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History Master Tara Singh (in Punjabi)

Discussion in 'Punjab, Punjabi, Punjabiyat' started by spnadmin, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. spnadmin

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  3. spnadmin

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    The article
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  4. valour

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    SO this means that he has been the great leader that Sikh kaum is indebted to. I guess, much of sikh youth hasn't read about the blunders he caused to the Kaum and he would be added to the black list of selfish, deceitful Akalis.
     
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  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Master Tara Singh was neither deceitful nor selfish. It was gandhi, nehru, patel etc who were deceitful, selfish and ultra-communal racists....and the Trusting simple sikh in tara Singh met these machivelean politicians...BUT all their money and offers couldnt BUY OVER the MASTER....until the oppsoition strcuk on the Divide and Rule by bringing in the SANTS from Rajashthan.......till today we have five to 10 SANTS and DERAS in each Village...and SGPC is also the SANT Goondas- Poojarees Committee.....
     
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  6. spnadmin

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    valour ji

    He blundered. He was a manipulator. He was also the only individual who was able to keep together the presence of Sikh governance of Sikh affairs, sustaining it as politically visible and independent of political influences that threatened to dilute Sikh identity. He did not do this to the satisfaction of those seeking an independent Sikh State. True. But to pursue that course of action not only would have, but indeed did, lead to mass persecution by the powerful. And that happened. He understood how to crack a deal and walk away from the table with more than he began with. This type of person is always detested for their pragmatism, and lack of ideological purity. Tara Singh, or any other strong personality, could only be demonized by political flanks that take issue with a stand that is not philosophically consistent with a particular point of view. He was a deal maker, not a philosopher.

    He was controversial.

    The test question has to be "Where are we now?" How independent of Sant Samaj is Sikh governance in India today? How likely is it that continued governance of Sikh affairs will continue without the even more pragmatic deal cutting with the babas who control money and votes. If you/we are looking for a pure and unadulterated agenda put forward and led by an individual with a pure and unadulterated political persona, we are being childish. Today there is not a single party within the Sikh identity movement that is not fighting with everyone else, in India and in the diaspora. The center does not hold, because there has been no center, no cohesive core that stabilizes, since Tara Singh. Instead party A and party B are seeking windows of opportunity to command the future.

    Forgive any offense.
     
  7. Ambarsaria

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    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  8. spnadmin

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    Ambarsaria ji

    I am not sure what difference it makes if people always voted for Congress then. Tara Singh definitely did not strike deals that were ideologically pure. And.... I am also not sure he was the devil incarnate. It has been apparent that martyrdom could not/did not sustain the quom. He made deals with the devil. The devil was in power. When the devil is in power, who else are you going to make deals with? Of course one could say "never bargain" with evil. Politics doesn't work that way. Have there been times in history when, if you did not deal with the devil, your only option was to drive yourself off a cliff? Was Tara Singh looking to forestall a free fall a generation ago? Now today, 2011, what are we doing? Convince me that the quom is not tearing itself apart. Where is the center? Who is crafting it for us? Who is pure?

    btw I am not a proponent of Tara Singh, nor his apologist. I am only trying to point out that the most contemporary dance to weaken Sikhism, and to restore it to its "Hindu roots," is plastered all over this forum, and the dance did not begin until Tara Singh could be effectively neutralized. Who took his place? That answer is also available. There are no heros in this story.
     
  9. Ambarsaria

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    spnadmin ji nothing weakens a culture like continued and repetitive failures. It was a joke when he would conveniently start and stop the agitations knowing full well that history told him he was achieving nothing through this. This and Sikhs became a joke in Punjab as a result. The Sikh core of a proud culture of Sant-Sipahis became a bunch of crappy "Gandhi" crappola in a Sikh persona through him. I don't hate the person. However, I believe that not calling how things were is a denial of reality which will misguide the future too.

    He needed to make a deal with the devil (one such was Partap Singh Kairon who had influence). Instead he showed the divisiveness of Sikhs dealing with Sikhs and made it worst through his so called totally ineffective agitations which I witnessed many in Amritsar. He single handidly demeaned the Sikh psyche which never will recover in Punjab or what is left of it.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  10. spnadmin

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    Ambarsaria ji

    I would almost concede the argument to you, were it not for one lasting, present, and constant reality.

