Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Hard Talk Is Sikhism declining?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Jasdeep118, Dec 15, 2015.

  1. Jasdeep118

    Jasdeep118 Canada
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    15
    This current generation, religon is decreasing ,but I am okay with it. We all have our own personal beliefs, but I am concerned about Sikhi. There are these fake groups that convert Sikhs to their cults or they just leave Sikhism. Is it true that Sikhism is declining in the young generation or no?
     
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Interfaith Religion In Sikhism Interfaith Dialogues Wednesday at 7:50 PM
    Hard Talk Is Sikhism A Organised 'religion' ? And If So Is That Antithetical To The Teaching Of Gurmat? Hard Talk Nov 27, 2016
    Hard Talk Miracles, Dukh Bhanjani Sahib Paath And Sikhism Hard Talk Jun 2, 2016
    As A Child, Public Marches Of Sikhism Made Me Uncomfortable. They Still Do . Why ? Whats The Logic Hard Talk Oct 16, 2016
    Mediumship And Sikhism Questions and Answers Aug 23, 2016

  3. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,509
    Likes Received:
    1,555
    real sikhs as in 'sikhs of the Guru' will be on the increase...this has to be the outcome of this age of darkness...i have a strong feeling that true sikhs are on the increase...

    by sikhs of the Guru, i mean, those who are actively serving, sharing and meditating on the naam within...those who have a burning desire to know the truth of life and truth of everything.

    if there are only a handful of these real sikhs then that is enough for me...there is hope for us all...

    what type of sikh are you?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Jasdeep118

    Jasdeep118 Canada
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    15
    What do you mean by true Sikh?
     
  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    His definition is going to be different from mine, what does anyone mean by true Sikh, by Sikhs of the Guru?

    I am not actively serving, sharing, or meditating on the naam within, nor do I have a burning desire to know the truth of life and everything.

    I help people and make them laugh, to me, that makes me a Sikh
     
  6. Jasdeep118

    Jasdeep118 Canada
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    15
    Wait Harry your a Sikh? It's been a very long time for me since I used this site. I believe in a god, go to gurdwara on Sunday and say, "thank you" to God. Something is bugging me is just with these clashes with theism and atheism. I'm okay with both, but it's just that these religious idiots make religion look like a joke. Without the Vatican Church, Christainity would of been better. Look at Richard Dawkins he is creating a new breed of anti-theists hating on religion call those fools for believing in a god. I am okay with theism and atheism.
     
  7. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    Indeed, extremism at any end of the spectrum (theistic or atheistic) is unpleasant. The middle path, finer than sharp blade, is the place to be.

    Can you describe what exactly is bugging you with the clashes between theism and atheism? Perhaps we can help you out.
     
  8. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    The sikh population is down from 1.9 % in 2001 to 1.7% in 2011 in Indian census,what bigger proof we need that sikhism is declining
     
  9. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    I've just had a quick look online but can't find any sources that measure the growth or decline of Sikhi in the diaspora. Sikhi may be declining in India, but is it growing in other areas? Then, globally, overall Sikhi may be steady, growing, or indeed declining.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Jasdeep118

    Jasdeep118 Canada
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    15
    The only thing that pisses me off. Is Atheists say when a child is born they are an, Atheist not a Theist. Yet the baby or fetus doesn't even know what Theism or Atheism is. Another issue is that, Atheists keep calling those who believe in a god morons or intellectually stupid.. Yet, the man who proposed the Big Bang Theory was a Catholic Priest. Theists tell Atheists that they are going to hell as they don't believe in a god. Another issue is, these religious idiots making religion look like a joke. Like ISIS or Wahhabism it makes Islam look like a joke. Same with those Chritsain wackos calling non Christains devils, and they make religion look like a joke. Then there is Richard Dawkins is spreading all this damn hate. I don't have any issues with Atheists, as my friend is one. But Richard Dawkins is creating a new type of anti-religous people. It makes me cringe when I go Reddit, Yahoo or Youtube and see Atheists or Theists acting like dumbasses. Man I hate this {censored word, do not repeat.}ing modern day. We are killing our damn planets, we hate everything and etc. Yeah, sorry for that rant. I am just really annoyed at this clash. P.S I really want to call Richard Dawkins a {censored word, do not repeat.}. He only bullies Abrahmic religions, what about Dharmic religions. Man he pisses me off. I understand that Creationism is torture and etc. But man, why does he have to bash religion.. He never critizes Sikhi, Hindiusm or Buddhism.
     
