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Most Influential Man in History

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by muslim, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. muslim

    muslim
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  3. Neutral Singh

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    Interesting !! wonder why ?
     
  4. Singhstah

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    The above goes to show he hasnt done much reasearch on sikhi, mohammad sahib wasnt the only one to be a founder of a major religion and a major milatry/political leader. Guroo Gobind Singh Ji Mahraj started khalsa and was a great warrior,religious poet,political and military leader,scholar of languages, the list goes on...
     
  5. singhaj

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    Another Excerpt from Harts book: (that muslim forgot to mention)

    This list is compiled only for fun and reference. Certainly no theological or sociological inferences should be drawn from a subjectively chosen list of only 100 people from throughout human history.......
     
  6. drkhalsa

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    Dear Singhstah

    I Would like to say that the writer of the book listed influential people and didnt take into account what influences these people left . About whether he was aware of SIKHISM or not he only knows better
    About Comparing two personalities offcourse there were lot of differences

    here is some information about guruji qualities and it is well agreed that no man before him has ever possesed so much excellences in personalities .


    And the thing to note is that his praiser are not only hindu but muslim and christian also :) :)


    Guru Gobind Singh, the tenth Guru of the Sikhs, declared that he was the 'Slave of the Supreme Being,' come into this world to witness the great and wonderful drama. But when we look at his achievements, we are left in no doubt that he had qualities which are rarely to be found in one person. As a man he was a perfect human being who led a fancily life and behaved as an ideal husband, a loving father, a faithful son and an exemplary leader. He was a great nationalist who sacrificed his father, sons, friends, wealth and social status, comforts and home life for the sake of creating political awareness among his countrymen. In his religious philosophy and practice, he was every inch an internationalist. His was the faith of tolerance, equality, liberty and fraternity of mankind. Had he wished, he could have lived a life of peace, comfort and honour and he could have carved out a kingdom for himself and his sons.
    He was a perfect saint Who could ask his armies to halt even when being pursued and to stop for the evening prayers to be said on time. Throughout his life he neither resorted to lies nor did he encourage his followers to do so although he could have succeeded easily by using deceit. Even Muslims testify to the fact that he and his Sikhs never molested any woman. In a battle, a Muslim Officer's young wife fell into the hands of the Sikhs and it is on record that she was escorted home unmolested. So long as she remained in the Sikh Camp, she was treated as a sister.
    "Like Guru Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh attached the utmost importance to purity of life; but on a level with it he placed brave deeds and devotion to the Sikh cause. There was no higher duty for a Sikh than to die fighting in defence of his faith."
    (C. H. Payne pages 34-35)
    Although rendered friendless and helpless he never lost courage. In the jungles of Machhiwara, barefoot and hungry, he remained firm and sang a merry song:
    "O give Him this news of me,
    Without You O Lord, the luxury of soft beds is full of pain and discomfort,
    Pleasures of palaces are like living among snakes,
    The thorns that prick my feet are now my flask for drink.
    The dagger that is pursuing me is my cup, O Lord.
    Without Thy grace O Lord, comforts are nothing but a butcher's knife.
    The bed on the ground is heaven to me, Lord, if Thou art with me,
    Burnt be the rich dwellings. they are hell to me if I forget Thee."
    He had declared openly:
    "I will make the sparrow hunt and kill the falcon,
    I will make one Sikh fight a legion.
    Then and only then I can justify my name, Gobind Singh."