    The political forces that saw fit to undermine Tara Singh's influence of yesterday, today, to use your words, also "conveniently start and stop agitations" that continue to "weaken the Sikh psyche." These are the same political forces that have substituted saffronista crappola in lieu of what you have termed "Gandhi crappola." And the saffonista elements, so to speak, have roots in a political philosophy that confuses political hegemonies (orange) with religious identity. Or to put it another way, politics is their religion and religion is their politics. Sikhs are expendable.

    Ambarsaria ji, Partap Singh Kairon was dead by 1965. His contributions as Chief Minister of Punjab are considerable. He was himself initially popular with Congress, then things changed.


    But we do not know what Kairon's contributions would have been during that period of time when Tara Singh confronted an entirely different set of political challenges. Is it not important to trace the history of central government in Punjab to comprehend the motivations and actions of Tara Singh? And to understand why Akaali Dal attempted to neutralize him? Or did that also have something to do with Gandhian political philosophy?
     
    #9 spnadmin, Aug 22, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2011
  11. Ambarsaria

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    Tara Singh and Partap Singh Kairon shared same time span from 1947 to 1965. I would like to know what Tara Singh did in reference to the above? Master Tara Singh died in 1967 so he had two years not overlapping with Partap Singh Kairon.

    I care less for the corruption in "safforn" that followed after Tara Singh and brought Sikhism to its knees.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Partap Singh kaiorn was the perfect weapon for Nehru to "STEP on and destroy the Sikhs (Akalis under Master Ji). When kaiorn had served his purpose..he was DISCARDED like an old rag doll by nehru...and he died a disilluisoned man..He WASNT Corrupt...but that was used to discredit him simply becasue Nehru had to discredit him somehow..
    I dont think the Akalis asked for the Smallest tineist Punjabi SUBEE that the Centre gave to the Akalis....IF the Centre wished it could have given ALL PUNJABI SPEAKING AREAS..and CHANDIGARH..and Control over its WATERS and Hydro electric DAMS to PUNJAB..These DEMANDS also figured prominenetly till today and caused the Anmandpur Sahib Resolution and 1984...How cna we say that is ALL masters fault ?? ITS DELHIs DESIGN to subjugate and keep Punjab (and sikhs) under its HEEL. After kaiorn, the Centre found BADAL..the Ultimately PERFECT weapon to destroy not only the Akalis BUT SIKHS, SIKHI and PUNJABI all in one stroke...the result is before US...THIS is WHY everyone in India bends over backwards to ENSURE BADAL STAYS !!
     
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  13. Ambarsaria

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    Gyani Jarnail Singh ji with due respect the Sikh destroyer (Indira Gandhi) was embarrassing father and perhaps her father even did not know the devil in her. She was the devil incarnate see the following,

    I don't think Nehru had issues with Kairon as you suggest. What formed under later years of Nehru perhaps definitely did.

    Kairon did the following, do tell me what Tara Singh did,

    I say no more on this.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  14. spnadmin

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    I think I was too hard on Tara Singh to be honest. His accomplishments, to repeat, pertain to his ability to advance the cause of Sikh political interests and a visible, integrated Sikh identity, political and religious.

    1. unflagging effort to promote Sikh religious and cultural identity;

    2. balanced Sikh interests to Indian independence (which earned him in some quarters a negative image, because it seemed ambivalent to some and treacherous to others);

    3. sought political leverage for Sikhs as a religious community;

    4. fused the image of Shiromani Akaali Dal with the identity of the Khalsa;

    5. turned SGPC into an effective organizational structure to advance interests of the panth;

    6. rejected any Congress Party efforts (e.g., Nehru Report) that were adverse to the interests of Sikhs.
     
  15. Ambarsaria

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    spnadmin ji some comments,

    I am very sorry to say that lot of the commentary here is so far removed from ground zero that it is of little relation to realities of the time.

