Pacific Miraculous Sign At Sikh Temple, Or . Is It Another Sign Of Sikh Gullibility With Miracles?

[ravneet_sb]

SAT SRI AKAAL,


I WAS JUST READING GURU'S BANI,



WHERE/WHEN HUMAN SOUL'S ARE IN PEACE, HAVE CROSSED BARRIER OF MAYA



tuDh sansaar upaa-i-aa. (71-17,)
You created the world,
siray sir DhanDhay laa-i-aa.
and assigned tasks to one and all.
vaykheh keetaa aapnaa kar kudrat paasaa dhaal jee-o. ||2||
You watch over Your Creation, and through Your All-powerful Creative Potency, You cast the dice. ||2||
pargat pahaarai jaapdaa.
You are manifest in the Expanse of Your Workshop.
sabh naavai no partaapdaa.
Everyone longs for Your Name,
satgur baajh na paa-i-o sabh mohee maa-i-aa jaal jee-o. ||3||
but without the Guru, no one finds You. All are enticed and trapped by Maya. ||3||
satgur ka-o bal jaa-ee-ai.
I am a sacrifice to the True Guru.
jit mili-ai param gat paa-ee-ai.
Meeting Him, the supreme status is obtained.

sur nar mun jan lochday so satgur dee-aa bujhaa-ay jee-o. ||4|| The angelic beings and the silent sages long for Him; the True Guru has given me this understanding. ||4||


satsangat kaisee jaanee-ai.
How is the Society of the Saints to be known?


jithai ayko naam vakhaanee-ai.
There, the Name of the One Lord is chanted.


ayko naam hukam hai naanak satgur dee-aa bujhaa-ay jee-o. ||5||
The One Name is the Lord's Command; O Nanak, the True Guru has given me this understanding. ||5||


ih jagat bharam bhulaa-i-aa.
This world has been deluded by doubt.
aaphu tuDh khu-aa-i-aa.
You Yourself, Lord, have led it astray.


partaap lagaa duhaaganee bhaag jinaa kay naahi jee-o. ||6||
The discarded soul-brides suffer in terrible agony; they have no luck at all. ||6||


duhaaganee ki-aa neesaanee-aa.
What are the signs of the discarded brides?


khasmahu ghuthee-aa fireh nimaanee-aa.
They miss their Husband Lord, and they wander around in dishonor.


mailay vays tinaa kaamnee dukhee rain vihaa-ay jee-o. ||7||
The clothes of those brides are filthy-they pass their life-night in agony. ||7||


sohaaganee ki-aa karam kamaa-i-aa.
What actions have the happy soul-brides performed?
poorab likhi-aa fal paa-i-aa.
They have obtained the fruit of their pre-ordained destiny.
nadar karay kai aapnee aapay la-ay milaa-ay jee-o. ||8||
Casting His Glance of Grace, the Lord unites them with Himself. ||8||
hukam jinaa no manaa-i-aa.
Those, whom God causes to abide by His Will,
tin antar sabad vasaa-i-aa.
have the Shabad of His Word abiding deep within.
sahee-aa say sohaaganee jin sah naal pi-aar jee-o. ||9||
They are the true soul-brides, who embrace love for their Husband Lord. ||9||
jinaa bhaanay kaa ras aa-i-aa.
Those who take pleasure in God's Will
tin vichahu bharam chukaa-i-aa.
remove doubt from within.
naanak satgur aisaa jaanee-ai jo sabhsai la-ay milaa-ay jee-o. ||10||
O Nanak, know Him as the True Guru, who unites all with the Lord. ||10||
satgur mili-ai fal paa-i-aa.
Meeting with the True Guru, they receive the fruits of their destiny,
jin vichahu ahkaran chukaa-i-aa.
and egotism is driven out from within.
durmat kaa dukh kati-aa bhaag baithaa mastak aa-ay jee-o. ||11||
The pain of evil-mindedness is eliminated; good fortune comes and shines radiantly from their foreheads. ||11||
amrit tayree baanee-aa.
The Bani of Your Word is Ambrosial Nectar.
tayri-aa bhagtaa ridai samaanee-aa.
It permeates the hearts of Your devotees.
sukh sayvaa andar rakhi-ai aapnee nadar karahi nistaar jee-o. ||12||
Serving You, peace is obtained; granting Your Mercy, You bestow salvation. ||12||
satgur mili-aa jaanee-ai.
Meeting with the True Guru, one comes to know;
jit mili-ai naam vakhaanee-ai.
by this meeting, one comes to chant the Name.
satgur baajh na paa-i-o sabh thakee karam kamaa-ay jee-o. ||13||
Without the True Guru, God is not found; all have grown weary of performing religious rituals. ||13||
ha-o satgur vitahu ghumaa-i-aa.
I am a sacrifice to the True Guru;
jin bharam bhulaa maarag paa-i-aa.
I was wandering in doubt, and He has set me on the right path.
nadar karay jay aapnee aapay la-ay ralaa-ay jee-o. ||14||
If the Lord casts His Glance of Grace, He unites us with Himself. ||14||
tooN sabhnaa maahi samaa-i-aa.
You, Lord, are pervading in all,
tin kartai aap lukaa-i-aa.
and yet, the Creator keeps Himself concealed.
naanak gurmukh pargat ho-i-aa jaa ka-o jot Dharee kartaar jee-o. ||15||
O Nanak, the Creator is revealed to the Gurmukh, within whom He has infused His Light. ||15||
aapay khasam nivaaji-aa.
The Master Himself bestows honor.
jee-o pind day saaji-aa.
He creates and bestows body and soul.
aapnay sayvak kee paij rakhee-aa du-ay kar mastak Dhaar jee-o. ||16||
He Himself preserves the honor of His servants; He places both His Hands upon their foreheads. ||16||
sabh sanjam rahay si-aanpaa.
All strict rituals are just clever contrivances.
mayraa parabh sabh kichh jaandaa.
My God knows everything.
pargat partaap vartaa-i-o sabh lok karai jaikaar jee-o. ||17||
He has made His Glory manifest, and all people celebrate Him. ||17 |
mayray gun avgan na beechaari-aa.
| He has not considered my merits and demerits;
parabh apnaa birad samaari-aa.
this is God's Own Nature.
kanth laa-ay kai rakhi-on lagai na tatee vaa-o jee-o. ||18||
Hugging me close in His Embrace, He protects me, and now, even the hot wind does not touch me. ||18||
mai man tan parabhoo Dhi-aa-i-aa.
Within my mind and body, I meditate on God.
jee-ay ichhi-arhaa fal paa-i-aa.
I have obtained the fruits of my soul's desire.
saah paatisaah sir khasam tooN jap naanak jeevai naa-o jee-o. ||19||
You are the Supreme Lord and Master, above the heads of kings. Nanak lives by chanting Your Name. ||19||
tuDh aapay aap upaa-i-aa.
You Yourself created the Universe;
doojaa khayl kar dikhlaa-i-aa.
You created the play of duality, and staged it.
sabh sacho sach varatdaa jis bhaavai tisai bujhaa-ay jee-o. ||20||
The Truest of the True is pervading everywhere; He instructs those with whom He is pleased. ||20||
gur parsaadee paa-i-aa.
By Guru's Grace, I have found God.
tithai maa-i-aa moh chukaa-i-aa.
By His Grace, I have shed emotional attachment to Maya.
kirpaa kar kai aapnee aapay la-ay samaa-ay jee-o. ||21||
Showering His Mercy, He has blended me into Himself. ||21||
gopee nai go-aalee-aa.
You are the Gopis, the milk-maids of Krishna; You are the sacred river Jamunaa; You are Krishna, the herdsman.