    "The Guru really succeeded in turning the very dregs of society into the sturdiest soldiers."
    G. C. Narang in his book, Transformation of Sikhism (page 84) writes:
    "Men who had never touched a sword or shouldered a gun became heroes. Confectioners and washermen and barbers became leaders of armies before whom the Rajas quailed and the Nawabs cowered with terror."
    He was an apostle of human unity and universal brotherhood. He loved all, rich and poor, Hindus and Muslims, princes and paupers. Learned men of all creeds Who feared Aurangzeb, found asylum in his sanctuary. He declared that love was the surest way to God.
    "I tell you the truth, hear ye all,
    Only those who love God's creation will find Him."
    He was an excellent poet and scholar and he appreciated the fine arts. He could write poetry in Punjabi, Hindi, Persian and Sanskrit and he was conversant with Arabic. His poetry is without parallel in all the languages in which he wrote. Although most of his literary work was washed away by Sarsa river, we still have quite a large amount of it in the 'Dasam Granth.' About the Guru's literary work, S. M. Latif writes as follows:
    "It raised the dormant energies of the Sikhs, who, at that time, were a vanquished race, and urged upon them the necessity of leading an active and useful life. The author infuses into it his fervour and spirit, kindling the mind of the reader with lofty ideas of social freedom, and inflaming them to deeds of valour ... his description of the heroic deeds of warlike men lays before the reader a vivid and sprightly picture of the fields of battle in ages gone by, and it animates him with ideas of morality, glory, national honour and ascendancy."
    The Guru had so much love for literary work that he kept 52 fine poets in his court and held poetic symposiums and literary competitions on important days.
    [B]He was a marvellous arched. [/B] [ ]It is said that once when his enemies were playing a game of chess the Guru shot an arrow which struck into one of the legs of the bedstead on which they sat. They began to wonder at the skill of the Guru who had shot from about a mile away. Just then another arrow came and struck the other leg of the bedstead. This one brought a piece of paper on which was written, "I do not believe in miracles. I believe in skill and this is what I teach my followers."
    As a prophet, the Guru is unique. His teachings are very scientific and most suitable for all times. Unlike many other prophets he never called himself God or 'the only son of God.' Instead he called all people the sons of God sharing His Kingdom equally. For himself he used the word 'Slave' or servant of God.
    "Those who call me God, will fall into the deep pit of hell.
    Regard me as one of his slaves and have no doubt whatever about it.
    I am a servant of the Supreme Being;
    and have come to behold the wonderful drama of life."
    He was the most excellent social reformer. He tried to abolish all distinctions of caste, race, creed, sex or social status and instead he fused all the people into one brotherhood. The Khalsa. He was never afraid when attacking hypocrisy. He declared:
    "What the Lord of the universe bade me say, that I will surely utter;
    And will not remain silent through fear of mortals."
    (Bachittar Natak - The Wonderful Drama)
    [COLOR=[B]DarkRed]He was a great statesman and his statesmanship [/B] [/COLOR] was basest on truth and morality. Never in his life did he resort to deceit, treachery or falsehood. He was alert and always well informed of the enemies' moves. He knew the art of making fortifications. The forts of Anandpur and Paunta speak volumes for his ability and foresight in the war. When people showed grief at the loss of his four sons, he showed great statesmanship in reaching the innermost recesses of the people's minds by saying "No, do not think that my sons are dead. They have gone into the lap of the Eternal Father, And on this earth, millions of my Singhs will always live and glorify my Father's Name."
    He was a great patriot and liberator who created self-confidence in his countrymen when they were degraded, debased and demoralised. His love for his country was bound less. He was the first to establish a democratic system in religion and politics. He was a nation-builder whose ideas still guide his followers. Perhaps, for the first time in history the Guru set an example of a disciple baptizing a prophet when he requested his Five Beloved Ones to baptise him and accept him as a member of The Khalsa.
    He valued his principles more than anything else. Once when on his way to Deccan, he bowed to the grave of a Muslim saint, in violation of his own instructions to The Khalsa, at once the Sikhs protested and the Guru was severely criticised. He gladly agreed to be judged and punished by the Sikhs. The Sikhs sat as judges and fined him. He gladly paid the fine. Later he disclosed that he did all this to test his Sikhs to see whether they cared more for their principles than mere personalities.
    Although the Guru had so many rare qualities of the head and the heart, he was never proud. He attributed all his successes to the grace of God and to the bravery of the Khalsa and said, "It is through their kindness that I have been so exalted; though there are millions of people like me."
    Thus we find in Guru Gobind Singh an ideal man, a poet, a scholar, a householder, a philosopher, a reformer and an internationalist. He was a friend of all, a fearless statesman, an excellent warrior, a reputed general, a famous administrator, a nation builder and a master of humour. The world will have to wait a long, long time to see such an ideal person again.
    What he inherited -
    Before the birth of Guru Gobind Singh the tyranny of the Muslim rulers had beaten all records. M. Dods describes it as follows:
    "Here converts (to Islam) are made on the field of battle with the sword at their throat. Tribes are, in a single hour, convinced of the truth of the new faith, because they have no alternative but extermination."
    (M. Dods, pages 101, 102)
    "The spirit of the Sikh religion promised to keep its votaries at peace with all mankind; but such views of comprehensive charity were particularly odious to the bigoted section of the Mohammedans."
    (Elphinston)
    "Nanak preached the gospel of peace; but there was no peace for Sikhs in the empire of the Mughals. Just as the Romans sought, by unremitting persecution, to stamp out Christianity, so the Mughal Emperors sought to stamp out The Khalsa. Like the Romans, they succeeded only in strengthening that which it was their purpose to destroy."
    (C. H. Payne, page 30)
    "The officially avowed policy in re-imposing the Jazia (a special tax imposed on the Hindus) was to increase the number of Muslims by putting pressure on the Hindus. The contemporary observer, Manucci noticed, 'any Hindus who were unable to pay, turned Muhammedan to obtain relief from the collectors."
    (J. N. Sarkar Aurangzeb Rejoices, page 158)
    "Ishwro va Dilishwro va - The lord of Delhi is as great as God - had long been a maxim with the terrified Hindus."
    (G. C. Narang, The Transformation of Sikhism, page 98)
    What he left -
    "He had broken the charm of sanctity attached to the lord of Delhi and destroyed the awe and terrier inspired by Muslim tyranny. Govind (Singh) had seen what was yet vital in the Hindu race, and he resumed it with promethean fire. He had taken up sparrows and had taught them to hunt down Imperial hawks. He was the first Indian leader who taught democratic principles and made his followers regard each other as Bhai or brother, and act by Gurmatta or general counsels. He taught them to regard themselves as the chosen of the Lord destined to crush tyranny and oppression, and look upon themselves as the future rulers of their land."
    (G. C. Narang, Transformation of Sikhism, page 98)
    "It is acknowledged on all hands that the conversion of a band of undisciplined Jats (given to rapine and plunder or to agricultural pursuits) into a body of conquerors and a political corporation, was due entirely to the genius of (Guru) Gobind (Singh)."
    (Mohammed Latif, History of the Punjab)
    "A living spirit possesses the whole Sikh people, and the impress of (Guru) Gobind (Singh) has not only elevated and altered the constitution of their minds, but has operated materially and given amplitude to their physical frames. The features and external form of a whole people have been modified, and a Sikh chief is not more distinguishable by his stately person and free and manly bearing, than a minister of his faith is by a lofty thoughtfulness of look, which Darks the fervour of his soul and his persuasion of the near presence of the divinity."
    (Cunningham's History of the Sikhs, page 75)
    Some Independent Opinions -
    "Come one, come all, follow me,
    The Guru gives you the call.
    From the depth of my inspired soul I say:
    Awake, my country, awake, arise."
    (Rabindra Nath Tagore)
    "Again and again have I meditated on the Khalsa Vows and aspirations. I wished these were inscribed on tablets and passed on from school to school, from college to college, from group to group of students and young folk, eager to serve India in these difficult days."
    (Sadhu T. L. Vaswani)
    "The creation of the Khalsa was the greatest work of the Guru. He created a type of superman, a universal man of God, casteless and country less. The Guru regarded himself as the servant of the Khalsa. He said, "To serve them pleases me the most; no other service is so dear to my soul." The Khalsa was the spearhead of resistance against tyranny."
    (Miss Pearl, S. Buck)
    "If we consider the work which (Guru) Gobind (Singh) accomplished, both in reforming his religion and instituting a new code of law for his followers, his personal bravery under all circumstances; his persevering endurance amidst difficulties, which would have disheartened others and overwhelmed them in inextricable distress, and lastly his final victory over his powerful enemies by the very men who had previously forsaken him, we need not be surprised that the Sikhs venerate his memory. He was undoubtedly a great man."
    (W, L. McGregor)
     
