Kala Afghana: Discussion Redux

[spnadmin]

Veerji, Guru fateh !!
All those who argue to lengthen the issue of Dasam Granth, should you not quote the earlier research like one attached haerwith. Even than if they discuss are not they uttering like parrots every alternative day. Why so.? What proves they want? were the eminent members of committee set up in 1915 by Singh sabha which gave its final verdict left any doubt? Please stop discussing this issue now. Instead of it you should give a new thread to discuss and to improve our knowledge.
Thanks.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

Ajmer ji

I agree with you in your quote above and also with Gyani ji in the previous post. There is a lot to say about Dasam Granth and it can be said on its own terms and in its own place. Unfortunately, as you point out, researched and dependable research is rarely used in the discussions and a parrot mentality takes over.

There are those who fight because fighting is the only thing that gives them satisfaction. We need to be serious about these questions.

But it is funny - because last night before I went to bed I was thinking along the same lines as you. Why is it that the discussion of Kala Afghana's questions regarding Adi Granth and the discussion of the authenticity of all or parts of Dasam Granth cannot at least sometimes be kept separate. They are really for the most part two entirely different issues with two entirely different bodies of research and scholarship to consider. Yes there is some overlap-- but those FEW aspects where the controversies overlap are constantly recycled and the discussions based on this OVERLAP are also recycled everywhere a person looks. This does nothing to nurture an atmosphere for people to learn, ask quesitons, get questions answered, and draw conclusions in a rational way.

And it turns people off period. They just walk away. They give up.

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyani ji,
I a feel oblized, by so much affection, by such an intelligent person of Gurbaani de vidwan that i really admire you. No doubt Guru Sahab has blessed me by his grace to recite thy name and pass my life chanting his name but when i see people raising silly question which have been already answered almost in every century and every decade. Even than they question without looking into past. That provokes.
If Sant Singh ji Maskeen is no more someone will be sent to fill that gap by Akal Purakh but the messages, research and other valuable scripts whatever he has given to Panth, are accepted and approved by Panth and he has been honrd by 'Panth ratan'. So after two or three decades or more than that if some one again raises the questions, what would you feel. Whether Sant maskeen ji will become a failure of the past or shall be honrd as today, like Bhai Veer Singh ji.
The place of intellects shall never remain vacant. It is Guru who always sends someone to feed our psychic need.We should find the curious answer given in the past by the intellectuals of Sikh Panth instead of questioning like uttering a parrot.
That's what i have to say. We all are doing our duties to awaken the youths with their glorious past in the hope of a bright future and high spirit (chardi kalaa) of Panth.
Sangtan da daas,
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Guru Piayare Ajmer singh ji, aad ji..and others
Gurfateh.