    To each their own opinion but I feel embarrassed in the company of very learned people who should be much better in such than poor me, it bothers and hurts but I suppose I just move on to something else.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  16. valour

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    SPNADMIN ji,

    The above mentioned achievements seem more like a theory in a course text book which is always obscure and concrete. Please cite a few examples, like institutions build up, any fruitful negotiation made. Some say he was a Bhola kind of person and didn't knew intricacies of politics. This is utter non-sense. See for instance Anna Hazare, He is little educated but well-versed in the laws and their implications owing to getting educated from his aides. Anna would not let any loop holes in the agreement that would finally be reached, since he knows the aspirations of the people who are standing beside him. Such are the leaders, not who run away to Shimla and move in and out of hunger strikes at convenience.
     
  17. spnadmin

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    valour ji

    You are asking an important question and it deserves an answer. I have been working toward writing brief comments these days, against my natural inclination to write long replies. Which I suspect people blow off.

    As a matter of moderation, I would like to answer you in detail. But let's see if another forum member, for example Gyani ji, gives his response. Then I will answer in kind.

    Thanks.
     
  18. valour

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    SPNAdmin Ji, It would be great if you could write your "LONG" replies, without waiting for other members to respond. Dont hold your thoughts on the subject. Length of content does not matter if it is really informative. This is a period where we as a kaum have to introspect and analyze our past events, personalities and effects on the present situation of the kaum. I believe its not a discussion between us few individuals but many are reading and hence we must put out as much info out as possible.
    Looking forward to your reply.

    Sat Sri Akal Ji.
     
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  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    This is not a subject for frivolous discussion...and not everyone has the time - for example this time of the year is EXAM time for my students...so i have very little spare time..and soem one else may have other priorities...so Valour Ji..just wait your turn..a reply long/short/intermediate may come soon or maybe not...there is no time frame at SPN. I will definitley answe the questions posed but around end September when i have more free time for research into this period of history. I am aware that Master tara Singh ji is the favourite whipping boy of not a few people today BUT hes not whats made out to be.
    Master tara Singh, Prof sahib Singh face criticism ..and one of the slurs thrown at BOTh these men is the common one.._They were HINDUS before they became SIKHS !! A lot of people dont like Master Ji because he was the Spanner in the works politically and a lot dont like Prof sahib Singh ji becasue he wrote the SGGS darpan and established Gurbani grammar that is a Spanner in the works to many as well (religious derawaad)...and they were BOTH HINDUS before they were SIKH !!
    So please wait Jios....all in good time...mundahug
     
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  20. valour

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    Gyani Ji,

    As your profile shows, you are an elderly person. With due respect, I am not waiting in queue to hear your reply, and Infact, I have not asked for your reply here. you may, only if you like. My priority is that being still involved in my job, I am able to devote some time to think about such events of history.


    Thats not a concern for me. It seems from this statement, SPN is confined around you. If you wont reply, discussion would come to a halt.

    You might consider this discussion to be of no value, but my conviction is that cause of our current problems might lie in some of the decisions made in those times and people we idolise. If we are not critical about such things and people, we might be vulnerable to make such decisions in future and give the reins of our kaum to such leaders, who could fail us.

    So you must not have time to post here since you would be teaching. So little spare time is used by you to give justification to not reply, but actually reply.

    Forgive of any offensive words, words I found offensive from your post, I have welcomed.

    SSA.
     
  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    The FOUR Major Mistakes that Kairon did

    Here's a view on the Four major Mistakes that CM Partap Singh kairon did that reverbrate in Sikh/Punjab politics till today...
    The article is in Punjabi,,

    Mistake One - Kaiorn brought in the SANTS.......and it was such a cancer that it is KILLING Punjab even today.

    Mistake TWO....Kairon started the Maran Wart...Fast Unto DEATH culture into Punjab Politics...

    Mistake THREE - Kairon began the Jatt Bhaapa division....

    Mistake FOUR - Kairon made the Sikhs EMOTIONALLY RULED....Before the kairon period no one had even heard a peep out of the Jathedars...it was as IF the Akal Takhat never even existed..BUT kairon gave rise to so much emotionalism....that the CONGRESSI Darshahn Singh Pheruman who was until his last day condemning Akalis became an overnight hero for fasting unto death...sikhs became so emotionally attached to such questions as who fasted longest who cna do this which leader cna do that...

     

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