Is It Secular To Not Believe In Reincarnation?

[Original]

Originalji posted this on another thread, I felt it deserved its own thread and title




Societies are changing. The likes of Harry are plenty. Believing and not believing is an individual's personal inclination and not a collective pattern of thought. Tenets which underpins Sikhism have an indefinite stay and are carved in stone. They are not per se, sought-worthy to be construed with modern day shades, but can nevertheless, be tailored made to advance one's spiritual ascent. However, to dilute their native originality with modern day ideology is to distort the beauty of Nanak's Nirankar.

What we are as individuals is decided by the particular society in which we live, and by the particular social group to which we belong. Much of our shaping during infancy and early youth is down to our "family" socialisation. In this initial stage of psychological and social development parents play a major role. In such setting we learn as much through observation and experience as we do through deliberate instruction and training. Although, our parents teach us not to speak with our mouths full, not to leave behind jhuti roti, etc, they unintentionally teach us a lot more besides. And, unless Sikh parents away from homeland Punjab consciously teach their children concepts of karm, dharm etc..children will not know. Is Harry one of them ?

Harry is a product of British Society and as such, is learning, questioning with an open mind of the secular Sikhi. I think there is lot of academic thought which navigates the wandering mind to that end. Perhaps we best look at Sikhism from a secular perspective to break- free if you like from the fetters of traditional trap.

Over 2 U

 

[Harry Haller]

Societies are changing. The likes of Harry are plenty. Believing and not believing is an individual's personal inclination and not a collective pattern of thought. Tenets which underpins Sikhism have an indefinite stay and are carved in stone. They are not per se, sought-worthy to be construed with modern day shades, but can nevertheless, be tailored made to advance one's spiritual ascent. However, to dilute their native originality with modern day ideology is to distort the beauty of Nanak's Nirankar.

I do not see myself as a secular Sikh, more a pragmatic one. I also have a firm belief that it is the native originality that has been distorted through history and by those who would have an agenda. There is no modern day ideology here, we are going back to basics, we are using our brains, let us use our brains to go over several given facets of Sikhism.

The Gurus had more than one wife
impossible, given the Sikh attitude to gender equality

The Gurus performed miracles
impossible, given the Sikh attitude to respecting the will of Creator

so in two fell swoops, we can do away with all the two and three wife theories, and most of the sakhis involving miracles. This is not modern day ideology, this is a respect for things as they were 500 years ago. This is not distortion, this is restoration. That is my opinion anyway.

What we are as individuals is decided by the particular society in which we live, and by the particular social group to which we belong. Much of our shaping during infancy and early youth is down to our "family" socialisation. In this initial stage of psychological and social development parents play a major role. In such setting we learn as much through observation and experience as we do through deliberate instruction and training. Although, our parents teach us not to speak with our mouths full, not to leave behind jhuti roti, etc, they unintentionally teach us a lot more besides. And, unless Sikh parents away from homeland Punjab consciously teach their children concepts of karm, dharm etc..children will not know. Is Harry one of them ?

My parents are traditional Sikhs, just like you in fact, dad wears a turban, and yes I was taught by them and my grandfather, who was a Gyani back home in Punjab. If anything it is the parents from homeland Punjab who teach their children the Vedicised version of Sikhism that, in my view, cause harm.

Harry is a product of British Society and as such, is learning, questioning with an open mind of the secular Sikhi. I think there is lot of academic thought which navigates the wandering mind to that end. Perhaps we best look at Sikhism from a secular perspective to break- free if you like from the fetters of traditional trap.

I spent my childhood in India as well as the UK, and found fitting in hard in both countries, I do not think such thinking is a product of British Society, more just a simple yearning for the truth. I also do not consider myself a secular Sikh, I consider myself searching for truth before the corruption, before the bad translations, before Sikhism became just like every other religion. If I was convinced that Sikhism in its present day state, reflected how it was supposed to be, I would be in the same camp as you.

but I am not, I believe Sikhism to be something beautiful, pure and very simple.

 

[chazSingh]

strange thread...

british society is changing...more and more people are following guru ji's instructions and waking up at amrit vela and seeking the real answers...putting sikhi to the test.

they are bearing the fruits of Simran...the greatest Seva as ordained by SGGS Ji.

people are finding it less and less of a need to partake in Forums to discuss opinions because they are tasting this overflowing stream of Amrit for themselves. This Forum is now a Ghost town because sikhs are driving the car and spending less time arguing about how it should be driven...they are just getting in and going with the flow and enjoying its thrills...

queue the drug analogy....

over and out my good freinds...I am leaving the Harry Ji Show...sorry...sikh philosophy forum

God Bless...

 

[Original]

strange thread...

british society is changing...more and more people are following guru ji's instructions and waking up at amrit vela and seeking the real answers...putting sikhi to the test.

they are bearing the fruits of Simran...the greatest Seva as ordained by SGGS Ji.

people are finding it less and less of a need to partake in Forums to discuss opinions because they are tasting this overflowing stream of Amrit for themselves. This Forum is now a Ghost town because sikhs are driving the car and spending less time arguing about how it should be driven...they are just getting in and going with the flow and enjoying its thrills...

queue the drug analogy....

over and out my good freinds...I am leaving the Harry Ji Show...sorry...sikh philosophy forum

God Bless...

