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Jiddu Krishnamurthi

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by spnadmin, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Life After Death?

    Krishnamurti!

    No one has mentioned him in my little world for more than 20 years. You are a lot younger than I am. When did you first find out about Krishnamurti? :) If you don't want to write it here, you could tell me on Visitor Messages. I am so curious to know. One of my closest friends was a devotee ...we lost touch. I could never understand what Krishnamurti was talking about :D, but nonetheless respect him.
     
  2. Sinister

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    Re: Life After Death?

    :happy: YES that is Jiddu Krishnamurthi, a great thinker of our time.

    I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I will just post it here for everyone

    I am surprised how very few people know of him…it’s the same in my immediate network. An absolute shame… (maybe we should have separate thread to arouse awareness of his philosophy)

    True story;
    I was introduced to his works via an uncle/fate, about 1 year back, who had his book in his study/library. I just read the title, it was called “Flight of the Eagle”, it just captured my attention (I thought it was some trash literature I could waste time on…I was not expecting philosophy). So, I just laxly picked it up and started browsing through the pages and liked what little I read (I took it home with me and read it from page to page at least twice…it was a small book). I am not a ‘devotee’ (I think Mr. K wouldn’t approve of such a relationship)…but I am fond of his work. It is sometimes difficult to understand but once you get the gist of it, it does make you feel ‘grand?’/ relaxed/ informed.

    The second book I read of his was “The Awakening of Intelligence” (which, by the way, is available online) as an e book on scribd.com (as are many others)...(but i hate reading on a computer screen)

    Thanks to the wonders of youtube I can actually listen to him. He has very kind words and is phenomenal in relaying his thoughts (without paper)…an absolute joy to listen to. Always calms me down and his words stimulate plenty of thought. The awakening of intelligence is actually just excerpts from a discourse/lecture/sitting (if I remember correctly)….which is something that amazes me…an entire book from a live ‘session?’ of him speaking and then taking questions (And if you are familiar with his philosophy then a person comes to an understanding why he did everything in this setting).

    There are some books that I did not like of his…but I won’t delve into my opinion on them here.

    okey dokey, im out aad ji.

    C h e e r s
     
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  3. Admin Singh

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    This deserved a new topic dedicated to Jiddu Krishnamurthi.
     
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  4. Tejwant Singh

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    Truth is a Pathless Land by Jiddu Krishnamurti

    What follows is the speech made by Jiddu Krishnamurti in 1929 when he dissolved the Order of the Star. The Order of the Star was the organisation built around Krishnamurti by Theosophists who selected him at the age of 13 to be the vehicle for the return of the Christ, or Maitreya. He was raised accordingly, but after his enlightment, he refused the role that has been prepared for him, disbanded the organisation of which he was the head, and continued to teach on his own. His speech was made during the Dutch Camp of Ommen, in front of more than three thousand Star members, and with many thousands of Dutch people listening on the radio. Many of the concepts that are present in this speech are worth to be pondered upon in the light of almost 70 years of spiritual history.

    We are going to discuss this morning the dissolution of the Order of the Star. Many will be delighted, and others will be rather sad. It is a question neither for rejoicing nor for sadness, because it is inevitable, as I am going to explain...

    I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organised; nor should any organisation be formed to lead or coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organise a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organise it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallised; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others.

    This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley...

    So that is the first reason, from my point of view, why the Order of the Star should be dissolved. In spite of this, you will probably form other Orders, you will continue to belong to other organisations searching for Truth. I do not want to belong to any organisation of a spiritual kind; please understand this...

    If an organisation be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery for himself of that absolute, unconditioned Truth. So that is another reason why I have decided, as I happen to be the Head of the Order, to dissolve it.

    [​IMG]
    Krishnamurti's during his speech dissolving the Order of the Star.


    This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking. I will tell you for what reason I do this; not because I desire a following, not because I desire a special group of special disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellow-men, however ridiculous, absurd and trivial their distinctions, may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality.

