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Lust. I don't get it.

Discussion in 'General' started by namritanevaeh, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    I have a major problem with the statement that lust is bad. Why? Because I think it is very badly misinterpreted. People sit and pass judgement on an unwed couple who are happy and who are sexually active, who are consenting adults, who feel they’re doing what’s best for them. They make comments about how lust is bad, you can’t have sex if you’re not married, etc. and then, they turn around and make judgements about a woman wanting to leave a bad marriage. A marriage where she feels controlled and abused by her husband. They tell her it’s a “shame on their family”. The woman has zero “chemistry” with her husband, hates having sex with him, feels repulsed by him, but it’s “ok” because they’re married. Not only “ok” but she HAS TO stay in it. In my mind that is so incredibly BACKWARDS that it’s not even funny. It’s totally completely messed up.

    Lust is “bad” when we’re talking about child pornography. About men catcalling women from a construction site. About someone getting someone drunk and forcing them to have sex. Rape (and yes, that includes women forcing men too, for their own needs and desires). However, telling a woman she has to stay in a marriage where she FEELS RAPED is feeding the bad type of lust in our culture! It’s condoning it, pardoning it, and making it accepted and “normal”. I've been in that marriage and it is absolutely horrible. It's only after I got out and discovered what it's like to have chemistry with my partner, that I started to heal. If anything, I wish I had had MORE sex before marriage (not to be super promiscuous but to at least have some experience) because I might not have been damaged by 18 years of "bad lust" from my ex husband in a marriage that was like a wrecking ball to my sexuality.

    Lust is actually good in general too. You lust after the body you want to procreate with and that is entirely normal. We would die out as a species if we didn’t procreate and lust is one way for us to accomplish that. Sure people twist it lots of ways but bottom line, if two people want to be together then they should. We, as a society, created marriage. Some societies don't have that ceremony. Many animals are not monogamous (some are...) and some cultures on earth aren't either. Marriage is man made. We did not create lust, or the need to have babies. It is inborn. We were created with it. And if we are born with the ability to take pleasure from a sexual act, and yet we deny that pleasure because of some cultural societal creation called marriage, we are denying our very existence. What we were MEANT to do. And I am 110% convinced that if there’s a god somewhere up there, that s/he is also shaking his or her head over the confusion WE have created over HIS/HER *gift* of “lust”.

    I think it's really important to realize just how much society’s stigmas can be damaging to society as well…to the individual members who make up society. If we stop looking down on people, and start celebrating who they are, wholeheartedly and without cherry-picking and choosing, then we will ultimately be a better healthier society, as our members feel acceptance and freedom to really BE who they are and embrace it fully.
     
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  3. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Dear Namrita bheinji

    I'm really sorry you had such a bad experience with your previous marriage. But also, I happy that you're free of it now and enjoying life :) I think I share your sentiments about lust.

    The lust issue has two sides; the Indian cultural side, and the Sikh philosophy side.

    I can't really comment on the Indian cultural side, because I am not of that culture.

    From a Sikh philosophy point of view, lust, anger, greed, pride and attachment are the five thieves that steal our focus away from Guru. These are not simply sexual desire, getting mad, wanting something nice, being happy with your work, or loving your pets. It is burning, blinding lust, rage, greed at the expense of others, arrogant pride in yourself, and possessive attachment without balance of knowing nothing is actually yours.

    There is a healthy level of these feelings. Without desire, people won't want to be intimate with each other. Without a healthy measure of anger, we can lack the motivation to stand against injustice. Without being proud of our achievements we can fall short of our true potential. And so on for the other vices.

    I believe this is reflected in Sikh practice, with the householder's lifestyle. If it wasn't, then Sikhs would be renunciates.

    I can speak from personal experience on the negative effects of lust. I have been blinded by lust, when all I could think about was the object of my lust. It has led me to make a terrible life decision (in this case my lust tricked me into marrying someone I was less than compatible with in the long term), and it has at other times overwhelmed my mind and interfered with my ability to work efficiently and effectively. Not to mention that Naam was nowhere to be found in my mind.
     
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  4. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I think lust is bad, desire is good, but when desire turns to lust, then nothing else is important other than satisfying that lust, I think with lust all reason goes out of the window.With desire you are still capable of rational thinking, I think you are talking about desire, rather than lust. What is lust is what your husband felt, basically, no thought of love, of friendship, of connection, just penetration.
     
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  5. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    Thank you very much both Ishna & Harry for your input. I guess I can see what you mean by it being better to call it desire sometimes but really, I hear it so often. Guy getting intimate with girl, but not married, he's "lost in lust". Not necessarily. At least not IMO or IME...

    And yes. My ex husband lusted after me and yeah it was basically evil because if he started the moves and I dared say no, he was miserable to live with, grouchy all day. I ended up putting up with so much bad sex over so many years just to have a slightly less grouchy spouse. :-/

    Ps. Gotta say I do love that Sikhs mostly keep their men intact. Besides lacking in chemistry between us that was probably the other big issue with my exH. Glad I know better now.
     