tuDh aapay go-ay uthaalee-aa.
You Yourself support the world.
hukmee bhaaNday saaji-aa tooN aapay bhann savaar jee-o. ||22||
By Your Command, human beings are fashioned. You Yourself embellish them, and then again destroy them. ||22||
jin satgur si-o chit laa-i-aa.
Those who have focused their consciousness on the True Guru
tinee doojaa bhaa-o chukaa-i-aa.
have rid themselves of the love of duality.
nirmal jot tin paraanee-aa o-ay chalay janam savaar jee-o. ||23||
The light of those mortal beings is immaculate. They depart after redeeming their lives. ||23||
tayree-aa sadaa sadaa chang-aa-ee-aa. mai raat dihai vadi-aa-ee-aaN.
Forever and ever, night and day, I praise the Greatness of Your Goodness.
anmangi-aa daan dayvnaa kaho naanak sach samaal jee-o. ||24||1||
You bestow Your Gifts, even if we do not ask for them. Says Nanak, contemplate the True Lord. ||24||1||


WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA,
WAHWGURU JI KI FATEH.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Another aspect that Sikhism/Gurmatt DIFFERS from the others is that Guru nanak ji says..Keeta pasao EKO KAWAO......The Creator CREATED.........and the CREATION CONTINUES.....( evolving )...Changing...improving...according to HIS HUKM.

The others say..He had the WORD..and created...He said "one word" and it was created. Meaning everything was created instantenously...and that conflicts with evolution...change....improvements etc...

so while the others may have miracles and may need them to affirm the power of their god/s..we DONT need to affrim naything..foir us THE CREATOR is supreme,..then, now and always.

That is true. And those from the abrahamic religions especially find this concept puzzling. Irene, my born-again, spirit-filled evangelical Christian caregiver often asks me questions about Sikhi. She is, of course, trying to trip me up and get ammunition to convert me. (Why I know this belongs under a different topic.)

The other day she asked me whether I believed in creation or evolution. I said, Both. She clearly made no sense of that, but bravely went on.

"So, do you believe God created everything in seven days?"

"No. I believe the creator has never stopped creating."

She fell silent and I could tell by the look on her face that what I said was beyond her comprehension.

(To be continued. Maybe)

 

[jasbirkaleka]

It is a state of mind, not falsehood. No one planted the magic show there. It just happened. Not all people are educated to the extent that they can see through such miracles. In a way blind faith and theory are the same thing. For e.g. scientists are blind faith followers of the big bang theory. They can't prove it, so they have this assumption.

It is the feeble-minded,scared people who believe in such nonsense as miracles etc.

We, the Sikhs, are followers of of the great Gurus who,through their teachings, gave us the strength to stand-up against all adversities and hard-ships, without waiting for miracles to happen.

If we, as Skhs too start believing in miracles and other such stuff,then what is the difference between us and the slavish followers of Satya Sai Baba and other such charlatans.

 

[simrat kaur]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh
''har hat bhi tu tu kare'' his devotees or those who are eager to meet wahegurujio will always see and hear or will try to see and hear him everywhere. komal hriday waliayan nu hi waheguru har thah dis sakda hai. sharda pathar nu vi rab bana sakdi hai.
i wont call it miracle but like in science ''serendipity'' discovered new things. For me this can be serendipity but attentive mind and focussed heart is needed to discover GOD or his presence around us. HE IS PRESENT EVERYWHERE IN EACH AND EVERY ATOM, MOLECULE...........

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat sri akaal,

to human still 4% of nature is visible, rest is invisible.

Like gravity was ever existing, but newton realised.

So nature is

generating
operating
destroying god

within and outside.

May not with physical sense

one can realize extending one's vision beyond physical sense.

As an example

person with physical sense

normal eye sense can see jaundice

but doctor with same eye sense can see inside, the micro cause and cure.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh

 

[Astroboy]

It is the feeble-minded,scared people who believe in such nonsense as miracles etc.

We, the Sikhs, are followers of of the great Gurus who,through their teachings, gave us the strength to stand-up against all adversities and hard-ships, without waiting for miracles to happen.

If we, as Skhs too start believing in miracles and other such stuff,then what is the difference between us and the slavish followers of Satya Sai Baba and other such charlatans.

We should not judge others beliefs on miracles that happen. For e.g. Bhagat Namdev when he started to recite the Hari's Virtues, the Dehura turned towards him. Now, don't tell me you don't believe in this miracle.

Shabad by Bhagat Nam Dev in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib where the temple rotated towards his direction as he was not allowed to sit in there.
Laughing and playing, I came to Your Temple, O Lord.
While Naam Dayv was worshipping, he was grabbed and driven out. || 1 ||
I am of a low social class, O Lord;
why was I born into a family of fabric dyers? || 1 || Pause ||
I picked up my blanket and went back, to sit behind the temple. || 2 ||
As Naam Dayv uttered the Glorious Praises of the Lord,
the temple turned around to face the Lord’s humble devotee. || 3 || 6 |

A miracle is important in the eyes of the beholder. Here's a video that will explain it:-

YouTube - A Blind Girl gets back her eyesight at harmandir Sahib Amrit

 

[spnadmin]

A Blind Girl gets back her eyesight at harmandir Sahib Amrit. I remember seeing a video on this. Isn't this a miracle for some people? Even if we choose to overlook this, it has made a difference to many. How can one say this is stupidity or feeble-minded or scared people?

It might not be important for some but for many others it is. So why pass judgement on others who want to believe in miracles. Another miracle often talked about is the mandir (dehura) which turned when Bhagat Namdev started to sing and recite the Virtues of Hari.

