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More Sikh Philosophy!

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by BhagatSingh, Sep 23, 2008.

  1. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    SPNer sikhiart.com

    Apr 25, 2006
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    Topic: Enlightenment
    Note: Keep your posts short and concise! Try not to take bits from here and there and combine them to make new quotes. Try using www.srigranth.org. Try using only SGGS for things related to Sikhi.
    'nuff said

    While talking about this topic keep the following questions in mind.

    1. What is enlightenment?

    2. What is spiritual enlightenment?

    3. Is there a difference? If yes, what is it? Explain.

    Why would we want to be "spiritually enlightened" or "enlightened"? (What's the point of it?)

    How does SGGS (or another book) define and/or describe a path to such a goal (assuming it is a goal we must obtain)?

    6. How can we use our "enlightenment"/"spiritual enlightenment" to make the world a better place?

    7. Is such "enlightenment" / "spiritual enlightenment" measurable? Is yes, how? If not, why not?

    8. How does God play a role in "
    enlightenment" / "spiritual enlightenment" ?

    9. Does a lack of God affect
    "enlightenment" / "spiritual enlightenment"? If yes, how and why? If not, why not?

    10. How does knowledge, understanding, logical and rational thinking and scientific study affect
    "enlightenment" / "spiritual enlightenment"?
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Jun 17, 2004
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    mn qUM joiq srUpu hY Apxw mUlu pCwxu
    Mann toon joti saroop hai apnaa mool pashaan
    O my mind, you are That — the true image of the Divine Light — know your Reality

    Ang 441

    What good is it? Rids the mind of anger and therefore separation, of false ego and desire. Multiply the result by a random selection of just 10 percent of the people on earth. Less hatred, less violence. That is pretty good. This article makes some interesting points in answer to several of your questions.
    The Sword of Spiritual Wisdom.

  4. kawalsin

    kawalsin India
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    Jan 6, 2009
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    Dear Bhagat Singh ji

    Let me attempt to reply the first and last of your questions.

    1. What is enlightenment?. English as a language has severe limitations when we try to explain the concepts of Gumat. I will try my best.

    Gurbani calls it anand. English translates it as "Bliss" which in Gurmat is synonym of Enlightenment. Guru Amardaas Ji says in Anand Sahib (Ang 922)

    " ਅਨਦੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਹੋ ਸਗਲ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਪੂਰੇ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਉਤਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਵਿਸੂਰੇ ॥"

    "Listen to the song of bliss, O most fortunate ones; all your longings shall be fulfilled. I have obtained the Supreme Lord God, and all sorrows have been forgotten"
    So, in Gurmat Enlightenment means "Obtaining the Supreme Lord God", a state where "all your longings shall be fulfilled" and "and all sorrows have been forgotten".
    Now the last of your questions " How does knowledge, understanding, logical and rational thinking and scientific study affect "enlightenment" / "spiritual enlightenment?"
    They are actually the biggest hindrance in attainment of Enlightenment. Let us get an example from Gurbani again. Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Aasaa Raag ( Ang 396) says,
    "ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਕਿਤੈ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਈਐ ਤੁਠਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਜੋ ਦੇਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ
    "Cunning and cleverness are of no use. That which the Lord Master gives, by the Pleasure of His Will — that is pleasing to me."
    ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਕਿਤੈ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਈਐ can also be translated as " Worldly Cleverness and knowledge do not help at all in attaining 'Sukh' ". It is again the limitation of the English language that this point is difficult to understand by anyone not fully versed in Gurmukhi and Gurbani.
    I would like to humbly submit that there are certain things that can be explained and there are others that can only be experienced. A few of the examples of ther latter are Love, God, Death, Enlightenment. As Guru Nanak Dev Ji has said in Japji Sahib (Ang 2)
    "ਜੇ ਹਉ ਜਾਣਾ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਹਣਾ ਕਥਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥"
    "Even knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot be described in words."
    Kabir Ji says in Raag Gauree (Ang 340)
    "ਬਾਵਨ ਅਛਰ ਲੋਕ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਛੁ ਇਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ਏ ਅਖਰ ਖਿਰਿ ਜਾਹਿਗੇ ਓਇ ਅਖਰ ਇਨ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹਿ ਜਹਾ ਬੋਲ ਤਹ ਅਛਰ ਆਵਾ ਜਹ ਅਬੋਲ ਤਹ ਮਨੁ ਨ ਰਹਾਵਾ ਬੋਲ ਅਬੋਲ ਮਧਿ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ ਜਸ ਓਹੁ ਹੈ ਤਸ ਲਖੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਅਲਹ ਲਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਆ ਕਹਉ ਕਹਉ ਤ ਕੋ ਉਪਕਾਰ ਬਟਕ ਬੀਜ ਮਹਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਤੀਨਿ ਲੋਕ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ॥"
    "Through these fifty-two letters, the three worlds and all things are described. These letters shall perish; they cannot describe the Imperishable Lord. || 1 || Wherever there is speech, there are letters. Where there is no speech, there, the mind rests on nothing. He is in both speech and silence. No one can know Him as He is. || 2 || If I come to know the Lord, what can I say; what good does it do to speak? He is contained in the seed of the banyan-tree, and yet, His expanse spreads across the three worlds. || 3 ||"
    Just as Sun and Light are in-separable, so are God and Enlightenment. Light comes with Sun and Enlightenment comes with God. In one way, therefore, God and Enlightenment are the one and the same thing. They cannot be explained, only experienced.


    Kawaljit Singh
  5. Archived_Member5

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    (previously jeetijohal, account deactivated at her

    Mar 14, 2006
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    Enlightenment is the gaining of religious understanding and spiritual truths.

    Spiritual enlightenment is the expanding consciousness encompassing all truth and a heightened sense of intuitioned sensory perception, a universal consciousness.

    Religious understanding is the comprehension of reasoning and logic of the fundamental premises of truth towards gaining quantum understanding and wisdom. This incorporates cognitive perception of a thread of truth associating all paths towards the one truth and the inter correlation of Science, Religion and Philosophical applications in this quest.

    Gaining religious understanding clarifies life’s complexities and facilitates man in his journey to conquer his mind with an understanding of his self and his world, a mastery of his will thereby resulting in a freed spirit and will, lending him an austere liberated spiritedness, self reliance and true independence. Making sense of a confusing and irrational peoples and universe lends a comfort to the soul and emotional security.

    The SGGS explains in prose like poetry and detail the pitfalls and temptations inherent in an illusory world. It seeks to free man from fearful attachment to materialism, insecure dependency upon worldliness, and ignorant dogmatism. It is effective in not only enlightening the mind and illumining the path to spiritual salvation but inspires great love in its devotional poetry.

    The application of sound, unbiased and perfected reasoning assists in clearing controversy causing confusion, clarifying dual natured complexified premises of truths and simplifying what appears a web of deception in a perplexing world.

    The wisest and most transcendental souls become recluses or hermits. It is rather followers on the path inspired to write journals upon their journey towards intellectual illumination. Those who have found pure truth spend life ion perfect peace and bliss.

    Gods purpose if man to be free from the shackles of hate, paap, ignorance, and suffering. He has given the bread of his truth, word and wisdom, and the intoxicating elixir of his ineffable love and devotion to mans will to peace. A happy people is a Happy God. A struggling population brings great grief to the Father.

    Scientist are somewhat hindered by their neglect of philosophical tenets and spiritual science. All findings remain inconclusive until they encompass all aspects of the cosmological world into their theorising.

    A well conditioned free thinking mind finds peace and comfort and begins to truly live and love. Without a balanced mind in a state of equipoise man struggles in defence against the elements suffering trials and tribulations he has little control or sense to overcome.

    Enlightenment illumines mind, heart and spirit, and the paths to happiness, peace and salvation becomes as a chartered magical journey in a wonderful wonderland.
  6. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Jun 30, 2004
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    Enlightenment is learning the tools to build the bridge from Me-ism to One-ism with the help of SGGS as our manual.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Jun 17, 2004
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    Truly cool!:wah:

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