Kaur Power

[Astroboy]

Mai Jee,

The links are provided by Amarsanghera, not me.

But I agree with Aad Ji that old women suffer the most. Most women outlive their spouses and therefore have to make sure that there are enough savings to last them a lifetime. Thus, seeing a woman to be selfish in nature is the wrong viewpoint. It's a survival trait passed on from one generation to another.

 

[kds1980]

ads1980 ji

You are right, I did misunderstand. I spent the whole night thinking about what you said. (One legacy for me of surviving Delhi '84 is insomnia.)

I still believe most women are exhausted, overworked, holding down jobs as well as the lion's, I mean lioness' share of work in the home. I think about my own home life when our son was a young child. Every morning and evening we had our special time together when I took care of his kesh, washing, combing, tying, patka-ing. During this time, he would leisurely tell me whatever was on his mind, and, believe me, young kids have plenty on their minds. I well remember the day he said to me, "Mommy, when you and Daddy can't figure something out, you ask Guru Ji. Can I do that, too?" Of course, he could! I had to bring in a little stool for him to stand on. I remember how carefully he opened Guru Ji, and how slowly and carefully he read the Gurmukhi - and how he insisted on reading it himself with no help from me. I hadn't asked him his question, that was really none of my business, and he was satisfied with the answer he received, the big smile on his face told me that.

A lovely story, you say, from 1975. So what does that have to do with today?

Just this: I was able to stay at home and raise our child. Don't get me wrong, I worked my tush off on our little family farm while Mani, my husband, was in town being a doctor, but I was always there. Even in my generation, though, motherhood was being discredited as an occupation. As time has gone on, this trend has accelerated until today, the stay-at-home mom is considered almost a miscreant. I wonder how much energy I would have had as a teacher of Sikhi had I had to hold down a job, take care of the home AND raise our child.

The young women today did not have the upbringing I had, nor the upbringing my son had. They really have no idea how to bring up Gursikh children. I am not blaming anyone, these are just the facts.

I loved being a mother, that's just my thing. I realise not all women want to be stay-at-homes with the kids. Nor are many able to, financially. That can work out OK, but only with the whole-hearted cooperation of the husband. The married couple must really work together as a team. None of this 50-50 nonsense. Each must give 100%. Oh, dear, I'm not a marriage counsellor, just a 56 year old lioness with some experience.

Mai ji

I agree with you that women are overworked.But this problem is not only the problem of sikh women only.It is problem faced by women of whole world and India it is much more

But there some reasons for which women themselves have to blame for it
In India every working woman and her parents want very highly educated and successful men.Majority of times you will see a woman doctor with doctor husband an executive woman with execuative husband.Now it is obvious that a highly succesful man is not going to help a woman in house hold chores.A successful man could marry any girl which he likes whether she is house wife,less educted less earning.But majority of times succesful women only goes for successful men.So sorry 21 st century women cannot get all these things
If they want real equality then they should start marrying less succesful less earning men
who could help them in house work.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

kds ji

that's a really strage logic

<<If they want real equality then they should start marrying less succesful less earning men
who could help them in house work.<<

why do you equate success, earning more with spending less time with family?


i really do'nt understand but you do seem to have a mental block for educated,modern women.

oops, i am being judgemental, but could not help it.

 

[kds1980]

why do you equate success, earning more with spending less time with family?


i really do'nt understand but you do seem to have a mental block for educated,modern women.

Amar there are only 24 hours in a day and all people have limited stamina its obvious That highly successful cannot spend as much time with family as less successful.

For example a teacher whose job is of just 7-8 hours could be at home at 3 pm could spend much more time with family than CEO whose works demand 12 hours in office.

Now sometime's I feel that Modern educated liberals just live in their imaginery bookish world
which is not possible in reality .Now wonder family system is collapsed in europe

oops now I am judgemental

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<If they want real equality then they should start marrying less succesful less earning men
who could help them in house work.>>

hours are our own making

no one passed a writ that there must be only 24 hours

Have you heard of the concept of 25th hour in the day?

<<For example a teacher whose job is of just 7-8 hours could be at home at 3 pm could spend much more time with family than CEO whose works demand 12 hours in office.>>

this either implies that you mean to say that a teacher is "less" successful in his chosen career that CEO, or just because he has more time, he spends more time with family

once again i want to reiterate that spending time, sharing responsibilities, working on relationships, being sympethetic comes with education and exposure to various facets of life.
This is a personal trait which gets developed.

and i just want to point out that "work" expands to fill "time"



<<Now sometime's I feel that Modern educated liberals just live in their imaginery bookish world
which is not possible in reality .Now wonder family system is collapsed in europe>>

simply a case of point of ereference.

to the "liberal" european westerns, maybe indian family model stinks with dowry deaths, relation bickerings etc etc etc..

let's not tread something we both do not have a first hand information about.