Because there is a lot of money to be made in gahtering spiritual wool. Miracles are big business with big tycoons and big flocks to be sheared.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Let the peace comes the way one want's,

be through learning,
be through worship,
be through hardship.

Ultimate goal peace and happiness,

nature wants peace it may be achieved by

my way,
his way
or
any ways

 

[spnadmin]

Let the peace comes the way one want's,

be through learning,
be through worship,
be through hardship.

Ultimate goal peace and happiness,

nature wants peace it may be achieved by

my way,
his way
or
any ways

ravnnet_sb ji

I am so sorry to have to take issue with you because I know that you mean only good. But what you have just posted is the royal road that baba derawales use to rope their flocks in. Peace is not achieved in any which way. If that were the case then monsters like Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin would be sants in their own traditions and we would be afraid to say anything to offend their panths. Wake up Khalsa ji.

A functioning being has to be able to discriminate dharma from adharma. Virtue from vice. Leveling out the differences between this path and that path is dangerous. It leads to the loss of an important mental function called discrimination. Differences often tell us more about what is really real than similarities. When we focus on the sameness of things we ignore important signals.

So belief in miracles comes from pure theft/larceny of the individual's ability to discriminate. Amoral people use "belief" in order to turn crowds of humans into droves of sheep.

I btw am not trying to convince you personally of my view. It is your right. Nor do I care if I win this argument or not. This is the Internet where arguments wax and wane like the moon. I only hope that some unseen reader who is sitting on the fence undecided will read what I say and be helped.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat sri akaal,

its wise writting

ignorance cause miracles,
without awareness,
life is full of miracles.

One may use his knowledge,
create miracles
to cause money or peace

with what one gives he gets.
This is law of nature

there is always a counter action to all our deeds

without knowledge our body is causing miracles every day


for instance

we look at food when hungry
counter action is mouth water produced be glands

who produced glands which scretes,
isn't this a miracle

how it scretion takes,
again without knowledge this is miracle


we drink liqour
body counter action is digestion

more we drink
daily chemical get released for digestion

one do it daily
it happens daily

for daily action

mind is left and it occurs at spine level

now one don't drink
but body releases digestive chemicals

this again prompt's to again drink

one may say what ever, one will drink, to balance the chemical produced.


So understand the inside counter action and body clock mechanism

try to see inside,

to break the outside influence

outside is disillusion

"ignorance" causes "miracles"


hukame under sabko,
bahar hukum na koi,

it is egoist discussion,
"sikh" should not get into it

there shall be main concern on preaching
awareness centres.

Work on it, rather than criticism and comments

imbibe guru's bani in actions

protect brothers and sisters "falling in ignorance"

they are "sikh" member's

waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh

 

[spnadmin]

As I said earlier, Wake up Khalsa ji. My only ethical responsibility is to those who have keen minds and who read what I have to say. Enjoy the fruits of your intellect! Life is short. Do not come to the end of your journey only to realize you have given all you have of time, energy and love to be a follower of false prophets and miracles. You are the miracle, truth is your identity, realize that one and only truth within you according to Gurbani, Sat Nam.

 

[spnadmin]

Astroboy ji

Where did you get this arth for Bhagat Namdev? Please rethink it.

We should not judge others beliefs on miracles that happen. For e.g. Bhagat Namdev when he started to recite the Hari's Virtues, the Dehura turned towards him. Now, don't tell me you don't believe in this miracle.

Shabad by Bhagat Nam Dev in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib where the temple rotated towards his direction as he was not allowed to sit in there.
Laughing and playing, I came to Your Temple, O Lord.
While Naam Dayv was worshipping, he was grabbed and driven out. || 1 ||
I am of a low social class, O Lord;
why was I born into a family of fabric dyers? || 1 || Pause ||
I picked up my blanket and went back, to sit behind the temple. || 2 ||
As Naam Dayv uttered the Glorious Praises of the Lord,
the temple turned around to face the Lord’s humble devotee. || 3 || 6 |

A miracle is important in the eyes of the beholder. Here's a video that will explain it:-

p/s I keep forgetting to ask you to give my warm regards to Dr. Tenma.

 

[Simranman1]

As I said earlier, Wake up Khalsa ji. My only ethical responsibility is to those who have keen minds and who read what I have to say. Enjoy the fruits of your intellect! Life is short. Do not come to the end of your journey only to realize you have given all you have of time, energy and love to be a follower of false prophets and miracles. You are the miracle, truth is your identity, realize that one and only truth within you according to Gurbani, Sat Nam.[/QUOte)

Well said SPADMINji.

Sas Sas Grias Naam, min. 6months! Enjoy!
Max, Life -TIME!

TTFN.

 

[spnadmin]

Scholarly thoughts about Bhagat Namdev:

ੴ
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ
ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ॥

ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾਂ ਕਉ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਫਿਰੈ॥
Bhagat Janan Ko Dehora Fireh!!

ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਦਾ, ਗੁਰੁ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੇ, ੧੧੬੪ ਅੰਗ ਤੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਇਹ ਤੁਕਹੈ, ਆਉ ਅੱਜ ਇਸ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਾਂ। ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹੈ:

Bhagat nmadev has a shabad on Page 1164 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Lets discuss this shabad.

ਹਸਤਖੇਲਤਤੇਰੇਦੇਹੁਰੇਆਇਆ॥ਭਗਤਿਕਰਤਨਾਮਾਪਕਰਿਉਠਾਇਆ॥੧॥
ਹੀਨੜੀਜਾਤਿਮੇਰੀਜਾਦਿਮਰਾਇਆ॥ਛੀਪੇਕੇਜਨਮਿਕਾਹੇਕਉਆਇਆ॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥
ਲੈਕਮਲੀਚਲਿਓਪਲਟਾਇ॥ਦੇਹੁਰੈਪਾਛੈਬੈਠਾਜਾਇ॥੨॥
ਜਿਉਜਿਉਨਾਮਾਹਰਿਗੁਣਉਚਰੈ॥ਭਗਤਜਨਾਂਕਉਦੇਹੁਰਾਫਿਰੈ॥੩॥ (੧੧੬੪)

ਰਹਾਉ = ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਅੱਗੇ ਇੱਕ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਰਖਦੇ ਹਨ, ਇੱਕ ਸਵਾਲ ਪੁਛਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਹੇ ਯਾਦਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਰਾਜੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਜੀ, ਜੇ ਛੀਂਬੇ ਦੀ ਜਾਤ ਹੀਨੜੀ ਹੈ, ਹੀਨ ਭਾਵਨਾ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ ਹੈ, ਨੀਚ ਜਾਤੀ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਇਸ ਜਾਤੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਿਉਂ ਆਇਆ ਹਾਂ? ਤੂੰ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਜਾਤੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਿਉਂ ਭੇਜਿਆ ਹੈ? ਕੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਕਰਮ ਏਨੇ ਹੀ ਭੈੜੇ ਸਨ ਕਿ ਤੂੰ ਮੈਨੂੰ, ਛੀਂਬੇ ਦੀ ਜਾਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਘੱਲਦਾ?

