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Karam of bibi comes to haunt her back ?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Seeker2013, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    my mom came today and told me some xyz amritdhari bibi, lets call her 'xyz' is suffering from paralysis of her one side of the face . that face of the side is drooping giving the 'bent effect' to her face. She also seems to be in pain.
    I was almost taken back to memories of my childhood , when we used to play in the chawl we lived back in (she and her family still lives there, our house was 2 houses offset from hers), I used to noticed some twisted (literally) lower jaw human bones that fell from the roof of the neighbor of this xyz bibi,
    as if taken from some human skeleton and twisted . I used to see such things in the small gutter that flowed in the front of the house of their house. The xyz bibi and their neighbors often quarelled and this xyz bibi made her life difficult often. It was believed that this xyz bibi (although amritdhari and getting up early everyday) used to go to some black magic practitioner who gave her some black magic stuff to throw twisted human jaw bones (in punjabi, we call them 'masaan' ) on rooftop of her neighbor.

    I used to be shock where all this human jaw bones came from. As if karma is hitting that bibi now , as if universe is reciprocating to what she gave off (badness and evil). Today she cries and wails in pain and people often make remarks regarding her bent jaw.
    Waheguru and karma is very much there . Its just that every karma is like a seed, some sprout soon and some decades after !
    Waheguru bless us to walk on right path. Do good deeds and good happens to you.
    Help people, give to orphans and the poor, the needy , I wish to do it myself and not just lecture. may he guide us on the right path.

    waheguru
     
    #1 Seeker2013, Jan 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
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  3. Ishna

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    1. Witchcraft is not real.
    2. Rumours of witchcraft kill innocent people. Like, actually, people are killed, including innocent little children, because the uneducated scream 'witchcraft!!' usually because they are unhappy with their own lives and want someone to blame instead of taking responsibility.
    3. To recount this story and say 'she is getting hers now' amounts to nothing more than slander and Gurbani clearly warns against this.
    4. To say her stroke is due to "Waheguru and karma" is just so misguided I don't know where to start.

    I am of a mind to get rid of this thread, because it is so vile.

    My skin crawls to think that people think this kind of thinking is ok.
     
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  4. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    I am in no way saying what happened to her is good or that I am enjoying her misery. I would rather she gets well soon . After all, every soul is part of god . I am not happy at her misery but I am saying we should just learn something from her deeds .
    Witchcraft is not real ?? well, you're mixing modern thinking with religion and this is what happens .
    Our gurus asked us to stay away from the dark world of witchcraft but this doesn't mean it doesn't exist !!
     
  5. Ishna

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    Witchcraft doesn't exist. To even entertain the thought is dangerous. To believe in it is backwards and ridiculous. Sorry, but this is what happens when religion meets blind faith, not 'modern thinking'.
     
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  6. Ishna

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    5 Women Accused Of Being Witches Beaten To Death In India
    08/08/2015 11:39 am ET | Updated Aug 08, 2015

    PATNA, India (AP) — Dozens of villagers in eastern India beat to death five women Saturday, accusing them of practicing witchcraft and blaming them for a series of misfortunes in the village, police said.

    Residents of Kinjia village in Jharkhand state dragged the women out of their homes and beat them with sticks and iron rods, said Arun Kumar Singh, a deputy inspector-general of police in Ranchi, Jharkhand's capital.

    The attackers blamed the women for several accidents and misfortunes suffered by villagers, including the death of an infant in Kinjia earlier in the week, Singh said.

    Police have arrested around 50 people involved in the attack, Singh said. A large number of police officers have been deployed in the village to prevent any outbreak of violence.

    Jharkhand's top elected official, Chief Minister Raghubar Das, condemned the incident. "In the age of knowledge, this incident is sorrowful. Society should ponder over it," he said in a statement.

    Superstitious beliefs persist in many parts of India and have been behind similar attacks on women in Jharkhand. From 2000 to 2012, around 2,100 people, mostly women, were killed in India on suspicion of practicing witchcraft, according to the National Crime Records Bureau.

    Kinjia is about 40 kilometers (25 miles) west of Ranchi.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/08/08/witches-beaten-to-death-india_n_7959682.html
     
  7. Ishna

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    India: Family accused of witchcraft hacked to death with axes by village mob
    By Fiona Keating
    July 13, 2015 23:42 BST

    An Indian couple and four of their children were brutally killed after being accused of practicing witchcraft.