  7. Neutral Singh

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    Thanks Dr. Sahib, that easily summed up the whole topic...

    Regards
     
  8. ksnagra13

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    Hey. Muslim I would just like to say I think you intrepreting "influential" in the wrong way. Looking at this century Hilter can probaly be ranked one of the most influential people in the world.

    Another thing, there are only 1.3 billion muslims in the world and by year 2025 it Christainity will number 3 billion and Islam 2 billion. (I suggest you trying using neutral sources and not islamic websites).

    Also do you know that you guys maybe gaining thousands of converts in europe and north america, but are lsoing millions in africa. 6 million people in africa convert to christainity every year.

    another thing i would like to add is that MAJOR reason why you guys are the fastest growing religion ins't due to converts, but its because you guys procreate like rabbits. :)
     
  9. lion

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    yeah!,there are more muslims leaving islam,then converting into...,after seeing the true face of this religion......
     
  10. basha

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    Well I dont know whats going on in Africa but clearly any intelligent person can tell you that Islam is growing like wild fire, and it is both due to its message which purifies the soul and its culture and customs. And it is an exponential growth as well cuz we procreate like crazy while the rest of the world is not interested in procreating. Having kids nowadays is seen as a hassle unfortunately.

    But with all this good news about our numbers increasing, leading to our eventual rulership of the entire planet, we muslims forget how many of us will actually die as muslims, that number being close to none or very few. My point: Strength isnt in numbers. For those that might disagree that most muslims die as non-muslims, I present the following hadith.

    There is a famous tradition from the Holy Prophet SAWW recorded by both the Shias and the Ahle Sunnah traditionalists:

    'One who dies without recognizing the Imam of his time, dies the death of ignorance.'

    This means that even if a person accepts and conforms to all the Islamic beliefs and puts in practice all the edicts, but dies without recognizing the Imam of his time, his death will be on ignorance and apostasy. Such a person is condemned to eternal Hellfire regardless of his deeds in this world. This is because good deeds will only benefit a person provided his beliefs are correct, as espoused by the Quran and traditions. Hence, any person, who wants to secure himself from the raging fire of hell, should necessarily possess the recognition of the Imam of his time and not simply rely on his worship and virtuous deeds.
     