  11. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    I think, when atheists say a child is born an atheist, they mean that the child has no innate beliefs or religion. If a child is born and raised without religion or theism, most likely they would not develop such a strong faith. We can see this in those parts of the world with very secular populations; the people are not all that religious (outwardly, anyway).

    It irritates me too that a theist is automatically less intelligent than an atheist, to most atheists. I think this is because it doesn't matter how smart the theist actually is, the atheist believes that because the theist can accept\believe in\have faith in something that the atheist believes is crap, it automatically means there is something wrong with the way the theist thinks. Like, their thoughts can't be 100% coherent, because there is a loose wire in there that allows them to have a belief that is not "true" (according to an atheist).

    A few years ago I went through quite a strong atheist period. I read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, and it was apparent to me that he is not much better than an outspoken theist, as he uses the same technique of taking passages out of context to prove a point. I was very disappointed when Dawkins reduced himself to that, and in my eyes his credibility went out the window.

    But I suppose where Dawkins is concerned, we need to remember the environment he has been in for his life, raised in and surrounded by strong Christian theology. It is natural that he's developed a venom against is.

    My partner is an atheist and listens to a lot of atheist podcasts, so I get to hear all the arguments. My favourite, actually, is The Atheist Experience. It's pretty entertaining to listen to them argue. It can be challenging at times, though, when the atheists throw away all validity of feeling. I want to ask them why they act on feelings they have, such as love, yet for a spiritual person to act on their feeling of spirituality, it suddenly becomes invalid.

    Sikhs are panentheistic; it is much easier for an atheist to argue against monotheists because the monotheistic Gods are usually quite colourful characters whose followers have strong mythology around what their God says, and things their God has done. Sikhi doesn't have this mythological God-character, so it's harder to attack. Dawkins calls pantheism "sexed up atheist", and other atheists ask why pantheists/panentheists are so desperate to apply the word "God" to what is otherwise known as the "universe".

    At the same time, atheists have some measure of a point when it comes to advocating for a secular society. I wholeheartedly agree with them, and oftentimes they will say they don't really care what individuals believe, but the problem comes when they try to make other people believe it, or bring it into education and government, where it doesn't belong. And it is indeed a particular problem in America, where fundamentalist Christians do try to teach creationism to children in school, etc. I wouldn't like my child to be taught young earth creationism in science class, that's for sure. I don't want my child to have to chant the Lord's Prayer every day.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Jasdeep118

    Jasdeep118 Canada
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    15

    Thank you Ishna! You have the same beliefs as me, but wait. Your a Sikhi too or a Humanist. Just wondering, but anyway thank you so much Ishna. All of this ranting has disappeared.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Rajwinder

    Rajwinder United States
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    54
    So fortunately or unfortunately there is no "user manual" that comes with a child when born.on top of that I really doubt there was a checklist available at any time in past that says if you have these 10 things then you are a sikh or any other religion stamp. Probably at different time frames definition could have been diff .. atleast one good thing i see now is that this generation ( millennials ) is questioning diff aspects of sikihi .. so to me it will refine our philosophy in future and we may find some real good stuff about our religion rather then blindly follow what our parents told us to do about religion and they did the same in their time. Some of these factories where people were given these five things and told that u r sikh now probably will have less throughput i hope. so to me less we attach our self to physical aspects of things better it is. .. as physical things are time bound.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Where sikhi is is growing? A handful of converts does not mean that sikhi is growing , also outside India and in entire world the sikh population at very best is not more than 2 millions which is around 10% of total sikh population
     
  15. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    What is your source for 2 million? I will do some more research now and see what we can find. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    Sikhi in Australia:
    12,000 in 1996, 17,000 in 2001, 26,500 in 2006, 72,000 in 2011

    Sikhi in Canada:
    278,410 in 2001, 454,965 in 2011

    Uhoh, now I'm late for Gurdwara. Will have to look up more when I get back!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738

    If we take all legal and illegal Sikh immigrants it is going to be around 2 million.
     
  18. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    That's not a source :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    6,988
    Chaz Singh ji,

    Would you be kind enough to elaborate what is in bold?

    Thanks.
     
  20. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    6,988
    I have many atheist friends and when they are explained that Sikhi has no white bearded man in the clouds with an ipad, no Hell, no Heaven, no Reincarnation, no DEITY, then they all claim to be Sikhs.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    There are around 5 lakhs in UK
    5 lakhs in canada
    2.5-5 in USA
    1 Lakh in Malaysia
    now add 2 lakhs in Rest of world
    this put population around 16 lakhs
    Now add 5 lakhs illegal as there is no data illegal migrants this put around 2.1 million
     

Share This Page