Judaism Jews And Sikhs: How Similar Can We Get?

[clarkejoey]

I just find it difficult to believe that they could last this long without some martial activity. They have fought in the recent past (i.e. establishing Israel). This also begs the controversial and knotty question of a homeland for people. Surely there must have been Jewish armies in the past

Sure there have been Jewish soldiers, armies, etc... i think kelly_kaur was saying that the religion has no martial philosohpy, which is true. They are famous for dying at worship; Greek armies in the 300's-200's BCE found that they could beat the Maccabaean's (the Jewish priest/king family of the day) armies if they attacked on the Sabbath, when no Jewish soldier could pick up a sword! (The Maccabaeans wised up)

Since the European Holocaust, a lot of israeli Jews have taken up an almost Sikh-like militarism, but it is completely secular, except insofar as Jewish faith and Jewish Independence overlap.

Would we like to discuss HOW and WHY they won/stole/inherited their homeland?

 

[dalsingh]

Since the European Holocaust, a lot of israeli Jews have taken up an almost Sikh-like militarism, but it is completely secular, except insofar as Jewish faith and Jewish Independence overlap.

Would we like to discuss HOW and WHY they won/stole/inherited their homeland?

Fire away. The floor is yours.

 

[clarkejoey]

We-ell... on the one hand is the support of the USA and it's large block of Jewish voters, and on the other is the dilatoriness (is that a word?) of the Palestinian Arabs of the 1940's, who seem to have expected the zionists to simply evaporate.

Zionists gave religious/cultural/political reasons for the reconquest:

• religious - the "Promised Land" of Jewish and Christian scripture;
• cultural - there were millions of unrepresented Jewish folk in the area;
• political - if they had a homeland, no Holocaust would happen again.

Sikhs should consider that last one.

There was plenty that was admirable and romantic about a couple thousand half-trained young soldiers beating up a huge army, but Israel has - in my opinion - gone a little bit nazi in their treatment of palestinians.

I am quite certain that if the nation looking for a home had been considered non-white, they would have been pushed into the sea and there would be no Israel today; i remain astonished that after the Sikhs' relatively polite request for autonomy in the Punjab got not the slightest encouragement from "Developed Countries", allowing Mrs Gandhi to do and say whatever she wanted, and that they continue to ignore the search for justice.

Or... maybe Sikhs have not pushed it sufficiently? I can't say. Anyone else?

 

[Archived_Member1]

They seem to be doing very well economically in England at least.

i think the economic issue is entirely seperate. Jews are stereotyped as being good at buisness or good with money, but there's some logical reasoning behind that. whether through choice, necessity, or "ghettoization", Jews have historically "stuck together" business wise. for example, only patronizing other Jewish shops and businesses. this helps to build a strong economic community. it's ironic that Euopeans have been forcing Jews to live in poor areas and basically treatign them as second class (ghettoization) for hundreds of years, but that very treatment is part of how they grew to be so strong economically. also historically many trades were jewish dominated because they were crafts which were passed down from father to son... trades which generated a lot of money like goldsmithing, jewlery making, watch making, etc. i think India also has communities who are famed for their "money sense" and if you look at their history they have also been involved in such trades.

the history of the Jewish people is not only a history of religion, but of an entire cultural and ethnic identity which was shaped by the people who have tried to destoy it.

also, the majority of Jewish people are NOT religious, they're Jewish by identity, by culture, but they don't follow the traditions or even hold the same beliefs anymore. this is something we as Sikhs should watch and learn from for i can see it happening to us if we're not careful.

 

[Astroboy]

Jews are the most economically successful group in American society, or, as Mr. Murray dubs them, "the overclass." Jewish family income is 72 percent more than the national average and even when minority groups are removed from the analysis, Jewish income is 34 percent more than that of Gentile white ethnic groups. (The author notes that Jewish families earn 50 percent more than "God-fearing, hard-working Irish-Americans.") Although Jews make up only three percent of the population, they account for approximately a fifth of the very rich, i.e. millionaires and above.

(Full article: Why are Jews so rich? - satiric book review Washington Monthly - Find Articles)

 

[drkhalsa]

i think India also has communities who are famed for their "money sense" and if you look at their history they have also been involved in such trades.

Yes there are many according to region they belong

1. Urban Sikhs
2. Bania community
3. Marwaaree community
4. Pa{censored}e

 

[Archived_Member1]

Jews are the most economically successful group in American society, or, as Mr. Murray dubs them, "the overclass." Jewish family income is 72 percent more than the national average and even when minority groups are removed from the analysis, Jewish income is 34 percent more than that of Gentile white ethnic groups. (The author notes that Jewish families earn 50 percent more than "God-fearing, hard-working Irish-Americans.") Although Jews make up only three percent of the population, they account for approximately a fifth of the very rich, i.e. millionaires and above.

