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Most Members of Dalit Sect Don't Follow Sikh Tenets

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Archived_Member16, May 27, 2009.

  1. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
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    source: Most members of Dalit sect don't follow Sikh tenets - India - The Times of India

    Most members of Dalit sect don't follow Sikh tenets

    27 May 2009, 0130 hrs IST - THE TIMES OF INDIA


    Was the fight inside a Sikh gurdwara?

    The fight was inside a Guru Ravidass temple in Vienna and not a Sikh gurdwara. Although Ravidass temples house Sikh holy book, Guru Granth Sahib, their identity lies in the Ravidassia ideology, and with followers of Guru Ravidass, a Dalit saint of the 14th century Bhakti movement of India.

    How are Ravidassias and Sikhs different?

    While Ravidassias bow before Guru Granth Sahib, they are not necessarily Sikhs. Most members of the community do not follow Sikh tenets. They are a separate entity and most of them are Hindu SCs and clean shaven. Sikhs and Ravidassias, however, share some part of their religious philosophy with Sikhs treating the ‘bani’ (words) of Guru Ravidass with the same reverence as the rest of Sikh gurus.

    What’s Dera Sachkhand Ballan?

    It’s nearly a century old dera founded by Baba Pippal Dass who was from Ravidassia community. The dera preached philosophy of Guru Ravidass and principles from Guru Granth Sahib. It’s the biggest dera of the community.

    How are the main Ravidassia and Sikh rituals different?

    The respect and rendition of Guru Granth Sahib is common to both and even a good part of the ‘Ardaas’. But some of the rituals differ. In kirtans at Ravidass temples, the emphasis is mainly on compositions by Ravidass.

    Why are Dalit deras growing?

    Sikh Gurus criticized the caste system. In the 18th century, caste reared its head again in Punjab, influencing Sikhs. The latest conflict is an indication of Dalit awakening, aided to a large extent by increasing money power.



     
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  3. Satyaban

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    I don't think it helps to get rid of the caste system by identifying people as Dalits. They could have been identified as member of the Ravidassia sect.

    Om shanti shanti Om
    Satyaban
     
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  4. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Satyaban ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    I agree with you partially about that but the fact remains that whatever one calls them, it is not of their fault that they are of a lower caste but of Hinduism- the creator of caste system. What about people of other groups who are also in the same low caste system of Hinduism? By changing the name would not make the caste system disappear. Changing our hearts with the help of making Gurmat ideals our lifestyle may be the only way out.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    I agree with Tejwant Ji..

    Gandhi changed their name to HARIJANS.. Loved ones of the Hari...NOTHING CHANGED..they were still driven out of Hindu mandirs supposedly set up to worship HARI !!..simply because the OWNERS of these Hindu mandirs remnained the same "supposedly High caste pandits..and they despise these poor "harijans"...as the scum of the earth..

    WE ALL NEED to CHANGE OUR OWN HEARTS/MINDS.

    I read somewhere that there is a Hidnu mandir where they WASH it after every visit by High Class Govt VIPS ( but who are suppsoedly low caste dalits )...so to please the Govt..the VIPS are allowed to viist..BUT the "BHITTIAH"....dirtied mandir is then Ritually PURIFIED !!

    We must CUT the roots of this CURSE//this SCOURGE of Humanity...by doing parchaar among those who beleive in this human division..my HINDU BRothers can help in this...IF it disappears from HINDUISM..it will die a natural death in all other religions like Sikhi...that draw members from Hnduism..

    OM Shanti OM....:welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome:
     
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  6. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
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    This is what I have been emphsizing upon from the day one of the news. They are not necessarily Sikhs as the Media was projecting thro out.
    Things were blown out of proportion as if it was fight in between two sects of Sikhism. The facts have come up from Viena now. It was purely a fight to finish the rival group of the same sect by the people of followers of some one else of the same sect. Nothing to do with Sikhs. Let's finish this chapter. TOI on behalf of media has conceded the facts.
     
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  7. Satyaban

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    Friends
    I don't pretend to know a lot about caste but I understand it to be a perversion of the system of Varna, where each worked for the community according to their talents. Caste is not a part of my faith. One's position of birth is determined by karma but it is not a curse and can be overcome.

    Peace
    Satyaban
     
  8. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Satyaban ji

    The distinctions made by members arises from the continued reality of caste or varna within society. The practices and rituals often believed today were very early stamped into consciousness by the Law of Manu and also passages from vedas where Dalits are treated badly and women treated even worse. Here is a translation of the Law of Manu -- and within in the beliefs and rituals are given that Guru Nanak, himself born into a "Hindu" tradition, lost his patience with.

    http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/dharma/manusmriti_1.asp
    http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/dharma/manusmriti_2.asp
     
  9. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Satyaban ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Your name says a lot about being a truthseeker and I agree with you, that it may be a perversion of Varna but the question arises, by whom?

    By the elitist Brahmins who went home and took a bath when even the shadow of the low caste people hit them. These people were and are supposed to be the learned ones who should have the knowledge and the wisdom not to act like that. I understand and appreciate your intentions but when one keeps one's head buried in sand, several things can take place without him/her noticing anything and the first one is no one can hear him/her because of the posture and he/she can not see anything although may hear what is happening around.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  10. Satyaban

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    Wow I am very sorry for my absence from this thread.
    My comment about the perversion of Varna goes back to a time thousands of years ago. As I understand it those who had power and priveledge waqnted to keep it in the family and made it hereditary. I must add I have no collaborative evidence. Also what must be considered is karma and what caused people to be born in such circumstances. Judjing people on unknow actions of a previous life a sort of double jeopardy.

    As opposed to changing the names of groups don't indentify social groups at all just use a name or description whatever depending on the circumstance. I am reluctant to suggest more laws because that only creates more law breakers.

    Peace
    Satyaban
     
  11. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    One of the Terms of Service at SPn can be understood as follows: Although SPN respects adherents of other religions, our tolerance does not extend to the point where we permit disrespect of Sikhism. Tolerance works both ways.

    Thank you
     
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  12. Satyaban

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    I don't understand your post. Am I the cause of some disrespect?

    Peace
    Satyaban
     
  13. Josh martin

    Josh martin
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    only when really ****ed off! pun intended

    She deleted my post, which was reply to your post. Instead of taking out only the offense part.
     
  14. jasbirkaleka

    jasbirkaleka India
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    Sat Sri Akal.. I fully agree with you that followers of Ravi Das should not call their place of worship a Gurudwara. They should also have their own holy book of worship instead of installing Guru Granht Sahib in temples and giving same place of importance to their living guru in presence of Guru Granth Sahib.:}--}:
     
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  15. Satyaban

    Satyaban
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    Were you replying to my post? Was it nasty or mean spirited?

    Peace
    Satyaban
     
  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Satyaban ji

    The best strategy would be for Josh to tell you by private message. That way you could view it privately.
     
  17. Satyaban

    Satyaban
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    Cool

    Peace
    Satyaban
     

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