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  6. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    namritanevaeh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for sharing your sad but heart warming story. This is the kind of domestic abuse that is not uncommon in our Punjabi culture. In fact it is worldwide in all different cultures to a certain extent. This is nothing but a rape by a person who is supposed to be your mate in all sense of the word.

    I hope you find someone in your life who respects you as a person so both of you can cultivate and respect each other's desires. We all need a friend especially the one we share our bed with.

    Good luck in your journey and take care.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  7. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    I have. Sad thing is, also due to culture, we may never be together, even though we're perfect for each other. :-(
     
  8. Ishna

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  9. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    First off I'm the (almost) divorced gori who is older who has kids.

    Second he's in an unhappy marriage (by North American standards, considered "legally separated" for several years but I know no such definition really exists in Indian culture :-( ). Sadly unlikely to be able to easily get out of it. It's the kind of sad love story you see in movies. :-(
     
  10. Ishna

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    Just out of curiosity, why can't you both carry on a relationship regardless of your legal married status?

    As long as you protect yourself legally, perhaps get some legal advice to make sure his (ex)wife can't come back on you, and you don't want to get married together, then life is what it is.

    *fist bumps her fellow almost divorced gori bhainji*
     
  11. Parma

    Parma United Kingdom
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    It depends on what you have based you're relationships on. If it's purely lust then the extreme of that would be a pornstar. If it's a relationship based on substance then again alot needs to be considered. Animals just act on impulse but as humans we are given minds to respond to matter in a positive or negative mode either you are an evolved human complex or a primitive being the experiences of life enables us interaction with the cosmos in ways and experiences beyond common sense. In any case enjoy life. To develop that knowledge is the fascination of life and living a truly fulfilling life is to explore you're soul and depths of desire to qualm the interpretation of thinking to absolute peace by definition of wholesome thinking in a sense a guidance I find from the fruitfulness of the sublime words of the Guru Granth Sahib ji. In the end after it is all said an done realistically all you are doing is defining your individual self and your perspective of substance hence your own worth and value or importance and how that interaction is with the rest of nature it brings it's own unique value and destiny. Normally the world asks; Who are you? Or as I would normally say; Who am I? YOU CAN IMAGINE THE RESPONSES Lol!
     
    #10 Parma, Jul 24, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2015
  12. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    Thanks Ishna bhenji. I don't feel I can share much more on a public forum so I will stop for now. :-/
     
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  13. Ecumenigal

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    I saw a saying going around on Facebook: "Just because someone desires you doesn't mean he values you." Perhaps a good definition of "lust" is "physical desire without sincere respect and caring".

    I was raised by a single mother who had left a conservative religion and then immersed herself in feminism. To her, being sexually liberated meant feeling free to treat sex as simply a pleasurable act that you agree to share with someone. Given this upbringing, I did the same. Through experience I came to the conclusion that sex is so sacred and so powerful (with an equal potential to be damaging or spiritually enriching) that it deserves to be within the context of 100% commitment. However, that's easy for me to say, since I already have the advantage of being experienced. From bad experience, I have a radar for the types of behaviors that are clues that someone will be disrespectful or profane in bed. I have no idea what it would be like to be a virgin and choose a marriage partner. But I did reserve sex for marriage with my current husband and it means the world to me. Given that sex makes babies (no matter how careful we are with birth control) and can transmit diseases, it seems that sex outside of marriage can create such life-ruining consequences for an unmarried person, that it deserves a marriage commitment. But we can never judge the circumstances of another, or think we are sure what we would choose if we were in another's shoes. When I hear your story, I celebrate your relationship.

    All of my adult step-children have girlfriends/boyfriends who they are lovers with. I remember the sincere love and commitment-for-now that I shared with lovers at that age. I consider their lovers to be family-for-now because I honor the depth of their connection. Everyone chooses their values according to their personal experience. At least that's the culture in mainstream secular America. It has its down-sides. It's a fairly chaotic culture with all sorts of support for "sin and debauchery". But there is a beautiful freedom in the ethic that it is everyone's right to choose their own values and lifestyle and that we should all try not to pass judgment on one another.
     
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  14. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    <<Perhaps a good definition of "lust" is "physical desire without sincere respect and caring". >>

    I get what you mean. In this case, we have almost the opposite issue. We are both exceedingly attracted to each other, to the point that it's bloody hard to say no (I've been more successful at it and yet...why should I have to "babysit his morals & beliefs" when they're not exactly how I view them?!) but he keeps putting a distance between us physically such as going out to the library to study (in public) and then risking coming back over to my house where we're alone, then re-insisting on not meeting alone for a while and I know he values my friendship greatly because he's told me as much, and continued it. So while we have a real chemistry together, he's quite obviously not only just wanting my body. He asks my opinions on things, gets me to help out planning events, etc.
     
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