 

[kds1980]

hours are our own making

no one passed a writ that there must be only 24 hours

Have you heard of the concept of 25th hour in the day?

Don't know what are you saying and I don't want to understand it There are 24 hours in a day and its ok for me

this either implies that you mean to say that a teacher is "less" successful in his chosen career that CEO, or just because he has more time, he spends more time with family

Of course a teacher in worldly terms is less succesful than CEO Just check the salaries and tell me :roll:
may be teachers salaies are at par with CEOs overnight

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<Of course a teacher in worldly terms is less succesful than CEO Just check the salaries and tell me <<

so i get it

salary is your measure of success.

enjoy !!

<<Don't know what are you saying and I don't want to understand it There are 24 hours in a day and its ok for me>>

i am not going to charge you for it !!


but only if you are a willing recipient of the secret knowledge

 

[kds1980]

so i get it

salary is your measure of success.

enjoy !!

It is not my measure.it is world's measure .
Why do we say Bill Gates,Dhirubhai Ambani and billionare's are succesful .Simple because of their wealth

And if you don't beleive me just ask some youngsters which are studying computers,MBBS,MBA etc and ask them what is their motive behind doing these courses.The answer is simple Big pay packets

 

[Archived_Member_19]

kds ji

going back to the original line we started discussion
<If they want real equality then they should start marrying less succesful less earning men
who could help them in house work.>

you have turned your own opinion into a world opinion

<It is not my measure.it is world's measure .
Why do we say Bill Gates,Dhirubhai Ambani and billionare's are succesful .Simple because of their wealth>>


Are you sure that Bill Gates does not help out Melinda Gates?
Please read their biography.

As for me, i consider an old uneducated couple who had a dream to get their children educated and well settled as successful when they were able work together to save enough to fund their studies
Success is a measure of completion of the shared goals and dreams, not just a fatter packet or a shinier car.
Modern women marry men who can make them partners in their goals and dreams. Who can share rather than provide.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Namjap Ji

The links are provided by Amarsanghera, not me.

Oops. I'm well-known for getting simple things mixed up. Sorry.:hmm:

Success has as many definitions as there are people defining it. I'm staying out of the argument.

My husband, Mani was an oncologist, a cancer doctor. In the 1970s, many more cancer patients died than is the case now. His work was difficult and emotionally draining to him. He often came home close to tears of empathy for his patients.:8-

Nonetheless, he was always observant of my condition and he helped in whatever way I needed. He was never more handsome, masculine and loved than when he was washing dinner dishes after a hard day on the farm for me. As a financially 'successful' - although by no means wealthy - couple, we also were willing and able to pay for help when we needed it around the house. And he loved playing with our son, which gave them both recreation and me a rest.

:idea:It seems to me that if both spouses are working, as is the norm today, they could put together a fund to pay for some help with the housework, freeing them and giving her a break. It might mean giving up some other pleasure, but that's a matter of priorities.

In the end, though, the Kaur needs to empower herself, through the power of Guru Ji. She needs to know what she wants, how much she is willing to handle and have a plan to fulfill herself as a human being. If she is a daughter of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, she has a great well of strength, courage, hope and chardi kala to draw on. It's not easy, but it is possible.

I believe it is necessary that she put her values as a Sikh, preferably an Amritdhari Sikh, first. One of these values is self-esteem, the knowledge of who she is, what she is and what she is about. Remembering that, she can hold her head up among any group, knowing she represents her Guru with dignity and pride.

It would be very nice to have to cooperation of the Singhs. We love and treasure our men. :shy: I know I'm 56 and not in the matrimonial market, but honestly, I don't see how a young lady can fail to be attracted to a strong, proud turbaned Sikh man. Even at my age, I admit such men - of any age - still send tingles down my spine.

But with or without their help, we Singhnis need to stand up, open our mouths, voice our ideas and insist on being heard. Ah, yes, we need to bellow a bit! sometimes - 2: ...And They Bellow

 

[Sinister]

And if you don't beleive me just ask some youngsters which are studying computers,MBBS,MBA etc and ask them what is their motive behind doing these courses.The answer is simple Big pay packets

The agent of motivation that is required for someone to complete intensive studies is general interest in the subject, not greed.