    Nor is it the lure of money, nor the desire to live a comfortable life, which attracts me. If I wanted to lead a comfortable life I would not come to a Camp or live in a damp country! I am speaking frankly because I want this settled once and for all. I do not want these childish discussion year after year.

    A newspaper reporter, who interviewed me, considered it a magnificent act to dissolve an organisation in which there were thousands and thousands of members. To him it was a great act because he said: "What will you do afterwards, how will you live? You will have no following, people will no longer listen to you." If there are only five people who will listen, who will live, who have their faces turned towards eternity, it will be sufficient. Of what use is it to have thousands who do not understand, who are fully embalmed in prejudice, who do not want the new, but would rather translate the new to suit their own sterile, stagnant selves?....

    Because I am free, unconditioned, whole, not the part, not the relative, but the whole Truth that is eternal, I desire those, who seek to understand me, to be free, not to follow me, not to make out of me a cage which will become a religion, a sect. Rather should they be free from all fears - from the fear of religion, from the fear of salvation, from the fear of spirituality, from the fear of love, from the fear of death, from the fear of life itself. As an artist paints a picture because he takes delight in that painting, because it is his self-expression, his glory, his well-being, so I do this and not because I want any thing from anyone. You are accustomed to authority, or to the atmosphere of authority which you think will lead you to spirituality. You think and hope that another can, by his extraordinary powers - a miracle - transport you to this realm of eternal freedom which is Happiness. Your whole outlook on life is based on that authority.
    You have listened to me for three years now, without any change taking place except in the few. Now analyse what I am saying, be critical, so that you may understand thoroughly, fundamentally....

    For eighteen years you have been preparing for this event, for the Coming of the World Teacher. For eighteen years you have organised, you have looked for someone who would give a new delight to your hearts and minds, who would transform your whole life, who would give you a new understanding; for someone who would raise you to a new plane of life, who would give you new encouragement, who would set you free - and now look what is happening! Consider, reason with yourselves, and discover in what way that belief has made you different - not with the superficial difference of the wearing of a badge, which is trivial, absurd. In what manner has such a belief swept away all unessential things of life? That is the only way to judge: in what way are you freer, greater, more dangerous to every society which is based on the false and the unessential? In what way have the members of this organisation of the Star become different?....

    You are all depending for your spirituality on someone else, for your happiness on someone else, for your enlightenment on someone else.... when I say look within yourselves for the enlightenment, for the glory, for the purification, and for the incorruptibility of the self, not one of you is willing to do it. There may be a few, but very, very few. So why have an organisation?....

    No man from outside can make you free; nor can organised worship, nor the immolation of yourselves for a cause, make you free; nor can forming yourselves into an organisation, nor throwing yourselves into work, make you free. You use a typewriter to write letters, but you do not put it on an alter and worship it. But that is what you are doing when organisations become your chief concern. "How many members are there in it?" That is the first question I am asked by all newspaper reporters. "How many followers have you? By their number we shall judge whether what you say is true or false." I do not know how many there are. I am not concerned with that. If there were even one man who had been set free, that were enough....

    Again, you have the idea that only certain people hold the key to the Kingdom of Happiness. No one holds it. No one has the authority to hold that key. That key is your own self, and in the development and the purification and in the incorruptibility of that self alone is the Kingdom of Eternity....

    You have been accustomed to being told how far you have advanced, what is your spiritual status. How childish! Who but yourself can tell you if you are incorruptible?....
    But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without a beginning and without an end, will walk together with greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand. Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose. Because of that true friendship - which you do not seem to know - there will be real co-operation on the part of each one. And this not because of authority, not because of salvation, but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal. This is a greater thing than all pleasure, than all sacrifice.

