Is Hindu/Sikh A Valid Adherent?

[Luckysingh]

Is living just composed of material entities and componets that sustain and give life ?
How about spirituality?

I thought this was an important element of sikhism. Did the gurus not have extreme spiritual strengths, which made them Gurus ??

If we see all with physical scientific aspects and reasoning, then why do even need a religion ?

I think that understanding can be accomplished by believing in a spiritual sense and does NOT always require reasoning, be it theoritical or not.

Control/purify/cleansing/ having the word of the shabad with and living in truth with, in regards to our Minds (man jithai jagjeet) can only be obtained if spirituality exists along with other qualities. We can't condition our minds with physical, theoretically proven attributes.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

Is living just composed of material entities and componets that sustain and give life ?
How about spirituality?

I thought this was an important element of sikhism. Did the gurus not have extreme spiritual strengths, which made them Gurus ??

If we see all with physical scientific aspects and reasoning, then why do even need a religion ?

I think that understanding can be accomplished by believing in a spiritual sense and does NOT always require reasoning, be it theoritical or not.

Control/purify/cleansing/ having the word of the shabad with and living in truth with, in regards to our Minds (man jithai jagjeet) can only be obtained if spirituality exists along with other qualities. We can't condition our minds with physical, theoretically proven attributes.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

In my view Luckyji, the spirituality is a direct result of physical attributes, do the one first, the other will follow, live through Hukam, you will feel a spiritual link, chase spirituality, you could end up chasing for a long time and going round quite a few circles :sippingcoffeemunda:

 

[Archived_member14]

Ambarsaria ji,

I do have a few questions as to what one should do when people say wrong about our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and misdirect.

1. Do nothing and assume such will go away!
   • Best way to treat a barking dog is to ignore it

1. 
   
   
   I think it is not a matter of deciding to do something or not about it. It is the understanding that the only useful thing that can be done with any certainty is developing one's own understanding about what is good and right and what is not. Things won't go away and therefore one also understands that nothing can be done with regard to such things.
   
   And when the focus is on developing one's own mind, instead of then perceiving those people as enemies and comparing their activities to dogs barking, there'd perhaps be friendliness and compassion. And putting these two opposite attitudes side by side, one would get a sense of how burdensome the one and how freeing the other is, and perhaps also that it is much more effective to deal with others from kindness than anything else.
   
   

   [*]State your argument politely and hold strength of your expression to not forceful
   

   • Sometimes this goes against one's upbringing
   • Saying culturally back home, "Shoes on your feet don't listen to reason but need to be forced to fit" (Laton ke boot baton sey nahin mantey)

   
   Due to our own lack of understanding, patience and kindness we see no better course of action than the use of force in dealing with other's behavior. It takes time before we can grow in confidence in the power of good deeds. If you must use force (which btw I don't encourage), then perhaps it is better to bite one's own tongue and resist from expressing any aversion than try to make the other person shut up.
   
   If we can, of course we should express what we think is right but without ill will. But I think it is more important to realize that the focus should be to understand the truth and this is what needs to be conveyed to others. Not just saying this is right and that is wrong.
   
   

   [*]Sikhism is not a passive religion and culturally we are not passive and we do a bit of "you do, you get"
   

   • Why would you consider to be a bad thing between two people so acting or communicating!
     • I know such is less than ideal!

   • 
     
     Forget the culture; forget about how others or even you have reacted in the past. Understand and develop confidence in the power of good and thereby become independent.
     
     Since you mentioned Buddhism, this is what the Buddha said about anger:
     It is very easy to respond to anger with anger, but he who does so is worse than the one whose anger he is reacting to. Why, because knowing how unpleasant anger is, he goes on to react with anger towards that other person. On the other hand to react to anger with kindness and patience is akin to a battle hard-won.
     