A “youngster”, whose prime motive is based primarily and purely on financial return can never complete MBBS (no matter how much she or he loves money)

I GIVE YOU MY WORD ON THAT!!!

Why do we say Bill Gates,Dhirubhai Ambani and billionare's are succesful .Simple because of their wealth

is how much money you have a measure of success? Does society think this is success? Society is a cruel judge…they fall in love with you one day and hate you the next.

How many people (in society) would consider Hitler a success story?
Stalin?
Bush?
Indira Gandhi?
J.D Rockafeller?
Britney Spears?
Paris Hilton?
Or how about Prince Williams?
Micheal Jackson?

Surely these people earned (earn) lots of money (heck, one of them managed to conquer half the world)..yet public perception is rather mute in calling them successful. (Especially when they are walking out of Rehab clinics or death camps)

Society does not measure success on the basis of money, but persona... and on the basis of whether or not you have completed your goals in life. Whether you have added or detracted to the livelihood of others.

society is a very intelligeant organism...it learns very quickly, adapts and changes.


Aside:
Woman belong in the workplace, I have noticed their capabilities and I can say that their finished products are usually of high quality

(Woman are equal to men in intellect, however, someone seriously needs to teach them how to drive ).

 

[pk70]

( quote sinister ji)
is how much money you have a measure of success? Does society think this is success? Society is a cruel judge…they fall in love with you one day and hate you the next.

How many people (in society) would consider Hitler a success story?
Stalin?
Bush?
Indira Gandhi?
J.D Rockafeller?
Britney Spears?
Paris Hilton?
Or how about Prince Williams?
Micheal Jackson?

Surely these people earned (earn) lots of money (heck, one of them managed to conquer half the world)..yet public perception is rather mute in calling them successful. (Especially when they are walking out of Rehab clinics or death camps)

Society does not measure success on the basis of money, but persona... and on the basis of whether or not you have completed your goals in life. Whether you have added or detracted to the livelihood of others.

society is a very intelligeant organism...it learns very quickly, adapts and changes.


Aside:
Woman belong in the workplace, I have noticed their capabilities and I can say that their finished products are usually of high quality

(Woman are equal to men in intellect, however, someone seriously needs to teach them how to drive ).

A few would think that way, when they do, world will look different
No wonder I like sinister's comments loaded with deep meaning !:happy No buttering !)

 

[Astroboy]

Mai Jee,

Here's something that I found as interesting to understand and act upon right away.
The Paradigm Shift by Bob Proctor from The SECRET - Video


Bob Proctor on Larry King Live - Video

 

[kds1980]

The agent of motivation that is required for someone to complete intensive studies is general interest in the subject, not greed.

A “youngster”, whose prime motive is based primarily and purely on financial return can never complete MBBS (no matter how much she or he loves money)

I GIVE YOU MY WORD ON THAT!!!

Not at all.In country like India You have choose a creer in which jobs are available with big pay packets
I am sorry but this is real world of India.My brother is currently doing masters in computers and he told me that 70% to 80% of his friends never wanted to be in computers.Someone wanted to be in Indian air force or some one give up his career in cricket.Reason Plenty of jobs In IT sector bigger pay packets
Infact parents all over India force their chilbren to opt lucrative careers .The obedient children accept what their parents say while very few rebel.Also my cousin sister is also doing graduation in computer science and she is topper in her college.But she openly says that she hates computers and wanted to be in mass.

Sorry Sinister life is much different in developed and developing countries.You have adjust to the circumstances of life.

 

[kds1980]

you have turned your own opinion into a world opinion

Not at all Amar ji.The real world is very much different of this forum world.Just involve in any arrange marriage process and you will get the answer.The first question which a girl's parents ask is What is boy doing,How much he is earning? If you tell them that he is truck driver barely making 8,000 per month then a father of computer professional will throw you out of his house saying is this my daughter.But if you ask him that boy is computer professional making 50-60 k pm then parents and girl will go further in process.

Are you sure that Bill Gates does not help out Melinda Gates?
Please read their biography.

Oh please I don't want to debate about Bill and melinda Now.Also there are millions of husbands who help their wives but nobody know their name

As for me, i consider an old uneducated couple who had a dream to get their children educated and well settled as successful when they were able work together to save enough to fund their studies
Success is a measure of completion of the shared goals and dreams, not just a fatter packet or a shinier car.
Modern women marry men who can make them partners in their goals and dreams. Who can share rather than provide.

