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Just a few thoughts - Black Magic & Sexuality

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by enigmaoflife, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. enigmaoflife

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    Jul 26, 2005
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    Hello everyone and at the onset warm wishes and best regards to everyone in the forum. I was just surfing through the discussions and perhaps would enjoy sharing a few thoughts.

    It is very enlightening to see many discussions being carried out in the forum and definitely does help the human thinking process to evolve.

    I had been particularly interested in the topics of Sikhism in relation to sexuality and black magic and would enjoy sharing my thoughts on the same.

    I consider myself before anything to be human, when my soul is put in such a limit bound by the constraints of the body I will no doubt be influenced to the limitations of the body (to claim that one as a human will not be influenced by the limitations of the body would be to reject the premise that we are humans) which is quite contradictory in itself.

    So start of with BLACK MAGIC, it is not something that has been created in a day or two or solely by one human being it is something that has progressed from centuries on perhaps from a point when there weren't very many religions to begin with. Just as Vedic Astrology is a knowledge that has been given to us by seers and holds good depending on the WAY WE USE IT, in a similar fashion BLACK MAGIC is as put by many members of the forum NEGATIVE ENERGY. There is a well known verse :

    We believe in light because of darkness, we believe in happiness because of unhappiness, so if we believe in God then we have to believe in the Devil.

    Everything exists equally in the world, from the very minor entities like atoms to the universe, we have equal and opposing energies. So to claim that one energy does not exist because our beliefs do not allow such a thing would be trying to become narrow minded and this would led to a termination of evolution as we know it.

    We must be willing to learn and evolve, ofcourse the final choice rests in our mind as to how much importance we give to something and how much we refrain from accepting it. There is a strong distinction between Spirituality and Religion. With Spirituality we are cleaning our SOUL ENERGY and improving our minds. With religion (it provides us the path) but its like a color glass, everyone sees different from different perspective based on different rules. This does not make any religion right or wrong. It's only a way of GOD to test how humans can see the final GOAL in-spite of variations in the path. Some of Us get lost in the complexities of Religion and begin to argue claiming that we are right and the others are wrong or that we cannot reserve the right to follow anything besides what's mentioned in our own religion which I believe is a falsified view. I think we should accept the viewpoint of ALL RELIGIONS and try to UNDERSTAND THEM without ourselves ending in a perplexing situation. Obviously, initially it will happen, but with proper Godly guidance and dedicated effort we will begin to see the fine string of logic that binds them all. Things like

    1. Do onto others what you would onto yourself.
    2. Don't harm other humans.
    3. Sharing and giving : )

    these found, on reading many religions, would be some common things that we would find.

    Things like Black Magic, Astrology, stars and rituals can be respected. There is no harm in respecting them and learning about them (USE IT FOR GOOD ) because learning is evolution. Why do we have to claim that if one learns about MAGIC one forgets GOD. Ofcourse the MAGIC only gets black when you harm someone using that negative energy. Till then its only pure knowledge to be shared and cherish for human evolution. Same goes with astrology.

    On the nature of Sexuality, we are all humans, and we are bound to our desires, sexuality weather than be hetero or homo, is a reaction of our bodies to hormones. There are many who try to control it yet cannot, its just like hunger....which is a desire too. We need food, similar we need affection, touch , and sexuality form or satisfies such a humanly trait. Again on the description of lust and love. We need lust for attraction and we need love to sustain that attraction for long periods of time. Ofcourse, Sexuality is equally bad if considered in the limelight of BLACK MAGIC because it can give many diseases and other such things. Yet, in the proper context it can provide a natural way for the human body to function.

    FINALLY, many of the things that happen to us humans is a result of body that we posses. the goal of spiritualism and religion on the most fundamental level is to look beyond the body where the 5 senses do not hold much importance and the 6 sense becomes alive. Many of us try to do the same, with different paths, and obviously many of us fail and we try again. To judge someone based on the mere result would be wrong, to derive conclusions and judgments based on his faith would be wrong as well. To discriminate against true knowledge and ideas would be egotistical to say the least. So we should learn to accept and forgive. It's a hard concept, yet it is very fundamental to all religions.

    We as humans are in no position to judge, (I'm being hypocritical) cause there are many times that I become judgmental myself, yet I ask for Forgiveness and seek light and TRUTH. I try not to commit the same mistakes time and again, mistakes make me a human and learning to not make them again and again makes me achieve God and Truth. There are certain limits my body has to obey, like eating food etc. I have to confine myself to those limits and at the same time I try to achieve God, with constant disciple to the best of my abilities.

    Only when the heart realizes, the TRUTH and begins to believe in it can a person begin to change. Experiences that we encounter will decide that, nothing in the world can be a substitute to DIRECT EXPERIENCE.

    Thanks and best wishes for letting me share my viewpoints.
    #1 enigmaoflife, Jul 27, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2005
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  3. S|kH

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    Jul 11, 2004
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    First, I'd like to welcome you to the forum.

    To discuss "Black Magic" and the examples you give that if someone believes in good (God) they must believe in bad (Devil) otherwise they are narrow-minded is word-play.

    You do not necessarily need to believe in bad just because you believe in God. There can be God with no devil, unless of course the devil is present in the absence of God. Similarly, you could believe in the opposite view point, its just a matter of wordplay.