MY TAKE on all this RE-HASHING..is WHY ?? why all the BOTHER.
It is well known that FALSEHOOD has no FEET..it Cannot LAST. TRUTH ALWAYS OUT.
GURU NANAK JI SAHIB HIMSELF tells us THIS about TRUTH..it never fades, loses colour, gets old, torn or out of date.
SO if..I say IF..a Bhag Singh Ambala came along and questioned the DSM Granth with ONE Book.....Bhai Gurbakhs Singh Kala Afghana came along and wrote TEN Books..many others also wrote not only BOOKS but also offered a REWARD of TEN LAKH Rupees to anyoen who cna prove that the writer of dsm Granth is Guur Gobind Singh Ji....SO WHAT ?? IF these people are all FRAUDS..telling lies..have no basis..what are we AFRAID OF ?? Why go to extrereme knee jerk reactions like excommunicate them, villify them, take a microscope and digg durt on their personal lives to discredit them....and form so called Human Rights Organsiations that DECIDE on DSm Granth ( Human Rights !! not Scripture Rights ??) set up Orgs and Coms and Nets on the Internet etc etc to "prove" something that NEEDS NO PROOF ?? Why not let the FALSEHOOD FALL ON ITS OWN ??
WHY DISRUPT DIWANS in the August hazooree of SGGS to "shut up" speakers of Falsehood ?? WHEN literally THOUSANDS of SANT BABAS DAILY SPEAK GIANT UNTRUTHS, falsify our Gurus, Gurbani etc all over the world..WHY all thsi energy not spent to DISRUPT these DERAS...You Tube is full of these FAKE SAADHS...not a single Video to EXPOSE THEM ?? These snats have NOTHING to say about Gumatt..all about themsleves ONLY.
APRADHEE DUNNA NIVEH..all this super quick actiona dn shouting from the rooftops about the dsm garnth etc reveals that ALL is NOT WELL..DAAL wich kujh kaala zaroor hai..and that fear is DRIVING ALL THIS...SIKHS are being DIVIDED and made WEAK...
SO UNTIL the TRUTH COMES OUT..and it will eventually..agaisnt all odds..then ONLY will this controversy die down..until then it si FUTILE for you and me to sigh and sigh...Jaang Hind Punjab da honn laggah..Patshahi Faujaan dovehn bhareean nai....Similar situation...I just watched the Hsoheenna video on the latest Fiasco in a New York Gurdwara..the DSM Granth suporter Sant hari Singh and Ex Jathedar Akla Takhat Prof darshan Singh Ji are BOTH SEATED and ready to DEBATE LIVE on DSM Granth which will eb RECORDED..what happens..the USUAL HULLARR BAZEE by the Pro dsm garnth GROUP DISRUPTS the Diwan with SHOUTING matches taking palce while the Gurdwara Parbhandaks are Speakign on Stage, the Sangat si SEATEd and SGGS is parkash...then Hari Singh comes on stage and says that the DSM granth issue is not to be discussed becasue of a Hukmnama by akla tkahat bannign such..THEN WHAT WAS he doing sitting at the table by the side of Prof darshan Singh Ji ?? Didnt he know of the 2003 Hukmanma which by the way was superceded by another one INSTRUCTING the Defender s of DSM Granth to COUNTER antidsm propoganda.... and DEFEND it agaisnt those denegrating it. The Clear impression given in a Live vodeo recorded LIVE is that TRUTH was VICTORIOUS...
A Gursikh always DEFENDS the TRUTH...we must ALL go on defending the TRUTH. Falsehood will Fall by the wayside without any help from anybody...and best of all Falsehood cannot be defended successfully.... hence calls to shut up..stop debating...stop this..stop that...all this never worked before..will never work....because TRUTH MUST SURFACE and TRIUMPH .:happy::happy::happy:

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyani ji,
There is not much left to speak on this issue which has no end. Aad ji if send you the copy of history and compilation of Dasam Granth by Dr. Trilochan Singh published in Sikh review in 1955. That will be enough to answer the critics.
These are the methods of cheap publicity to invite the intention of whole community on violating compositions. Naturally some will favor and some oppose. That's what Kaala Afgana and his friends have opted. I find nothing to answer those violators of conduct and regulations (Discipline/rahat) of Sikh religion. They certainly need to be punished. Thanks God they are not from Muslim faith otherwise they could not see the next sun rise of their life.
Guru Fateh !!
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

<<<<<<<<<<Thanks God they are not from Muslim faith otherwise they could not see the next sun rise of their life.>>>>>>>>>>>>

THIS can be misconstrued as a THREAT to LIFE. Not to be treated lightly.

Many such threats in fact have been issued by SIKHS...to other SIKHS.
SIKHISM is about Sarbatt da Bhalla and about FREEDOM OF SPEECH...RESPECT the others right to OPINION. No body has the power to JUDGE another SIKH's right to see another sun rise or sink. Guru Ji will judge each and everyone of us...

2. There is no proof that any GURU JI ever forced his beleifs on anyone/thretened them with.."not able to see another sun rise"......or in any way behaved like the fundamentalists that treat humans as animals fit only to follow their way or face death.