  11. basha

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    Although we have had many a great leaders, a true leader is able to execute and show results as well as have great ideas. The economics, social morals, education and arts were all transformed overnight (meaning during his lifetime). There hasnt been a leader who has produced results like that since him, although I have utmost respect for the admirable Guru Nanak Ji and venerable Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
     
  12. Singhstah

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    Guroo Gobind Singh Ji made sikhs be able to fight savaaa laakh
     
  13. Platinum007

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    I'll find the UNBIASED website i was viewing a few months ago, and actually Islam as the most converts compared to any other religions.
    Its quite amazing considering they don't go door to door like chirstains begging people to read the broucher they have just given you. I have a few christain friends who do missionary work. They could care less if a person "converts from the heart" they just want that convert. Where as in Islam they want a "real" convert who choses to convert from the heart.

    Reguardless the sourses Muslim as provided us with are not bias, you can look at influentional at many different levels, in the view this author used i would agree, but in different views it may be different

    just my 2 cents ;)
     
  14. ksnagra13

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    hey.

    first of all if you read my reply you will see that i didn't say that islam doesn't have the most converts, they do in europe in north america. but the thing you don't relize is that a lot of converts revert after and their are muslims that leave their religion even if you find that hard to believe.

    also when i was talking about unbiased site, i was referring to the population of islam and christainity in 2025. "muslim" stated that in 2025 islam will out number christainity in adherents, which is totally false.

    also its funny when you talk christainity going door to door, in islamic countries muslims don't even bother going to door to door to convince ppl to convert, ppl of other religions are persecuted and oppressed to convert them.

    and regarding influential person, i never once disaggred with it, i must meant that the way muslim was intrepting "influential" is wrong. even a evil person can be considered influential.
     
  15. Platinum007

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    i'm sorry your first point about the door to door just flew over my head maybe you can illistrate more

    for your second point yes, even an evil person can be considered influential. But it all depends under what CONTEXT your looking at things.
    Muhammed (peace be upon him) was a very influential in its own respects. Read up on history on Islam, and keep an OPEN MIND to things..its the only way to learn more about other cultures/faiths.
     
  16. Platinum007

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    you seem very confident when you say this, rather then saying it can you PROVE IT, providing facts...

    btw, i'm not attacting you.. i just disagree with you from what i've studied over time, and i'll keep an open mind and if you can illistrate your point in a sound logical manner i'll agree with you..
     
  17. ksnagra13

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    HEY.

    My first point about door to door

    you said that you have christian missionaries go door to door trying to just get a convert. All Iam saying is that is muslim countries, like Egypt a lot of ppl of other faiths are forced into Islam.

    As for influential, I am not saying Muhammed was evil or anything.

    And the last point about religion stats I can't prove it 100%, only time will tell, but most sources I visited show that Christainity will number 3 billion, and Islam 2 billion, and only reason why i sounded confident :thumbup: is because studies show that it is statisically impossible for Islam to have more adherents than Christainity until 2200. I will find the some sources for you and post it.
     
  18. Neutral Singh

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    And What do we achieve from this ?
     
  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    IMHO....NOTHING. Its just a case of "my dad is stronger than your dad"...my dad can jump higher than your dad..and so on.

    GO to ANY Muslim country... you will find that all other religions are totally "controlled" if not actually banned. What is the position of non-mulsims in Saudi Arabia ?? a non-muslim cant even enter and go everywherte in peace. in a 100% MUSLIM COUNTRY the muslims feel "threatened" by a few non muslims ?? IN my own country there are LAWS to catch "muslims" eating in public during ramdhan, muslims holding hands in public are arrested...etc religious zealots go peeping into peoples homes to catch them doing...??? god knows what.

    Jarnail singh.
     
  20. Platinum007

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    I've had family live in a Muslim country, they come visit and complain of no problems when i ask them.

    countries like saudia arbia have compounds where westerns can do what ever they wish, walk in bikini's, kiss in public if they wish, and drink.

    Its a muslim country, if they don't WANT to live there they can leave whenever they wish, there are many muslims who WISH to live in Saudia Arabia BECAUSE of its muslims laws.

    In my point of view Saudia Arabia is just protecting itself from any western influence. I live in canada, and trust me when you give people something small they want the whole arm. and what do you end up with?.. high theft levels, prostitiion, cousins, sisters, daughters and sleep around, alcoholics.... list goes on... not that i'm against western society, but after all we get to choose where we want to live.
     
  21. Platinum007

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    Aman Singh, I recall reading you live in Pakistan, and from reading this thread it brings up a question in mind... how do you feel about living in pakistan

    thank you
     

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