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Is the Soul Our Inner Guru or God?

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Embers, Jul 31, 2012.

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  1. Embers

    Embers
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    Sat Sri Akal, friends

    Is our soul equal to God or A part of of God?
    Is it our guru and should it be meditated upon?

    Thank you.
     
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    If you mean the inner voice, I believe that is an essence of God, your inner Guru, the voice that always makes sense.

    Why would you wish to meditate on it? If I were to meet one of the Gurus, you would not be able to shut me up, I would wish to have discourse on every topic I could think of, as it so with my inner voice.

    Meditate on it lol, just try talking to it
     
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  4. Embers

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    Thanks Harry
    I mean literally God, rather than inner voice. I ask about guru because Waheguru is God and he is our Guru. Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

    I agree, I would have a good talk with God if I thought he would reply :D

    Meditating on it brings the soul to the surface, so to speak, one becomes merged with it. Instead of being caught up in worldly affairs it seems we can reside as the soul. I am wondering what others think :)
     
  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I talk to God all the time, and God replies, although its always the same answer, whatever the truth is, and then God shows me the truth like a shining path through my day, and says, just follow this path, and if I do not, God merely states, 'come back when you are ready for the truth, otherwise you are just passing time'

    Of course I have several voices, (24 at the last count), but only one of them has the essence of Creator, and only one speaks the truth. The rest lie.

    It is important to be caught up in worldy affairs, the trick is not to run one way or another, some get caught up and lose sight, and such can also be the way with residing in the soul, the key is balance and understanding, that allows you to live in the world whilst also doing some good in the world, rather than living in your soul and driving yourself mad.

    All the pleasures in life are open to a Sikh, provided they are enjoyed and gained as per Bani.Sikhism is not a 'live in the trees and eat seeds' religion, nor a 'lets mediate and leave everything to God' religion, it is a religion where you seek knowledge, wisdom, experience, and ultimately the ability to make a change, in the world you live in.

    My opinion only, I am sure others view different :)
     
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  6. Embers

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    I like your view, Harry, thank you for sharing it. :grinningsingh:
    I am not sure how you distinguish the shining path during your day?
     
  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Ambersji

    Yes, that is a hard one, the shining path is called Hukam, and there is a short way and long way to know what Hukam is. The short way is quite simple, just read and understand the SGGS from start to finish, and then practice it so it becomes a habit, soon, you will be living Bani, and will know straight away what is Hukam and what is not.

    I, myself, took the long way, this fundamentally involves spending 22 years following anything other than Hukam (its easier, its a bigger and more fun path), the trouble is, the damned consequences, anyhoo, after a while all the consequences fall down on you, and basically you realise that not following Hukam hurts, its not about pleasing some bearded old man in the sky, but living life content and happy, for the long term, rather than the short term, now when I say hurts, I mean, really hurts, failed marriages, bankruptcy, heart attacks, addictions, etc etc etc.

    So, I know what little I know because of the long path, and a good teacher it is!

    Save yourself some misery, take the short path
     
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  8. Embers

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    I am glad you mention Hukam, Harryji. My question would be how can we be proactive, creative and 'successful at work or study' whilst accepting Hukam? Is everything hukam?
     
  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    This is my opinion only, you must seek clarification from others more able than me

    My definition of Hukam is the golden path that Creator wishes you to follow. It is not fate, it is not definitive, your future lies in your own hands. Whatever decision you take will be either in Hukam or not. My belief is that if you can spend the majority, or even all of your time in Hukam, then you will live the life that Creator mapped out for you, you have the best chance of a happy productive and purposeful life. Sure, bad things can and will happen, but your connection to God, and willingness to follow the path of God, means you are best prepared for most problems.