3. There is no proof as well that such death threats work....they DONT. and are counter productive. They show that some quarters are willing to let go of REASON and resort to VIOLENCE to Ram their "religious beleifs" down the throats of others..:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyani ji, Guru Fateh !!
Neither i am blind fanatic nor believer. What i see , i just say but i know the limits. This is in the pretext that Sikhs are not fanatics and fundamentalists like Muslims. If they had been, whatsoever is written could be proved right.
Please don' distract the thread by bifurcating the right path of devotion.Freedom of speech is there but by taking its cover we can't abuse others.Similarly i know one thing when Dasam patshah says ,"Raaj bina nahin dharam chale hai Dharam bina sab daley maley hai !!" What do you mean of it ?Daley-maley itself referes all this malpractice too. When there is not your raaj so there is not any religious discipline could be found among followers. Is not it the same that the unnecessary arguments doesn't end. In one or other pretext, you keep this matter alive. What do you want to prove this way? Are you also a supporter of Kala Afgana or from his team of violators ?
If so i won't have to say anything more.
Regards.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[spnadmin]

Ajmer ji

Where I myself have gone wrong is in thinking that it is possible to iron out differences ABOUT DISCUSSION between and among reasonable people. I apologize to Gyani ji for failing to see my part in helping a discussion go sour.

Even though I think that the controversies regarding both Kala Afghana and Dasam Granth go over the cliff in terms of lack of reason and the absence of plain good will, discussions should not be squelched. Sikhi is about discussion. Sikhi is not about SILENCING people who have a point of view.

Let me just repeat my main point -- "Why is it that the discussion of Kala Afghana's questions regarding Adi Granth and the discussion of the authenticity of all or parts of Dasam Granth cannot at least sometimes be kept separate. They are really for the most part two entirely different issues with two entirely different bodies of research and scholarship to consider. Yes there is some overlap-- but those FEW aspects where the controversies overlap are constantly recycled and the discussions based on this OVERLAP are also recycled everywhere a person looks. This does nothing to nurture an atmosphere for people to learn, ask quesitons, get questions answered, and draw conclusions in a rational way."


When a person disputes the authenticity of all or part of Dasam Granth -- that does not automatically make that individual a supporter of Kala Afghana. When a person even so much as mentions a point made by Kala Afghana or chooses to discuss it, that does not automatically make that person a subversive who is undermining Aad Granth or the 10th Nanak.

Again, apologies Gyani ji.

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Aad ji, Guru fateh !!
I agree what you say, I don't feel any enemity with gyani ji or any other member of forum. What i meant is going through all the mails it appeared if he is favoring the violators. It was because of his narration to the topic though i admire him and a fan of him but to question straight forwardly is not disrespect to him.
Sometimes i can't understand the hint/comment hidden beneath the writing si i get confused.
I send my apology to great intellectual of Sikhism-Gyani ji, i didn't mean to hurt him but certainly i questioned him.
Regards.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Aad ji, Guru Fateh !!
I would like to start a new reasonable thread to all the intelligent members of this forum to discuss the 'CHAUTHA PAD'. Guru Arjan Dev Ji says in 'SUKHMANI SAHIB' as, "Kar kirpa jis aapne naam laaey !! Naanak chauthe pad main se jan gat paeen !!
So please define this chautha pad and tell how can one avail this in his life. As i don't see any Brahmgyani around me now-a -days.
Regards.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[spnadmin]

Aad ji, Guru fateh !!
I agree what you say, I don't feel any enemity with gyani ji or any other member of forum. What i meant is going through all the mails it appeared if he is favoring the violators. It was because of his narration to the topic though i admire him and a fan of him but to question straight forwardly is not disrespect to him.
Sometimes i can't understand the hint/comment hidden beneath the writing si i get confused.
I send my apology to great intellectual of Sikhism-Gyani ji, i didn't mean to hurt him but certainly i questioned him.
Regards.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

Ajmer ji - It is NOT that Gyani is favoring "violators." He is favoring an open dialog -- which is the only way to get all the information out and to critique that which needs to be criticised with facts reason anc common sense. I have myself been in hot water for the same reason on other threads. By squelching dialog nothing is gained. That is how oppressive governments and religions operate, and that is not Sikhi.

Please go ahead and start the new thread. If you need any assistance send me a pm.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

My Guru is Guru Granth sahib Ji the only one but i read Baani of dasam granth also in Nitnem daily and Bacitar naatak, if you deny the authenticity of Dasam Granth written by Guru Gobind Singh, certainly you challenge tha authenticity of Hemkunt Sahib also.