My personal defination is also different but it is useless in this world.I have to accept what is the defination of successful for world.We all can make our definations.

Amar ji when you started writing on forum I thought you are a person with great practical knowledge of India.But to be honest I am disappointed that you too prefer in writing theortical term rather than practical.

If I start beleiving world of forums then this world should be no less than heaven as everybody writes here so good.But In Reality majority do what is practical world is doing

 

[kds1980]

is how much money you have a measure of success? Does society think this is success? Society is a cruel judge…they fall in love with you one day and hate you the next.

How many people (in society) would consider Hitler a success story?
Stalin?
Bush?
Indira Gandhi?
J.D Rockafeller?
Britney Spears?
Paris Hilton?
Or how about Prince Williams?
Micheal Jackson?

Surely these people earned (earn) lots of money (heck, one of them managed to conquer half the world)..yet public perception is rather mute in calling them successful. (Especially when they are walking out of Rehab clinics or death camps)

Society does not measure success on the basis of money, but persona... and on the basis of whether or not you have completed your goals in life. Whether you have added or detracted to the livelihood of others.

Sinister let me tell you a story in reply.a few years ago I watched a documentry of mahout and his elephant That mahout was perhaps very satisfied and happy in serving his elephant.One night he had a dream in which his elephant said that in next life you will be my elephant and I will be you mahout
He said I agree.So he did not have problem getting next birth as elephant.Such was the satisfaction of that mahout

Now the goal of this mahout was to serve and be with his elephant.Now my question is do this society
accepts these people as succesful?

The point of the story is there are millions of people who have very small goals which they acheive but for society they are not at all successful

The example's you quoted are very few and had/have big ambitions which they succeed or partially succeed.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

As one probably as old as two of you together, let me share my experience:

1. Practicality is overrated. Such a dull way to live.:down:

2. Material success is overrated. "S/he who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.":u):

3. Life is an adventure to be lived, not a problem to be solved. For all the various genders.:happy:

4. Loving Vaheguru and following our Guru/s is happiness and fulfillment.

5. Nonetheless, it's a good idea to enjoy Maya while you're hear, knowing that all wounds will be healed in the bed of the True Husband.

6. Remain in chardi kala! Always and forever. No matter what!

7. Eat ice cream on every possible occaision:ice:

8. "There is nothing left to you at this moment but tohave a good laugh." (Zen) :rofl!!:

"And ain't I a woman?"


"That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud-puddles, or gives me any best place! And ain't I a woman? Look at me! Look at my arm! I have ploughed and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me! And ain't I a woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man - when I could get it - and bear the lash as well! And ain't I a woman? I have borne thirteen children, and seen most all sold off to slavery, and when I cried out with my mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me! And ain't I a woman? " Sojourner Truth, 1851

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<Not at all Amar ji.The real world is very much different of this forum world.Just involve in any arrange marriage process and you will get the answer.The first question which a girl's parents ask is What is boy doing,How much he is earning? If you tell them that he is truck driver barely making 8,000 per month then a father of computer professional will throw you out of his house saying is this my daughter.But if you ask him that boy is computer professional making 50-60 k pm then parents and girl will go further in process.>>

you are giving avery theoretical example

why would a truck driver even get to meet the parents of a girl who expect a professional if its an arranged marriage?

i find this an unrealistic scenario.

<<Oh please I don't want to debate about Bill and melinda Now.Also there are millions of husbands who help their wives but nobody know their name>>

thank you. you yourself answered the point. If there are millions of men who help their wives, then are millions of them unsucessful and less earning?


<<My personal defination is also different but it is useless in this world.I have to accept what is the defination of successful for world.We all can make our definations.>>

kds ji

we all have choices to make, we can live by our own standards for ourselves and be ourselves, or we can forever be images of someone's impressions and thoughts.

what else is life without optimism?

ut i understand, its a choice you made, you would live and strive to be successful by what world expects and as Sinister shared, God Help you live up to it

<<Amar ji when you started writing on forum I thought you are a person with great practical knowledge of India.But to be honest I am disappointed that you too prefer in writing theortical term rather than practical.>>

yes KDS ji, i am an immature person who writes from his gut. knowing about the "boundaries" is not the end to all, eliminating and thinking beyound the obvoius is important, atleast in my opinion.