    To be successful at work, be honest, work hard, stand up for yourself, protect and help the weak, be a rock for anyone round you, do not get involved in cheating or theft, everything should be in the level, everything should pass the litmus test, your heart sings true and shines when you show love to Creation, it cries and is black when you abuse Creation. Most live in the middle, neither singing nor crying, just a deathly warmness that is merely passing time. Those that live in the extremes know the truth, one path is to death, one to everlasting life

    Hukam is living as per Bani, or in my case, just doing none of things I used to :)
     
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  10. Embers

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    Thanks a lot, Harryji :)
     
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  11. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    Why does it Matter? I think the most important thing is to PHYSICALLY Carry out what is Prescribed as Good & Righteous ( First to Understand, Second to Internalize it, Heart, Body & Mind & then, To carry it out.) meditation & the Rest of the Stuff is the Link to God, which mainly Stems from our Gratitude. Be Grateful, & God will Take care of the Rest. He will lead you w/e way is Most condusive to your Growth, but growth often sucks, so you've been warned. Lol But it's also Awesome. So yea, attempt to Climb, against yourself, against your Physcial boundaries, & your Perception of what you can or cannot do. That, to me, is the Challenge of Life & I adore it. & when you get Caught in your Own Mistakes, Even then God will Pull you right back, & pretty much say, Kid, come right back. & that's what you do, you Attempt. Which is the Best anyone can do. You ATTEMPt to Live a Good life, you Attempt to Help, you Attempt to be of Service & Assitance to others & Society, but that Smetimes fails, & even then, you have smthing to go back to. Call it Faith, Call it Guru, or Just the Amalgamation of Several Energies, I am not Sure. But it is a Solace, a very Real Place (imo), a place to Leave all your Burdens, until you can carry each one & Truthfully, accomplish all you came here to Do in this Life, b/c Life is about Doing, not Contemplating endlessly. Even if your Pursuit is Internal, & Harry Ji hit the nail on the Head, w/ Acknowledging that Progress is 2-fold, you can't have One w/out the Other, you must Move frwrd, on Both Levels (Physical & Spiritual, the Second is strictly in the hands of your Guru or guide.

    **This comes from Someone having experienced Failures on Several Levels, & All I can tell you is to Focus on Doing, rather then Attempting to Decipher b/c our Own minds, our Energy is so Incomplete w/out God, & He Truly Leads all Progress, your Failures are you Own, but His success is his Own.
     
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    #10 Navdeep88, Aug 1, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  12. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Great posts and little that I may contribute!

    There is I believe a wonderful exercise or experiment one can do all by one self.

    Let your inner thoughts and outer actions become one without boundaries. A revelation occurs of limitless that we can be devoid of much that ails and cares begotten and a refreshing solace prevails. May be a moment, few minutes a day or so on but it is very different.

    I cannot sustain such a state but wonder if other have tried similar and have been more successful.

    Remember this is not about inaction but actions and thoughts in synch with the inner self and all as one.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  13. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Ambarsaria ji,

    I think I understand what you mean from the description, and this is quite unique, from what I gather.
    In my experience, it occurs at times without any effort and then you realise and feel very connected from deep within to all around.
    Maybe because it occurs without any effort is why these few moments are always very memorable.
    I'm not sure that if it is just a feeling of immense love and connection with creator/creation. But in all honesty, I never really thought about it until recently!!!

    However, I am quite sure that it is a very deep connection with the so called soul or whatever you may want to call it, and at the same time with everything existing around you!

    (the following is my attempt to put something quite difficult into words, I'm sorry i'm not very artistic in explaning)
    -In my experience, when you can for a few moments completely detach from the surroundings and focus on your within into this 'soul' if we call it that, it becomes as if it is kind of isolated and more at large then these memories and just going back to them becomes a little like re-living them again.-
    -It's difficult to really explain and I'm not sure that you may I understand what I was trying to say.-


    Just my contribution to this matter and issue.
     
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  14. Embers

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    Thank you all for the replies.

    Navdeep88ji, I certainly need to break my philosophical-bubble and interact more with the world around me. Sometimes I find it hard to adore life, so you have my respect there, I am not unhappy but I think if there was more seva or service to others, and less thinking it would be great.

    You suggestion, Ambarsariaji, of living the inner and out together, as one in our good actions, certainly appeals to me logically and emotionally. I will try to put this into action and lets see.