     Patience towards a situation may come across as passive, but is in fact not. It is active, only it is directed towards not being agitated and reacting with anger. A person who only knows to deal with a situation by flexing his muscles will think that the patient person is cowardly. But really, it takes lots of courage not to react to a situation with attachment or aversion. The person who reacts with anger does so with the perception that his action will stop the other person from doing what he does. The patient person does not have any such expectation, yet he willingly faces the situation.
     
     

   [*]Buddhism was destroyed in India by Hinduism due to its passivity, why is it not a bad thing and why is it not important for Buddhism to flourish versus being destroyed
   

   • 
     
     First, I’d not think in such terms. It is more a worldly concern and being affected by the actions of other people.
     
     Second, this particular situation you point to is just a story, one thought about with attachment or aversion depending on who is doing it. The imperative therefore, is to understand this.
     
     Third, what determines the worth of Buddhism and whether it indeed still exists or not, is not the number of people who are exposed to and follow it, but the correct understanding of what is taught. This means that one person who understands correctly is more valuable than a million who misunderstand but who will do anything to protect the religion.
     
     Fourth, to be involved in protecting the religion from corruption is to put oneself in a position of being forever on the lookout. This encourages egocentricity which can’t be good at all.
     
     
     

     [*]I know at a personal level one may say, so what, but is this right in the overall context of human living?

   
   I'll need to understand the true value of the teachings before I can be qualified to say anything positive about it including that it is useful for other people. And if I wish anyone to gain something of value from the teachings, the best way to do so is by sharing directly what I understand. If on the other hand I am involved in 'protecting' the religion from corruption and miss the point of developing my own understanding, I am also sending out the wrong message to others.

 

[Archived_member14]

Harry ji,

In my view Luckyji, the spirituality is a direct result of physical attributes,

Could you explain what you mean by the above?

 

[Harry Haller]

Harry ji,





Could you explain what you mean by the above?

Of course ji, I only speak from personal experience here, but all my life I have been attempting to get in touch with my spiritual self, from Hesse, Plato, meditation, drugs, Monty Python, you name it, Ive tried it! Nothing worked, all wasted time, Between my good wife, and the SGGS, I realised that all I had to do was stop thinking about it, and just do, then the question, what to do, and the answer, do what it says in the book, starting with Mool Mantra, be fearless, truthful, in action and in thought, but first in action, and then once the habit started, the thoughts followed, the discipline became easier, the booze slowed down, the sex slowed down, as did the rich food, after a while, I started to feel a spiritual connection, that had nothing to do with meditation, or thinking and had everything to do with my actions, my actions brought me peace, contentment and connection

hope that helps

 

[BhagatSingh]

Fourth, to be involved in protecting the religion from corruption is to put oneself in a position of being forever on the lookout. This encourages egocentricity which can’t be good at all.

0 You put it well.

When energy is spent on looking out and crying "Wolf" then there is less energy available for actually understanding the spiritual tradition your in. But often times the person cannot help it. It is a world-view and something that cannot easily change. What would be the best way to get out of such a position?

 

[Ambarsaria]

0 You put it well. When energy is spent on looking out and crying "Wolf" then there is less energy available for actually understanding the spiritual tradition your in. But often times the person cannot help it. It is a world-view and something that cannot easily change. What would be the best way to get out of such a position?

BhagatSingh ji a corollary must follow your statement.

When some people spend so much energy to just respond to disturb the peace as to have redeeming value, they have little time left to learn or understand.

Because they become so wise in the art of evasion and deflection.

You got sucked in by a wrong crowd brother ji, unsuck yourself. I know there is a chemistry that more one tries to suggest action, less is likely to happen. So be it.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Archived_member14]

Harry ji,


You wrote:

hope that helps

It did, in the sense that I thought you meant something else, namely that mental phenomena is a product of material phenomena.

But allow me to comment on what you wrote and please don't mind that I'm quite critical.
Your original response to Lucky ji:

Quote:
In my view Luckyji, the spirituality is a direct result of physical attributes, do the one first, the other will follow, live through Hukam, you will feel a spiritual link, chase spirituality, you could end up chasing for a long time and going round quite a few circles

I do agree with the idea that one should not chase after goodness (your spirituality) and that it is more a product of actions aimed at something else. My reason however is that such aiming is motivated by self and desire for result and therefore can't be good.