    Gura Munda, 40, his wife and six children were sleeping in their house in Lahanda, Keonjhar district when a group of five people wielding axes broke in, according to police.

    The suspects, thought to be relatives of the victims were convinced that the family were usingwitchcraft to cause sickness among children in the village.

    "Some villagers had a meeting in which they accused Munda of practising witchcraft. The children of a few villagers were not keeping well for some time and they suspected Munda to be behind it. People here are mostly illiterate and would believe anything they are told," Ajay Pratap Swain, sub-divisional police officer, who is investigating the case told The Indian Express.

    A police official said: "The assailants were in an inebriated condition when they went to Gura's home and killed all of them in their sleep."

    The police were alerted by two of the children who managed to escape the brutal attack. Upon arriving at the scene, the mutilated bodies of the victims lying in pools of blood were discovered inside the hut.

    District Superintendent of Police Kavita Jalan said an axe was found at the scene. One child was still alive, holding on to his dead family members, according to a Reuters report.

    "The eight-year-old boy was found by police gasping between the dead bodies," said Jalan.

    A manhunt was set up by police to look for the five suspected killers, who fled the village after the murders were discovered.

    The lynching of alleged 'witches' continues in rural areas of India, despite laws banning it. People accused of black magic or witchcraft have been killed by superstitious villagers.

    According to the National Crime Records Bureau show there were 160 cases of murders connected with witchunts in 213, up from 119 in 2012.

    Charity workers say as well as trying to rid tribes of superstitious beliefs, the government needs to focus on education and economic development.

    'People believe in superstition because they do not have health care. They are uneducated. Unless we provide them these basic facilities, the situation will not improve,' said Debendra Sutar, secretary of the charity Odisha Rationalist Society.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/india-family-accused-witchcraft-hacked-death-axes-by-village-mob-1510688
     
  8. Seeker2013

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    yes false cases are common, but what do u make of twister human jaws on the rooftops of her neighbor ? Its called 'masaans' in punjabi .
     
  9. Ishna

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    Indian Woman Beaten to Death for 'Witchcraft'
    By Benjamin Radford, LiveScience Bad Science Columnist | July 31, 2014 12:54pm ET

    While witch hunts may seem to be dusty relics of a bygone age, the persecution, torture and execution of suspected witches continue in many places to the present day.

    The problem is especially palpable in India. Two weeks ago in a small Indian village not far from Nepal, Saraswati Devi, 45, was accused of being a witch after a local mystic identified her as having practiced black magic, reported The Washington Post. Over a dozen villagers beat Devi to death as punishment, while her two children tried to intervene. Though Devi's husband identified her attackers and notified police, no arrests were made, news reports reveal.

    Saraswati's is just one of many gruesome witch tales out of India. Some 2,097 individuals have been murdered due to accusations of witchcraft between 2000 and 2012, according to data from the National Crime Records Bureau in India, as reported by the Indian newspaper Mint. "Once practiced only by tribal communities, witch hunting is now becoming common among Dalits and other minority communities. The idea of a witch is common across all the affected [Indian] states," the Mint report said. (The Dalits are an oppressed group in India who are considered "untouchables" or "outcasts.")





    As the report describes, the witch hunters believe that witches have evil eyes or mouths, and that they kill cattle and eat humans. Accusers also think that witches destroy crops and can get people sick, the report shows. [What's Witchcraft? 6 Misconceptions About Wiccans]

    And witch hunts don't always result simply from superstition, the report said. Witch hunting can also be motivated by "family disputes over property, land rights of women, and village-level and gender conflicts."

    In many parts of the world, including India and Africa, people consult witch doctors not only to heal diseases, but also to place curses on social and political rivals. Individuals commonly look to magic for personal, political and financial gain; they turn to accusations of black magic use for similar purposes.

    Belief in witchcraft has led to horrific murders and mutilations in recent years outside of India, as well. In 2008, a mob of hundreds of young men killed eight women and three men in rural Kenya. Attackers had accused the victims of witchcraft, saying they cast spells that lowered the intelligence of the village's children.