    I do understand you, Lukcysinghji, there is value in being able to connect internally too, I feel and that is something I wanted to explore in this thread. As my practice has progressed I feel that there is less ego and more of a constant love and awareness, which I neither claim as "me" nor feel cannot be my core self.
     
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  15. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    I have done slight tinkering with the answer. However, it shall be helpful.

    It is like this:

    God creates man, preserves it and goes behind the veil; it cannot be apprehended by our physical senses nor can be understood by intellect. Incomprehensibility of God head is most frequently expressed by two words Agam, beyond the reach of mind: and Agochar; beyond the reach of senses. .He is Beant, Infinite. If there were another like Him, then only we could understand Him, says Guru Arjan sahib in sukhmani.

    God is present in every man in the form of soul also called Atma. The soul, Atma is the form of Transcendent Being, the Super soul or Parbharam. ’ Like the Lord, the soul is neither young or old; neither subject to suffering nor subject to death and birth; neither does it vanish nor does it go anywhere. It is from the very beginning.

    ‘God in man is in the form of Naam, says Guru Arjan Sahib ji in sukhmani sahib, and ‘it resides in human body.

    God’s relation to man is thus twin:

    1. Relation of whole to a part –Super Soul to soul
    2. Revealer of Naam and the one to whom the naam is revealed or in whom the Naam resides.

    Man has the capacity to realize Naam through Guru’s Grace and on realization of Naam one is able to realize the form of soul, Atma, says Dr Singh (Metaphysics, music and mythology, 1958] The Gurmukhs train their minds to contemplate the Lord, the Supreme Soul. One who has realized the self understands the Lord.

    In that sense yes, Atma is part of God like a sea drop of ocean. It has all the elements of divinity that Lord has. But If we extend the logic that God cannot be sub divided, it cannot be said that part of God is present in man, the whole actuality, is there in man, says Rajinder kaur in her book.

    Our Ultimate Guru , there fore remains Akaal or the Super soul.
     
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  16. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    From what you say, I think you are progressing quite well.
    You see, I started this journey of first trying to find myself and then to find my faith some years ago and it never went anywhere as near as planned. Firstly, It took me more than years to to knock this 'ego' down.

    For me the easiest way was actually the hardest and this was to change my lifestyle around completely. But deep down, I knew that this sacrifice was the best in the long run.
    So now, I am no longer in the fast paced rat race and the ego has automatically diminshed from what it was.

    It is good that you can feel this on your journey of self discovery. I know that it is the correct way to be and be going.
    My only advice is don't get too attached to anything, always try to keep self made limitations. It's these attachments that can easily start running our lives and this is where we have to be careful.

    If a no good lowlife like me can learn further, although I made it very hard on myself, then we all can!!
    Wasting a few minutes or moments leads to days, then to wasting weeks, months and eventually years. It is all too easy to waste years and then a lifetime and sadly I nearly did.

    The treasure we all have that we can share is the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We should never ever underestimate it or the teachings started by Guru Nanak.
    Many people like my have wasted years to learn the hard way. In the end it may seem like an achievement but the sad thing is we learn that this lesson and teaching was always there in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji ALL ALONG!! -If ONLY- if only, we had gone there and paid attention to it in the first instance instead of making hundreds of mistakes and then spending many years learning through them!!

    My biggest regret is to not paying attention to the ''real'' sikhism teachings and philosophy before I started taking control of my very own life!
     
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  17. Embers

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    Thank you Taranjeet singh ji for a profound and useful reply.
    When I read the Sri Granth Sahib Ji the Naam is synonmous to the Name of the Lord, example below. What is the Naam if it dwells in us as the Lord, is it to be understood as something more than the recitation of His name?

    Page 98, Line 12
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪੀਐ ਤਿਤੁ ਤਰੀਐ ਗਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਵਿਰਲੀ ਜਾਤੀ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੬॥੧੩॥
    गुरमुखि नामु जपीऐ तितु तरीऐ गति नानक विरली जाती जीउ ॥४॥६॥१३॥
    Gurmukẖ nām japī▫ai ṯiṯ ṯarī▫ai gaṯ Nānak virlī jāṯī jī▫o. ||4||6||13||
    As Gurmukh, chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and you shall be carried across. O Nanak, rare are those who know this state! ||4||6||13||
    Guru Arjan Dev

    Thanks.
     