Bhagat namdev is saying he is in the Mandir of Krishan Lord of the Yadavs. He puts forward a question: OH Lord Krishan, Lord of the Yadavs, the Caste I belong to..CHHIMBA is LOW CASTE,,it brings with it feelings of lowness, then WHY AM I BORN in such a caste ? Why did YOU send me into this Low Caste ? Did I commit such low karmas to get into this low caste ?

1. Can we conclude that Bhagat Namdev is a Krishan Bhagat ? On the surface it seems that way and why not ? He lives in Pandit pur which is Krishan worshipping area, and naturally up to this incident Bhagat Namdev Ji too must have believed in Krishan as the Creator Lord as the Shaabd clearly puts questions that ONLY the CREATOR can answer.

2. He clearly came to the Krishan mandir to offer his prayers. He must have felt that the Krishan Moortee/idol in that Mandir is the Creator Lord.He came happily into the Mandir, sat before the Moortee of Krishan Ji and began to do “bhagtee”...

3. Then what happened ? The Brahmins stepped IN and Forcibly REMOVED Namdev Ji form the Moortee’s presence and even pushed him OUT of the mandir.

4. Hence the questions that arose in namdev Jis mind after this episode are the ones he raises in this Shaabd .

a) did YOU send me into this low caste and why ?? What bad deeds did I do to get into this situation ?

b) Since you sent me into a Human Body ( which incidentally is the ONLY WAY to achieve UNITY with the Lord Creator) giving me and the WOMEN human birth..BUT in a Low caste and Female form – thus NEGATING Holy Union with the Creator ?? This doesn’t make sense to me !! You gave me a Human form so i could achieve UNION with YOU, BUT you then made sure I was born in a Low caste that has NO RIGHT to do any Bhagtee or even visit your mandirs ??

c) are these really YOUR TERMS ? are these Pandits and Holy Brahmins really YOUR SERVANTS that carry out your commands and wishes to keep low castes like me and women out of YOUR Mandirs ??

d) Is this really YOUR Mandir ?? Your Moortee ? Is this the place to achieve UNION with YOU ??

ਇਸ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਇਹ ਸਾਬਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਕਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ, ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਦੇ ਭਗਤ ਸਨ। ਬਲਕਿ ਇਹ ਜ਼ਾਹਰ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ, ਪੰਡਰ ਪੁਰ ਰਹਣ ਕਾਰਨ, ਇਲਾਕਾ ਵਾਸੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਵ ਹੇਠ (ਉਸ ਵੇਲੈ ਤਕ) ਉਹ ਵੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਸਮਝਦੇ ਸਨ। ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚਲੀ, ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਦੀ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਸਮਝਦੇ ਸਨ। ਏਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਵ ਹੇਠ ਉਹ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਦੀ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਗਏ ਸਨ।

੧ = ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਰੂਪ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਨੂੰ, ਅਪਣੇ ਸਵਾਲ ਬਾਰੇ ਸਪੱਸ਼ਟ ਕਰਦੇ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ, ਹੇ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕਹਾਉਂਦੇ ਯਾਦਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਰਾਜੇ, ਜਦ ਮੈਂ ਹਸਦਾ ਖੇਡਦਾ, ਬੜੇ ਚਾਉ ਨਾਲ, ਤੇਰੇ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਤੇਰੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਨ ਗਿਆ, ਅਤੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਲੱਗਾ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ, ਨਾਮੇ ਨੂੰ, ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਨੂੰ, ਤੇਰੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਬਾਹੋਂ ਫੜ ਕੇ ਉਠਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ, ਤੇਰੇ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਕੱਢ ਦਿੱਤਾ। ਹੁਣ ਮੇਰੇ ਕੁੱਝ ਸਵਾਲ ਹਨ, ਧਿਆਨ ਨਾਲ ਸੁਣ। ਇੱਕ ਤਾਂ ਕੀ ਮੈਂ ਅਜਿਹੇ ਮਾੜੇ ਕਮ ਕੀਤੇ ਸਨ, ਜੋ ਤੂੰ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਛੀਂਬੇ ਦੇ ਜਨਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਭੇਜਿਆ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਵੀ ਕੋਈ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ? ਜੇ ਤੂੰ ਹੀ ਇਹ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ ਹਨ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਬੰਦੇ ਨੂੰ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜੂਨ, ਜੋ ਤੂੰ ਹੀ, ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਇੱਕ ਮਿਕ ਹੋਣ ਦੇ ਵਸੀਲੇ ਵਜੋਂ ਬਣਾਈ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ, ਜਾਂ ਮੇਰੇ ਵਰਗੇ ਹੋਰ ਨੀਵੀਆਂ ਜਾਤੀਆਂ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ, ਸਾਰੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਜਾਤੀ ਸਮੇਤ ਇਹ ਜੂਨ ਦੇਣ ਦਾ ਕੀ ਲਾਭ? ਅਸੀਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਮਿਲ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਾਂ?
(ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕੋਲੋਂ ਪੁਛੇ ਇਸ ਸਵਾਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਨੀਵੀਆਂ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ, ਔਰਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਚਨੌਤੀ ਅਤੇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਰੂਪੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੀ ਨਿਰਾਰਥਿਕਤਾ ਦਾ ਹੋਕਾ ਸੀ।)
ਦੂਸਰਾ ਇਹ ਕਿ, ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਹੀ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਵੀ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ? ਕੀ ਇਹ ਮੰਦਰ ਤੇਰਾ ਹੀ ਨਿਵਾਸ ਅਸਥਾਨ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਦਾਖਲ ਹੋਣ ਦਾ ਵੀ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ? ਕੀ ਇਹ ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਹੀ ਭਗਤ ਹਨ, ਜੋ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਰੋਕਦੇ ਹਨ?

5. Bhagat Namdev ji GOT NO ANSWERS. That is perfectly natural because the Pandits and the Brahmins had NO ANSWERS to such embarrassing questions especially they and their high castes being put under the scanner by a low caste tailor. So where were the answers to come from...FROM THE GYAAN GURU HIMSELF..sitting WITHIN EACH OF US..and in Nmadev jis HIRDAH !!