Ajmer Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Pardon my ignorance but I am confused by your statement,"if you deny the authenticity of Dasam Granth written by Guru Gobind Singh, certainly you challenge tha authenticity of Hemkunt Sahib also"


Can you please elaborate it a bit from Gurmat point of view? Please keep in mind that our only benchmark is SGGS.

Thanks.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Gyani ji, Guru fateh !! I wonder an intellectual person like you is giving us a frightning thought of Kala Afgana. No, Singh ji, we aren't afraid of him or his ghost.This is in reference to all those excommunicated persons who are punished for their anti-panthic activities. Some other friends of them when stand to oppose the decision or raise a finger, favors them then it become necessary to refer. such person/s.
Hari Singh Nalwa was a great General of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and it was Ranjit singh who presented himself before Akal Takhat and accepted the punishment of whips.
Could Kala Afgana or his so-called friends dare to behave in that manner and accept the decision of Akal Takhat?
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

Ajmer Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Now, you should be able to respond to all the questions about Ex-communication as posted by me in the start of this thread. I, myself and other members asked the same quesitons to Inder Singh ji who has gotten quiet all of a sudden, so I need your help and your Gurmat wisdom to understand all about ex-communication from the Gurmat viewpoint.

Hoping to learn from you.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Gyani ji, Guru Fateh !!
Neither i am blind fanatic nor believer. What i see , i just say but i know the limits. This is in the pretext that Sikhs are not fanatics and fundamentalists like Muslims. If they had been, whatsoever is written could be proved right.
Please don' distract the thread by bifurcating the right path of devotion.Freedom of speech is there but by taking its cover we can't abuse others.Similarly i know one thing when Dasam patshah says ,"Raaj bina nahin dharam chale hai Dharam bina sab daley maley hai !!" What do you mean of it ?Daley-maley itself referes all this malpractice too. When there is not your raaj so there is not any religious discipline could be found among followers. Is not it the same that the unnecessary arguments doesn't end. In one or other pretext, you keep this matter alive. What do you want to prove this way? Are you also a supporter of Kala Afgana or from his team of violators ?
If so i won't have to say anything more.
Regards.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

Guur Piayare Veer Ajmer Singh Ji,
Gurfateh.

Its NOT true to say the issues have no end. They all have an END..and thats where the buck stops...at the TRUTH. So until that stage is reached..there will continue to be those who seek the TRUTH. Each and everyone has his own way to the TRUTH..and we have no right to judge where the person is...who actually knows who is right and up to where. ALL this began long ago...DECADES have passed...no end in sight...because the TRUTH is still OUT THERE....and the TRUTH MUST reach ALL...IT took the "enemy" to spread Falsehood..at least 200 years.. with FAKE history ( Bhai bala Janamsakhi.....ANONYMOUSLY under Gurbilas pat Chhevin.....addition of false sakhis, miracles, fake history....Fake banis from Guru Angad jis time and even RIGHT UNDER GURU ARJUN JIS Nose (Bhai banno). Bhai banno wasnt AFRAID of scrilege..wasnt afraid Guru Ji woudl be angry ?? IF Bhai banno could attempt it in spite of the Fact that Guru Ji is still alive...others wrote KACHEE BANI..prompting Guru Amardass ji to WARN SIKHS...
Fake Laetters of Bhai mani Singh..Fake rehitnamahs, Hukmanmahs, etc etc and all...has been going on for CENTURIES.... One of the earliest Translations into Modern punjabi of GBP6 was done by my Teacher GYANI INDER SINGH GILL of Malaysia....and then another one by Joginder Singh Vedanti.( ALSO IN MALAYSIA at the SAME GUrdwara that Gyani inder singh wrote his translation) .and RECOMMENDED by the Akal takhat jathedar for KATHA IN ALL GURDWARAS !! Just READ the TRUTH about this BOOK..and WHY and WHEN it was FORCED to be WITHDRAWN...and then subsequerntly REISSUED after the MESSENGER who warned us about it was EXCOMMUNICATED and put OUT of the WAY. IS that How we work ?? I DIDNT read it...my Teacher didnt read it...60 years have passed...BUT the TRUTH CANNOT BE DENIED..its THERE !!! IT TOOK 60 YEARS for the TRUTH to surface !!! and it took a YEAR to SHOOT the MESSENGER.

IF one wants to read one sided opinions"...then one can go visit sites like "panthic weekly"..and various others named after our August Dasm patshahi, Dasam Pita. There you will find ONLY ONE POINT OF VIEW...no others allowed/permitted. There you will also find that the EX-Jathedar of Akal Takhat being addressed as "Darshan Ragi"..others being addressed as "so and so SINH"...etc. WHY this abuse..simply becasue these people DONT SUBSCRIBE to their view !! Who has the RIGHT to WITHDRAW the Name SINGH given by the PANJ PIYARE ?? Only people who are FALSE will resort to NAME CALLING.
SHOW me even One Instance from GURBANI where GURU JI/Bhagt Ji etc resort to Name Calling...to put their points across...has Babar been called Babru ?? Akbaru ? Did Guru Ji call Jehangir ....Jahangiru ?? WE SIKHS DO that when we dont like the person !!! WHY cant we be like GURU JI..whose SIKHS we claim we are ?? However i didnt find any oen person even complaining that Jathedar Darshan Singh ji is beign called darshan ragi ?? IS that HOW we respect an EX Jathedar of the SAME AKAL TAKHAT thta we cry and shout about ?? Darshan Singh was NOT SACKED like many others..He RESIGNED when he found that he couldnt FUNCTION as AKALI PHOOLA SINGH !! Rather than become a Lap dog chamcha he RESIGNED. And he carries on Bravely doing what he thinks is RIGHT...DEBATE HIM,,DEFEAT HIM wit LOGIC...BOOKS..Articles..but name calling means those opposing him have LOST LOGIC/REASON..and only know how to SHOUT...OR Bring in the Kala afghana HAOOAH !!! same Tactic as Haria Harooa ??? (Hari singh nalwa). YOU TOO keep on asking posters .."Ae you KA follower ?? are You Kala afghnaist ?? WHY ?? WHY bring in KA name when he is NOT even mentioned by any poster ?? Bhag Singh Ambala said the exact same things...but his time wasnt right..he was too early...NOW the INTERNET has made it possible to REACH the WORLD in seconds..JHOOTH..Falsehood is exposed withn seconds...people all over can read the TRUTH..in www.Rozana spokesman.com...see the TRUTH in You tube videos..Google videos...people cna ask questions..intelligently enquire...the time for BLIND FOLLOWING the BLIND is past...NOW even the BLIND can see due to Computer Power !!! Thats why the BLIND resort to CURSING..excommunicating, threatening..scream and shout..shut up..stop it..no more discussion..end it.. Please GIVE soem CREDIT to SIKHS..they have an INTELLIGENT MIND...AAKllen sahib seveah...they KNOW the TRUTH when they see it..No amount of fakes can cover the TRUTH...the time is Mitee DHUND Jagg Channana HOIYAH..AGAIN after 500 YEARS...

IF you dotn like this..you can go to sites like Singhsabha Canada International..sikhMarg etc etc...THEY Have the OPPOSITE VIEWPOINT...BUT they DONT ABUSE and they DONT discourage DEBATE/DISCUSSIONS. Anyone can send in articles...and they will Print them..BUT the oppsition DONT send in becasue they know the articles will be WELL and ABLY REPLIED to !!

NO one is alwasy right..no one is alwasy wrong..Darshan Singh Ragi may have sung banis form dsm granth many years ago..but he has changed his mind..so putting up videos of him singing such in orert o show that he is unreliable..mind changer actually backfire...becasue it shows that he has the COURAGE to CHANGE...unlike others who keep on syaing aprrampra..tradition..cannot do that..its always that way..etc. Darshan Singh may be WRONG on a hundred and one things...KA may be a crook, fraud, thief..and wrong on a thousand counts...BUT HE HAS RIGHT OF OPINION...and he must be Proved WRONG based on SGGS, gurbani, Logic, Gurmatt..and deciision must be made by the SIKHS..not ON THEIR BEHALF !! and told SHUT UP OR ELSE ???

SIKH PHILOSOPHY SPN is a site that attempts to be Fair, open to all, reasonable discussions, opinions of all are allowed, and has reached a stage where it is a valuable RESOURCE on Sikhi/Gurmatt. This site is visited and read by numbers beyond imagination...it cannot be compromised..or allowed to portray just ONE SIDE. We publish BOTH sides and allow the Intelligent readers to decide on their own...As LONG as some one continues to CLICK on and Visit the various THREADS...they will continue to attract. Each one is welcome to begin New Threads..new thoughts...to BALANCE out everything....and make SPN an even more enjoyable place..a more richer resource...

I welcome your initiative on Chauth pad...its a new and good thread..Please give your views and experiences..and others will follow...BUT please remember..SPN's Golden Rule..Each opinion is a VALUED ONE. Thnak you and keep in Chardeekalla laways...we are all GURSIKHS of the same Pita - Guru nanak-Guru GobindSingh-Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

 

[spnadmin]

Because it is summer break, and the week is shorter now, I feel freer now to search, read and think. So after work I began to surf the Internet for hard scholarship on Dasam Granth -- abiding by forum leader Randip Singh's call to avoid the propaganda sites. In my travels I found this remark and it sums up what I believe needs to guide any discussion that is controversial by its own nature.

"The ultimate test of a civilised society according to the Sikh doctrine of Anekta meh ekta (Unity in variety) is its capacity for diversity. It is to accept the richness of God’s creation in all its variety. This was the concept which evolved the final and distinct form of the Khalsa Panth of Guru Nanak/Gobind tradition. Through its own unique identity, the Khalsa Panth, the Order of the Sikhs of the Guru (correct translation discussed below), has continued to assert the rights of individuals, communities and cultures to be different by free choice without transgressing the rights of others. Nay, Guru Tegh Bahadhur, the Ninth Master, went so far as to give his own life for others, the Hindus of India in that case, so that their religious and cultural identity could be preserved. This was a unique sacrifice by the head of one religion to protect another’s way of life." Gurmukh Singh at A Question of Identity

This "unique identity" of Sikhs rises first and foremost from our adherence to Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Is it not reasonable for those of us who feel very grounded in and supported by this eternal Guru to also be confident enough to express our views freely and honor the same freedom for others?

So it is hard for me to understand, given these words, why there would be only 2 sides to an argument. Kala Afghana had specific questions regarding the authorship of the Dasam Granth. These can all be listed, read, absorbed in memory and then put to one side as one wishes. There are many other individuals who have other equally specific questions regarding the authorship of the Dasam Granth. Yet they are not supporters of Kala Afghana. Who can explain to me why this happens so ofte? It remains a mystery why lumping all critics in one basket - and then denouncing them as all the dupes of Kala Aghana - continues on and on.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

AAD JI..
are YOU a Kala Afghanist ?? I am not joking ...
imho..you are well on the way to being labeled one....dont say i didnt warn YOU....anyone..i mean ANYONE..who looks the slightest like asking/going to ask...a question related to dsm granth....becomes fair game for this label..on the Internet.in Seminars/Media/You Tube videos... these days THAT Label is the One most in use...similar to the COMMUNIST Label in Mc Carthy days.
IF you go further..and perhaps write a book...then its alls fair in love and war...anything goes.
Looks like we are being asked to have BLIND BELIEF....

No one seems to love the Guru provided solution...
ROS NA KEEJEH...UTTAR DEEJEH...
DONT BE ANNOYED...PROVIDE THE ANSWERS !!!

Jarnail Singh

PS. Why is asking/going to ask..underlined ? Some take them to MEAN the SAME !!! BEWARE !!

Anecdotal evidence.

Once a Man was arraigned before aMagistrate..Charged with Beating his wife.
Your Honour..the man pleaded..I DID NOT BEAT MY WIFE..I was "GOING TO (beat my wife).
What RUBBISH..replied the Leraned Judge...thats beating about the bush..there is NO DIFFERENCE. Fined 500 Pounds. Next Case.

Twenty minutes later the Same Man was dragged into the Court. He refuses to pay the Fine Your Honour..the Court Clerk explained.

Your Honour..Thats a LIE...I WAS "GOING TO" (pay the fine)..and thats it.
Since Your Honour just decided that BEATING and GOING TO beat are the Same..I submit that Going to and Paying the fine are the Same thing. SO I have "Paid" for "Beating" my wife.

The Judge said Fine Paid..case completed. NEXT.:welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome::welcome:

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Veer Tejwant Singh ji, gueu fateh !!
You yourself is a wise person and you know that their couldn't be any reference of Hemkunt in Guru Granth Sahab ji, Than why do you ask me this silly question. This has come out and searched on behalf Bachitar Naatak(Dasam Granth).
My version was ,"clould there be anyother person other than Guru Gobind Singh ji to predict the signs of surrounding peaks and lake where Guru ji meditated in Satyug as Dusht Daman, without visiting there? Which clearly indicates that this Bachitar Natak was written by Guru ji himself.
You please see a report published by a great historian Dr. Trilochan Singh in Sikh review in 1955, which leaves no doubt that whole Dasam Granth was written by Guruji Himself. The names ofthe poets Ram, Shyam,Gobind, Govind etc. were also Guruji's nicknames. It has been certified in that report.
Moreover This discussion is not fruiteful as we have no theological authority other than exchanging our thoughts and we are not allowed to discuss Dasam Granth by Akal Takhat.
Certainly Baadal has lowered the staus of Jathedar of Akal Takhat but Baadal has no power to degrade the status of Akal takhat which is always supreme for devoted Sikhs.
Regards.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

AAD JI,
Gurfateh.

Could you please MOVE this section On Chautha Padd to a NEW Thread.( 2 posts only)
Its not part of KA redux thread.

Thanks Ji.:welcome:

 

[spnadmin]

AAD JI,
Gurfateh.

Could you please MOVE this section On Chautha Padd to a NEW Thread.( 2 posts only)
Its not part of KA redux thread.

Thanks Ji.:welcome:

Gyani ji

Yes i will start a thread for Chautha Padd -- A lot happened over night I can see -- No problem :yes:

 

[Randip Singh]

I have added my views on Dasam Granth Here:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/25416-my-views-on-dasam-granth.html

Feel free to add comments.

 

[spnadmin]

AAD JI..
are YOU a Kala Afghanist ?? I am not joking ...

No one seems to love the Guru provided solution...
ROS NA KEEJEH...UTTAR DEEJEH...
DONT BE ANNOYED...PROVIDE THE ANSWERS !!!

Jarnail Singh

Gyani ji

I have already been accused of being a kala afghanist on this forum, nearly a year ago, in a similar kind of discussion. I was accused because randip singh ji quoted me after I quoted something I found on Wikipedia written by someone who quoted kala afghana and BTW was a CRITIC of Kala Afghana. A QUOTE OF A QUOTE OF A QUOTE. That is how bad the "witch hunt" mentality can get. Repeat something that some said that was actually in support of the opposition, and the opposition brands you (FOR REPEATING WORDS) as a member of the devil's party. I spent the weekend in tears, having been called a heretic and dealing with people who could not even read what was there before them in black and white. How would I continue as a Sikh if this was the way it was going to be? How could i stay on this forum? My husband was livid and so I had to also deal with his emotions because he had no context at all for all this emotionality.

And you know it was a good thing. After that nothing worse could happen to me. I had been through the worse and made it through. All of that taught me this lesson. If you have unshakable belief in Sri Guru Granth Sahib and the teachings of Guru Nanak, then you read anything, ask anything, quote anything, discuss anything, trade insights with anyone, eat a meal or drink coffee with Kala Afghana himself, and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING 'PATIT' NOTHING HERETICAL NOTHING EVIL WILL HAPPEN TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE YOU KNOW. It is impossible. You will just have to listen to a little name-calling.

(the funny part was I had already decided that Kala Afghana might just be a pseudointellectual)

Well -- now I make it a point to read EVERYTHING I can get my hands on from all sides of the Dasam Granth controversies. There are more than 2 sides to this controversy, and some of the critics are not even distracted by Kala Afghana's ideas. And just to make my final point -- Kala Afghana has written about both the Aad Granth and the Dasam Granth. But somehow these discussions mash everything togther and then it is impossible to follow the thread of a thought.

No I am not a follower of Kala Afghana -- Yes I plan to continue to read both his supporters and his critics.