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  18. Embers

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    Luckysingh Ji, thank you for sharing your personal experience.
    I should take note of the warning you give :)
     
  19. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    I do agree, Sir, that there is a distinction between Naam and Name and one has to be careful while interpreting these two terms.

    Naam has been very much praised in the Granth. Two Ashtpadis of sukhmani sahib are devoted on the achievement of Naam. To me, it appears that it is the main topic of the Granth sahib and that is why sikhi is called the Naam Marg that encompasses the Bhakti, Gyan and Karma Marg.It is called ambrosia. A sweetest possible thing is less sweet that Naam. "If there is Naam I live , if not I die.' In Rag Bhairon Guru sahib repeats the word 'beautiful' to qualify Naam.

    Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful beautiful is thy Nam.Without it man lives the life of a snake , a crow, a filthy worm, a dog, a pig, a donkey[Gauri M-5] These are probably metaphors as the lives of those animals are with some vices.

    Naam stands to life just as life stands to body. A body is dead without life and life is dead without Naam.All activities of man are worthless without Naam and cause bondage and sufferings. An animal is much better than a man without Naam.Guru has counted many luxuries but has placed naam over all these luxuries and consequential pleasures. He does not denounce the pleasures of the world but without the link of Atma with its parent Infinite God they seem to be empty and do not give deeper satisfaction. Naam supplies the real content and the underlying pathos of every pleasure is removed and the enjoyment is shared by the whole self.Naam, he says, is not a philosophy nor a knowledge to be gained by the study of books. It does not come from without, rather it goes out from within." I have searched all the Shastras and Vedas, but Naam is no where to be found" [sukhmani]

    The mistake that Guru Nanak Ji discovered was that people took God either 'without man-outside in nature., or He was considered within man in literal sense. Guru taught that when 'within' of man comes into effective relation with 'without' of man, the naam is made manifest and the feeling of unity leads to realization of God in Pind and Brahmand- in man and universe.

    When we analyse the teachings of Guru to find out an answer to the 'definition of Naam' or a clear exposition of it , there is not much response to the query. It is my opinion.
    May be some realized soul or some other member can throw some better light on this aspect.
     
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    #18 Taranjeet singh, Aug 3, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  20. Amarpal

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    Dear Ambers Ji,

    Sat Siri Akaal,

    As I understand, what the 'Sat' had given us is Atman, what we overlay it with is 'Linga Sarira. The voices that rises within us comes from our deeper layers of the brain is in fact from these two sources - 'Linga Sarira' and the 'Atman'. That is why we get two advices from within us; the two voices normally oppose each other. When we turn worldly the coating of 'Linga Sarira' over 'Atman' becomes so thick that the voice of the former i.e. 'Atman' is fully blocked by this coating and we become Manmukh in real sense. We degenerate

    However by disciplining our senses with effort, stabilising our functioning of brain and losing our 'Í-ness' the 'Linga Sarira' starts dissolving; the coating of 'Atman' becomes thinner and thinner and finally it ceases to exist. At this stage of spiritual evolution the voice that comes from within becomes the pure one from 'Atman' alone; there is no second voice now and we become Gurmukh in real sense. We evolve

    As 'Atman' is given by 'Sat'' to us directly it is Puneet; we can say that the voice that comes from it is that of the 'Sat' - 'Satguru'.

    I some other post I will share my understanding, with the grace of the 'Sat', that 'Atman' and 'Parmatman' are not two but one and the same.

    With this I close the post.

    With love and respect for all

    Amarpal Singh
     
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  21. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Life just IS, we may use all kinds of expressions but it won't make any difference to how things work beyond our human understanding.

    One such understanding is :

    Just as the sun is a splinter of the galactic center,
    Just as earth is a splinter of the sun,
    so is all of life a splinter of earth and the five elements in it.

    Just as the fragrance comes forth a flower,
    Just as a rainbow is seen in the sky,
    so is Soul present in all that exists.
     
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