6. Thats what Bhagat Namdev Ji did..SEARCH WITHIN. And that is mentioned in the concluding 2 Padas of this shabad.
ਪਰ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕਿ ਸਾਰੇ ਜਾਣਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਸਵਾਲ ਦਾ ਜਵਾਬ ਕਿਸ ਕੋਲੋਂ ਅਤੇ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਮਿਲਣਾ ਸੀ? ਇਸ ਦਾ ਜਵਾਬ ਸਿਰਫ ਗਿਆਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਅਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ ਹੀ ਲੱਭਣਾ ਸੀ, ਇਹੀ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਕੀਤਾ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਵਰਣਨ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਅਗਲੇ ਦੋ ਪਦਿਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ।

7. WHEN the pundits and the Brahmins took hold of my arms and dragged me OUT of the Mandir and threw me OUT..I realised that THIS COULD NOT be the Mandir of the CREATOR LORD..the Moortee installed there could not be that of the Creator Lord.... So then what happened ??
8. Heres the interesting part !! The SAKHI CREATORS tell us that Lo and Behold..the MANDIR swirled on its FOUNDATIONS...to FACE Bhagat namdev JI......

9. BUT is that what really happened ?? Did the Mandir Face Namdev Ji..and DID HE THEN RE-ENTER it ?? Did the Moortee, the Brahmins the Pandits come out in awe and beg forgiveness form namdev Ji and allow him to continue his bhagtee ??

੨ = ਜਦੋਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਬਾਂਹ ਫੜ ਕੇ ਧੱਕੇ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਹਰ ਕੱਢ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਤਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਸਮਝ ਗਿਆ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਉਸ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ, ਜੋ ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਸਭ ਨੂੰ (ਬਿਨਾ ਵਿਤਕਰੇ ਦੇ) ਜ਼ਿੰਦਾ ਰਹਣ ਲਈ ਦਾਤਾਂ ਦਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਜੋ ਸਭ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਵਸਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸੋ ਮੈਂ ਅਪਣੀ ਕੰਬਲੀ, ਅਪਣਾ ਸਾਰਾ ਸਮਾਨ ਲੈ ਕੇ, ਉਸ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਨਾਤਾ ਤੋੜ ਕੇ ਵਾਪਸ ਆ ਗਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਦੇਹੁਰੇ, ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪਿਛਵਾੜੇ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬੈਠ ਗਿਆ। ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਇੱਕ ਕਹਾਵਤ ਹੈ ਕਿ, ਭੁੰਜੇ ਸੌਣਾ ਤਾਂ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਅਖਵਾਉਣਾ? ਅਰਥਾਤ ਜਦੋਂ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਦੀ ਬਖਸ਼ੀ ਧਰਤੀ ਤੇ ਹੀ ਸੌਣਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਅਖਵਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਗੁੰਜਾਇਸ਼ ਕਿੱਥੇ ਕਿ ਪਰ੍ਹੇ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਸੌਂ? ਜਦ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਮੰਦਰ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਨਾਤਾ ਤੋੜ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਆ ਗਏ, ਤਾਂ ਫਿਰ ਮੰਦਰ ਨਾਲ ਕਾਹਦਾ ਮੋਹ? ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪਛਵਾੜੇ ਬੈਠਣ ਦੀ ਕੀ ਤੁਕ? ਸਪੱਸ਼ਟ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪਛਵਾੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਬੈਠੇ, ਬਲਕਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਨੂੰ ਪਿੱਠ ਦੇ ਕੇ, ਸਦਾ ਲਈ ਤਿਆਗ ਬੈਠੇ।

10. NO NO NO...Bhagat namdev Ji broke off all connections with that FALSE MANDIR, false moortee and false Pandits. He wanted UNION with the REAL CREATOR....and Namdev Ji had learnt that the Creator was NOT present in that place. Hence Namdev Ji TURNED HIS BACK and WALKED AWAY !!! the Mandir didn’t turn..Namdev Ji TURNED AWAY. Thats natural..he was thrown OUT...in a disgraceful manner ( there must have been harsh insults thrown his way as well )..so what earthly reason would Namdev ji have to still insist on sitting near the same mandir (at the back where he wouldnt be visible ??) No way. Namdev ji turned away and went elsewhere where he could do REAL BHAGTEE of the REAL CREATOR in real terms !! among HUMANITY.

੩ = ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਨਾਮਾ ਹਰੀ ਦੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਗੁਣਾਂ ਦੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੁੱਧੀ ਜਾਗਦੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਉਸਨੂੰ ਗਿਆਨ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ, ਇਹ ਮੰਦਰ ਭਗਤਾਂ ਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਪੁਜਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਲੁੱਟ ਦਾ ਅੱਡਾ ਹੈ। ਇਹ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੇ ਭਗਤ ਨਹੀਂ, ਬਨਾਰਸ ਦੇ ਠੱਗ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਮੂਰਤੀ, ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਪਾਲਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੀ ਨਹੀਂ, ਉਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਚਲਦੇ ਫਿਰਦੇ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਰਜ਼ਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਚਲਦੇ ਇਨਸਾਨ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਤਾਂ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਦੀ ਲੁੱਟ ਦਾ ਸਾਧਨ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਪਾਤਾਂ, ਉਸ ਨਿਰਵੈਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀਆਂ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ ਹੋਈਆਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਹਨ ਬਲਕਿ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਵਲੋਂ, ਅਪਣੇ ਲੁੱਟ ਜਾਲ ਨੂੰ ਪੱਕਿਆਂ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਸਮਾਜ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਾਈਆਂ ਹੋਈਆਂ ਵੰਡੀਆਂ ਹਨ।

11. AS Nama began to sing the praises of the real creator,,sing His Gunns..his INNER MIND awoke..and he realised that this mandir/similar places/Brahmins etc are just places where the unwary are LOOTED. This is NOT His Place..nor His Bhgats..nor are the moortees of the Creator..His “Moortees” are the walking living breathing HUMANS who walk in HIS WAYS..who LIVE in His HUKM..who Love Him in their own ways.
12. The Creator certainly DID NOT create all these castes..high or low..these divisions.. the enmity..the animosity..ALL these are HUMAN INVENTIONS created to LOOT and rule over fellow humans. He is sans enmity...sans fear..all LOVE..Fair to all and equally loving of all He created..
(ਇਹ ਅਜਿਹੀ ਗੱਲ ਸੀ ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਹਜ਼ਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰ ਸਕਦਾ ਸੀ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਤਾਂ ਤਾਣਾ-ਬਾਣਾ ਹੀ ਇੱਟਾਂਦਾ ਮੰਦਰ, ਪੱਥਰ ਦੀਆਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਅਤੇ ਸਮਾਜ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਾਈਆਂ ਵੰਡੀਆਂ ਆਸਰੇ ਖੜਾ ਹੈ।)