Now on to what you wrote in your message to me.

Originally Posted by harry haller
In my view Luckyji, the spirituality is a direct result of physical attributes,

Could you explain what you mean by the above?

I think one mistake you did was to identify your actions as being “physical attribute”. What you are referring to are in fact mental actions, some perhaps expressed through the body. But mind is always the forerunner, so it was rather misleading to call all this, physical attribute.

Of course ji, I only speak from personal experience here, but all my life I have been attempting to get in touch with my spiritual self, from Hesse, Plato, meditation, drugs, Monty Python, you name it, Ive tried it! Nothing worked, all wasted time,

The past is gone; the only basis for right knowledge and understanding is “now”. Thinking back about the past and drawing from it any lesson is an instance of ignorance about what is now. It is thinking with aversion or attachment and therefore must involve perversion of perception. So why take it seriously.

Between my good wife, and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I realised that all I had to do was stop thinking about it,

Even this is past and gone, but the thinking now is rooted in what? If it is attachment, then it must be with a perversion of perception, therefore best not taken seriously. If you are reminded about a past good, such as an instance of giving, or morality, or kindness, this could in fact be thought about wholesomely, however even this is gone.

But is it a correct attitude to say, “stop thinking and just do”?

and just do, then the question, what to do, and the answer, do what it says in the book, starting with Mool Mantra, be fearless, truthful, in action and in thought, but first in action,

Did you not arrive at the conclusion through thinking/ reasoning? Even if someone were to follow like sheep, it must still involve some deliberating no? And the “doing”, it must not be just going through the motions but rather with an aim of achieving something, is it not? And what is this something else, is it some spiritual gain? If so, then what is the difference between this and any other course of action aimed at the same?

And given that it is in fact following some set course of action (since you even suggest it to others) , be it as put forward by someone else or by oneself, how is this not a case of following rules and rituals?

and then once the habit started, the thoughts followed, the discipline became easier,

This is what you are telling yourself now while thinking in retrospect. You make a connection between things based on what you presently give value to. And what you label as 'discipline', another person may simply admit as being change of habit. Some would even admit to the fact of attachment having simply changed objects.

the booze slowed down, the sex slowed down, as did the rich food,

The booze there is good reason, since this leads to moral misconduct and therefore could be motivated by even a minimal level of understanding. But even this should be understood as only temporary, since the tendency goes away only with enlightenment.

The other two on the other hand could well be motivated by attachment, conceit and wrong understanding. While there is still a long way to go before restraint from moral misconduct is developed to any degree, attachment to sense pleasures is reduced only by the highest level of wisdom, one which has seen through the nature of sense contacts and of sense desire.

Therefore if one thinks to reduce these instead of just developing more understanding about them, this must be due to wrong understanding with regard to their natures, and any subsequent course of action must be motivated by both attachment itself as well as conceit. The result is suppression of some kind and any idea about one's achievement must be delusory.

after a while, I started to feel a spiritual connection, that had nothing to do with meditation, or thinking and had everything to do with my actions, my actions brought me peace, contentment and connection

The only measure of progress is “now”. Is there more understanding about the nature of this moment, including any thinking that is going on? Is one aware of any attachment, conceit, aversion, feeling, sound, taste and so on that happen to be the object of consciousness at this very moment? If not, then one should at least acknowledge the ignorance, and this would be in fact a step in the right direction. Better this than think that one has made great progress when in fact what is being referred to point to the opposite direction.

 

[Archived_member14]

Bhagat ji,

You put it well.

When energy is spent on looking out and crying "Wolf" then there is less energy available for actually understanding the spiritual tradition your in. But often times the person cannot help it. It is a world-view and something that cannot easily change. What would be the best way to get out of such a position?

Thank you. But I was in fact deliberating on this point and trying to find another way to express myself.
One perception I get from reading some of the posts, is that the “enemy”, namely the Hindus, is the result of the writer's own imaginations. What engenders the idea 'Hindu' on reading something which one disagrees with if not some preconception and desire to express displeasure? The mind behaves like a honey ball catching all sort of stuff while rolling down the slope and who can be blamed for this other than the mind itself.

The one and only way to get out of this or any other situation is the development of understanding along with other good qualities such as kindness, giving, morality, truthfulness, patience, detachment and so on.
I hope this helps.

 

[Ambarsaria]

The one and only way to get out of this or any other situation is the development of understanding along with other good qualities such as kindness, giving, morality, truthfulness, patience, detachment and so on.
I hope this helps.

Confused brother ji I usually am quite receptive of your well thought out wisdom, comments and posts. In the above paragraph I disagree. Sikhism did not survive genocide attempts by Islam in the 1500-1700 by following the above mantra. They taught the attackers lessons that are still folklore in parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Unfortunately history repeats and next time in 21st and beyond centuries, it will not be Islam committing Sikhism genocide softly, culturally and politically but the so called other dominant religion of Humanity and peace in India. It is well underway unbeknown to many.

Sikhs are not a nation of let us love them and understand them as they bleed you to death. This may be true in Buddhism.

Regards.

 

[Archived_member14]

Ambarsaria ji,

Because they become so wise in the art of evasion and deflection.

And because you are responding to a post which was a response to mine, I wonder if this is referring to me. Please clarify.

You got sucked in by a wrong crowd brother ji, unsuck yourself. I know there is a chemistry that more one tries to suggest action, less is likely to happen. So be it.

Again I wonder if this is reference to something I wrote. If it is, I’d like to clarify.
First, actions are either mental, verbal or bodily, therefore there is no occasion when no action is taking place.
Second, what I consider fruitful are actions motivated by wisdom, non-attachment and non-aversion and this may be mental, verbal or physical.
Third, actions motivated by ignorance, attachment and aversion on the other hand can never lead to any good, except by way of making the other person realize how wrong these are.

This means that I wouldn't conclude that “the more one tries to suggest action, less is likely to happen”, but rather that only the right course of action leads to good results, and if it is wrong course of action, this will only lead to more wrong.

 

[BhagatSingh]

You see Amarbsaria ji, there was no genocide attempt by Islam but a few Afghani warriors (Ahmad Shah Abadli's lot) who had come to India to find resources to feed their families back in Afghanistan, and who simply happened to be Muslim. You see the zameen of Afghanistan was/is not as prosperous as that of Punjab. It did not provide enough produce. If you want to surive you have to get the resources from elsewhere. This is why desert nomadic cultures tend to plunder other lands. Look at the Vikings, who lived in an arctic desert. They plundered other more prosperous lands to feed their families.

Of course, Sikhs have to defend their lands to feed their families. They must defend themselves with this mantra.

development of understanding along with other good qualities such as kindness, giving, morality, truthfulness, patience, detachment and so on.

Just an example in a nutshell. Things are more complicated than they appear. A proper understanding comes from understanding the human condition.

 

[Ambarsaria]

You see Amarbsaria ji, there was no genocide attempt by Islam but a few Afghani warriors (Zakriya Khan's lot) who had come to India to find resources to feed their families back in Afghanistan, and who simply happened to be Muslim. You see the zameen of Afghanistan was/is not as prosperous as that of Punjab. It did not provide enough produce. If you want to surive you have to get the resources from elsewhere. This is why desert nomadic cultures tend to plunder other lands. Look at the Vikings, who lived in an arctic desert. They plundered other more prosperous lands to feed their families.

Of course, Sikhs have to defend their lands to feed their families. They must defend themselves with this mantra.
So you support the creation of Khalistan versus the cultural genocide prevelant inPunjab now! I am shocked!peacesign

Bhagat Singh ji I am sorry I cannot converse as for your blatant disregard in how things were. You find flimsiest of justifictions for everything bad that happened to Sikhs over the years.

The destruction of Punjab in the mid-sixties was not about bloody nomads. Genocide is genocide whether done by a bunch of nomads, Muslims, Sikhs, Germans or Jews. It is driven by quantity and result irerelevant of the justification. Options are limited. Stand up or get screwed. If you or I were with Mai Harinder Kaur ji in Delhi riots, you/I probably would not be posting and be lying in the loving arms of friendly Hindus with "Jai Bajrang Bali Chants".

Brother, Sikh world is not all about "Ras Malai" and "Kofte", there will come a time to make harder choices.

Sat sri Akal.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria ji,

And because you are responding to a post which was a response to mine, I wonder if this is referring to me. Please clarify.

Again I wonder if this is reference to something I wrote. If it is, I’d like to clarify.
First, actions are either mental, verbal or bodily, therefore there is no occasion when no action is taking place.
Second, what I consider fruitful are actions motivated by wisdom, non-attachment and non-aversion and this may be mental, verbal or physical.
Third, actions motivated by ignorance, attachment and aversion on the other hand can never lead to any good, except by way of making the other person realize how wrong these are.

This means that I wouldn't conclude that “the more one tries to suggest action, less is likely to happen”, but rather that only the right course of action leads to good results, and if it is wrong course of action, this will only lead to more wrong.

Sorry confused ji these were not pointed at you but my other brother in this dialog.

I forgot the greeting you told me that I could close my posts with. Can you please remind. I used to like doing so. I vaguely remember it to be "Makah" or something silimar sounding.


Thank you.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Ambarsaria ji,
Forgive me for seeing everyone's problems.

 

[Archived_member14]

Ambarsaria ji,

Originally Posted by Confused
The one and only way to get out of this or any other situation is the development of understanding along with other good qualities such as kindness, giving, morality, truthfulness, patience, detachment and so on.
I hope this helps.

Confused brother ji I usually am quite receptive of your well thought out wisdom, comments and posts. In the above paragraph I disagree. Sikhism did not survive genocide attempts by Islam in the 1500-1700 by following the above mantra. They taught the attackers lessons that are still folklore in parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Then your concern appears to be towards the preservation of Sikh as a culture, tradition, a particular group of people. It is not an attempt to uphold the good that is taught including those things which I pointed out in the above, namely giving, truthfulness, patience etc, and not to forget tolerance. And it appears to at the same time, you overlook what has been said about the wrongness in aversion, attachment and conceit.

Besides what you state about the possible fate of Sikhism had certain things not happened, is just imagination, apparently conditioned by attachment and fear. Wisdom does not indulge in such speculations, but understands that nothing can ever be predicted, not even what is going to happen one second from now.

Unfortunately history repeats and next time in 21st and beyond centuries, it will not be Islam committing Sikhism genocide softly, culturally and politically but the so called other dominant religion of Humanity and peace in India. It is well underway unbeknown to many.

If I may say so, I think you imagine too much and wrongly. All that is good points to the need to attend to the present moment rather than being lost in thought projections. With a mind that is inclined to the now, what would you like to encourage? Is it not to understand?

Sikhs are not a nation of let us love them and understand them as they bleed you to death. This may be true in Buddhism.

Well, I refer to Buddhism because what it states is true. If it was something which only applied to a particular group of people and within context, I would not have been attracted to it. And I believe that there is much that is taught in Sikhism which I consider good. And forgive me for saying this, I get the impression that you are overlooking these things and got your values all wrong.

 

[Archived_member14]

Ambarsaria ji,

Sorry confused ji these were not pointed at you but my other brother in this dialog.

I forgot the greeting you told me that I could close my posts with. Can you please remind. I used to like doing so. I vaguely remember it to be "Makah" or something silimar sounding.


Thank you.

It is Metta which means, goodwill, friendliness or kindness.
Sorry to have misunderstood your intent and thanks for clarifying.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Confused ji some comments in blue,

Then your concern appears to be towards the preservation of Sikh as a culture, tradition, a particular group of people. It is not an attempt to uphold the good that is taught including those things which I pointed out in the above, namely giving, truthfulness, patience etc, and not to forget tolerance.

<I>Confused ji, the concern is not about preserving per se but having the recognition and thankfulness in actions where people have sacrificed for you to see the ideals of Sikhism upheld which include all you mention.<?"urn:<img src=" /></I>

If I may say so, I think you imagine too much and wrongly. All that is good points to the need to attend to the present moment rather than being lost in thought projections. With a mind that is inclined to the now, what would you like to encourage? Is it not to understand?

<I>Confused ji I have seen a trend of destruction over many decades in multitudes of activities. It did not spring out today or yesterday. I am guilty of seeing continuity at a certain level of granularity in time. That is only thing that relates in the time continuum for me.</I>
<I></I>
<I>Confused ji what I would like to encourage is well being of all including their abilities to spiritually, socially and culturally flourish unabated.</I>

<I></I>
And I believe that there is much that is taught in Sikhism which I consider good. And forgive me for saying this, I get the impression that you are overlooking these things and got your values all wrong.


<!-- google_ad_section_end --><I>Confused ji I don’t disagree. We have an issue of aggregated aggression and ignorance by a vastly larger majority un-accustomed to compromise. They waited for their time and the stupid Sikhs got tricked in 1947. At the current pace it is more or less game over for Sikhism in Punjab within the next fifty years. OK I imagine too much as you will say, but it is very logical and has high probability of happening. It is bothersome.</I>

Metta

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veero To be adherent has little value ,but to have a love for adherence is what you need,and from that comes adhesion.

 

[Harry Haller]

Confusedji

Many thanks your most enlightened reply.

I do agree with the idea that one should not chase after goodness (your spirituality) and that it is more a product of actions aimed at something else. My reason however is that such aiming is motivated by self and desire for result and therefore can't be good. Agreed!

I think one mistake you did was to identify your actions as being “physical attribute”. What you are referring to are in fact mental actions, some perhaps expressed through the body. But mind is always the forerunner, so it was rather misleading to call all this, physical attribute.

I disagree, and I will not quote bani, or argue with you, I will relate personal experience, which is all I have. I am an insomniac, I have real trouble sleeping, when I cannot sleep, I tend to nudge my wife, and as she realises how bad my insomnia is, and to use a french expression, soon I am in la petite mort. Lately, and including last night, I lay awake for hours, I decided to have a bit more respect for my wife, and the act of love, and ended up on my laptop instead reading through this forum. Now I have been doing this for 10 days now, it started with discipline, and was hard, became a habit, and slightly easier, and now I would not dream of waking my wife for this sole reason, the physical action has managed to bypass the mental action, and has in fact educated and trained the mental action to do something else.

The past is gone; the only basis for right knowledge and understanding is “now”. Thinking back about the past and drawing from it any lesson is an instance of ignorance about what is now. It is thinking with aversion or attachment and therefore must involve perversion of perception. So why take it seriously.



I absolutely disagree with this, and again I will tell you why. I am blessed that I do not look at other women, I do not think about other women, I do not fantasise about other women. I put my hand on my heart and tell you that if a harem of sexy women descended on me, I would not be able to physically perform. Why? because in my youth I indulged in every scenario and fantasy that occurred to me, I have no fantasies left, all the things that I might find myself wishing for, I have not only done, but done to excess, so my past is absolutely important to me, it is my past that has led me to this point where I am today. Hesse, as I have said before, postulated that there were only two ways to enlightenment, through God, and through the flesh, I believe he was correct..


Even this is past and gone, but the thinking now is rooted in what? If it is attachment, then it must be with a perversion of perception, therefore best not taken seriously. If you are reminded about a past good, such as an instance of giving, or morality, or kindness, this could in fact be thought about wholesomely, however even this is gone.


No, it is the opposite, I am constantly reminded about a past bad, my time in prison, my time as a bankrupt, my time addicted to gambling, my time addicted to drugs/alcohol, women, the lies, the deceit, the shame, lying on a hospital bed facing death from 5 blocked arteries, I wake up every morning and remind myself of those times, and then I look at my wife, my dogs, my simple life, my 1.3L rusty 20 year old Ford, and my eyes fill with tears that all I ever needed was love of Creator and love of Creation and to be able to follow Hukam, and I am so so grateful that finally my time came and I was ready for it, and still alive to be able to enjoy it. I know the pit of despair, I know hell, you never forget it, you should never forget it, in my opinion. There is much to be learnt from it.

Did you not arrive at the conclusion through thinking/ reasoning? Even if someone were to follow like sheep, it must still involve some deliberating no? And the “doing”, it must not be just going through the motions but rather with an aim of achieving something, is it not? And what is this something else, is it some spiritual gain? If so, then what is the difference between this and any other course of action aimed at the same?

Touch a flame, you get burnt, touch it often enough, you get burnt a lot, I am not an educated man, nor am I an intelligent man, all I have is the knowledge that I know all the things that can burn, there was never any rational thought, only the desire for more pleasure, which has now been replaced by the desire for more peace. The difference is that the burning has caused an automatic response, it requires no thinking


And given that it is in fact following some set course of action (since you even suggest it to others) , be it as put forward by someone else or by oneself, how is this not a case of following rules and rituals?


When your thoughts are nothing but a cesspit, but you know in your heart what is right and wrong, don't think, just do what you think is right, and habit will take care of everything else., if someone had given me this advice 20 years ago, maybe I would not have put myself through so much, and my dear parents for that, who I would add never gave up on me.My problem is that I translated thought into action with little consideration to the consequences.

This is what you are telling yourself now while thinking in retrospect. You make a connection between things based on what you presently give value to. And what you label as 'discipline', another person may simply admit as being change of habit. Some would even admit to the fact of attachment having simply changed objects.

You are absolutely correct, however I would see the above as an improvement, I am now attached to Creator, it is the last and ultimate addiction.

The other two on the other hand could well be motivated by attachment, conceit and wrong understanding. While there is still a long way to go before restraint from moral misconduct is developed to any degree, attachment to sense pleasures is reduced only by the highest level of wisdom, one which has seen through the nature of sense contacts and of sense desire.


As I have stated, I am not a clever man, I am happy that my current state is nothing to do with wisdom, that would be the ultimate answer, but I have not the time to understand, and my understanding needs to be focused on a bigger picture, habit will do for the moment, but again, I concede your point as correct

Therefore if one thinks to reduce these instead of just developing more understanding about them, this must be due to wrong understanding with regard to their natures, and any subsequent course of action must be motivated by both attachment itself as well as conceit. The result is suppression of some kind and any idea about one's achievement must be delusory.

Again, correct, I wish I had your intelligence and vision, but in the absence of both, yes, I have to play games with myself to reach the required level of peace and contentment, it is not ideal, but it works for me.

The only measure of progress is “now”. Is there more understanding about the nature of this moment, including any thinking that is going on? Is one aware of any attachment, conceit, aversion, feeling, sound, taste and so on that happen to be the object of consciousness at this very moment? If not, then one should at least acknowledge the ignorance, and this would be in fact a step in the right direction. Better this than think that one has made great progress when in fact what is being referred to point to the opposite direction.

Using my methods, I have rid myself of every addiction I have ever suffered, that is not to say I abstain, I drink, I enjoy good food, I sometimes gamble, rarely, I enjoy lustful moments with my wife, but all in moderation, the last addiction was lust, which I believe I am well on the way to taming, all my addiction is now firmly pointing at Creator, understanding of Creator, the message of Sikhism, the history, the philosophy, it is hopefully my last addiction, I hope I stay addicted, this is one addiction I do not wish to tame, I do not feel I have made great progress, I have little understanding, and a lot of ignorance, but I am slowly finding myself at peace, it is a nice feeling

hope that helps