1. SPN is the most popular online destination of Sikh Scholars, Intellectuals sharing & exploring their understanding on Sikhi. We invite you to write for SPN by sharing your intellectual research Articles, News, Videos & of course, your views!
    Dismiss Notice


Discussion in 'New to Sikhism' started by Charanjot Tamber, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. Charanjot Tamber

    Charanjot Tamber
    Expand Collapse

    May 19, 2010
    Likes Received:
    What Is your opinion of kalyug compared to the geological time scale??
    everything else in gurbani makes sense to me

    but kalyug and satyug not so much...


  2. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer

    Jul 4, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Thats becasue you may be looking at "klayug" Satyug and the other Yugs ..through the saffron colored eye glasses of vedanta/hinduism...

    There NO SUCH THING as YUG in Gurbani....
    Guru Nanak Ji and Mardana Ji arrived at the Holy City of Birthplace of Krishan Ji...and the entire town was lit up and getting ready for the festival....and a Brahmin Priest was caught redhanded doing what he shouldnt have done...and the cry was..ITS KALYUG..thats why...( Now a days also when there is news in the Papers/TV about..a "Kalyugi Baap" who raped his own daughter...a "klayugi Son" who beat the head of his grandmother in with a hammer..etc etc..and Peopel will exclaim..ITS KALYUG..what to expect...)

    Guur Nank ji Said ..NO....its got NOTHING TO DO with any Klayug or satyug whatever...
    ITS GOT TO DO WITH THE MAN....the Person....who has doen a crime..becasue of his MIND/MANN..going BAD...

    Look at the SKY..says Guru Nannak Ji...Its the SAME SUN shining in the skies...its the same clouds..the same WINDS..and at night its the SAME moon and the Same STARS....as have been in Satyug..Dwapur..Treta..Kalyug..AND WILL BE FOREVER..(until Akal Purakh decides ).....BUT its the MEN who have CHANGED....these men became Criminals..robbers..GOLUCK CHORS..looters..robbers...Becasue they WANT TO...not because of some vague.."kalyug" ??? satyug blah blah blah...

    This Shaabd is in the SGGS...and its MESSAGE is as clear as DAY at NOON !! its MAN who changes and not the TIMES....there were crooks in the early ages..and there will be crooks in the ending ages...:fish:animatedkhandacheerleaderswordfight
  3. spnadmin

    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    Supporter SPNer

    Jun 17, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Charanjot Tamber ji

    Please forgive my lengthy answer. I want to use a shabad to explain why Guru Nanak taught that Brahminical teachings about the yugs or yogas should be tossed aside. It is a long shabad.

    In Sikhism the "yugs" are not literal, fixed periods of time, as described in the classic Hindu philosophies. In the Hindu system there are 4 yugs: Sat Yug, Treta Yug, Dvaapar Yug and Kal Yug. The yugs cycle within a fixed length of 4,320,000 years, and the universe is created, destroyed and regenerated within this period. The cycles of time crest upward to Sat Yug, and then cycle downward to Kalyug, many times. The descent from Sat, leads to a gradual breakdown of dharma or righteousness. Eventually, all of dharma is destroyed, and the process starts all over again. This system of yugs is also connected to the Hindu system of astrology. The cosmic power of the yugs determines the behavior of humans. The central idea is that the yugs are the cause of the moral quality of our behavior.

    This shabad from Guru Nanak gives us another point of view It is a long shabad on Ang 920, so best to tune into particular verses.

    ਸੋਈ ਚੰਦੁ ਚੜਹਿ ਸੇ ਤਾਰੇ ਸੋਈ ਦਿਨੀਅਰੁ ਤਪਤ ਰਹੈ
    soee chandh charrehi sae thaarae soee dhineear thapath rehai ||

    The same moon rises, and the same stars; the same sun shines in the sky.

    Guru Nanak is saying that the moon, stars, and sun shine as they always have, no matter what time period or yug we are in. it is always the same moon, the same stars, and the same sun. This has been constant and dependable over the centuries. I understand this to mean, let’s leave this musing about the influence of cycles of the yugs to one side. It is a distraction.

    ਸਾ ਧਰਤੀ ਸੋ ਪਉਣੁ ਝੁਲਾਰੇ ਜੁਗ ਜੀਅ ਖੇਲੇ ਥਾਵ ਕੈਸੇ ॥੧॥
    saa dhharathee so poun jhulaarae yug jeea khaelae thhaav kaisae ||1||
    The earth is the same, and the same wind blows. The age in which we dwell affects living beings, but not these places. ||1||

    Yes, Guru Nanak says it is true that the age in which we live affects us and everyone around us, but it is not the yugs which affect us.

    ਜੀਵਨ ਤਲਬ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ
    jeevan thalab nivaar ||
    Give up your attachment to life.

    Our problem is our low level of moral consciousness.

    Next comes the first of two rehao lines around which Guru Nanak's message pivots.

    ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਲਖਣ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    hovai paravaanaa karehi dhhin(g)aanaa kal lakhan veechaar ||1|| rehaao ||
    Those who act like tyrants are accepted and approved - recognize that this is the sign of the Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||1||Pause||

    Tyranny in this shabad refers to the adharma or lack of righteousness of the Brahminical system of the time. However, tyranny is also a metaphor for the effects of adharma. When we are living outside of the rule of justice and virtue adharma causes great suffering in our own lives and the lives of those around us.

    He says the evidence that we are in the Dark Age of Kalyug comes because we accept the moral tyranny of those (Brahmins) who believe they are our masters; but they are really underlings. They are underlings because they cave into tyranny in order to protect their vested interests in life, their influence, their moral superiority and their control of the religious experiences of everyone else. Think back to the verse where Guru Nanak has just said, "Give up your attachment to life." That verse leads to this one.

    ਕਿਤੈ ਦੇਸਿ ਆਇਆ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਤੀਰਥ ਪਾਸਿ ਬੈਠਾ
    kithai dhaes n aaeiaa suneeai theerathh paas n baithaa ||
    Kali Yuga has not been heard to have come to any country, or to be sitting at any sacred shrine.

    Guru Nanak now says, if you look all around you, you won't find "Kal Yug.” Who announced its arrival? Where is it? What is it? Who is it? Do the idols seated in temples, or the holy men in shrines, give us dharma/morality?.

    ਦਾਤਾ ਦਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਤਹ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਹਲ ਉਸਾਰਿ ਬੈਠਾ ॥੨॥
    dhaathaa dhaan karae theh naahee mehal ousaar n baithaa ||2||
    It is not where the generous person gives to charities, nor seated in the mansion he has built. ||2||

    If Kal yug is a cosmic truth to be reckoned with, should we not find it every where? Why then, Guru Nanak asks, do we not find the moral darkness of Kal hug where people are generous? Why don't we find the darkness of Kal yug in the "the mansion” a generous person has built. This is not the literal home of the generous person, but the piling up of good deeds and blessings by the generous person. That person is creating a moral structure, is creating dharma, and nothing destroys that. (The generous person is also a metaphor for God, the Great Giver, who is the source of all dharma.)

    Now the next few lines go to the heart of what Guru Nanak sees as the real Kal jug, or the true cause of moral decay and darkness

    ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਤੁ ਕਰੇ ਸੋ ਛੀਜੈ ਤਪ ਘਰਿ ਤਪੁ ਹੋਈ
    jae ko sath karae so shheejai thap ghar thap n hoee ||
    If someone practices Truth, he is frustrated; prosperity does not come to the home of the sincere.

    Guru Nanak is saying, in this day and age, Truth is not held in high esteem, neither are the wages of truth. Truthfulness is stymied over and over again, the truthful person becomes frustrated. "Prosperity" does not visit his home. Hypocrisy rules.

    Moreover, those who show true devotion are scorned. So if you want to know what Kal Yug really is, Guru Nanak says, it is turning your back on the divine truth of the Naam.

    ਜੇ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਲਏ ਬਦਨਾਵੀ ਕਲਿ ਕੇ ਲਖਣ ਏਈ ॥੩॥
    jae ko naao leae badhanaavee kal kae lakhan eaeee ||3||
    If someone chants the Lord's Name, he is scorned. These are the signs of Kali Yuga. ||3||

    In the next few verses, he describes the breakdown of moral order. Those people, who posed as the moral leaders, teachers, and care-takers of collective morality, sold out to the Muslim overlords to protect their own skins. However, the following lines should be also understood as metaphors. No one takes morality seriously any more, because the priestly class bargained away its integrity in order to retain positions of privilege and power. In the same way our stubborn minds and egos stand in the way of dharma, because we are so attached to our ways of living.

    ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਖੁਆਰੀ ਚਾਕਰ ਕੇਹੇ ਡਰਣਾ
    jis sikadhaaree thisehi khuaaree chaakar kaehae ddaranaa ||
    Whoever is in charge, is humiliated. Why should the servant be afraid,

    ਜਾ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੈ ਪਵੈ ਜੰਜੀਰੀ ਤਾ ਚਾਕਰ ਹਥਹੁ ਮਰਣਾ ॥੪॥
    jaa sikadhaarai pavai janjeeree thaa chaakar hathhahu maranaa ||4||
    when the master is put in chains? He dies at the hands of his servant. ||4|

    ਆਖੁ ਗੁਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਆਈਐ
    aakh gunaa kal aaeeai
    Chant the Praises of the Lord; Kali Yuga has come.

    This is the second rehao line and in it Guru Nanak makes reference to the 3 yugs that always precede Kal yug in the Hindu belief system. At one level he seems to be saying that the dharma or righteous, which used to be found in Sat, Treta, and Dvapaar, has been left behind. It is lost. He seems to say that we really are slipping or cycling downward to Kal yug. At another level he is saying, the yug or cycle of time never did have any influence on human behavior. It is wrong to think that a chronological period of time can shape the morality of our actions, which is what the Brahmins believed. Guru Nanak says that the only period in time that has any importance, the only time when virtue can be found is "when the Lord bestows it." Naam bestows morality, not the yug in which we live.