13. This is what the Brahmin/Pandit and.( Now....in the Sikh Context the Jathedars/Gyanis/Derawadee Sants/saadhs) !! CANNOT possibly “accept” ? How could they ? Their entire “religious Empire/Spider WEB” rests on the Foundation of Divide and Rule, keeping people divided and suppressed..away from KNOWLEDGE and GYAAN of the Shabad Guru. IF they had interpreted Bhagat namdev Jis Shaabd CORRECTLY that would have meant the ANNIHILATION and COLLAPSE of their religious authority/empire and looting places to close down. So they did the next best thing..their PR Machinery got into the act..and out came the... ”Wonderful fairy tale... the Tallest of all Tales... Mother of Tall tales... the SWIRLING MANDIR!! we have heard of Rotating restaurants on top of high rise buildings..this was the Rotating mandir of the 13th Century!! BOTH entirely MAN MADE!! except that “Rotating restaurants do exist... the Rotating mandir is FICTION.

14. What a clever way to turn things on their heads... to assert that Bhagt namdev ji wasn’t at all annoyed at being thrown OUT of the Mandir... he didn’t break off with the Mandir or the moortee/idols or the Brahmins... He merely retreated to the BACK of the mandir and began to MEDITATE !! (ON WHAT ?? is not cleared in the PR Tall tale). But as Bhagat ji meditated more and more strongly... the Stone Building of the Mandir began to ROTATE on its Foundation to FACE the Bahgat sitting at the BACK.

15. So these tall tales author wants us to believe that ESSENTIALLY NOTHING CHANGED... the Moortees, the idols the Brahmins high castes and namdevs low caste, females not welcome in Mandirs etc etc ALL STATUS QUO was maintained... all that Namdev Jis “bhagtee” achieved was a SOLE MANDIR ROTATING a little!! END of STORY... Now Back to your Low caste... Shudras not welcome in mandirs, women despised as lowly... etc etc etc... all back to square ONE!! HOW very CHARMING !! And many believed this Tall Tale and began to repeat it... much to the delight of its creators... and SIKH Gyanis and ragis also preached this tall tale very vigorously in Kirtan darbars and Gurdwaras... places where the GYAAN GURU... Shabad GURU Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Parkash and this GURU proclaims loudly at every turn that the LAWS of the CREATOR are made so that they cannot be challenged... and hence something that has its ROOTS in the Earth..that something doesn’t walk about..trees don’t walk about..buildings dont move about... BUT then these people who LOOT in name of religion are very adept and clever at fooling others... they can make TREES move, Suns shadow stand still...buildings move... just so that their “looting of the innocents and the simple simons” can go on !!


16. Its a sad commentary on the times that today even as much as 95% SIKHS are joined to such “stone buildings/mandirs/gurdwaras/...moortees, shiv lingams and diwali devis, holis, rakhrees, karva chauths fastings, teerath baths, keshadharee Brahmins who are pujarees in sikh form, High and Low CASTES... etc etc etc...” (even stone idols were installed in the DARBAR SAHIB now popularly called Harimandir... and these were forcibly REMOVED in 1920s...) and the way things are going NOW..they may stage a come back... we have Ramgarriah Gurdwaras, Namdev Gurdawras, Ravidass Gurdwras, Jatt gurdwaras... Chhimba Gurdwaras, kamboj Gurdwaras, etc etc all of which are signs of religious degradation maong us and falling back into the ritualism and empty karam kaands condemned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at every turn.

ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੇ ਸਹੀ ਅਰਥ ਕੀਤਿਆਂ ਤਾਂ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਫੂਹਵੀ ਹੀ ਵਲੇਟ੍ਹੀ ਜਾਣੀ ਸੀ, ਪਰ ਲੁੱਟ ਦਾ ਮਾਲ ਖਾਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਦਮਾਗੀ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਚਤੁਰ (ਆਤਮਕ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਓਨੇ ਹੀ ਮੁਰਦਾ) ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਕਿ ਜਦ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੇ ਧੱਕੇ ਮਾਰ ਕੇ ਮੰਦਰ `ਚੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਕੱਢ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਤਾਂ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪਿਛਵਾੜੇ ਬੈਠ ਕੇ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਲੱਗੇ। (ਮੰਦਰ ਨਾਲੋਂ, ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਅਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਨਾਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਤੋੜਿਆ) ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਰਹੇ, ਦੇਹੁਰੇ ਦਾ, ਮੰਦਰ ਦਾ ਦੁਆਰ ਘੁੰਮ ਕੇ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਵੱਲ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਗਿਆ।

ਯਾਨੀ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਆਸਰੇ, ਕਰਾਮਾਤ ਵਾਪਰ ਗਈ ਅਤੇ ਦੇਹੁਰੇ ਦਾ ਦਵਾਰ ਘੁੰਮ ਕੇ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਵੱਲ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ।

ਫਿਰ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚਲੀਆਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਹੋਰ ਕਿੱਥੇ ਹੈ? ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚਲੇ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ, ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੇ ਭਗਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਹੋਰ ਕੌਣ ਹਨ?

ਮਜ਼ੇ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਕੇਸਾ ਧਾਰੀ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ (ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ) ਜੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਊ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਇਸ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਨੂੰ ਅਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਨਦੇ ਹਨ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਕੰਮ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਵਿਖਾਵਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਉਹ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰਿਆਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ, ਜਿਥੋਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਵਲੋਂ ਆਤਮਸਾਤ, ਇਸ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਦਾ ਪਰਚਾਰ ਹੋਣਾ ਸੀ, ਓਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਇਸ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਖ ਕੇ ਵੀ ਅਣਡਿੱਠ ਕਰ ਕੇ, ਪਰਚਾਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਏਨੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਕਿਸੇ ਭਵਨ ਦੀ ਦਿਸ਼ਾ ਵੀ ਬਦਲ ਸਕਦੀ ਹੈ। ਜਦ ਕਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੈਰ-ਪੈਰ ਤੇ ਹੋਕਾ ਦਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਲੋਂ ਬਣਾਏ ਨਿਯਮ ਕਾਨੂਨ, ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਅਟੱਲ ਹਨ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਬਦਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ, ਯਾਨੀ ਜਿਸ ਚੀਜ਼ ਦੀਆਂ ਜੜ੍ਹਾਂ ਧਰਤੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਨ, ਉਹ ਚਲ ਫਿਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦੀ।

ਜੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਿਯਮ-ਕਾਨੂਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਝਾਉਣ ਤਾਂ ਸਿੱਖ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਕਰਾਮਾਤਾਂ ਤੇ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ ਕਰਨ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਆਸਰੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਭੋਲੇ-ਭਾਲੇ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੁਰਾਹੇ ਪਾ ਕੇ ਲੁੱਟਣਾ ਹੈ? ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਿੱਖ ਕਦੋਂ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇਇਸ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਝਣਗੇ?

