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Misquoting To Make a Point!

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Randip Singh, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Historian SPNer Supporter

    May 25, 2005
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    Hi people, occaisonally I amuse myself by looking through Sikhism101 (Sikhism420) to see what glaring errors they have made today. Today I came accross an article on the most controversial of topics meat, but this discussion is not about meat, but about the lengths people go to just to force home their points, including lying, dishonesty and ignorance.

    Is this "essay" (I won't disnify it by calling it an essay because it is a series of diartribe), What is the attitude of Sikh Faith towards eating animals (i.e. meat)? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net, the section under historical sources states:

    Mohsin Fani (1615-70), the well known historian and a contemporary of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib, rites in his work DABISTAN-E-MAZAHIB as follows:

    "Having prohibited his disciples to drink wine and eat pork, he (Nanak) himself abstained from eating flesh and ordered not to hurt any living being. After him this precept was neglected by his followers; but Arjun Mal, one of the substitutes of his Faith, renewed the prohibition to eat flesh and said: This has not been approved by Nanak."

    Luckily for me I have the actual translation from Dabistan e Mazhib from Siques, Tigers or Thieves Parmjit Singh & Amandeep Singh Madra ISBN 978-8185229171:

    Many person became his disciples. Nanak believed in the Oneness of God and in the way that it is asserted in Muhammadan theology. He also believed in transmigration of souls. Holding wine and pork to be unlawful, he had [himself] abandoned eating meat. He decreed avoidance of causing harm to animals. It was after his time that meat-eating spread amongst his followers. Arjan Mal, who was on of his lineal succesors, found this to be evil. He prohibited people from eating meat, saying This is not in accordance with Nanaks wishes. Later, Hargobind, son of Arjan Mal, ate meat and took to hunting. Most of their [the Gurus] followers adopted his practice.
    Mobad Dabistan-I Mazahib 1645-46

    As you can see glaring differences and totally change the meaning.

    There are other sections in that "essay" which I will comment on but commentary on the Shabads can be found here:


    but as I stated I do not wish this to become a meat debate, but a debate into why people feel they have to use such underhand tactic.

    Another thing I picked up was the use of Varan Bhai Gurdas:

    ਅਕ ਧਤੂਰਾ ਖਾਧਿਆਂ ਕੁਹਿ ਕੁਹਿ ਖਲ ਉਖਲਿ ਵਿਣਸੀ ॥
    ਮਾਸੁ ਖਾਨਿ ਗਲ ਵਢਿ ਕੈ ਹਾਲੁ ਤਿਨਾੜਾ ਕਉਣੁ ਹੋਵਸੀ ॥
    "I was eating 'Ak' and 'Dhatura' plants (weed plants found in India) for whole of my life, to which no body else liked to eat. And even then I am being brutally killed and my skin being ripped, What will happen to those who cut my throat and eat my meat?
    (Vaar 25, Pauri 7)

    Elsewhere, Bhai Gurdaas Ji says:
    ਕੁਹੈ ਕਸਾਈ ਬਕਰੀ ਲਾਇ ਲੂਣ ਸੀਖ ਮਾਸੁ ਪਰੋਆ ॥
    ਹਸਿ ਹਸਿ ਬੋਲੇ ਕੁਹੀਂਦੀ ਖਾਧੇ ਅਕਿ ਹਾਲੁ ਇਹੁ ਹੋਆ॥
    ਮਾਸ ਖਾਨਿ ਗਿਲ ਛੁਰੀ ਦੇ ਹਾਲੁ ਤਿਨਾੜਾ ਕਉਣੁ ਅਲੋਆ ॥
    "Goat is being killed, cut into pieces, and salt being spread on the pieces. While being killed goat says this all happened to me while I was just eating 'Ak' plant (weed found in India's desert fields). What will be the fate of those in the Court of the Lord who cut my throat with a knife and eat my meat?"
    (Vaar 37, Pauri 21)

    this section section they convieniently miss this:

    Just as one has to tie pail's neck while taking out water,
    Just as to get Mani, snake is to be killed
    Just as to get Kasturi from deer's neck, deer is to be killed
    Just as to get oil, oil seeds are to be crushed
    To get kernel, pomegranate is to be broken
    Similarly to correct senseless people, sword has to be taken up.
    Bhai Gurdas, Var-34, pauri 13

    and this Displaying Vaar 23 Pauri 13 of 21 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas :

    Vaaran Bhai Gurdas :Vaar23Pauri13:SearchGurbani.com

    ਹਸਤਿ ਅਖਾਜੁ ਗੁਮਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਹੁ ਸਤਾਣਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਖਾਈ ।
    hasati akhaaju gumaan kari seehu sataanaa koi n khaaee|
    The proud elephant is inedible and none eats the mighty lion.
    Line 1 ਹੋਇ ਨਿਮਾਣੀ ਬਕਰੀ ਦੀਨ ਦੁਨੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਪਾਈ ।
    hoi nimaanee bakaree deen dunee vadiaaee paaee|
    Goat is humble and hence it is respected everywhere.
    Line 2 ਮਰਣੈ ਪਰਣੈ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਜਗਿ ਭੋਗਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਕਰਾਈ ।
    maranai paranai manneeai jagi bhogi paravaanu karaaee|
    On occasions of death, joy, marriage, yajna, etc only its meat dis accepted.
    Line 3 ਮਾਸੁ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਸਤ ਨੋ ਆਂਦਹੁ ਤਾਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਵਜਾਈ ।
    maasu pavitr grihasat no aandahu taar veechaari vajaaee|
    Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made.
    Line 4 ਚਮੜੇ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਰਿ ਜੁਤੀਆ ਸਾਧੂ ਚਰਣ ਸਰਣਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ।
    chamarhay deeaan kari juteeaa saadhoo charan sarani|iv|aaee|
    From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord.
    Line 5 ਤੂਰ ਪਖਾਵਜ ਮੜੀਦੇ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ ।
    toor pakhaavaj marheeday keeratanu saadhasangati sukhadaaee|
    Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord, is sung.
    Line 6 ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥੧੩॥
    saadhasangati satigur saranaaee ॥13॥
    In fact, going to the holy congregation is the same as going to the shelter of the true Guru.
    Line 7

    Does this person not understand the cryptic nature of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas and the metaphors?

    Why the deceit to make a point?

    Why do people feel the need to lie like this?

    How can we trust anything else this person has written?

    Have people come accross other deceitful essays on Sikhism101 site?

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  3. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
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    Jun 1, 2004
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    Randip ji, this analysis is breathtaking... surely, more to follow from your sword (pen)... :wah:
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  4. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    May 25, 2005
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    Hehe....thanks Aman ji :):D

    Anyone else come up with any essays with misquotes used in essays like this?

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