Dearest Chaz

Many a time I've been tempted to write a book on "spiritual" Sikhism, simply because much is not known. Only a "limited edition" of the population understands the "real" Sikhi and the true message of SGGSJ. You are one of the few in my estimation of he who understands "Nanak's" spiritual wisdom. Our fellow participators at SPN have a right to interrogate, criticised, make light-hearted mockery and above all put Akal Purakh through varied interpretations to their understanding. The likes of you and me who stand testament to the founding principles of Sikhi have to persevere and remain steadfast to allow visitors and residents of SPN to test their claims and beliefs. We should welcome, because we know "what, where and who " sat is. Not to say, they don't, but to demonstrate Sikhi in it's true form, that is, amrit vela sacha nau vad I vichar karmi ava kapra nadir mokh dwar Nanak evian janiya sub apa sach ar.

Can't defect at a critical time like this - remain connected therefore and feel obliged to assist where and when needed for you have lot to offer.

Speak soon !

 

[Original]

there are no visitors left here anymore...other than a group that label everything as vedicism...and hijack every useful thread or topic.

yes..i have lots to share...but so did everyone that left unfortunately

i'll pop by from time to time...

god bless original ji

Chaz, the power of the "word" is beautiful - you n me will discuss Guru Ji Di Bani.

"....there is a perception, if you sit near the fire you'll feel warm, if you sit near the sea you'll feel cool and if you sit near Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji you'll feel elevated".

Look forward to exchange - until then -

Goodnight & Godbless

 

[Harry Haller]

This forum stands for complete inclusion of all, a place where we can debate and share, it has no official line.

If you have a problem with me personally, talk to me, failing that I cannot read minds

yet

I hope you stay Chazji, if it makes any difference, I pushed for you and Luckyji to be writers, because I actually want more input for the meditators, I have also stated and enforced several times where the potential for hijacking has been present. If you wish me to debate with you in a more gentle manner, I am happy to do so, but you are a very important member of this forum, and as much as I rib you, I have a huge respect for you. I would be more than happy to work with you to make this forum more meditation friendly, if you feel its not.

Love,

harry

back to topic please, if you wish further dialogue, pm me, or even start a new thread, 'why is this forum so against meditation'

 

[Original]

This forum stands for complete inclusion of all, a place where we can debate and share, it has no official line.

If you have a problem with me personally, talk to me, failing that I cannot read minds

yet

I hope you stay Chazji, if it makes any difference, I pushed for you and Luckyji to be writers, because I actually want more input for the meditators, I have also stated and enforced several times where the potential for hijacking has been present. If you wish me to debate with you in a more gentle manner, I am happy to do so, but you are a very important member of this forum, and as much as I rib you, I have a huge respect for you. I would be more than happy to work with you to make this forum more meditation friendly, if you feel its not.

Love,

harry

back to topic please, if you wish further dialogue, pm me, or even start a new thread, 'why is this forum so against meditation'

Harry you're beautiful ! Let me tell you why !

Sitting in front of the crystal ball and being able to see what was happening down below, Parvati [consort of God Shiva, Hinduism], protested -

"look at that nastik [atheist] hurling stones at your shivling [black pillar stone with 3 stripes, symbolising manlihood - phillus found in Mandirs]. Everyday he stands outside the Mandir and abuses you. Why can't he be like him [pointing at another worshipper at the Mandir who too was a regular visitor, and as part of his daily service would light a jot from home and carry it to the Mandir in offering] and believe in you ?" Parvati continued

" he does believe in me and is my true devotee" replied Shiva.
"What do you mean ?" asked Parvati
"I will tell you at the appropriate hour" replied Shiva

Anyway, as time passed on, the nastik and the believer both continued with their regular attendance, watched of course, by Parvati with keen interest for she was intrigued by Shiva's remarks regarding the same. As it happens, the weather one day turned out to be so bad, lightening-thunder, heavy rainfall and gusty winds got the devotee thinking, "should I, shouldn't I, should I.....attend Mandir, what if the jot blows-out, what if I get struck down by lightening, and so forth ?". The devotee to his better judgment was deterred from attending. The nastik like before turned up at the Mandir, hurled stones, swore to his hearts vacation and the usual sequence of events followed as if nothing had happened. Observed by both Shiva and Parvati, Shiva rose to his feet from his samadhi posture and spoke thus,

"...you see Parvati, the perceived devotee is a calculating bhagat, but the nastik a true devotee".

Parvati on hearing this rose to her feet and gave Shiva a big lip-smacker.

The moral of the tale is - commitment and consistency regulated by sharda [belief].

Guru Nanak too was like Harry, wasn't happy with the way things were in his own time. He broke away, didn't say God don't exist, to the contrary in fact, and found Ik On Kar.

If you believe in what I believe in, Waheguru, then you must accept that it is not by choice you're reading this but because Akal Purakh intended for you to read.

Many thanks and God bless