ਅੱਜ ਤਾਂ ੯੫ % ਤੋਂ ਵੱਧ ਸਿੱਖ, ਕਿਸੇ ਨਾ ਕਿਸੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮੰਦਰਾਂ ਨਾਲ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਨਾਲ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਜੁੜੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ। ਹੱਦ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਪਰਚਾਰਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਦਾ ਕੇਂਦਰ, ਦਰਬਾਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵੀ, ਹਰੀ ਦਾ ਮੰਦਰ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ, ਓਥੋਂ ਦੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਵੀ ਕੇਸਾ ਧਾਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਹਨ। ਕਿਸੇ ਵੇਲੇ ਇਸ ਥਾਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਵੀ ਸਥਾਪਤ ਹੋ ਗਈਆਂ ਸਨ। (ਜੋ ੧੯੨੦ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਟਾਈਆਂ ਗਈਆਂ) ਅੱਜ ਹਾਲਤ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ, ਜੇ ਉਸ ਥਾਂ ਦੁਬਾਰਾ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਸਥਾਪਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਣ ਤਾਂ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਹਟਾਉਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਨਹੀਂ। ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਲਾਣਾ (ਸੰਤ ਸਮਾਜ) ਇਹ ਤਾਂ ਬਰਦਾਸ਼ਤ ਕਰ ਲਵੇਗਾ ਕਿ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਖਾਨਾਜੰਗੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇ। ਸਿੱਖੀ ਸਿਧਾਂਤਾਂ ਦਾ ਵਿਨਾਸ਼ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇ, ਪਰ ਇਹ ਬਰਦਾਸ਼ਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰੇਗਾ ਕਿ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਹੀਣ ਅੜੀ ਤੇ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਮੁੱਛ ਨੀਵੀਂ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇ। ਸਿੱਖ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਵਜੋਂ, (ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ) ਮਾਨਤਾ ਦੇਣੀ ਰੱਦ ਕਰ ਦੇਣ।


ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਹੀ ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰੇ, ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ, ਗੁਰੁ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਸਮਝਣ ਦੀ ਬੁੱਧੀ ਬਖਸ਼ੇ।

Punjabi Version By Amarjit Singh Chandee Ji
and English Commentary by Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"

Note: All errors and omissions in the English section entirely mine. apologies in advance.

(J S Gyani Arshi)

More discussion at this link http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/34187-did-mandir-rotate-bhagat-namdev-ji-5.html

 

[bsc1]

My fellow Sikh's ,I do not wish to offend the sangat that "witnessed" this event.
The Sikh's made great sacrifice's to move away from superstition mumbo jumbo , the event's the sangat saw do have a explanation ( My guess is the ramala was placed upon a metal Khanda in the past and the image came through in sunlight or moisture...just a wild guess.)
Please let's all be logical...just because you can't explain it...it dosn't make it a miracle.

 

[Ambarsaria]

We should not judge others beliefs on miracles that happen. For e.g. Bhagat Namdev when he started to recite the Hari's Virtues, the Dehura turned towards him. Now, don't tell me you don't believe in this miracle.

Shabad by Bhagat Nam Dev in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib where the temple rotated towards his direction as he was not allowed to sit in there.
Laughing and playing, I came to Your Temple, O Lord.
While Naam Dayv was worshipping, he was grabbed and driven out. || 1 ||
I am of a low social class, O Lord;
why was I born into a family of fabric dyers? || 1 || Pause ||
I picked up my blanket and went back, to sit behind the temple. || 2 ||
As Naam Dayv uttered the Glorious Praises of the Lord,
the temple turned around to face the Lord’s humble devotee. || 3 || 6 |

A miracle is important in the eyes of the beholder. Here's a video that will explain it:-

YouTube - A Blind Girl gets back her eyesight at harmandir Sahib Amrit

Namjap/Astroboy ji I find your post insulting to the following,

• Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji
  • Your support for the so called miracle whereby,
    • Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji is invisibly visiting this Gurdwara and does the following,
      • Leaves a fade imprint of the Khanda on a Rumala
      • Gets a supporting cast of a blackbird to show up just in time to confirm that Guru Gobind Singh ji is invisibly visiting
      • The black bird blesses things and drinks the water at the langar
• Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji
  • Through support of the postulation that this is all happening in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji
  • Hijacking by quoting the necessary already covered in the following thread,
    • http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/34187-did-mandir-rotate-bhagat-namdev-ji.html
• Sikh Rehat Maryada

gurimq dI rihxI​

is`K dI Awm rihxI, ikRq, ivrq, gurimq Anuswr hovy[ gurimq ieh hY:-

a) iek Akwl purK qoN Cut iksy dyvI dyvqy dI aupwsnw nhIN krnI[

A) AwpxI, mukqI dw dwqw qy ieSt kyvl ds gurU swihbwn, sRI gurU gRMQ swihb Aqy gurU swihbwn dI bwxI nUM mMnxw[

e) ds gurU swihbwn nUM ieko joq dw pRkwS rUp krky mMnxw[

s) zwq-pwq, CUq-Cwq, jMqR-mMqR-qMqR, Sgn, iq`Q, mhUrq, gRih, rwS, SrwD, ip`qr, iKAwh, ipMf p`ql, dIvw, ikirAw krm, hom, j`g, qrpx, isKw sUq, B`dx, iekwdSI, pUrnmwSI Awid dy vrq, iqlk, jM\U,qulsI, mwlw, gor, m`T, mVHI, mUrqI pUjw Awid Brm-rUp krmW auqy inscw nhIN krnw (not to believe in miracles and the unexplained)[ gur AsQwn qoN iksy An-Drm dy qIrQ jW Dwm nUM Awpxw AsQwn nhIN mMnxw[ pIr, bRwhmx, pu`Cxw, su`Kxw, SIrnI, vyd Swsqr, gwieqRI,gIqw, kurwn, AMjIl Awid auqy inScw nhIN krnw[ hW, Awm vwkPI leI AnmqW dy gRMQW dw pVHnw Xog hY[
​

• Violation of the Gurbani quoting requirements at SPN
  • Incomplete quotes and unclassified translations

I recognize that Guru Gobind Singh ji, Mata Gujri ji, the four Sahijadey, Guru Teg Bahadur ji are not here physically to address posters like you. It is such a shame that they sacrificed their families to later see such degenration through such events and the believers of the same and the promoters and exploiters.