<<If I start beleiving world of forums then this world should be no less than heaven as everybody writes here so good.But In Reality majority do what is practical world is doing>>>



alas there are only 100 active members on the board


<<<Not at all.In country like India You have choose a creer in which jobs are available with big pay packets
<<<I am sorry but this is real world of India.My brother is currently doing masters in computers and he told me that 70% to 80% of his friends never wanted to be in computers.Someone wanted to be in Indian air force or some one give up his career in cricket.Reason Plenty of jobs In IT sector bigger pay packets>>>

this is a lie, the guy who says that he quit cricket...he never was passionate abt it enough, or he realized that he was not being fulfilled enough with the game and its challenges.




<<<Infact parents all over India force their chilbren to opt lucrative careers .The obedient children accept what their parents say while very few rebel.>>

why do you have to call it rebel?

why not empower the children to engage in dialogue?

KDS ji i just hope that you do try this out with your kids.


<<Also my cousin sister is also doing graduation in computer science and she is topper in her college.But she openly says that she hates computers and wanted to be in mass.>>>

KDS ji

have you asked her that why is she doing it?

beneath her decision, there would be a goal, objective she wants to fulfill.

probe her, beyond the money, beyond position.

You will get the answer.

She is making compromise for something she herself is not able to verbalize. Help her do that. i assure you, she will stop proclaiming that she hates computers else she would change her course.

<<<Sorry Sinister life is much different in developed and developing countries.You have adjust to the circumstances of life.>>>

KDS jii agree thatopportunities differ among countries, but this still does not justify that why do you join the rat race

 

[kds1980]

you are giving avery theoretical example

why would a truck driver even get to meet the parents of a girl who expect a professional if its an arranged marriage?

i find this an unrealistic scenario.

The question here is why can't a person who is driving driving truck can marry a computer professional?

thank you. you yourself answered the point. If there are millions of men who help their wives, then are millions of them unsucessful and less earning?

Wait where I said that all these are less successful aor less earning

kds ji

we all have choices to make, we can live by our own standards for ourselves and be ourselves, or we can forever be images of someone's impressions and thoughts.

what else is life without optimism?

ut i understand, its a choice you made, you would live and strive to be successful by what world expects and as Sinister shared, God Help you live up to it

For majority of people life is compromise.It is the social pressure that drives people to work,to marry,to have kids.Very few people get the career of their choice.70% of India is engaged in agriculture
That does not mean they interested in it.Others drive's trucks buses and do so many jobs which people
hardly want to do

alas there are only 100 active members on the board

I am not only talking about this forum .You misunderstand me on lot of things

this is a lie, the guy who says that he quit cricket...he never was passionate abt it enough, or he realized that he was not being fulfilled enough with the game and its challenges.

Not at all there millions in India who are passionate about cricket but only less than 100 will make into entry in Indian team the some others could play at nationnal level.The others have to compromise with the truth.You cannot put a million in cricketing career

why do you have to call it rebel?

why not empower the children to engage in dialogue?

KDS ji i just hope that you do try this out with your kids.

I am calling it rebel because you have to choose career in India at very early age where you are totally in experianed about life.At that time teenagers are full of dream .They think life is just a piece of cake.
But as they grow old they started realising that life is not what they thought.Parents generally are much more experianced and practical

KDS ji

have you asked her that why is she doing it?

beneath her decision, there would be a goal, objective she wants to fulfill.

probe her, beyond the money, beyond position.

You will get the answer.

There is big story behind it.she want's to make film and that too in hollywood .At present she is doing it only for money and because job oppurtunities are plenty in IT sector

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<The question here is why can't a person who is driving driving truck can marry a computer professional?>>

if there is a mutual liking...which i am not sure is the objective of arranged marriage as the starting point

<<Wait where I said that all these are less successful aor less earning>>

in your previous posts you had mentioned that if women want men who would help them, they need to marry les successful/less earning guys

<<Not at all there millions in India who are passionate about cricket but only less than 100 will make into entry in Indian team the some others could play at nationnal level.The others have to compromise with the truth.You cannot put a million in cricketing career>>.

why not?

if you are good enough and think that this is something that would make you complete...why not pursue it to the end?

who are those 100 ones?

<<I am calling it rebel because you have to choose career in India at very early age where you are totally in experianed about life.At that time teenagers are full of dream .They think life is just a piece of cake.
But as they grow old they started realising that life is not what they thought.Parents generally are much more experianced and practical>>

many a experienced people wanted to mould Guru Nanak's way of life too