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Christianity Many Christians Believe That Salvation Can Only Be Attained through Jesus...

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by panja, Jun 9, 2004.

  1. panja

    panja
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    Many Christians believe that salvation can only be attained through Jesus, what does Sikhism say about it?

    Q: Many Christians believe that salvation can only be attained through Jesus, what does Sikhism say about it?

    A: Sikhs believe that salvation can be attained by anyone who meditates upon the name of God. God is not bound by boundaries, for He is omnipotent. Sikhs believe that Sikhism is the best and simplest, most straightforward way of realizing the present of God, to be One with Him and attain salvation.

    Sikhs do not believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to attain salvation. Before Jesus was born, people who worshipped God attained salvation. Dhruv is one of many worshippers who attained salvation before Jesus was born. If Jesus is the only way to attain salvation that how the people who existed before Jesus attained salvation? After Jesus was born, many people who did not even know that Jesus existed attained salvation in India. In thirteenth and fourteenth century, when people in India did not even know that Europe existed, the worshipper of God attained salvation in India. (Note: Europeans did not discover India until fifteenth century). Among those worshippers that attained salvation are Naamdev, Kabir, Sain, Dhana, Ravidas and many more whose hymns are in the Holy Scripture, Guru Granth Sahib. In their hymns they have written about their longing to meet God, how they worshipped to meet God and finally attained salvation. Furthermore, the way they took to meet God is the same way Jesus showed to Christians, which is to worship and meditate on God, be sinless, renounce greed, lust, pride, anger and arrogance.

    In John 14:5-6 Bible says, “Thomas said to Him, ‘Lord, we do not know where you are going, how do we know the way?’ Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me.’” By this Jesus means, Jesus is the WAY, no one comes to God but through the way showed by Jesus. God did not send Jesus to this world as a person but as a way to reach Him. Now the way Jesus showed Christians is the same way Sikh Gurus showed to the Sikhs. Gurus are to Sikhs what Jesus is to Christians. Our paths are the same but different teachers. It is like we both are taking physics class, one in Arkansas and the other in California. We are covering the same material but are being taught by different teachers. Jesus showed the way to meet God, this way has been described very clearly and thoroughly in Guru Granth Sahib. The way has been described in so much detail that after reading it, one knows what he has to do in order to meet God. So, Sikhs suggest everyone to read the Holy Scripture, Guru Granth Sahib. The scripture does NOT emphasizes on converting to a particular religion but shows the way to meet God and attain salvation insignificant of the religion one belongs to. Anyone who reads Guru Granth Sahib becomes enlightened and begins to understand God and His creations.


    http://www.realsikhism.com/faq/salvationjesus.html
     
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  3. harsimiritkaur

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    The suffering of Jesus is symbolic of God's patience, waiting for us to accept his wisdom. What is the meaning of Jesus is the only way? It is not the crucifixion or the emotional high one gets by bribing God with a human sacrifice. It is the meaning that saves, the same message that Guru Granth Sahib teaches. You can't bribe God. If you want to meet God then you must accept His hukam, all the natural laws of the universe. God does not need bloodshed to forgive us. The New Testament says it is by God's mercy only. Tera kita ja to nahin.... Mundavenee 1429. Jesus is the only way only means that the grace of God is the only way. Gur prasad. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God. What is the word of God? It is the gian wisdom of truthfulness. Jesus preached it. Guru Nanak preached it, Bhagat Ravidass preached it. The Word of God is information on how to be successful. God gave us the gift of existence. When we learn the Kindgom of God that Jesus preached to come into us, this means that we should accept Hukam razaee chalna, Nanak likhya naal. People two thousand years ago would not have been ready for Guru Nanak's teachings. But the idea of sacrifice of Jesus is similar to "Variya na java ek vaar, and Hao vari jio, and Nanak beghoyad jan tera tere chachran pa khak., and jan Nanak. Nanak, like Jesus was committed to promote living truthful by accepting the Kingdom of God makhut sikdaria, malkhut shamayim. In God's eyes, there is no religion, only truthfulness. Sikhism is the science of truthfulness and living by it.