    ਤਿਹੁ ਜੁਗ ਕੇਰਾ ਰਹਿਆ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਦੇਹਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    thihu yug kaeraa rehiaa thapaavas jae gun dhaehi th paaeeai ||1|| rehaao ||
    The justice of the previous three ages is gone. One obtains virtue, only if the Lord bestows it. ||1||Paus

    And in the next line Guru Nanak puts his finger on a problem. Today it is the law of the tyrant (then it was Muslim overlords) which rule us. And the tyranny of Muslims overlords is also a metaphor for the spiritual tyranny of our minds and egos that are stuck with living in adharma, are estranged from justice, and are suffering because of it.

    The verse gives the historical insight.

    ਕਲਿ ਕਲਵਾਲੀ ਸਰਾ ਨਿਬੇੜੀ ਕਾਜੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਹੋਆ
    kal kalavaalee saraa nibaerree kaajee kirasanaa hoaa |
    In this turbulent age of Kali Yuga, Muslim law decides the cases, and the blue-robed Qazi is the judge.

    Guru Nanak says, Consider something else. Believe that the Guru's word, the Guru's banee, overwhelms the teachings of the Vedas. Singing God's praises - that is good, that is a virtuous act, that is the seat of dharma.

    ਬਾਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਕਰਣੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਲਹਿਆ ॥੫॥
    baanee brehamaa baedh athharaban karanee keerath lehiaa ||5||
    The Guru's Bani has taken the place of Brahma's Veda, and the singing of the Lord's Praises are good deeds. ||5||

    I understand the next line to mean that anyone who accepts the tyranny of adharma (lack of righteousness) in their own lives and worships through austerities/self-discipline, and rituals that lead nowhere, is living ife without faith, truthfulness and inner purity (purity of mind).

    [/Cਪਤਿ ਵਿਣੁ ਪੂਜਾ ਸਤ ਵਿਣੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਜਤ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਾਹੇ ਜਨੇਊ
    path vin poojaa sath vin sanjam jath vin kaahae janaeoo ||
    Worship without faith; self-discipline without truthfulness; the ritual of the sacred thread without chastity - what good are these?

    ਨਾਵਹੁ ਧੋਵਹੁ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਚੜਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਚ ਵਿਣੁ ਸੋਚ ਹੋਈ ॥੬॥
    naavahu dhhovahu thilak charraavahu such vin soch n hoee ||6||

    You may bathe and wash, and apply a ritualistic tilak mark to your forehead, but without inner purity, there is no understanding. ||6|

    Guru Nanak in the next two lines is saying that, by accepting tyranny, the Brahmins disrespected the very concepts of dharma that they themselves taught from their own scriptures/Puranas.

    ਕਲਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ
    kal paravaan kathaeb kuraan ||
    In Kali Yuga, the Koran and the Bible have become famous.

    ਪੋਥੀ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਹੇ ਪੁਰਾਣ
    pothhee panddith rehae puraan ||
    The Pandit's scriptures and the Puraanas are not respected.

    And Guru Nanak speaks for each of us when he says we can do nothing greater than be joined to the Creator. We must recognize that Creative force for goodness already dwells within us. And if we must beg for something that we already own, then we should be ashamed.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਭਇਆ ਰਹਮਾਣੁ
    naanak naao bhaeiaa rehamaan ||
    O Nanak, the Lord's Name now is Rehmaan, the Merciful.

    ਕਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਤੂ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥੭॥
    kar karathaa thoo eaeko jaan ||7||
    Know that there is only One Creator of the creation. ||7||

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਏਦੂ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਨਹੀ
    naanak naam milai vaddiaaee eaedhoo oupar karam nehee |
    Nanak has obtained the glorious greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. There is no action higher than this

    ਜੇ ਘਰਿ ਹੋਦੈ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਲਾਮਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਹੀ ॥੮॥੧॥
    jae ghar hodhai mangan jaaeeai fir oulaamaa milai thehee ||8||1||
    If someone goes out to beg for what is already in his own home, then he should be chastised. ||8||1||

    So Kalyug is not about a geological period in time. Kalyug can happen at any time when we forget that we already possess the gift of goodness or that it dwells within us. We create the darkness of Kalyug when we do not recognize that goodness comes from Creator who created dharma. We can give it away; but it cannot be erased by the passage of time, or taken away by another.
    Ishna, gs1313, Tejwant Singh and 7 others like this.
  4. dalbirk

    Expand Collapse
    Supporter SPNer

    May 24, 2008
    Likes Received:
    A very good explanation by Narayanjot Ji . My heartiest thanks to her .
  5. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh
    Expand Collapse
    Writer Contributor SPNer

    Jun 30, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Narayanjot ji,

    Guru fateh.

    Very well said and explained. No one could have done a better job.

    Thanks very much for your tremendous efforts and for the wonderful elaboration of the Shabad.


    Tejwant Singh
    spnadmin likes this.
Similar Threads Forum Date
Controversial Pakhandi Babe - Kalyug da Bhanna Hard Talk Jan 30, 2007

Share This Page