(Full article: Why are Jews so rich? - satiric book review Washington Monthly - Find Articles)

interesting, i've read that south asians have the higest median income of any ethnic group in america... seems the stats are conflicting.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

kelly, jews as not listed as ethnic group.

 

[Archived_Member1]

kelly, jews as not listed as ethnic group.

actually, if you read the article Begum posted, they are.

"Jewish families headed by males with four or more years of college still earn 75 percent higher incomes than those of other ethnic groups,"




in most of the world, certainly in the US, being Jewish usually refers to an "ethnicity" in addition to a religion.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

intersting..i never knew it

 

[dalsingh]

In the UK Sikhs and Jews are considered to be an ethnic and religious community in legislation. I think both meet specific criteria to qualify for this. Yet another thing Jews and Sikhs share.

 

[dalsingh]

News : HCI London

Sikhs most successful religious group in UK - The Hindustan Times

Vijay Dutt

The Sikhs in Britain are now enjoying most rewards of their work ethic compared to any other religious group.

Eight out of 10 Sikhs are likely to own a house, considered the basic symbol of prosperity. Their success is a tribute to the hard work of the first generation and then the ever-growing economic success and educational achievement of subsequent generations.

The figure of 82 per cent home ownership among Sikhs compares to 70 per cent (seven out of 10) homeowners among the Christian majority. Sikhs are also, it has been found, as likely as Christians to hold a university degree.

A quarter of Hindus have a degree, while 16 per cent of Christians and Sikhs are educated to that level. The first ever breakdown of religious groups by the Government shows that Britain has proved most receptive to ambitions of migrants.

Hindus and Jews too are ahead of Christians in terms of home ownership. While 74 per cent Hindus own homes, 77 per cent of Jews are home owners, second only to Sikhs who are at top of the table with 82 per cent having their own homes.

Hindu men are second only to Jews among major religious groups as likely to hold managerial posts or be top professionals. Some 45 per cent of management roles, and one in 20 Hindu men is a doctor, 10 times the percentage of the Christian majority.


Homeowners (housing by religion):

Sikhs 82%

Jews 77%

Hindus 74%

Christians 70%

Religion not stated 63%

No religion 62%

Other religions 58%

Buddhists 54%

Muslims 52%

All people 68%

 

[kds1980]

^^

The money of sikh community is increasing but they are getting bankrupt in their spirituality.

 

[Archived_Member1]

^^

The money of sikh community is increasing but they are getting bankrupt in their spirituality.

we should be able to manage both...

Guru Hargobind Sahib said to Baba Budha ji:
"It is through thine intercession I obtained birth; and it is in fulfillment of thy blessing I wear two swords as emblems of spiritual and temporal authority. In the Guru's house religion and worldly enjoyment shall be combined - the caldron to supply the poor and needy and scimitar to smite oppressors."

-Macauliffe, M. A. 1893. The Sikh Religion: Its Gurus, Sacred Writings and Authors

 

[kds1980]

we should be able to manage both...

Guru Hargobind Sahib said to Baba Budha ji:
"It is through thine intercession I obtained birth; and it is in fulfillment of thy blessing I wear two swords as emblems of spiritual and temporal authority. In the Guru's house religion and worldly enjoyment shall be combined - the caldron to supply the poor and needy and scimitar to smite oppressors."

-Macauliffe, M. A. 1893. The Sikh Religion: Its Gurus, Sacred Writings and Authors

I agree with it but for majority of people its too difficuilt.

 

[dalsingh]

I agree with it but for majority of people its too difficuilt.

It is a problem. Many Sikhs are not raised on the basic tenants of their faith and have a poor understanding of their heritage. It will take time to reverse this.

 

[Astroboy]

Jews OR Sikhs - can somebody explain about the six-pointed star?

 

[dalsingh]

Jews OR Sikhs - can somebody explain about the six-pointed star?

Don't stress yourself. Many Sikhs in the west have a thing for cheap tinsel Christmas decorations in Gurdwaray. I think that is what you are seeing here.

 

[Astroboy]

Dal Singh Ji,

Thanks you for the explanation. I appreciate it.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Don't stress yourself. Many Sikhs in the west have a thing for cheap tinsel Christmas decorations in Gurdwaray. I think that is what you are seeing here.

yeah, what's the deal with all the cheap sparkly stuff, anyway?