    Jesus is the only way, not His body, but what he preached, that we should accept God's hukam. The Word of God is Gur Gian which all people need to know how to function in life in order to survive, be healthy, and successful. Jesus did not intend on extreme fundamentalism that he as a form is the only means of salvation. No, I think he meant the wisdom of God that is in him we can benefit from. The same information of success is modernized for modern man to easily understand. Gurbani is not a book format, but Gur Gian living Guru, and God is the ultimate Guru who teaches all. Virley bujhai. Rare is the one who understands.
    King Solomon was asked for anything from God, as the prophet in his days told him. Solomon asked for wisdom. Nathan the prophet said, "Since you did not ask for riches, I will give you .... (greater blessings). King Solomon made a large kingdom, but his descendants messed up the kingdom because they did not have Gur gian in them. Guru Granth Sahib teaches, "Bin Gur Gian, kehe na paya? Without Gur Gian, who can acquire success?
    Don't get so hung up on physical forms as the only way. If you have millions of dollars and don't know how to run a business, you will fail. If you have the information, then you will be successful. Somewhere in the Old Testament it says, Ko amar Adonai Tsva'oth, dirshooni vechyeh, "Thus says the Lord of Hosts, dirshooni seek my and you will live. Darshan dekh jivan gur tera, puran karam hoey Prabh mera. "Gazing upon your blessed vision I live." Ang 782. Darash in Hebrew means to look deep into something, to seek true wisdom, to pursue righteousness by looking into something beyond one's own egotistic perspective.
    Neither Jesus nor Guru Nanak can save you. Neither can Guru Granth Sahib. Then what saves you? The gian that is taught will guide you, but you must learn it in order to experience the salvation God has already offered to you, the bohit boat across the bhavjel ocean of our frustrations. Instructions and wisdom don't save you. Only God saves you. How? By accepting the hukam of God, by learning the teachings of God, buy darshan Guru. Godly people learned from nature and express to us. We tend to twist or misunderstand and become greedy, but exploiting people and brainwashing them like evil Brahmans do. Our response to God's initial invitation to meet Him is what saves us. God gives us the ability through his grace. Tera kita ja to nahin Meno jog kitoee. Me nirguniyarey ko gun nahin. What You have done for me, I cannot fully understand...I am unworthy with no value true compassion is from you. Mundavenee.
     
  4. FireStorm

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    Jesus was great - but when he was on the cross, even he questioned God, on what had he done wrong to deserve this !!

    A simple glance reveals that sikh Gurus and even Shaheeds always accepted every atrocity as the will of God, like Guru Arjan Dev Ji.

    AND anyway I firmly belive that christinaity which came out was not what Jesus actually preached. His followers did corrupt the religion.
     
  5. devinesanative

    devinesanative
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    Yeah , sure salvation can only be attained through JESUS. Nothing wrong in it .

    There is only one bright star on this galaxy which very necessary for the survival of all the organisms on the planet Earth .

    Some call that big and huge bright star as SUN , Some Call it Suraj or some by any other name .

    but that way with different names , will not make as make as many suns or moons as many earths .

    Whether you call it JESUS , Waheguru , Ram, Sita , or any other name yaar , "Kuch Farak Nahin Painda hai".
     
  6. devinesanative

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    When you want to talk to your beloved ones , your main intention is to speak to them and listen to them , it doesn't matters what gadget you are using , you can use mobile phone , land line phone , internet , mails or any other mode of communication.

    So are the names ...........
     
