is a tree, anyone who feels the need of shade will come under it. Lets just tell everyone that there is such a tree.
     
  11. devinesanative

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    The stuffs of all the religions are feel good lyrical poems to put the people to sleep at night after days long hard work , but I bet these feel good stuff FAIL and FAIL at the Real and Practicalities of Life and World .

    This is evident even in the gurus times , if you closely probe from the 1st guru to the 10th guru .

    The 1st guru spread the message of peace , harmony and Love among the people .

    But When these failed on the practical grounds , then 10th guru tried to bring peace and harmony not through Love but through the Real and Practical Fight.
     
  12. devinesanative

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    Why sikhs always try to put the 10th guru first and the 1st guru last .

    The more emphasis on the ideals of 10th guru , sends a clear signal that the feel good lyrical poems fail on the real and practical grounds .

    If todays sikhs are changing for success , then there is no sin or crime or patitness in them .

    It is the need of the Survival .

    Those who don't acknowledge this they live in the world of FANTASY .

    But the world is not a FANTASY , it is real , so you must have the real and practical objectives , pious poems may psychologically motivate you but they alone are not enough.

    One question I would ask you ;

    Do you worship them those who don't earn success or money ?

    No ,

    You give depression to those who can't achieve success or money , they are treated by the society as stray dogs .
     
  13. drkhalsa

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life



    Dear Dedvinesenative ji


    I am wish that the you take the above mentioned explation of yours as your current understanding while leaving a room for further development of thought

    As I understand I could not agree with your thoughts
    May Akl give both of us further understanding



    Jatinder Singh
     
  14. jonnyBravoWarm

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    Sat Sri AKAL
    Quote:
    "But When these failed on the practical grounds , then 10th guru tried to bring peace and harmony not through Love but through the Real and Practical Fight."

    I really dont think that this is correct. Guru nanak dev ji didn't fail. His teachings are still valid and stand the test of time. There is no difference between the teachings of all the gurus. Guru Gobind singh ji did not ask us to hate or stop loving the world.
     
  15. BhagatSingh

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    lol to succeed in life fully u need a religion and sikhism is the best there is

    so those ppl are stupid and shud pray to god to give them some sense

    sikhism is a way of life

    succeed in it and ull succeed in life
     
  16. BhagatSingh

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    Re: Most of the Sikhs have left Sikhe behind to succeed in life

    all the gurus said the same thing lol so theres no first and last
    just the order of events
    if guru nanak dev cud live for 500 years then there wudnt have been a guru angad dev ji etc
     
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