    So those are some of the reasons why, after careful consideration for two years, I have made this decision. It is not from a momentary impulse. I have not been persuaded to it by anyone - I am not persuaded in such things. For two years I have been thinking about this, slowly, carefully, patiently, and I have now decided to disband the Order, as I happen to be its Head. You can form other organisations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages, new decorations for those cages. My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free.
    [​IMG]

    Resource: Krishnamurti - Dissolution of the Order of the Star
     
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  5. spnadmin

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    Great idea to make a thread. Thanks Sinister and Aman ji. Now will take my time reading every word with the long article given us by VaheguruSeekr. Hope members enjoy this.
     
  6. Sinister

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    To better explain who and what is Jiddu Krishnamurthi i will post some video's periodically (because this is the best way to hear the message). But i still do recommend reading books.

    To get acquainted:

    To get acquainted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G-7-ZiiM-o&feature=related



    this is a short documentary
    "Truth is a pathless land" -Jiddu Krishnamurthi
    YouTube - Krishnamurti : Role of A Flower. Part 1.

    "My goal is to set man free"
    YouTube - Krishnamurti : Role of A Flower. Part 2.

    "people always want someone to tell them what to do"
    YouTube - Krishnamurti : Role of A Flower. Part 3.


    cheers
     
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  7. spnadmin

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    Thanks, Sinister ji :yes:

    I am watching all of them right now before I do anything else this evening. :eek:
     
  8. Tejwant Singh

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    A thought on Jiddu Krishnamurthi :

    Everything he wrote or said, if you notice, it is full of Gurmat values. Everything he expressed is found in SGGS.

    It is sad to notice that the orthodoxy of Sikhi has turned this beautiful pragmatic way which is based on wills and willnots into a dogmatic one with cans and can nots. But again as Sikhi is the journey of the individual and each of us carry our own spiritual torch, it is up to the individual to cultivate the Gurmat values within.

    In fact if one reads the Bill of Rights... it also echos Gurmat values on every page.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  9. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    VaheguruSeekr ji

    Very true,

    ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਧਾ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਦਸੇ ਰਾਹੈ ਸਭਸੁ ਮੁਹਾਏ ਸਾਥੈ ॥
    naanak andhhaa hoe kai dhasae raahai sabhas muhaaeae saathhai ||
    O Nanak, the one who is blind shows others the way, and misleads all his companions.


    Ang 140
     
  10. Huck_Finn

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    who is blind?
     
  11. spnadmin

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    amarsanghera ji

    If you listen to the first video you will see what "blind" is in reference to. Guru Nanaak was making a point about people who are self-proclaimed experts -- and have religion groupies -- the outcome is a form of bullying and abuse. Krishnamurti was saying something very similar in saying he refused to "lead" anyone. If you listen to the video the sequence of remarks in the last couple of posts will make more sense.
     
  12. pk70

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    Krishnamurti was a good thinker but the fundamental idea to negate ego remained mystery in his writings. As long as one is a master of his own "self"( as he advocates to over come it), all efforts to negate it, remain futile in this context. Weeds cannot be eradicated as long their roots are still there, if Krishnamurti was successful in this regards, it could be an exception but every follower couldn’t/ cannot do it. When I get time I shall point out where I couldn’t agree with him;)
     
  13. Sinister

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    What i find unfortunate about us is that we have already started comparing…exactly what Mr. Krishnamurthi tells us is at the root of mans problem. Man is conditioned to listen for comparing rather than just listening for the sake of listening. He emphasized many times over that the sole goal of listening should be to understand…nothing more (and in this lies the psychological revolution that mankind yearns for and the transcending of fear).

    anyhoo,
    This is a must watch series to get people more familiar:

    YouTube - Krishnamurti A01 (Knowledge & the Transformation of Man

    YouTube - Krishnamurti A02 (Knowledge & the Transformation of Man)

    YouTube - Krishnamurti A03 (Knowledge & the Transformation of Man)

    YouTube - Krishnamurti A04 (Knowledge & the Transformation of Man)

    YouTube - Krishnamurti A05 (Knowledge & the Transformation of Man)

    YouTube - Krishnamurti A06 (Knowledge & the Transformation of Man)

    c h e e r s
     
  14. pk70

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    Comparing doesn’t harm any thing, comparing actually helps. Psychologically comparing without ego( not to beglued to one idea that could be wrong) can lead to the truth. It is the quick judgment on comparing that creates problem. Krishnamurti didn’t have any solution if he didn’t compare; literally he did. Rest when I could give example from his own quotes.:)
     
  15. Sinister

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    i still find it unfortunate:crazy:

    and it is a horrible way to be introduced to his works.
     