  7. harsimiritkaur

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    Jesus never asked God what he had done wrong while he was hanging on the cross. He did ask, "Elohi Elohi, lama sabakhthani." Another gospel says, "Eli Eli, lama zavachthani?" translations are, "My God, My God, why have you deserted me." The other one is "My God, My God, why have you offered me."
    If you read Sri Raag, there are many times written, "Hao vari jio" I am an offering sacrifice (for the sake of propegating Guru's message of truthfulness). Guru Nanak said, "Variya na java ek vaar" I am not even worthy of being a sacrifice even once. (Jap Ji Sahib).
    The night before his crucifixion, Jesus was up all night contemplating, and he said. "If it be your will, let this cup (of sacrifice) pass from me. Some people think this means he did not want to be sacrificed, and that he prayed God would send someone else. I think he meant the same thing as Guru Nanak, "Variya na java ek var." Jesus was praying he probably meant, "If it is not Your will that I offer myself for the sake of truthfulness, then I will nto be full of ego to make me disappointed." He was willing to suffer without any ego. He never asked if he did anything wrong. He did not do anything wrong, and the people who tortured him were blinded by their ego, because he said, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they are doing.
    When we lack Gur Gian in our thoughts, then we do not know what we are doing. We are suckers to our five vices. We are blinded from walking in truthfulness. We are in a false perspective of reality, so we make mistakes, we miss the mark "sin". Jesus, torturers thought they were doing it all by themselves, when it was the natural laws of the universe that allows their bodies to operate to torture or to rescue. All is because of the grace of God. But they thought they could kill him. THEY COULD NOT KILL HIM according the the Biblical Text, because He gave up his ghost. He died within a couple of hours. Death by crucifixion takes several days, and one dies of suffication first. The hands and feet are stretched apart and the legs slightly bent so that one can push the feet up a little to catch breath. Eventually one's legs tire out and then one sufficates. Jesus died in a few hours, unlike all other crucifixions. He willingly dies. All others wished they could die faster. The Biblical text also mentions that he never opened up his mouth in anger, nor cried, other than his conversation with God and a few others nearby.
    Anyway, the Bible says that whosoever calleth upon the name of the Lord will be saved. This means one who has Naam is already experienced salvation. It is not the ritual of calling any diety's name, but it is all about having name. God does not need us to pronounce any syllables for salvation. Even the deaf and mute can have naam without speaking. Accepting all the natural laws of the universe, accepting hukam, Jesus said, "Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
     
  8. harsimiritkaur

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    Jesus' followers did not corrupt the faith. Those ignorant and wicked ones that claimed to be followers were actually followers of their own ego and pride and greed. POLITICS and domineering control for gain. If you read the Apocalypse or Revelation, only one of the seven churches remained faithful, and that one was the Church of Philadelphia. Philadelphia in Greek means "City of Brotherly Love." similar to Sadhsangat or sat sangat.

    If you study the history of the development of Christianity, you will see that today the Sikhs are going through similar experiences. Agents pretending to be Sikhs and teaching against Guru Granth Sahib, greedy granthis and raagis. Few are actually religious. Stealing golak money, selling USA sponsorship letters to India, not allowing sangat's children to do kirtan. Granthies selling Akanda Paath duties or only giving more duties to people from their own village. Fake Baba Ji Saints that will not eat the food you cook if you are not amritdhari, but they will accept your money.
     
  9. devinesanative

    devinesanative
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    Each and every community , religion , cult or society has two types of people in it .

    both follow their respective religions but in a different way .

    There is one sort of people who are religious but no one can predict whether they are religious but their actions speak , like serving the community , doing good to others , charity etc .


    There is another sort of people who are extremely religious , but in the real sense they are not...

    They are "CHAAPLUS" , "CHELAS" ,"CHRONIES" , "NARADS" , "DALALS" , "CHAMCHAAS" of religion who speak very eloquently , that you at once start believing them....


    The corruption is spread by such 2nd type of peoples only ......
     
  10. Amarpal

    Amarpal
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    Dear Readers,

    The beliefs are views which the holder thinks that they are true. They may or may not be true. any individual is free to hold her or his own set of beliefs.

    With love and respect for all.

    Amarpal Singh
     
  11. Jass Singh

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    PANJAJI

    I have much to say but will keep it brief. You ask a very important question and I have read all the thread. You give your answer, which is quite in line with Sikh theology & thought. You also analyze the Christian belief that Jesus is the only way.

    Let me stop right here and tell you that neither Jesus nor the Bible says that He is the only way. This might come as a shock but it is true. You do not need to believe in Jesus to attain salvation if you can live a sinless life from the second you are born till the second you die. It is only sin that separates mankind from communion & fellowship with God & bars him/her from entering God’s glorious sin-free and most Holy Heaven. The problem is that EVERY human being has sinned. The Holy Bible says: “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (ROM 3:23). The Holy Bible also says: “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us…If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him (God) a liar, and His word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8,10).

    You list a number of people who you claim achieved salvation. Unless you can show me from the pages of the SGGS that this is an absolute fact, I cannot take your word. When it comes to Truth, you are guilty until proven innocent i.e. any assertions made are suspect until you give reasonable evidence to prove the veracity of those claims.

    In John 14:6 Jesus did not say that he was a “Way-shower.” Neither did He say that He was “A” way but “THE” Way. Jesus made an absolutely EXCLUSIVE claim, which would exclude all other ways including Sikhism.

