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Karma and The Creator

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Archived_member14, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. Archived_member14

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    Nov 15, 2004
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    My knowledge of Sikhi is almost zero. Some questions have arisen for which I would like to know the answer. So I put forward them here on this forum with the hope that some knowledgable person will be able to answer them. Here are the questions.

    What is Karma according to Sikh teachings?
    Is Akal Purukh identified also as Creator?
    Does Akal Purukh also control that which IT creates?
    Assuming that Karma means in some sense, 'cause which brings about fruit', and assuming that the answer to the above is yes, how are these two compatible?

    Thanks in advance.
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  3. drkhalsa

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    Sep 16, 2004
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    Dear confused

    this from some website and you may have already read this but I will try to explain as i know

    Yes AkalPurakh is a creater of all creation and yes he is also controller of it also but still there is karma I will try to explain I don’t know your religion but if you are from hindu religion than it will much easier to understand

    Akal purakh is super master creator i have used these terms just to remind that as for purpose of explanation we putting akal purakh in a role of ordinary creator ( like humans with limitations) but in reality Akal purakh is such a great creator that whole creation can compared to just a split second thought process of Akal purakh .

    So know this creation ( like a game )created by Akal purakh has some rules which is called karma and it determines the materilistic aspect of life of a being ( Which in hindu philosophy are explained as three modes of nature or maya 1) goodness 2) passion 3) ignorance as according to Bhagvat Gita animals are considered to be in mode of ignorance so there karma is in automated mode without much freewill and also humans who don’t care about god ( manmukhs in sikh concept are in same mode of ignorance but there Karma could possibly be influenced by people in other modes who have more free will
    So as advised in Hindu philosophy doing good deeds or karma leads to good fruits is there and in this way human can elevate himself to mode of goodness but still he is playing a materialistic game doing good deeds so reeping good deeds so again in the same cycle of death and birth In simple word if you do good deeds off course you deserve good fruits of it but to enjoy these fruits again you have to take birth again

    So what i mean is that karma is always bad it can never be good in any case

    But the beauty of Sikhism is that guru ji graced all with the fourth mode which is above these three materialistic modes
    As in this mode every thing action human ( gurmukh ) does is for the god , in remembrance of god so each and every action is for the service of Akal Purakh so there is no resulting karma this beyond the law of karma and this answer of the riddle how karma is exhausted and this mode is mode of bhakti devotion to lord in which human cease to exist for himself he just exist as part of ,as aservant of god and is liberated from cycle of death and birth

    qRY gux mwieAw mohu hY gurmuiK cauQw pdu pwie ]
    qRY gux mwieAw mohu hY gurmuiK cauQw pdu pwie ]
    The three qualities hold people in attachment to Maya. The Gurmukh attains the fourth state of higher consciousness.
    »Y gux mweAw mohu hY gurmuiK caQw pdu pwe ]
    tarai gun maa-i-aa moh hai gurmukh cha-uthaa pad paa-ay.

    Page 33, Line 11 -- Guru Amar Das
    sqguir imilAY iqRkutI CUtY cauQY pid mukiq duAwru ]2]
    Meeting the Guru, the bondage of the three qualities is cut away, and in the fourth state, the Door of Liberation is attained. ||2||
    sqguir imilEy qãkutI CUtY caQY pid mukiq duAw{ ]2]
    satgur mili-ai tarikutee chhootai cha-uthai pad mukat du-aar. ||2||

    Page 68, Line 14 -- Guru Amar Das
    cauQy pd mih shju hY gurmuiK plY pwie ]6]
    In the fourth state, there is intuitive balance; the Gurmukhs gather it in. ||6||
    caQy pd mih shju hY gurmuiK plY pwe ]6]
    cha-uthay pad meh sahj hai gurmukh palai paa-ay. ||6||

    Page 113, Line 7 -- Guru Amar Das
    cauQI pauVI gurmuiK aUcI sco scu kmwvixAw ]4]
    The fourth state, the highest, is obtained by the Gurmukh, who practices Truth, and only Truth. ||4||
    caQI paVI gurmuiK åcI sco scu kmwvixAw ]4]
    cha-uthee pa-orhee gurmukh oochee sacho sach kamaavani-aa. ||4||

    Page 117, Line 3 -- Guru Amar Das
    piV piV pMifq monI Qky cauQy pd kI swr n pwvixAw ]5]
    Reading and reciting, the Pandits, the religious scholars, and the silent sages have grown weary, but they have not found the supreme essence of the fourth state. ||5||
    piV piV pNifq monI Qky caQy pd kI swr n pwvixAw ]5]
    parh parh pandit monee thakay cha-uthay pad kee saar na paavni-aa. ||5||