  16. Huck_Finn

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    how can you compare till you understand the differences?

    and how can you understand without having a view?

    blank slate?

    aad ji

    thank you for explanation. I had some trouble viewing the youtube videos.
     
  17. spnadmin

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    amarsanghera ji

    You are welcome. Some of the videos are low quality -- I think they are older film and not so compatible with forum software.
     
  18. Sinister

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  19. Sinister

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  20. pk70

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    My post is my own impression about Krishnamurti without showing any disrespect to the thinker. I found Eric Fromm' "the art of loving" more interesting than the views of Krishnamurti on love.


    Krishnamurti talks on mind and its capability to learn more if it is already filled with other knowledge
    With the known, is there any space in it to receive something that is of the unknown?”(Krishnamurti)
    How can he limit the mind? In learning, is it necessary to erase the stuff already in there to add some thing of unknown? From his words, it appears he is right but actually he is not. Mind only then defy the learning when “will to learn” is either gone or by being taken over by previous existing knowledge with high gravity of belief. Interestingly the mind in progression learns more unknown.

    In context of surrendering to God, Krishnamurti ji is bases “surrendering to the God” on hear say
    “The known is a creation of the mind because thought is the result of the known, of the past, and thought can only create what it knows; therefore what it knows is not the eternal, that is why when you surrender to the will of God, you are surrendering to your own projections, it may be gratifying, comforting but it is not the real..(Krishnamurti)”

    Obviously he based his idea on hear say on surrendering to will of God. Actually, surrendering to the will of the God is to take the world as it is. It is not a thought but a practical way out to seek harmony in contradictory situations. Every day, you surrender to the unknown power of the state, don’t you?, Actually you don’t know the power of the state unless you defy and face consequences. Who pursue to surrender to the will of God are not saying because they hear from others but they experienced the so called “perception” as a reality and found the mind stilled.
    “you are generous when it pays you, you are merciful when you see something in return..”(Krishnamurti)
    You see, one mind’s thought could be a terrible conclusion, examples are found that there are people are generous without even hoping for a name or thanks ( Bhagat Puran Singh..). I have witnessed mothers forgiving the killers of their sons and daughters, showing mercy without getting anything in return. As a matter of fact, many times the rationality projects irrational thoughts. Krishnamuti limits the capacities and power of mind in different situations. He is black or white on acts of mind. I can dissect a lot of paragraphs found in “The first and Last Freed” My last comment on his impractical solutions
    The moment you give a name to that which you call fear, you strengthen it,(Krishnamurti)
    We do not strengthen fears by naming it but by believing in it
    but if you can look at that feeling without terming it, you will see that it withers away.(Krishnamurti)
    As long as one believes in fear by supporting with consequences, it stays regardless you stop terming or naming it.
    Therefore if one would be completely free of fear it is essential to understand this whole process of terming, of projecting symbols, images, giving names to facts.(Krishnamurti)
    Let me give example, a seeker of the Lord thinks that death word used for end of breathing is nothing but a moment of uniting with the Origin. Throw hundred terms defining the fear and consequences of it on him, those all given terms will fail to scare him. Where Krishnamurti ji’s theory of terming fear is strengthens it? Actually it is all about believing in it.
    There can be freedom from fear only when there is self-knowledge, self knowledge is the beginning of wisdom, which is the ending of fear(Krishnamurti)
    Self knowledge comes with terms, only change occurs is awareness of the surroundings, that understanding gives new meaning to the term “fear”
    Note All quotes are taken from” The first and last freedom by Krishnamurti”
     
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