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Islam Is Islam Scientific?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by sikh Engineer, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. sikh Engineer

    sikh Engineer India
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    dear friends

    can any one tell me is islam is scientific or not ,bcoz every now and then muslims are busy to find resons to associate islam with science, as if islam sayings matches with science then they say look our islam is scientific. its gods own religion ???? what u peoeple say about this
     
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  3. bawaj

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    no religion is scientific. One can argue that some ideas in religion can be explained through science but that does not mean its scientific. Religion does not follow the rigor if experimentation instead it relies on divine revelation that may or may not be true. Dont be fooled by people who try to legitimize their beliefs by attaching science to it.
     
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  4. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Does science tell the Muslims to look only towards Mecca 5 times a day when praying?
     
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  5. BhagatSingh

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Religion is all about faith and blindfaith but science demands skepticism.


    If God ever wrote a book or made a religion, the book would reveal so many wonders of the world that we wouldn't be able to imagine!
    Quran contains greek science or science that was already known at the time. Even if it (or any other religious text) had modern science in it, it would not add to its validity a single bit.
     
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  6. spnadmin

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Bhagat ji

    While you make some very cogent arguments I do disagree in one way. In my opinion Sikhism discourages blind faith. Rather we are no longer blind once we receive Gur Prasaad.
     
  7. AusDesi

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    No religion is Science. If at anytime, any muslim credits allah for a miracle that is not Science.
     
  8. ameer_r2

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Some treat science as a religion that justifies a belief in atheism rather than a set of truths and principles that relate to life in this world. Science in itself cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. A religion, properly understood should not contradict science in ways that undermine its basic premises and goals.

    The link here is to the text of a book, "The Quran and Modern Science by Dr Maurice Bucaille, a medical doctor, who also wrote,” The Bible, the Quran and Science
    The Quran and Modern Science by Dr. Maurice Bucaille Edited by Dr. Bilal Philips
    Readers can judge for themselves regarding the truth of the author's claims. Religion is under attack by some scientists as a” delusion" which seems to be an unscientific conclusion.

    As a born American and born Muslim whose Austrian father converted in Calcutta in the 20's under British rule, I agree that science cannot prove the validity of any religion but religion should not contradict the fundamental principles of modern science and should even validate science. Of course, everything depends on interpretation of scripture and what science really says about facts and theories e.g. evolution.
    The Quran is not a book of science but like other religious texts is a guide to lead a spiritual and contented life in this world without harming the potential we have to develop as human beings and without doing injustice to others. A system of living should not only benefit the individual but society as a whole.
    These benefits should bring out the best and eliminate the worst faults in the individual as well as society by both preventing and curing whatever is harmful. The goal being to please our Creator and achieve everlasting happiness in the Hereafter.
    Today, religion is seen as causing violence and hatred and with being out of touch with modern needs and an obstacle to development. Of course, it is how the followers of a religion implement its principles for the good of mankind that we are being judged. Science may explain the mystery of creation but cannot adequately explain the purpose of our stay here on Earth.
    I visited the Golden Temple in Amritsar in 1956 and admired the devotion of the pilgrims. If we stress the essentials and what unites rather than a narrow religious nationalism we may be able to offer others an alternative to materialism and promote peace in the world.
     
  9. BhagatSingh

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Narayanjot Kaur ji
    Well, "<insert your religion here> discourages blind faith" is sort of becoming the trend with moderates of every religion.
    I don't think Sikhism says explicitly to not have blind faith. I mean you do have the occasional sakhis and passages where myths are ridiculed but other than that... A while ago, I would have agreed but recent trends in Sikh behaviour lead me to think that Sikhism's attack on blindfaith (if it does attack) is not a very big one.
    While we are at it what is the difference between blind faith and faith, anyway?

    PS aren't rehitnamas all based on blindfaith?
     
  10. BhagatSingh

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    Ameer ji
    Science can test a claims that you make about God. For example, if you say God heals people when you pray for them. Science can test this. and they have done MANY studies on this. The healing (people getting well) for the group that was prayed for, was the same amount as the group that wasn't prayed for.

    As for your link, yes we all have the ability to interpret verses out of context! :yes:
     
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  11. spnadmin

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Bhagat ji

    I would not base my opinion on sakhis which were written after the lives of the Gurus in many instances, nor on rehitnamas, many of which have been discredited because of their uncertain authorship, nor on the bromides of "moderate" among believers in the Sikh religion.

    My opinion is formed by systematic study of Sri Guru Granth Sahib on this exact topic of blind faith. Every time "blind" is mentioned by Guruji it is equated with a state of ignorance, misery and moral slavery. Every time "blind eyes" are opened, it is a signal that knowledge and spiritual freedom has been achieved Gur prasad.

    I know that many subscribe to "blind faith" as a noble condition. However, none of this comes from the the mouth of the Guru.
     
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  12. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Ameer ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    You write:

    Then who are the Kafirs?

    Why would the Creator need to be pleased. Isn't He omnipotent? Your statement indicates that He is not. Am I missing something here?

    What does everlasting happiness mean and what is Hereafter? Can you please elaborate these terms in a practical pragmatic manner?

    You as an American Muslim is aware of the 9-11 that was caused by the people of your faith. There is no denying in that. So,it is not that religion is seen as causing violence and hatred. People of your faith have done that, not only on 9-11 but many times after that, all around the globe. Last year it took place in Mumbai.

    So, isn't there a contradiction there?

    I totally agree with your above statement but you seem to be contradicting yourself again.

    If you desire unity which is a wonderful thing, the first thing to be done to make this division crumble is that the words like *****, nonbeliever should be erased from the Islamic and the Christian vocabulary,then only all can find the true connection in all, with all, for the sake of breeding goodness within so it can be shared with others, irrespective of their hue,creed or faith.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  13. BhagatSingh

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    beautiful!

    Let's focus in on the second paragraph.
    So blind faith is ignorant faith? But what is ignorance and what is faith?

    Faith = belief that is not based on proof [evidence?]: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
    Dictionary.com

    Ignorance is of course lack of knowledge.

    But to have faith you don't need knowledge. In fact, if you had the knowledge than it wouldn't be faith, right? It would just be acceptance of the knowledge. The knowledge of course, being based on evidence.
     
  14. spnadmin

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Bhagat ji

    I believe my point is that "blind faith" has nothing in common with Gurmat. Knowledge is helpful. There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom.
     
  15. Zahim Nasir

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    Is Islam scientific ?

    That's a pretty stupid question if you think about it, which I suspect many of you wouldn't have...

    If it is not for argument sake, does that make Sikhism, Hinduism or Buddhism automatically scientific ? Obviously not...I do suspect that some of you do look up to Islam in a curious way :wah: cool

    First of all religion is not a science, its a bit like saying is a box of matches a banana?
    Now I suspect some of you might agree with that, while some may still struggle with the albeit simple concept that science, religion, politics and culture are really different things folks, BUT there are some feeble witted people in all religions who profess that their religion is scientific, cuddly, genius, all-singing-all-dancing Santa Claus bla bla bla, thats.

    If your perception of Allah (SWT) or God as you call him, is confined to your religion, you might as well carry on asking dumb questions....ad infinitum...

    khodaa negahdor
     
  16. spnadmin

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    Zahim ji

    Please try to make your opinion known without using the word "dumb." I actually agree with you that the religion/science comparison seems strained and illogical. Your analogy that a box of matches is not a banana rings a bell with things I myself have written here. But there is no need for epithets. Thanks, Narayanjot Kaur.

    P/S I forgot to add this. The ongoing debate about science and Islam began a few years back, where on other threads, some Mulsim members themselves started discussions in which they made the claim that the Quran holds the scientific key to evolution. That is how it all began.
     
  17. AusDesi

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    Its been made popular by people like Zakir Naik who think all the science came out of the Quran.
     
  18. Randip Singh

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Religion you are correct is about faith, but Science is about scepticism? I would disagree.
     
  19. ameer_r2

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    Re: is islam scientific???

    Tejwant ji
    Please excuse long post. I may not have answered all your points to your satisfaction and went into more detail than necessary but you raised some important points that could not be answered as simply that you might have wanted as they are philosophical as well as practical. I am sure that many could do better than what I have tried to do in answering your legitimate questions and comments.

    You asked:
    Then who are the Kafirs?
    The Arabic word means to cover, hide and therefore to deny the truth.
    It is not just not accepting what you cannot or do not wish to accept but an attitude of holding on to beliefs for the sake of maintaining a status quo which does not produce anything beneficial for the individual or society. At the same time we are told to invite others to what we regard as beneficial for hem in a good way and not to ridicule their gods or (beliefs) to prevent them from responding in kind and later in the future regretting it after they have come around to voluntarily accepting it.
    Muslims themselves may commit an act of "kufr" by believing something or acting in a way that goes against the essential teachings that in effect takes them out of Islam and requiring renunciation and repentance.
    The natural opposite of a ***** is a believer which in Arabic is mu'min i.e. having "iman" or faith.
    A ***** is also one who acts against the message of Islam in a way that ridicules, insults the beliefs of Islam and demeans the character of the prophet rather than just not accepting when invited. When criticizing the doctrines it should be done in the spirit of mutual respect and attempting to clarify the advantages and disadvantages of alternative ways of believing and acting. Dialogue when done in a positive way clarifies the differences and can be helpful for those who may not fully understand or have had a chance to hear the other side presented without bias.
    Today, there is a campaign, particularly by Zionists and fundamentalist Christians especially in the US and Europe to demonize Islam as a violent religion rather than one that promotes peace and mutual respect. The growing number of Muslims in the US is a threat to Israel’s stranglehold of the congress and Christians feel that Islam is expanding and must be countered by any means. In Europe it also seen as a threat as a counter culture by establishing a pluralistic society as in the US as a mosaic rather than a “melting pot” which threatens their nationalist single identity associated with being called French or English. Integration is not enough for these racists as they want complete and total assimilation. No “rag heads” headscarves, burqas welcome here.
    The superiority of Western culture and civilization over all others is what is still being promoted simply because of a racist conceit that relegates others to an inferior position.
    The isolation that some, especially young immigrants feel in the UK that opens them to radicalization by those who use Islam to justify terrorism can be traced to this mentality.
    The difficulty of even getting an interview for a job in Europe because of a foreign name adds to this feeling of separation and discrimination having negative economic consequences.
    In India, secular by law, the Hindu identity is seen as the only legitimate one by extremists and efforts to convert Hindus, particular to Christianity, is seen as a threat to national unity.
    Religious identity as in Ireland, Lebanon, similar to the Sikh- Muslim divide and conflict in other countries that divide people not on belief but on tribalism has caused violence and death among similar peoples.
    The Serbian national church used religion to brand Muslims and Croats as a threat to a greater Serbia and allowed genocide to take place with impunity.
    Sadly, there are contradictions, and these should be addressed objectively.
    The Qur’an emphasizes the unity of mankind and the need to know one another but differences is belief like other differences can be accepted as diversity that enriches society or exploited for selfish reasons.
    A stable society is in the best interests of all but there will always be tensions that can be exacerbated by circumstances.
    Since the goal of Islam is to try to show a system of belief and life that will benefit all, it behooves Muslims to act in away that does not negate this purpose.
    The Qur2an stresses the self sufficiency of the Creator and not in need of anything but it is the creation which depends on Him in this world and who will enjoy the good pleasure of their Creator. Those who reject His existence and essential nature will suffer form this denial as they will be unable to relate to and bathe in His glory.
    Finally, Muslims, like the majority of those who hold beliefs which most have inherited by birth or have been brainwashed by hearing only one side of an issue, there will be people who take extreme positions which they feel are justified by their ideology. Islam and the Muslim world have been under threat not only from the time pf the Prophet but in the last 300 years. Western imperialism colonized mos of the Muslim world except for Turkey, although its effect was seen in the Turkish secular revolution initiated by Kemal Ataturk.
    Russiand and Chinese imperialism has made slaves out of Muslim areas and many Muslim nations have adopted anti-Islamic domestic policies and kept the masses under control by undemocratic means supported by the West out of fear of a united Muslim world.
    Islam needs to be clearly understood and practiced in the Muslim world before it can but understood by those who have no belief in its values.
    The competing nationalism,ethnic identities, religious labels, economic and political solutions that are being offered to the world supported by propaganda has brouht the world into instability and conflict.
    The masses despite the increase in education and communication potential are still unable to make their demands heard and acted upon in the world arena.
    It will take a great effort and sacrifice to realize our common need for a harmonious world order based on knowledge and wisdom and acting with justice for all.
     
  20. Zahim Nasir

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    Narayan,

    I would ask why would you then make a comparison with Islam to Science ?

    Why not religion & science, what's this the fixation with Islam?

    You won't find the answer on a bulletin board, just opinions from kids who need a job, and I doubt if you will find the answer in your Holy Book, because otherwise you wouldn't be asking folks on here now ?:inca:

    Bebakhshid :yes:
     
  21. spnadmin

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    Zahim Nasir ji

    You used the word "you" or "your" several times above. I am sure you are not asking me personally because I did not start this thread.

    The "fixation with Islam" your words is something that continues on the world wide web as far as I can tell. The fixation with religion versus science also continues on the world wide web. So it is not surprising to see a thread about Science and Islam here at SPN, because we are on the web.

    Here is some light that I can shed on the "fixation" from a different angle. There have been other forum members from the faith of Islam who began threads, or participated in threads, using a very consistent strategy. First to ask what seemed to be an honest question about Sikhism and a concept that seemed ambiguous to them. Second, followed up with the charge that Sikhs lack a scripture that says black and white how to understand a concept or follow a practice. Third step, they then launch into a days-long tirade about the weaknesses of the Sikh faith and Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Finally, a longer discourse is offered on the superiority of Islam as a religion. Some of us have come to recognize this pattern as "dawah" or an a deliberate program of proselytizing. They capitalize on the possibility that there may be individuals who are unsure about the Sikh faith -- for various reasons not limited to but including a lack of religious education. Once it is apparent that "dawah" is underway -- then what do you think happens? Sikhs online take their turn. They reply, and not in a gracious way, because they feel they are being insulted and they are correct. They are.

    So this may not be a fixation -- but it may rather be the result of a great deal of pain to see the Sikh religion and culture undermined. That is it from me for now.

    The other thing that happens is that I, or one of our moderators, come onto the thread and give warnings about proselytizing and undermining Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. And if that doesn't work, then the member is banned.
     
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