Shame on all such who are maligning Sikhism, the Gurus and their teachings and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. As the saying goes, "who needs an enemy with friends like these".

YouTube - sarbans daniya ve

I wish the moderators to pay much needed editorial intervention to control this idiocy. I know they work much harder and diligently than each of us individually to maintain a wonderful forum.

I don't mind if this thread is closed and a general thread about miracles and the like's place in Sikhism is started.

Sat Sri Akal.
​

 

[tarjitsingh]

My msg to both Jasvinder kaurs ,..Go take Amrit during Baba Sohan Singh Ji's barsi and from now lead the life how Gurji want all sikhs to live their. abide the teachings of Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

 

[tarjitsingh]

Those Who do not believe in miracles that our guru have performed and will go on showing ussudh miracles pls go visit Sri Hermkhud sahib to witness for yourself.
Our living guru Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji will show us the right path.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Simrat kaur ji the following comments for consideration and please are not to be taken personally. My comments will be the same even if I wrote it myself.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh
''har hat bhi tu tu kare'' his devotees

• waheguru is inside, take a good luck, if you cannot find one so close by you will never find it far from you

• or those who are eager to meet wahegurujio
  • wahegurujio is inside you too, you are with it, object is to understand this togetherness within and without
    
  • will always see and hear or will try to see and hear him everywhere
    • these are not miracle to single out as all creation is an endless miracle, by picking on a stain or dirty rumala and a black bird, one is denying the fundamentals of Sikhism and the creator that Gurbani wants us to understand and live in peace with all creation
  • komal hriday waliayan nu hi waheguru har thah dis sakda hai
    • komal hriday is fine and it is a good compassionate attitude. Understanding Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji expects us to exert us a bit and put more effort rather than look for Waheguru here, Baba there or miracle here, this is the path of total rejection of the simplest of messages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji .
  • sharda pathar nu vi rab bana sakdi hai.
    • Again Rab/creator/God is everywhere, sharda has no significance as you are part of creation and so is the pathar, there is no need to make separate Rabs everywhere or you might as well start praying to murtis, pictures, snakes, elephants, monkeys, etc.
  • i wont call it miracle but like in science ''serendipity'' discovered new things
    • If you have ever handled large number of rumalas in a Gurdwara, I have, you will find many stained and dirty ones. The process was to clean them or put them to other use as cloth and not to look for miracles in ghee, parshad, flower, object, or other stains.
  • For me this can be serendipity but attentive mind and focussed heart is needed to discover GOD or his presence around us
    • of course attentive mind and focused heart is needed but not a misguided one and discovery within of the God in you is the first step before you start wandering around.
  • HE IS PRESENT EVERYWHERE IN EACH AND EVERY ATOM, MOLECULE...........
    • So pray tell me what is the difference between the stain portion of the so called miracle rumala and the rest of the rumala. What are the stain molecules

Take this as scene where Guru Nanak ji walked into Malaysia and ran into same people with obviously different names in those times. How highly would he have thought of such characters and their followers, supporters, and the associated crowd and what they are doing or have done?



Now take yourself to Guru Gobind Singh ji’s time and ask how the same people have assimilated the teachings of the previous nine Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.



This idiocy isn’t what any of the Gurus would have looked at kindly or appreciated. This is not rocket science!


If this was an exam testing how the teachings of the Gurus have been followed, all the involved people would have been given failing grade


Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

A SUCKER IS BORN EVERY MINUTE....article in Sikh Chic..is filed under HUMOUR..a most apt place because this incident really is a BIG JOKE and its on US SIKHS !!

The "suckers" are understandable..simply because they are simple minded folks who dont know any better..the REAL ******* are those "who seek to BENEFIT" from this simple-mindedness...these are the SNAKE OIL MERCHANTS..miracle supporters because their finger is in the pie...and "earnings" in the pot of bharams, vehams, superstitions, miracles etc. A Haath dekhan Wallah..ASTROlogist, fortune teller etc will NEVER tell you that all those lines on the palm etc dont actually mean a thing..why should he since his livelihood depends on those very lines and lies...

This is NOT a NEW phenomenon..GURU NANAK JI on his Udasi to hardwaar decided to EXPOSE one such Famous ASTROloger...who sat with closed eyes..deep in meditation so that more simpleminded folks would be trapped in hsi net...Guru ji approached him soft footed and removed his money pot from his front and placed it behind his back. Then Guur Ji coughed softly..the ASTROloger slowly opened his eyes..and instantky saw that his money pot wasnt where it was supposed to be..his brow sweated with worry...he looked quickly here and there...GURU JI SAW through this..and declared..what a famous ASTROloger you are...telling people you KNOW the FUTURE..are a well learned person, have attained this ability due to doing a lot of meditations, naam-japps, mantar japps etc etc..BUT YOU are a FRAUD..you dont even know that your money pot is behind YOU.

I wish this was a laughing matter..as many think it is...its NOT. Its deadly serious.
But not uncommon...just switch on to any INDIAN TV Channel..you will see advertisement after ad on Buree nazar hatao charms, etc being sold for sums like RS 4000 to 5000 where such a sum is PRINCELY to more than 90% of the population. These ads sow FEAR..fear of evil eyes, buree nazar, black magic, etc etc and SELL you "cures".....and GURBANI LIBERATES us form these FEARS..including the "FEAR" (disguised as love/shardha and other fanciful words ) of STAINS magically appearing on rumallahs and blackbirds flying in and out of halls instead of sitting in a pie as in the nursery rhyme !! Many SIKHS also run such web sites, ASTROlogical Horoscopes daily etc etc to profit off such fears and miracles..GURBANI exposes these and sikhs dont beleive in such mental calisthenics just as we dont beleive in the "seeming" reality of live rabbits emerging from magicians hats even in front of TV cameras..such things just DONT HAPPEN...ALL that.... STAINS is not Miracle just as All that Glitters in NOT GOLD.:redturban: