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Hinduism Morality, Culture and Media in Traditional and Modern India

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by jasbirkaleka, Mar 26, 2010.

  1. jasbirkaleka

    jasbirkaleka India
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    Pls.,could someone enlighten what was Krishna"s relation with Radha?:unsure:
     
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  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: Living together a part of right to life, not an offence: SC

    " Darling, your palace or mine?"
     
  4. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
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    Jasbir Kaleka ji,
    I hereby elaborate the relation between Lord Krishna and Radha Rani.
    The relationship between Radha and Krishna is the example of the highest and purest love. Before defining Love one should understand the difference between Love and Lust. Among Radha and Krishana there was spiritual love. ------
    Krishana:- Krishana is the origin of everything. He is the origin of love also.
    ATTRACTION: The attrction between boys and girls in the material world is *******ed reflection of the purely spiritual relationship between Radha and Krishana.
    SEXUAL RELATION AND SPIRTIUAL RELATION: One who thinks he can be happy through material sexual enjoyment cannot understand the relationship between Radha and Krishana-------From a bona fide Spiritual master his material sexual desires evaporate.
    TRUE LOVE: Kindly consider the factor of True love. It is one’s real desire to enjoy his own senses. We love someone as long as he or she satisfies our senses and when such sensual pleaure dwindles, the so-called love dwindles. This way the love affair Where ends?----Separation or divorce?
    DEVOTEES of LORD KRISHANA: they have no desire to please themselves. They desire to please Lord Krishana. This is true unalloyed love.
    IN MATERIAL WORLD DEFINITION OF LOVE: It has no permanent basis. Today one love one girl, tomorrow another, Although a boy and girl change sexual partners as often as dogs and cats do. Kindly don’t intermix Sexual intercourse as lovemaking.
    DON’T INTERLINK LOVE AND LUST: In material world there is no love but lust. The difference between love and lust is like the difference between gold and iron. Though both are metals but there is a vast difference between two.
    CONCLUDING PART: KRISHANA the Supreme Lord, being the source of everything, is fully independent. He is totally independent----In his existence, His knowledge and his pleasure for everything rests upon Him, as pearls are strung on a thread.
    RADHARANI & KRISHANA: Radharani is not a different person from Krishana, or rather She is both one with and different from Him. ---In define the above mentioned subject like this:-
    The sun can not exist without the sunshine, nor the sunshine without the sun. Though we used to say everyday that Sun is in my room. Though it is ninety three million miles away. Why we say because the sun appears in the form of its energy. Therefore the energy the sunshine and the energetic the sun are simultaneously one and different. Krishana is the self effulgent LORD is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Shrimati RadhaRani is His Supreme pleasure energy. Together They constitute the complete Absolute Truth.

    Tejwant Singhji,
    You have vast experience, secondly you are 55 years old. I could not understand what do you mean by “Darling, your palace or mine?” For whom you have used these words. Is it for Lord Krishana and Radharani or anyone else. I could not reply to your query because I could not understand the purpose of writing this sentence.

    Rajneesh Madhok
     
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  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Living together a part of right to life, not an offence: SC

    rajneesh ji

    I for one am feeling better informed now that you have explained another level of the Krishna/Radhna connection. This male/female aspect of union within the self is repeated in many other images from Hindu belief, and in other religions and belief systems as well. The source of misunderstanding -- on this point-- comes from the times and examples when the "carnal" level of the story is told. And that carnal aspect is the level on which popular culture and popular media fixate. So many times people will be vexed that a message seems to support behavior and values when that is entirely untrue.

    In other words, the stories of Krishna for centuries have been taken either to represent the purity that you describe in your comments or to promote a view that is the complete opposite. This is not a modern phenomenon. Even in Guru Nanak's day, such stories were taken literally and acted upon accordingly. Some got the spiritual content, others did not. The contradictions continue in our own current experience.

    Kanwardeep ji I think pulled this together in his comment below,



    It is true of almost every society, not only India, that immoral and amoral attitudes are found side by side with inflexible morality, blame and a thirst for punishment. In India the picture may be more stark and more dramatic because India is more populous and more diverse than other places.

    The spiritual elements within this story will escape most of us if people like you do not tell us what it is. Reading such interpretations is the only way to understand how such stories are guides to re-focus sensibilities toward spiritual balance and ethical decisions.
     
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  6. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Living together a part of right to life, not an offence: SC

    If moral standards of Hindu mythological gods become the benchmark then I am afraid anything including rape could be justified.Many Baba's in India use the aruguement of krishna and say we are doing what Krishna use to do when they force Girls to have sex with them.

    Tulsi is worshipped by almost all the hindu's but very few know the story behind it.Actually Tulsi is raped woman by Lord Vishnu.She was the wife of Demon jalandhar and she got boon from Shiv that as long as she remain faithful to her husband nobody could defeat jalandhar .Jalandhar became very powerful and started defeating all the gods.There was noway to defeat him as long as his wife is faithful and chaste.So the gods decide to hatch a conspiracy against her.One night Lord Vishnu disguised himself as Jalandhar and spent a night with her.When she knows about it she commit suicide.Lord vishnu give her a boon that she is also now considered as wife of Vishnu so she will be worshipped by world in form of a plant.After that it was easy for gods to beat jalandhar and Shiv ji just killed him.

    Coming to point of live in relationship.Only those couple's which are cut off from mainstream India are doing it and these type of relationships are more dangerous for women because Men can go back to their mainstream society and start a married life with another girl but there are hardly any taker for a girl who was in a live in relationship unless her family gives a very huge dowry or lie to groom
     
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  7. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: Living together a part of right to life, not an offence: SC

    Rajneesh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    You write:

    I am sorry to say that you have missed the title of the thread and the thread itself which made you jump to some preconceived conclusions and that is unfortunate.

    The most bewildering part of all this is that you are the one who started the thread and forgot what it is all about.

    Check the thread out that and you will find the answer but just to put your mind at ease, my comment was not directed to your mythological stories. And you can see from your own response that myths require long explanations.

    FYI, this is an old British joke about the British royalty which was directed at what this thread is all about.

    Tejwant Singh.

    PS: Next time when you expose my age, please make sure you use 55 year YOUNG.
     
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  8. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Re: Living together a part of right to life, not an offence: SC


    Excellent point.

    BUT my point is, should celebrities be the new Krishna's and Radha's?
     
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  9. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
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    Re: Living together a part of right to life, not an offence: SC

    Dear Kanwardeepji,
    I regret to get your representation. Kindly go through the interpretation made by the Holy books. Your arguments on the subject are totally unapproved as I am sure that not in Hindu mythology NO RELIGION JUSTIFY RAPE. Kindly don’t mix Lord Krishna with Babas’ arguments. Either the people has not studied the literature of Lord Krishana or there are some misconceptions in the understanding and interpretation. Lord Krishana who is complete in himself, how you interpreted such a tale, I don’t understand.
    I interpret the story behind worshipping of Tulsi.
    Tulsi or Holy Basil is worshipped in Hinduism and this plant is associated with Lord Vihnu and Lord Krishna. The significance of Tulsi plant, How this plant got sacred status. The story is as under:
    Satyabhama one of the queens of Lord Krishna was proud of her beauty and always though that Lord Krishna beloved her most. Sage Narada who came to know about this wrong notion of Satyabhama decided to trick her. He arrived at her residence and was traditionally welcomed by Satyabhama.
    Pleased with her hospitality, Sage Narada asked Satyabhama to ask a boon. She wanted the blessing from Sage Narada that Lord Krishna will be her husband in all her births.
    Sage Narada then said that it is a well known fact that one who donates the choicest article in this birth will get it back in the next birth. So she can now donate Lord Krishna to him to get it back in the next birth. Without much thought Satyabahama agreed to donate Lord krishana to Sage Narada. Soon Sage Narada approached Lord Krishna and asked him to accompany him as he was donated to him by Satyabahama.
    The news of Satyabahama donating Lord Krishana to Sage Narada spread like wildfire and the other queens of Lord krishana arrived on the scene. They surrounded Lord Krishna and said that they had equal right over him and Satyabhama cannot donate him.
    The queens pleaded to Sage Narada that they were ready to give anything in exchange of Lord Krishna. Sage Narada agreed to take equal amount of gold, precious stones and gold to the weight of Lord Krishna instead of the Lord Himself. The queens agreed. They brought all their valuables and placed it on a weighing scale and Lord Krishna sat on the other side of the scale, but scale did not move a fraction.
    Satyabhama then realized her folly and now desperately wanted to get back Lord Krishna. She said to the other queens that Lord Krishna loves me the most as I am the most beautiful and wealthy and the scale will only move when I donate my oranaments. So She went to weighing scale and placed all her ornaments. But the scale did not move a fraction. All her pride went to dust.
    On this Satyabhama got disappointed and went to Queen Renuka who was worshipping the Tulsi Plant. Upon hear the story, Queen Renuka plucked a Tusi leaf and gave to Satyabhama and asked to remove all the ornaments and place the Tulsi leaf on the weighing scale.
    Sage Narad happily took the Tulsi leaf and left the scene. A relieved Satyabahama and other queens went to Queen Renuka and joined in the worship of Tulsi.
    Concluding part: Queen Renuka told them that Lord Krishna cannot be moved by wealth or beauty but only by pure devotion. And Tulsi plant is one of his greates devotees. From that day People began to worship Tulsi and it attained sacred status.

    Why Tulsi is considered wife of Lord Vishnu.
    Tulsi is venerated as a goddess in Hinduism and sometimes considered a wife of God Vishnu. She is being called with a name of Vishnupriya, the beloved of Lord Vishnu. If you like to know the legend behind Tulsi Vivah and its rites then kindly go through the Scripture Pdma Purana.
    According to Hindu mythology the Tulsi plant was a woman named Vrinda, You may spell like Brinda, synonym of Tulsi. She was married to demon-kind Jalandhar. Due to her piety and devotion to Vishnu, her husband became invincible. Even God Shiva, the destroyer in the Hindu Trinity could not defeat jalandhar. So Shiva requested Vishnu- the preserver of Trinity to find a solution. Vishnu disguised himself as Jalandhar and vilated Vrinda. Her chastity destroyed, Jalandhar was killed by Shiva. Vrinda cursed Vishnu to become black in clolur and he would be separated from his wife. Thus he was transformed in to the black Shaligram Stone and in his Rama Avatar, his wife Sita was kidnapped by a demon kind and thus separated from him. Vrinda then burnt herself on her husband’s funeral pyre or immolated herself due to the shame. The gods or Vishnu transferred her soul to a plant, henceforth which was called as Tulsi. As per a blessing by Vishnu to marry Vrinda in her next birth, Vishnu in form of Shaligram married Tulsi on Prabhodhin Ekadashi. So, to commemonrate this event the ceremony of Tusi Vivah is being performed.



    I fully agree with you that Live in relationship are cutting off society with mainstream. I agree to you that the man can go back to the mainstream society and can start a married life with another girl but it is quite difficult for a girl to adjust after marriage with another person. In most of the cases the truth will never be disclosed while marrying this girl by the family members. Dowry is the secondary point but the foremost point is that the people will not accept that girl if she had been having the live in relationship in villages, small towns but if we consider about the life of celebrities in that case it is common in their life.



    Rajneesh Madhok
     
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  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Living together a part of right to life, not an offence: SC

    Dear rajneesh

    The story of tulsi is an example.As you said it is written in scriptures that lord vishnu spent night with her by disguising him as jalandhar.Those who have faith in Lord vishnu will give hundred of arguements to justify it and call it a leela and those who have not will call it a case of rape.So It is matter of faith.

    There are several thousands of stories Where moral standards could be questioned.Karunanidhi openly called Ram as drunkard He even challenged North Indian scholars about Debate on this issue.

    Anyway What My point is that Mythological stories should not be the benchmark of Moral standards O/W Many people use those stories and justify what they want to do
     
  11. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
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    Re: Living together a part of right to life, not an offence: SC

    Dear Kanwardeepji,

    The story of Tulsi has been elaborated earlier as well. Kindly go through and conclude yourself. I don’t like to argue das why should I put hundreds of arguments to justify. You yourself have mentioned that this is related with a matter of faith.
    “Manu tujhe ganga maa ho, na manu to behata pani”
    “I may consider you as Mother Ganges, if not you are the flowing water”
    “.Itni mamata nadiyon ko bhi jahan mata kah kar ke bulaate hain, Itana aadar insaan to kya patthar bhi pooje jate hain”
    Jahan Ram Abhi Tak Hai Nar Mein
    Naari Mein Abhi Tak Sita Hai
    Itne Paawan Hain Log Jahan
    O Itne Paawan Hain Log Jahan
    Main Nit Nit
    Main Nit Nit Sheesh Jhukata Hoon

    So much love with rivers we have, Even to the rivers we call her mother, Leave aside the respect to the persons, we worship to stones even, Ram is still in between the males and Still Sita is alive in females, so sacred and joyous people are here, I bow my head again and again.
    Kindly go through in depth the lines furnished above. Then kindly decide the purpose of teachings of Our holy scriptures.

    The questioning of moral standards can be made as there are not thousands but millions of stories. Dear Brother it is democracy, if Karnanudhi says something against the dignity of Lord Rama then it will not make a hue and cry. Why? Because in India the hue and cry is being made on the statements made against Minority communities and Dalits. Why the scholars of North India should indulge in the illogical debate.
    I agree to your thought that one should give statement and follow the mythological stories without deeply studying the teachings. Why many people use those stories to justify their ill-doings though the society knows well that what is right and wrong.
    Now the questions of blessings: If I say that the God-man will bless one’s daughter by providing devotional lectures. Now if I say that the same God-man delivers lecture to one’s daughter in prayer room, room or in kitchen. The atmosphere in all the places were different.
    DEEPVALI: Why we lit Deepaks. Deepavali comprises of two words. Deepa and Avali. A single Deep removes darkness. During Depavali when many deepaks are lit, a large amount of andhkar (darkness) is removed. Andhkaar has again two meanings one is darkness and the other is Agyan (Ignorance)
    Conclusion: There are sequence of events which over time show results.


    Rajneesh Madhok
     

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