    Page 129, Line 6 -- Guru Amar Das
    gur prswdI ko ivrlw bUJY cauQY pid ilv lwvixAw ]1]
    By Guru`s Grace, a few come to understand; they center their consciousness in the fourth state. ||1||
    gur prswdI ko ivrlw bUJY caQY pid ilv lwvixAw ]1]
    gur parsaadee ko virlaa boojhai cha-uthai pad liv laavani-aa. ||1||

    Page 154, Line 12 -- Guru Nanak Dev
    qurIAwvsQw siqgur qy hir jwnu ]1]
    but the fourth state, union with the Lord, is known only through the True Guru. ||1||
    qurIAwvsQw siqgur qy hir jwnu ]1]
    turee-aavasthaa satgur tay har jaan. ||1||

    Page 231, Line 7 -- Guru Amar Das
    qRY gux myty cauQY icqu lwieAw ]
    it eradicates the three qualities, and attunes the consciousness to the fourth state.
    »Y gux myty caQY icqu lweAw ]
    tarai gun maytay cha-uthai chit laa-i-aa.

    Page 284, Line 14 -- Guru Arjan Dev
    nwnk cauQy pd mih so jnu giq pwey ]5]
    - O Nanak, in the fourth state, those humble servants attain salvation. ||5||
    nwnk caQy pd mih so jnu giq pwE ]5]
    naanak cha-uthay pad meh so jan gat paa-ay. ||5||

    Page 297, Line 3 -- Guru Arjan Dev
    qIin ibAwpih jgq kau qurIAw pwvY koie ]
    The world is in the grip of the three qualities; only a few attain the fourth state of absorption.
    qIin ibAwpih jgq ka qurIAw pwvY koe ]
    teen bi-aapahi jagat ka-o turee-aa paavai ko-ay.

    Page 370, Line 15 -- Guru Arjan Dev
    qurIAw guxu imil swD pCwny ]2]
    And then, the fourth state of bliss was revealed to me by the Holy One. ||2||
    qurIAw guxu imil swD pCwny ]2]
    turee-aa gun mil saaDh pachhaanay. ||2||

    Page 509, Line 11 -- Guru Amar Das
    mwieAw kw mUlu rcwieEnu qurIAw suKu pwieAw ]2]
    He created the root of Maya, and the peace obtained in the fourth state of consciousness. ||2||
    mweAw kw mUlu rcweAonu qurIAw suKu pweAw ]2]
    maa-i-aa kaa mool rachaa-i-on turee-aa sukh paa-i-aa. ||2||

    Page 603, Line 5 -- Guru Amar Das
    mn ry qRY gux Coif cauQY icqu lwie ]
    O mind, renounce the three qualities, and focus your consciousness on the fourth state.
    mn ry »Y gux Coif caQY icqu lwe ]
    man ray tarai gun chhod cha-uthai chit laa-ay.

    Page 604, Line 7 -- Guru Amar Das
    gurmuiK hovY cauQw pdu cInY rwm nwim suKu hoeI ]3]
    But one who becomes Gurmukh comes to realize the fourth state of celestial bliss; he finds peace through the Name of the Lord. ||3||
    gurmuiK hovY caQw pdu cInY rwm nwim suKu hoeé ]3]
    gurmukh hovai cha-uthaa pad cheenai raam naam sukh ho-ee. ||3||

    Page 686, Line 2 -- Guru Nanak Dev
    cauQy pd kau jy mnu pqIAwey ]7]
    when one centers his mind in the fourth state. ||7||
    caQy pd ka jy mnu pqIAwE ]7]
    cha-uthay pad ka-o jay man patee-aa-ay. ||7||

    Page 839, Line 9 -- Guru Nanak Dev
    qIin smwvY cauQY vwsw ]
    One who overcomes the three qualities, dwells in the fourth state.
    qIin smwvY caQY vwsw ]
    teen samaavai cha-uthai vaasaa.

    Page 840, Line 13 -- Guru Nanak Dev
    caudis cauQy Qwvih lih pwvY ]
    The Fourteenth Day: One who enters into the fourth state,
    cadis caQy Qwvih lih pwvY ]
    cha-udas cha-uthay thaaveh leh paavai.