    For example, we know we have light, and darkness is just a mere word for the absence of light. You do not need to BELIEVE darkness exists on its own, but can be just used as a word for the absence of the other.

    Another example is that 'good' exists, and therefore bad is just the absence of good, but not an entity on its own. Bad is only present where good can not reach, but Bad can not reach on its own will because its not its own entity.

    I am just trying to explain how some people can believe in God but not the devil, can believe in Light but not the Dark.

    I also disagree slightly with your sexual desire references. Comparing that to the desire of hunger is a very limited comparison. For example, we need food on a day-to-day basis to survive and remain alive, the desire for hunger must be quenched daily or almost-daily. Whereas the desire for sexuality is present in hormones which bring it about daily, but this desire does not need to be met daily, as surviving your genes is only necessary a few times to create offspring (but, I'm not saying you should limit sexual activity to just that). And referring to love being the attachment that keeps lust sustained for a long period of time would be inaccurate from my point of view. Lust is when the sexual desire that everyone has controls you, in which it becomes a daily activity you engage in with no thought for spiritual/mental/physical consequences. Love is the control of that desire to present to one human being in an attempt to increase spiritual/mental/physical health.

    Your other points in your post are valid and a nice way of thinking :)
    #2 S|kH, Jul 27, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2005
  4. enigmaoflife

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    Jul 26, 2005
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    Thanks for welcoming. I appreciate the feedback you have provided. I would like to humbly appeal the fact that the analogy of light and darkness is not mere word play. It is wot I refer to the importance of the other opposite, not necessarily a good opposite but something which needs to be there so that humans realize the importance of one thing.

    It's an old wise folk lore that we never know how much we miss something till we have lost it. The basic flaw or whatever you like to term it exits within the human realm of consciousness. For instance, imagine if the sun shone day in and day out 24/7 and 365 days a year. Would u like it? I'm sure you would seek darkness, coolness and lighter weather. Weather you create it artificially or naturally is irrespective. But nonetheless you will wish to seek a change.

    I'm a similar fashion imagine if you were having happiness day in and day out, to you it would mean nothing it would basically absolutely nothing was giving to achieve it making it a boring concept. In a similar fashion a human being has to go through pain or devil to realize God. It can happen vice versa too...Hence we have to accept in the existence of the devil (the limits and form is totally upto an individual) let me refer to it as negative energy rather than devil. So every human has to go through negative energy to realize the value of positive. Other wise we might see God and still fail to recognize him in-spite of all the books we have read and all the rituals we have done. As I said, Direct experience, usually in order to rise to the top, one has to learn the meaning of bottom, because in this world of relative conditions we can only relate top to some sort of bottom.

    So thats wot I stated in my earlier post. Similarly bringing in sexuality or black magic. Valmiki the great saint was a car robber before his enlightenment. Buddha the great was a married man before seeking hermitage. Similarly every individual tries to seek answers and the enlightened beings help us to seek enlightenment. But it is a point to be noted, no one is born Enlightened, everyone seeks it...why they seek it, their circumstances and the society around them along with Godly energy, positive energy compels them too. Everyone cannot do this or else the requisite and rhythm of life would spoil. Yet, as humans, we try to follow the optimal path to seek such, and one cannot conclude that a homo sexual or heterosexual or any such thing makes a person bad. Perhaps it is God's will in the manifestation that wanted him to be such perhaps his past births who konws..I don't think anyone knows and its worthless tring to find it.

    But wot I feel is, if a person sincerely regrets for his actions and tries to change them, even though it would take time but as long as there is sincerity and complete devotion and a clear consiouness...then I feel the motive of life would be close to served.

    Who do u think would be better a person who never divorces and beats his wife day in and day out or a person who prefers divorce so that both couples can be happy. The answer is not very simple. In-fact most of the answers we seek are not simple at all, yet we are quick and firm in our judgments which surprises me.

    God bless and take care
    #3 enigmaoflife, Jul 27, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2005
  5. Lee

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    May 17, 2005
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    Hello Cyber Sangat,

    Hello Enigmaoflife,

    Black magic, God, and the devil, and Sikhi. Heh good choice of discussion topic you old dog you ;~)

    Okay first off so that you know I come to Sikh via Paganism, I was a Pagan of various likes for 20 odd years, and have been Sikh now for 4-5 years.

    Black magic as defined by Alister Crowley is any magic that is not designed to get in touch with your holy guardian angel. What AC meant by this was God. So any magic that is not designed to help you get closer to God is black magic.

    In Sikhi we don't believe in the devil, in fact God has no enemies. However if you realize that the word Satan, which is the original biblical word for the devil, is translated as adversary, then we get the idea that the devil is an adversary. But who's Gods, no of course not, but ours, humans kinds. Then the devil is the Satan, or the adversary which stops us reaching God.

    In Sikhi this adversary is our ego, human ego is the Satan, the devil.

    So what does this Satan do to stop us? makes us concentrate too much on Earthy doings and pleasures, like sexuality, and magical practices.

    I hope this makes sense and helps to clarify the Sikh position.


    #4 Lee, Jul 27, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2005
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