    Jass Singh
     
  12. harsimiritkaur

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    I think people are misunderstanding the words of Jesus. No human form can save another. God cannot save anyone either unless one accepts His help. One needs to understand the meaning of "salvation." It is not a phenomena that happens after death. It is peace of mind, contentment, knowing that if you are walking in the kingdom of God, accepting God's hukam, that this is a good start. What is salvation? Do your really believe in a fiery Hell, or do you believe that the Hell experience is compared to one of the most painful ways of suffering, burning to death. Emotional pain is more painful that physical pain.

    Didn't Jesus humbly pray, "God if it be Your will that this cup pass from me." He was showing humbleness. Jesus is not a chauvinistic savior full of conceit. He is the only way mean what he was teaching, to follow the Kingdom of God. Hukam razaee challna... Thy kingdom come.

    Why do people believe in the Bible? Most of them do because they were conditioned to from either their parents or charismatic brainwashing preachers. I know Jews believe in Torah because their ancestors experienced the miracles themselves, and their Oral Law Torah Be'al Peh tradition goes all the way back to Mt. Sinai, the giving of the Law of Moses. Christians do not believe in an Oral Law. They only believe what is written, but they do believe their Church Follwers that preach, "The New Testament is also part of the Bible, and the Hebrew Scriptures, too." Christians beleive in Bible because they have an oral tradition passed down from generation to generation, but they deny Oral Law oral tradition so to speak.
    Believing in Bible or Guru Granth Sahib does not save. Merely believing anyone can do, but if one acts on what is taught, "Be doers of the word." That is a good beginning to experience salvation. Many Christians emotionally believe in Jesus, but they do not follow his teachings. Many Sikhs bow to Guru Granth Sahib, but they do not even have an interest in studying the Shabads. Most of them are only interested in rituals and making money. Well, a lot of Christians preachers are doing the same. They need to stop putting Jesus back on the Cross and start practicing what he taught. Sikhs likewise need to stop the Brahmanistic pseudo Sikh teachings and get back to the original Sikh philosophy. Christianity and Sikhism have much in common, but a fanatically Christian fundamentalist would say that Satan copies the Holy things. Satan is merely our ego, "Sehes sianapan lakh hoen ta ek na chaley naal" Thousands of tricks, yet none of them will work." Jap Ji Sahib. Salvation is not done by works, neither is tricking reality. The salvation experience can only come when one acknowledge the hukam of God control all of reality. Jesus submitted to this, and so did Guru Nanak, "Nanak bughoyad jan tura tere chakran pa khak." Nanak humble is a servant to You, God, and to the dust of the feet of His slaves." (Tilang Mehela 1 Ghar 1 ang 721) Here slaves could mean either those who are true to God, or could mean the many natural laws that obey God's command.
     
  13. devinesanative

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    beliefs and views are two different things .. Views may be private and personal , but belief becomes belief when any activity is observed repeatedly in a same human being or in different human beings.


    Suppose a person who has not seen a sikh , but sees a sikh for the first time , then the second time the other person , then the third time the other person , it automatically becomes a belief that a person having such and such traits is a Sikh.
     
  14. shearwater

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    One scripture from the New Testaments says, "Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved."
     
  15. shearwater

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    Salvation cannot be attained by human activity or effort but is the free gift of God through faith in Jesus Christ. The person wanting to be at peace with God confesses his sins. God through his grace grants forgiveness. The person's conscience is awakened to his need of Christ and is thereby granted forgiveness and is adopted into the family of God. In other words, he is saved.
     
  16. pk70

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    Shearwater ji, Bittu ji and other Christian Brothers and Sisters !
    I will be very happy to see all Christians being saved by Lord Jesus, leave Sikhs alone, they have Guru and original Guru teachings unlike Christians who are taught some thing not actually written by Lord Christ himself. When Lord Christ shows up again, invite us, we shall honor that holy man heartily because he is one of numerous enlightened ones our Creator created.:)
     
  17. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Shearwater ji

    Terms of Service on SPN forbid proselytizing or doing missionary work. At SPN we welcome discussions of different points of view and comparisons of religions. However, the scale has been tipped in this thread from discussion to preaching. Please do not continue doing this. aad0002
     
  18. BhagatSingh

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    Before we talk about Jesus, we must answer this question. Did Jesus exist?
     

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