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Kirpan during Air Travel

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by jasbirsingh, Sep 3, 2006.

  1. jasbirsingh

    jasbirsingh
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    i need ur help ,
    i m an amrit dhari .residing in india.next month i m on company tour & the mode of travel is by air.so can any body tell me wether i can carry my shri sahib(kirpan) along with me during the flight .please help me as if i m not allowed to keep shri sahib along with me,i think should go by train or withdraw my name.
    Jasbir singh
     
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  3. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Re: kirpan during airtravel

    Dear Jasbir Singh


    I appreciate your feelings abouot the Kakaars .

    But in practicle there is no problem parting with kakaars for a valis reason and all peopel do this even SGPC cheifs do so for their air Travel and It is absolutely Alright

    I wish you best of luck for your business venture !


    Jatinder Singh
     
  4. DragonKhanda

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    Re: kirpan during airtravel

    You have to do an Ardaas first; Whenever you have such a question no one can answer, There is no one between the Amritdhari and God. Ask God for his forgiveness that you are doing this to him when you swore in your oaths. Set out rules and stick by them, like you will so much paat of this a day. Like 5 malas of Mool Mantr a day. If you could just take them off, what was the point of taking an oath not to?

    Just bacause someone else does it does not give you right. You dont know if they did an Ardaas or what! Understand the whole story before you go displaying opinions.

    Sat sri Akal
     
  5. drkhalsa

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    Re: kirpan during airtravel

    Dear Friend


    Sorry if my opinion offeneded you
    Unfortunately this forum is about giving your opiniion according to understanding given to you by Akal so in my case surely i can be less than yours so forgive me


    Now about Kakkars I still Believ that the physical parting with Kakkars for temprrary practicle reason does not matter at allas it is not Jnaeu .

    We should all try to make it possible for all Amritdhari to have this previlage of keeping all kakars all the time , this fight should go on but till this happen one should miss on practicle issues of life and which parting with kakaars is not targeted to oprees you in any manner

    About Bibi Jagir Kaur ji she more colorful issues in her stride like criminal case for killing her pregnant daughter . and we have one respected Sikh MLA who refused to part with Kirpan and remained outside Parliament all the term, sacrifising the basic interest of his post .


    So when airlines tell you part with Kirpan then they are acting mughals to opress you or degrade your religion . they are just making it sure that every body feel and is safe.




    Thnx


    Jatinder Singh

    thnks
     
  6. MKAUR1981

    MKAUR1981
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    Re: kirpan during airtravel

    WJKK WJKF. Jasbir, I'm not an Amritdhari, but my mother-in-law who is was asked to remove her Kirpan at Delhi airport. (London Heathrow were fine and let her wear the Kirpan). By the time we reached London, the airline had lost it. However, my mother-in-law had already decided that she would go back to the Gurdwara and presented herself to the Panj Pyare and took Amrit again.
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: kirpan during airtravel

    i agree with dr khalsa .temporary removel of kakkars for practical reason is o.k.if amritdhari people cannot
    even travel by air then how could we expect more sikhs to become amritdhari
     
  8. jasbirsingh

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    thanx freinds for ur veiws,please think into the matter again.at this time i think i should spent afew more hours in train rather than making myself rest less inside.

    i m sure i will get some better option .thanks again for ur concern.
     
  9. Arvind

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    jasbirsingh veer,

    What about an international travel, where this rule is enforced.

    Regards.
     
  10. HannahBanana

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    What about school? We are not allowed to bring so called "weapons" to school.
     
  11. MKAUR1981

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    1) Firstly, please do not call the Shri Sahib/Kirpan "so-called" weapon. :mad:

    2) Secondly, it depends on what school you go. Certain schools allow them and have restrictions e.g have a small Kirpan.
     
  12. Arvind

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    :) Many schools, offices, governments allow sikhs to go with 5Ks. Wherever it is not allowed, sikhs are fighting their ways out. You may like to look at court verdicts in which school parents/teachers objected, but court favoured towards sikh rights.
     
  13. CaliforniaSeeker

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    I think what HannahBanana Ji meant is that they are not allowed to have anything that the school authorities consider a "weapon". Unfortunately, many people who don't know about Sikhi see a kirpan and think "dagger" or "knife" or "weapon". Over the past few years, I've seen many reports from SALDEF (the Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund) about similar cases. As I remember, in most of them, SALDEF has been able to educate the local authorities and come to agreements that allow Sikhs to carry their kirpans without compromising the authorities' concerns about safety.

    HannahBanana Ji -- from the reading I've done on the subject, my understanding is that kirpans come in a range of sizes, from quite large to very small. Some Sikhs choose to wear kirpans that are so small they're almost purely symbolic (I can't imagine using a 1-inch-long kirpan to defend anyone). In most of the discussions I've read, the participants eventually agreed that it's an individual decision.
     
  14. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    to all

    HB is just a 14 year old girl who is embracing sikhism.she also said that her mother is not supporting her.i don't think she can convince school authorities about kirpan.
     
  15. HannahBanana

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    California Seeker, thank you, that is what I meant. I do not see it as a weapon. When I said "so called" I meant it as others might react.

    And kds, true, which is why I am having trouble with this.
     
  16. HannahBanana

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    Anyway, would it be possible for me to wear a small kirpan necklace?
     
  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    yes you can wear 1 inch kirpan as necklace.
     
  18. HannahBanana

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    Great! Thanks!
     
  19. BaljeetSingh

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    I always wondered about this sensitive question. I travel by air every week within USA and I do not carry kirpan of any size when I travel. I have never been able to find a convincing answer to this question.

    Kirpan size does not matter (anymore). It used to be 3 feet long and then British minatuarized it to 6 inches...and now in USA, kirpan of 2-3 inches is allowed in schools. Carrying 1 inch kirpan as necklace is common. That day is not too far when people will just tattoo kirpan on their body and claim to be complete Sikh.
     
  20. thecoopes

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    Good morning all lovers of peace.

    Can someone please explain in simple straightforward terms how this Kirpan came to hold such importance to the Sikh faith?
    Did Sikh always have this weapon?
    When was it incorporated into the spirit of the Sikh tenets as an article of faith?

    Also for the mind of a cynical Westerner who sees religion as an all pervasive means of control, do you not think that all religions could dig into their beliefs and come up with unacceptable practises that would be offensive or dangerous to other non believers?

    For example, here in Britain we appear to hear nothing but the complaints of Muslims who demand the right to do things we find offensive and yet we cannot refuse there demands as these are part of their beliefs!
     
  21. Arvind

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    Dear John,

    Sikhi arrived when forcible conversions were on, and there was little freedom of religion.

    Sikh Gurus raised the voice against the social injustices in various forms. Finally, Guru Gobind Singh brought Khalsa forward with a msg like - when all peaceful means fail, it is ok to raise a sword. First importance is ALWAYS to peace, but when all means to bring brain back to head fail, it is ok to do the needful.

    I tried my best, may be other members could explain better.

    Thanks for asking.

    Regards, Arvind.
     

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