    Page 871, Line 1 -- Saint Kabir
    cauQy pd mih jn kI ijMdu ]4]1]4]
    The soul of His humble servant dwells in the fourth state. ||4||1||4||
    caQy pd mih jn kI ijNdu ]4]1]4]
    cha-uthay pad meh jan kee jind. ||4||1||4||

    Page 908, Line 3 -- Guru Nanak Dev
    qRY gux myty cauQY vrqY eyhw Bgiq inrwrI ]16]
    Eradicating the three qualities, dwell in the fourth state. This is the unparalleled devotional worship. ||16||
    »Y gux myty caQY vrqY Ehw Bgiq inrwrI ]16]
    tarai gun maytay cha-uthai vartai ayhaa bhagat niraaree. ||16||

    Page 909, Line 17 -- Guru Amar Das
    gur prswdI iqRkutI CUtY cauQY pid ilv lweI ]17]
    By Guru`s Grace, this triad is eradicated, and one is lovingly absorbed in the fourth state. ||17||
    gur prswdI qãkutI CUtY caQY pid ilv lweé ]17]
    gur parsaadee tarikutee chhootai cha-uthai pad liv laa-ee. ||17||

    Page 943, Line 15 -- Guru Nanak Dev
    cauQy suMnY jo nru jwxY qw kau pwpu n puMnµ ]
    One who knows the Lord in the fourth state, is not subject to virtue or vice.
    caQy suñnY jo n{ jwxY qw ka pwpu n puñnN ]
    cha-uthay sunnai jo nar jaanai taa ka-o paap na puNnaN.

    Page 1038, Line 4 -- Guru Nanak Dev
    ijs no ik®pw kry hir gurmuiK guix cauQY mukiq krwiedw ]11]
    Those blessed by His Grace become Gurmukh; they attain the fourth state, and are liberated. ||11||
    ijs no Ïpw kry hir gurmuiK guix caQY mukiq krwedw ]11]
    jis no kirpaa karay har gurmukh gun cha-uthai mukat karaa-idaa. ||11||

    Page 1038, Line 17 -- Guru Nanak Dev
    qRY vrqwie cauQY Gir vwsw ]
    The three qualities are pervasive; the Lord dwells in His home, the fourth state.
    »Y vrqwe caQY Gir vwsw ]
    tarai vartaa-ay cha-uthai ghar vaasaa.

    Page 1123, Line 4 -- Saint Kabir
    cauQy pd kau jo nru cIn@Y iqn@ hI prm pdu pwieAw ]2]
    That man who realizes the fourth state - he alone obtains the supreme state. ||2||
    caQy pd ka jo n{ cIn@Y iqn@ hI pmé pdu pweAw ]2]
    cha-uthay pad ka-o jo nar cheenHai tinH hee param pad paa-i-aa. ||2||

    Page 1130, Line 8 -- Guru Amar Das
    cauQI pdvI gurmuiK vrqih iqn inj Gir vwsw pwieAw ]
    The Gurmukhs dwell in the fourth state; they obtain a dwelling in the home of their own inner being.
    caQI pdvI gurmuiK vrqih iqn inj Gir vwsw pweAw ]
    cha-uthee padvee gurmukh varteh tin nij ghar vaasaa paa-i-aa.

    Page 1258, Line 7 -- Guru Amar Das
    cauQY pid vwsw hoieAw scY rhY smwie ]3]
    He comes to dwell in the fourth state; he remains merged in the True Lord. ||3||
    caQY pid vwsw hoeAw scY rhY smwe ]3]
    cha-uthai pad vaasaa ho-i-aa sachai rahai samaa-ay. ||3||

    So you see it is such a simple formula but also seems to be secret because most of us spend our life as manmukh in mode of Ignorance and the very point of life we realise this submit ourself in will of Akal purakh we are freed of Karma and just the Forth mode prevails. This is the reason our Guru ji condemned the hindu practices related to Karm- Kand because you do any thing to improve your karma by various rituals and so called good deeds (donations , animal worship , yags, havens , daans to brahmins ...) you are stilldealing in karma and offcourse you are being fooled as you can see it your self .
    So the only thing you need is become gurmukh and do each and every activity for the god, in name of god and in remembrance of god you don’t need to bother abut this Karma thing as for Sikhism Karma is sort of primitive thing and I would even say that for Gurmukh karma doesnot exist .
  4. humanist

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    Oct 24, 2004
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    Dear Mr. Confused,

    The moment you ask a question, you become a Sikh—a ‘shishya’ a seeker of knowledge or Truth.

    The only timeless Truth is the temporally dimensionless ‘Akal’ purukh.

    ‘Karma’ is a Universal philosophy—be it in Hinduism, Islam or Sikhism. It is the chariot on which the soul progresses from good to better or from bad to worse, or reaches a zero-balance bottom-line ready to enter the “moksha-dwara”-- the larger Domain into which our individually identifiable sub-domains seek to eventually merge.

    The paths which lead to the said dwara are many—therein lies the beauty & diversity amongst various religions or practices. Since ‘beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder’, he/she prefers one path to the other—although all paths are, in fact, equally beautiful.




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