    People who believe in black magic may also attack albinos; the body parts of those afflicted with the skin pigmentation disorder are sought after for use in magic spells and rituals. And in 2012, after being found in possession of "books and talismans from which he learned to harm God's worshipers," a Saudi Arabian man was beheaded for practicing sorcery, according to a statement from the Saudi Interior Ministry.

    Gender and class

    Accusations of witchcraft are a complex sociocultural phenomenon and involve many factors. Belief in magic is certainly an essential element, but the persecution of witches often involves issues of gender, race and class. Most of the Indian women targeted as witches were poor and of low caste.

    The targeting of women (and of lower-class women in particular) was prevalent in early European witch hunts, too. "We can be fairly certain that the great majority of those persecuted came from the lower levels of society," wrote Brian Levack, professor of history at the University of Texas at Austin, in his book "The Witch-Hunt in Early Modern Europe" (2006, Pearson). "The mere fact that so many witches were unattached women of no apparent social distinction points to this conclusion." [The 10 Most Destructive Human Behaviors]

    The same was true in many other places, as well. "In New England, the great majority of women accused of witchcraft before the Salem episode of 1692 were dependent members of the community who qualified for poor relief," Levack wrote. "In Norway, where large numbers of accused witches were described in trial records as extremely poor, most of those who were actually convicted were beggars. There are a number of reasons why the people who filled the lower ranks of society incurred accusations of witchcraft. Poor people, especially poor women, were the weakest and most vulnerable members of society."

    This remains true today in India, many parts of Africa and elsewhere. Those who are seen as occupying positive roles in rural, non-Western communities (such as witch doctors and traditional healers) often take part in identifying and persecuting innocent women as witches. Once mystical methods are used to "verify" who is a witch, the justice can be gruesome, including banishment, rape, disfigurement, torture and death.

    Indian lawmakers have begun to address the problem, but the roots of this superstition are centuries old and may never fully be eliminated.

    http://www.livescience.com/47129-nepalese-woman-killed-for-witchcraft.html
     
  10. Ishna

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    I could go on and on and on.... the point is, any kind of belief in "witchcraft" is sick and leads to unnecessary and cruel killing.
     
  11. Ishna

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    I need more information.

    At any rate, even if they are "twisted human jaws", so what? That is all they are.
     
  12. Seeker2013

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    where the hell would 'human skeleton bones' come from ? and they shouldn't be doing in someone's rooftop ! and not one but at many instances.
    anyways I am not arguing , I am not saying I am feeling happy at her misery. My family has been very close to hers. I grew up in their household too. I would rather she get well soon and god pardon her misdeeds if any.
    I just felt a striking semblance of what she (apparently ) did and what is now happening to her.
    I just pray to god to keep me on right path , not the path of those who have got his scorn
     
  13. Ishna

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    Firstly it would need to be established if they were human bones.

    Then, how they got onto the roof; I'm sure someone is breaking the law by doing that.

    Now, just for giggles, lets say someone was 'doing magic' with bones. Anyone who actually believes that 'magic' works, is just as nutty as the person who things they can 'do magic'.

    So... still no issue, apart from potential law breaking and anti-social behaviour.

    And I'm really not sure Waheguru is the kind of creative doer who 'scorns' anyone. *facepalm*
     
  14. Harry Haller

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    that is not true, human jaw bones are carefully shown to all small children at school so that they may be identified, you are not of Punjabi culture, so you are unlikely to know this, in the west, confirming human jaw bones requires sampling and testing, but in the Punjab, they can be confirmed in seconds, and from a distance, without even handling.

    I find your aversion to magic quite worrying, magic and superstition is engrained in traditional Sikhism, this is what happens when you apply western thinking to tradition, you end up insulting traditional ways and rituals, most Sikhs believe in magic, you only have to read some Sakhis to confirm this, magic is mentioned in many Sakhis about our Gurus. Please do not call us nutty.
    This last comment I find most worrying, again, in traditional Sikhism it is only the repeating of Wahegurus name that keeps bad magic at bay, those that do carry out bad magic, will of course be scorned by Waheguru, what else would happen to them?
     
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  15. Harry Haller

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    Why is google not confirming any details regarding twisted jaw bones (in Punjabi we call them masaan), i the only link between masaan and twisted jaw bones is in fact the post above!

    I am trying to support you here Seekerji but are you just making this up because you are bored?
     
    #14 Harry Haller, Jan 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016

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